Understanding The Sierra Club

[Bfgrn]

Only one chopstick in the chowmein,....



Here, let me help you:

Marxism, Nazism, Progressivism, Liberalism, socialism.....all fruits of the same collectivist tree.

And you feel the heat, don't you?





The opposite view is conservatism, classical liberalism, i.e.. the founders.

...based on individualism, free markets, and limited constitutional government.




Is that a sign in your ear saying "Space for Rent"?

Herein lies your problem

While not all conservatives are authoritarians; all highly authoritarian personalities are political conservatives.
Robert Altmeyer - The Authoritarians

"Herein lies your problem."

Must you continually prove that you are among the least perceptive of posters?

Really?


Point: I have no problems.....

I know I'm not perfect....but so darn close it's scary.

Your perception would be rated as 'dense'. You accuse liberals of totalitarianism and then tell us you don't trust We, the People to vote and make decisions.

Well 'babe', that leaves us with ...?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Herein lies your problem

While not all conservatives are authoritarians; all highly authoritarian personalities are political conservatives.
Robert Altmeyer - The Authoritarians

"Herein lies your problem."

Must you continually prove that you are among the least perceptive of posters?

Really?


Point: I have no problems.....

I know I'm not perfect....but so darn close it's scary.

Your perception would be rated as 'dense'. You accuse liberals of totalitarianism and then tell us you don't trust We, the People to vote and make decisions.

Well 'babe', that leaves us with ...?

"...then tell us you don't trust We, the People to vote and make decisions."


The following may be too nuanced for you....but give it your best shot:


True or not true: both the main stream media and the government school system are wholly owned subsidiaries of the Liberal/Progressive/DeathPanelDemocrats?


True?

Correct.



Do you believe that advertising is efficacious?


Good.



Now put the two together.




The proof is that in debate, the Right wins because history has shown their ideas to be better. Liberal/Progressive/DeathPanelDemocrats know this....and that is why there is the constant attempt to shut down opposing voices.
Case in point, Obama's IRS preventing the formation of conservative groups after his 2010 defeat.

 

[Bfgrn]

"Herein lies your problem."

Must you continually prove that you are among the least perceptive of posters?

Really?


Point: I have no problems.....

I know I'm not perfect....but so darn close it's scary.

Your perception would be rated as 'dense'. You accuse liberals of totalitarianism and then tell us you don't trust We, the People to vote and make decisions.

Well 'babe', that leaves us with ...?

"...then tell us you don't trust We, the People to vote and make decisions."


The following may be too nuanced for you....but give it your best shot:


True or not true: both the main stream media and the government school system are wholly owned subsidiaries of the Liberal/Progressive/DeathPanelDemocrats?


True?

Correct.



Do you believe that advertising is efficacious?


Good.



Now put the two together.




The proof is that in debate, the Right wins because history has shown their ideas to be better. Liberal/Progressive/DeathPanelDemocrats know this....and that is why there is the constant attempt to shut down opposing voices.
Case in point, Obama's IRS preventing the formation of conservative groups after his 2010 defeat.

WOW, you are the master of deflection, obfuscation and ignorance. The FACTS from your own posts on this very thread...you don't trust We, the People to vote and decide for themselves...in your opinion they need a dictum...a dictum is as far from democratic as you can get, it is totalitarian which YOU embraced...

DeathPanelDemocrats

PolitiFact's Lie of the Year: 'Death panels'

PolitiFact | PolitiFact's Lie of the Year: 'Death panels'

It's not 'Death Panels'...it's individual rights

Promoting advanced directives puts decisions in proper hands

It’s hard to imagine how a compassionate, family-friendly measure — a measure that ultimately respects individual rights — could be twisted so grossly into the erroneous phrase “death panels.”

But, prepare yourself for more lies and more nonsense, because President Barack Obama has decided to do the right thing — and his critics already have resorted to fear-mongering and name-calling.

The concept of advanced directives was pioneered in La Crosse, thanks to our two first-class health care institutions.

It’s a simple concept: An individual, with the help of family, should have the ultimate say in the type of end-of-life care the individual receives. The best way to do that is through a careful consultation, with family and physician, before there is a health crisis — while the individual is still capable of having a rational voice in the decision.

Too often, those decisions are made when it’s too late for the individual to make the decisions. Instead, grieving family members are left to make the decision — and at times it’s nothing more than a guess.

Would the individual want extraordinary measures taken when the end is near? Why wouldn’t we trust the individual — in advance and when thinking clearly — to make that decision?

For those who crusade for the rights of the individual, here’s the question: Why are you so opposed to the individual being able to set down on paper, with help from family and physician, the standards and wishes for end-of-life care?

More

La Crosse Wisconsin Has Highest Rate Of Living Wills, Lowest Cost Of Care

Nearly all adults who die in La Crosse, 96 percent of them, die with a completed advance directive.

La Crosse health care systems offer a model of efficiency

Medicare spent 30% less on average for each beneficiary in the La Crosse area than the national average in 2006, the most recent year for which data is available, according to the Dartmouth Atlas of Health Care.

It spent 64.5% less than in Miami and 61% less than in McAllen, Texas, the two most costly areas. And it spent 23% less than in the Milwaukee area

 

[PoliticalChic]

Your perception would be rated as 'dense'. You accuse liberals of totalitarianism and then tell us you don't trust We, the People to vote and make decisions.

Well 'babe', that leaves us with ...?

"...then tell us you don't trust We, the People to vote and make decisions."


The following may be too nuanced for you....but give it your best shot:


True or not true: both the main stream media and the government school system are wholly owned subsidiaries of the Liberal/Progressive/DeathPanelDemocrats?


True?

Correct.



Do you believe that advertising is efficacious?


Good.



Now put the two together.




The proof is that in debate, the Right wins because history has shown their ideas to be better. Liberal/Progressive/DeathPanelDemocrats know this....and that is why there is the constant attempt to shut down opposing voices.
Case in point, Obama's IRS preventing the formation of conservative groups after his 2010 defeat.

WOW, you are the master of deflection, obfuscation and ignorance. The FACTS from your own posts on this very thread...you don't trust We, the People to vote and decide for themselves...in your opinion they need a dictum...a dictum is as far from democratic as you can get, it is totalitarian which YOU embraced...

DeathPanelDemocrats

PolitiFact's Lie of the Year: 'Death panels'

PolitiFact | PolitiFact's Lie of the Year: 'Death panels'

It's not 'Death Panels'...it's individual rights

Promoting advanced directives puts decisions in proper hands

It’s hard to imagine how a compassionate, family-friendly measure — a measure that ultimately respects individual rights — could be twisted so grossly into the erroneous phrase “death panels.”

But, prepare yourself for more lies and more nonsense, because President Barack Obama has decided to do the right thing — and his critics already have resorted to fear-mongering and name-calling.

The concept of advanced directives was pioneered in La Crosse, thanks to our two first-class health care institutions.

It’s a simple concept: An individual, with the help of family, should have the ultimate say in the type of end-of-life care the individual receives. The best way to do that is through a careful consultation, with family and physician, before there is a health crisis — while the individual is still capable of having a rational voice in the decision.

Too often, those decisions are made when it’s too late for the individual to make the decisions. Instead, grieving family members are left to make the decision — and at times it’s nothing more than a guess.

Would the individual want extraordinary measures taken when the end is near? Why wouldn’t we trust the individual — in advance and when thinking clearly — to make that decision?

For those who crusade for the rights of the individual, here’s the question: Why are you so opposed to the individual being able to set down on paper, with help from family and physician, the standards and wishes for end-of-life care?

More

La Crosse Wisconsin Has Highest Rate Of Living Wills, Lowest Cost Of Care

Nearly all adults who die in La Crosse, 96 percent of them, die with a completed advance directive.

La Crosse health care systems offer a model of efficiency

Medicare spent 30% less on average for each beneficiary in the La Crosse area than the national average in 2006, the most recent year for which data is available, according to the Dartmouth Atlas of Health Care.

It spent 64.5% less than in Miami and 61% less than in McAllen, Texas, the two most costly areas. And it spent 23% less than in the Milwaukee area

"Well, maybe not death panels, exactly, .....elderly Americans are not entitled to every conceivable medical procedure or pharmaceutical."
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/17/opinion/health-care-reform-beyond-obamacare.html?_r=0

 

[Bfgrn]

"...then tell us you don't trust We, the People to vote and make decisions."


The following may be too nuanced for you....but give it your best shot:


True or not true: both the main stream media and the government school system are wholly owned subsidiaries of the Liberal/Progressive/DeathPanelDemocrats?


True?

Correct.



Do you believe that advertising is efficacious?


Good.



Now put the two together.




The proof is that in debate, the Right wins because history has shown their ideas to be better. Liberal/Progressive/DeathPanelDemocrats know this....and that is why there is the constant attempt to shut down opposing voices.
Case in point, Obama's IRS preventing the formation of conservative groups after his 2010 defeat.

WOW, you are the master of deflection, obfuscation and ignorance. The FACTS from your own posts on this very thread...you don't trust We, the People to vote and decide for themselves...in your opinion they need a dictum...a dictum is as far from democratic as you can get, it is totalitarian which YOU embraced...

DeathPanelDemocrats

PolitiFact's Lie of the Year: 'Death panels'

PolitiFact | PolitiFact's Lie of the Year: 'Death panels'

It's not 'Death Panels'...it's individual rights

Promoting advanced directives puts decisions in proper hands

It’s hard to imagine how a compassionate, family-friendly measure — a measure that ultimately respects individual rights — could be twisted so grossly into the erroneous phrase “death panels.”

But, prepare yourself for more lies and more nonsense, because President Barack Obama has decided to do the right thing — and his critics already have resorted to fear-mongering and name-calling.

The concept of advanced directives was pioneered in La Crosse, thanks to our two first-class health care institutions.

It’s a simple concept: An individual, with the help of family, should have the ultimate say in the type of end-of-life care the individual receives. The best way to do that is through a careful consultation, with family and physician, before there is a health crisis — while the individual is still capable of having a rational voice in the decision.

Too often, those decisions are made when it’s too late for the individual to make the decisions. Instead, grieving family members are left to make the decision — and at times it’s nothing more than a guess.

Would the individual want extraordinary measures taken when the end is near? Why wouldn’t we trust the individual — in advance and when thinking clearly — to make that decision?

For those who crusade for the rights of the individual, here’s the question: Why are you so opposed to the individual being able to set down on paper, with help from family and physician, the standards and wishes for end-of-life care?

More

La Crosse Wisconsin Has Highest Rate Of Living Wills, Lowest Cost Of Care

Nearly all adults who die in La Crosse, 96 percent of them, die with a completed advance directive.

La Crosse health care systems offer a model of efficiency

Medicare spent 30% less on average for each beneficiary in the La Crosse area than the national average in 2006, the most recent year for which data is available, according to the Dartmouth Atlas of Health Care.

It spent 64.5% less than in Miami and 61% less than in McAllen, Texas, the two most costly areas. And it spent 23% less than in the Milwaukee area

"Well, maybe not death panels, exactly, .....elderly Americans are not entitled to every conceivable medical procedure or pharmaceutical."
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/17/opinion/health-care-reform-beyond-obamacare.html?_r=0

Did you READ the article you posted? It would be nice to have a mature, adult conversation about this topic. Too bad you are incapable of mature, adult conversation.

The big money in Medicare is not to be found in Mr. Ryan’s competition or Mr. Obama’s innovation, but in reducing the cost of treating people in the last year of life, which consumes more than a quarter of the program’s budget.

No one wants to lose an aging parent. And with price out of the equation, it’s natural for patients and their families to try every treatment, regardless of expense or efficacy. But that imposes an enormous societal cost that few other nations have been willing to bear.

THAT is why advanced directives, a compassionate, family-friendly measure — a measure that ultimately respects individual rights — should have NEVER been twisted so grossly into the erroneous phrase “death panels.”