Zone1 Unbeliever: You Are Responsible

[Care4all]

By your rendering, no one is a Christian. Not one.

Because there is not one person, even a committed Christian, who could live up to Christ's teachings perfectly.

So I guess Christ died for nothing, right? By your rendering.

It isn't my rendering....it is Gospel, Jesus's words.

Yes, we all fall short of the glory of God! I don't think that is being discounted in Christ's judgement of whether you/we truly believe in Him or not or try to follow Christ's loving and forgiving heart....

 

[theHawk]

And you are just quoting the people who wrote the bible.

You cannot prove that any gods exist you are just believing what you have been told. Until some god reveals himself to the world and I actually see it I have no reason to believe the gods people worship exist.

Gods might exist but they might not. And if they do exist they really don't give a shit about us mere mortals.

And not believing in religions is not animosity it is actually my exercise of my own will

Ah, the old “God must show himself to me!” in order for you to believe.

Here’s the thing, God did reveal himself to man, right from the beginning. And yet man still turned his back on God.

Despite this, God still wanted to save humanity, and promised a redeemer.

When Moses led the Hebrews out of Egypt, showing them the power of God first hand, they still turned on him. They still built a false idol to worship despite seeing that God existed.

This happens over and over throughout the history of the Israelites. They turn away from God, despite having him there in the tabernacle or temple.

So God destroyed the stone temple and gave us a new one, along with the New Covenant as promised. The Messiah, Jesus, who is the new David (King), the new Moses (Law), and the new priest in the line of Melchizedek, is the new temple. The Ark of the Covenant carried the 10 commandments tablets (the Law), the manna (the bread of life), and the rod of Aaron (the priesthood). Jesus became the new law, the bread of life, and the new head priest. Not just for Israel, but for all nations.

 

[SweetSue92]

It isn't my rendering....it is Gospel, Jesus's words.

Yes, we all fall short of the glory of God! I don't think that is being discounted in Christ's judgement of whether you/we truly believe in Him or not or try to follow Christ's loving and forgiving heart....

Okay so now we come to the heart of it.

What makes the difference between what Revelation calls "All liars, murderers...."

And those who try to follow?

 

[theHawk]

What does your god offer?

Eternal life.

 

[theHawk]

No.

If you don't like it, you can:

1. Avoid the Religion/Ethics section or
2. Not click on this thread

Demonic types just can’t stand people speaking the truth about Jesus, that is why they have to show up and attempt to disrupt, belittle, and attack.

 

[SweetSue92]

It isn't my rendering....it is Gospel, Jesus's words.

Yes, we all fall short of the glory of God! I don't think that is being discounted in Christ's judgement of whether you/we truly believe in Him or not or try to follow Christ's loving and forgiving heart....

Let me put a finer point on this.

All of us are sinners. All of us lie at some point, all of us hate or "hate", especially by the standards Christ set in his Sermon on the Mount. If that is the end of it, we are all doomed. Every one.

But we're not because of the Cross. Some of us enjoy Heaven with God forever, despite the fact that we are sinners.

So what to make of these verses in Revelation?

It's for those who make a PRACTICE of sin. Or in your words, they don't "try to follow" Christ. They are "slaves to sin":

knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin--Romans 6:6

Christians--people who are saved--will be sanctified over time. Over time, you will see them become more like Christ, but never, ever perfect. That is not the standard for Heaven. When Christians cite these verses, it's akin to taking Jesus off the Cross again. It's akin to the legalism that the Pharisees preached; it makes people feel they're not good enough and there's nothing they can do to BE good enough, so why try? And after all, who would want to worship such a demanding, unforgiving God anyway?

When the truth is:

He will take us if we will take His Son, imperfect though we are. That's how much He loves us. That's the message.

 

[Blues Man]

So everyone should just sin as they please?

There is no such thing as sin outside of a religion.

A sin is the violation of religious law. If I do not subscribe to your religion then what your religion calls sin does not apply to me.

 

[Blues Man]

The one you don’t believe in.

I'm not an atheist.

I don't know if gods exist or not but if they do I do not believe they are anything like the god in the OT, NT or Koran.

 

[Blues Man]

Ah, the old “God must show himself to me!” in order for you to believe.

Here’s the thing, God did reveal himself to man, right from the beginning. And yet man still turned his back on God.

Despite this, God still wanted to save humanity, and promised a redeemer.

When Moses led the Hebrews out of Egypt, showing them the power of God first hand, they still turned on him. They still built a false idol to worship despite seeing that God existed.

This happens over and over throughout the history of the Israelites. They turn away from God, despite having him there in the tabernacle or temple.

So God destroyed the stone temple and gave us a new one, along with the New Covenant as promised. The Messiah, Jesus, who is the new David (King), the new Moses (Law), and the new priest in the line of Melchizedek, is the new temple. The Ark of the Covenant carried the 10 commandments tablets (the Law), the manna (the bread of life), and the rod of Aaron (the priesthood). Jesus became the new law, the bread of life, and the new head priest. Not just for Israel, but for all nations.

Any god must show himself to me before I believe it exists and if if that happened I would not worship it

And you can quote your stories all you want. None of that is actual proof of anything.

 

[Red Front]

I'm not an atheist.

I don't know if gods exist or not but if they do I do not believe they are anything like the god in the OT, NT or Koran.

You're an agnostic atheist as I am. You lack a belief in a god or GOD, but you are open to the possibility that one might exist because you're not omniscient or all-knowing. That is agnostic atheism.

 

[Arlette]

You're an agnostic atheist as I am. You lack a belief in a god or GOD, but you are open to the possibility that one might exist because you're not omniscient or all-knowing. That is agnostic atheism.

But do you live like the possibility could be real?

 

[Cellblock2429]

From pastor James Johnston:

"If you are not a believer, you are responsible for what the skies above have been telling you since the day you were born. You ought to worship God. The apostle Paul writes in Romans 1:20--'For His invisible attributes, namely, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made, so they are without excuse.'"

And from Psalm 19:

"The heavens declare the glory of God
And the sky above proclaims His handiwork.
Day to day pours out speech
And night to night reveals knowledge."

Note that there is a message in the beauty, wonder, and majesty of the heavens. Do not miss it. Today is the day of salvation!

/----/

 

[Red Front]

But do you live like the possibility could be real?

I should be ethical, moral, a good person, regardless of whether there's a personal God or not. I strive to be a good person even if there's no life after death.

 

[Arlette]

I should be ethical, moral, a good person, regardless of whether there's a personal God or not. I strive to be a good person even if there's no life after death.

Not believing is the ticket to hell. All else can be forgiven.

 

[AntonToo]

From pastor James Johnston:

"If you are not a believer, you are responsible for what the skies above have been telling you since the day you were born. You ought to worship God. The apostle Paul writes in Romans 1:20--'For His invisible attributes, namely, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made, so they are without excuse.'"

And from Psalm 19:

"The heavens declare the glory of God
And the sky above proclaims His handiwork.
Day to day pours out speech
And night to night reveals knowledge."

Note that there is a message in the beauty, wonder, and majesty of the heavens. Do not miss it. Today is the day of salvation!

Is it true just because someone wrote it?

 

[SweetSue92]

Is it true just because someone wrote it?

Of course not

 

[theHawk]

Grace of god that's funny.

All you have to do is look around to see that if gods exist at all they really don't give a shit about us mere mortals

God isn’t the one spreading misery around the world. People do. Namely people who disobey God’s wishes.

Their throats are open graves;
they deceive with their tongues;
the venom of asps is on their lips;
their mouths are full of bitter cursing.
Their feet are quick to shed blood;
ruin and misery are in their ways,
and the way of peace they know not.
There is no fear of God before their eyes.

— Romans 3:13-18

 

[Arlette]

God isn’t the one spreading misery around the world. People do. Namely people who disobey God’s wishes.

Their throats are open graves;
they deceive with their tongues;
the venom of asps is on their lips;
their mouths are full of bitter cursing.
Their feet are quick to shed blood;
ruin and misery are in their ways,
and the way of peace they know not.
There is no fear of God before their eyes.

— Romans 3:13-18

Your God is an underachiever

 

[theHawk]

and many times they got it wrong.

Example?

I've said it before, for Christians today, the OT is not for you.

why? The OT is great for understanding God’s promise of a redeemer and in understanding why we need the redeemer.

Many Christians expect this war mongering god to one day return, slaughter all the democrats in a holy war of the ages based on poor dispensationalist hermeneutics. Jesus is actually the antithesis of the OT god.

The evil nations will be destroyed by their own hands. Babylon always falls, either from within, or another evil nation that destroys it.

It's because of the non-essential belief that the "Bible" has to be infallible and inerrant "Word of God" when in fact, Jesus never said anything about the need to believe in a canonized work of letters nor does the Bible even say that of itself.

Flat out false. Jesus purposely choose witnesses for his words and actions. When he was accused by the Jews, he told them to ask those who witnessed him about his actions. The non-believer Jews refused of course, just as non-believers do today.

 

[theHawk]

Your God is an underachiever

Nope. He has folks like you pegged for what you really are. His track record for telling the truth is 100%.