Zone1 Unbeliever: You Are Responsible

[Meriweather]

There’s still one true answer. And you two have exact opposite conclusions for it. Both of you can’t be right.

Okay. I am fine with Carl being right. Or you being right. What's next? Why is being "right" so vital to you? Since it is, I'll go along with you or anyone else, being right. So...now what?

 

[The Duke]

Well, you don't account for the half of humanity that doesn't worship the Abrahamic God, such as Hindus, Buddhists and Shintos.

What if the Shintos are right and God is really an angry Japanese woman?

They're not.

 

[Meriweather]

You asked. I’m just giving you my input.

I did not ask anyone to tell me what I am doing or what I am thinking. I have the correct answer to those, and no one else has much of a clue. Perhaps rephrase?

 

[XponentialChaos]

Okay. I am fine with Carl being right. Or you being right. What's next? Why is being "right" so vital to you? Since it is, I'll go along with you or anyone else being right. So...now what?

Because that was the question that got this whole thing rolling. You said I can get to Heaven without accepting Jesus Christ as my lord and savior. Carl says the opposite.

In this case, the answer to a question can potentially be life-changing.

 

[Meriweather]

In this case, the answer to a question can potentially be life-changing.

How?

 

[XponentialChaos]

I did not ask anyone to tell me what I am doing or what I am thinking. I have the correct answer to those, and no one else has much of a clue. Perhaps rephrase?

I apologize.

 

[XponentialChaos]

How?

A person realizing that they may or may not make it to Heaven doesn’t have the potential to be life-changing? Come on now.

You asked me why it’s important. I answered.

 

[Meriweather]

A person realizing that they may or may not make it to Heaven doesn’t have the potential to be life-changing? Come on now.

You asked me why it’s important. I answered.

And you think Jesus want us to tell people they are going to hell if they do not believe in him?

Jesus began with, "You are the salt of the earth. You are the light of the world. Don't lose your saltiness and don't hide your light under a bushel basket.

Jesus explained that God's Kingdom is within the reach of everyone, right now, today. No one needs to wait until they die to enter this Kingdom.

Answer the question of, "What if I do something to lose my saltiness or makes my light go out?" Answer as Jesus did: Turn away from your sin and towards obedience to God and that sin will be forgiven, remembered no more. Jesus had so many positive things to say to us.

If someone does not wish to live life in God's kingdom on earth, why would they wish to dwell there for an eternity?

I believe Jesus was us to help people come to know him...not come to know about hell.

 

[XponentialChaos]

And you think Jesus want us to tell people they are going to hell if they do not believe in him?

If that's what God intended, then yes. If that's not what he intended, then no. Hence why I asked the question and noted that you and your fellow Christians are not aligned on it whatsoever.

I think CarlinAnnArbor would answer that question with a yes considering that he believes that is exactly one of the requirements needed to avoid going to Hell. Carl, I tagged you because I'd like you to correct me if I'm mistaken here.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

And you think Jesus want us to tell people they are going to hell if they do not believe in him?

Luke 13

Now there were some present at that time who told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. 2 Jesus answered, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? 3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. 4 Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? 5 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.”

6 Then he told this parable: “A man had a fig tree growing in his vineyard, and he went to look for fruit on it but did not find any. 7 So he said to the man who took care of the vineyard, ‘For three years now I’ve been coming to look for fruit on this fig tree and haven’t found any. Cut it down! Why should it use up the soil?’

8 “‘Sir,’ the man replied, ‘leave it alone for one more year, and I’ll dig around it and fertilize it. 9 If it bears fruit next year, fine! If not, then cut it down

 

[SweetSue92]

Can you point out the post where I claimed that there was no human sacrifice.
Because I don't remember ever making that claim.

You wanted extra-Biblical evidence and I gave some, end of story.

 

[SweetSue92]

I think you read what you want to believe. I think other people are going to read what they want to believe.

That’s why we get different interpretations from the same text.

Jesus talks a lot about Hell.

That's right there in the text. To me, it's disingenuous to imply that if you study it, somehow this fact will be washed away.

There are some things in the text open to interpretation, as there are in any texts. But it's pretty hard to say "Moby Dick takes place on the sea" isn't more correct than "Moby Dick takes place in the desert". One is correct and one is wrong.

 

[SweetSue92]

Nobody said that one of those is relationships is wrong.

Whether a non-believer can make it to Heaven without accepting Jesus Christ as their lord and savior has exactly two possible outcomes. Yes he does allow them in or no he doesn’t. One or the other. Right or wrong. Either you are correct on that question or Carl is. I don’t see how you can possibly misunderstand this.

This isn’t about a “wrong relationship“. Whatever that’s supposed to mean.

You are correct about this. It's a difficult truth. Yet it is a truth.

 

[SweetSue92]

Okay. I am fine with Carl being right. Or you being right. What's next? Why is being "right" so vital to you? Since it is, I'll go along with you or anyone else, being right. So...now what?

It is important because it is a matter of saving souls. To Christians, it is of UTMOST important and the very last commandment our Lord gave to us before He ascended:

"Therefore, go and make disciples of all nations..." (Matthew 28:19)

 

[SweetSue92]

And you think Jesus want us to tell people they are going to hell if they do not believe in him?

Jesus began with, "You are the salt of the earth. You are the light of the world. Don't lose your saltiness and don't hide your light under a bushel basket.

Jesus explained that God's Kingdom is within the reach of everyone, right now, today. No one needs to wait until they die to enter this Kingdom.

Answer the question of, "What if I do something to lose my saltiness or makes my light go out?" Answer as Jesus did: Turn away from your sin and towards obedience to God and that sin will be forgiven, remembered no more. Jesus had so many positive things to say to us.

If someone does not wish to live life in God's kingdom on earth, why would they wish to dwell there for an eternity?

I believe Jesus was us to help people come to know him...not come to know about hell.

Both can be and are true. Some people are motivated by pleasure (getting to know Jesus, for example), others by the avoidance of pain (avoiding eternal punishment). Frankly, it is not the Christian's job to ascertain the often deep and subconscious motive of each person. We are to simply present the Gospel in its pure form. The Gospel is pure gold, and able to save to the uttermost. Paraphrased:

--God created a perfect world
--Into which, sin entered
--Sin demands a wage, a penalty
--That penalty is death: a death sentence
--We all inherited Adam's sin
--None of us, not one, enters Heaven with even a spot of sin
--God offers us a substitute, a Savior, who will take the penalty for our sin (bear our punishment)
--To be saved, we must believe and confess Jesus Christ

That's it. That's the message. Simple, profound and beautiful!

 

[Leviticus]

You wanted extra-Biblical evidence and I gave some, end of story.

Ok there's just as much evidence that the hebrews performed human sacrifice.

Not a good look, If the reasons for conquering the Caananites was things the Hebrews were doing themselves. Sounds more like they weren't sacrificing humans to the right gods, And the hebrews got upset about it.

 

[SweetSue92]

Ok there's just as much evidence that the hebrews performed human sacrifice.

Not a good look, If the reasons for conquering the Caananites was things the Hebrews were doing themselves. Sounds more like they weren't sacrificing humans to the right gods, And the hebrews got upset about it.

You made the claim. You produce this evidence.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Ok there's just as much evidence that the hebrews performed human sacrifice.

Not a good look, If the reasons for conquering the Caananites was things the Hebrews were doing themselves. Sounds more like they weren't sacrificing humans to the right gods, And the hebrews got upset about it.

They lost their land for 2520 years for a reason.

 

[Blues Man]

I suppose that depends on your definition of religion.

Religion is the belief in a Being that is greater than humanity. God. Lord. Father. Held in high esteem and is not scoffed. Those who scoff have no religion as they have no knowledge or experience of this greater Being.

God has extraordinary respect for you, and would never ask you to do anything that demeans yourself.

Announcing you are going to hell is an announcement you reject goodness, love, and extending a helping hand to anyone.

The reason you give for rejecting religion is like someone saying they reject football because one must throw a ball through a hoop before knocking down ten pins. Clearly such a person hasn't the faintest idea of what football is about or what it entails.

The only thing that matters to the god of the bible is that you worship it.

Your sins don't matter as long as you repent

There is absolutely no reason to think any gods, if any exist , care any more about us mere humans than we care about a mayfly.

 

[Blues Man]

Both can be and are true. Some people are motivated by pleasure (getting to know Jesus, for example), others by the avoidance of pain (avoiding eternal punishment). Frankly, it is not the Christian's job to ascertain the often deep and subconscious motive of each person. We are to simply present the Gospel in its pure form. The Gospel is pure gold, and able to save to the uttermost. Paraphrased:

--God created a perfect world
--Into which, sin entered
--Sin demands a wage, a penalty
--That penalty is death: a death sentence
--We all inherited Adam's sin
--None of us, not one, enters Heaven with even a spot of sin
--God offers us a substitute, a Savior, who will take the penalty for our sin (bear our punishment)
--To be saved, we must believe and confess Jesus Christ

That's it. That's the message. Simple, profound and beautiful!

Your god created sin. Just like your god created Satan.