UN chief admits bias against Israel

[P F Tinmore]

Even though it is "international law," it is law by treaty (Montevideo Convention). And it is a "Regional Treaty" not applicable or enforceable outside the "Americas;" the signatories being all within the Organization of American States (OAS). So, your assertion that the recognition of the State of Israel is somehow a violation of International Law relative to this citation is invalid.

Of course that is not true.

However, as a restatement of customary international law, the Montevideo Convention merely codified existing legal norms and its principles and therefore does not apply merely to the signatories, but to all subjects of international law as a whole.[10]

Montevideo Convention - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You base your post on false premise.

 

[skye]

Apart from most of its members showing hatred and bias towards Israel, it's an unfortunately fact that usually the Secretary General himself is also overcome with bias or is too weak to even attempt or control this disgraceful sentiment!

Moon's current statement demonstrates this fact.

He should get off his backside and do something about it, which is certainly within his power!

 

[Bloodrock44]

Apart from most of its members showing hatred and bias towards Israel, it's an unfortunately fact that usually the Secretary General himself is also overcome with bias or is too weak to even attempt or control this disgraceful sentiment!

Moon's current statement demonstrates this fact.

He should get off his backside and do something about it, which is certainly within his power!

Move the United Nations to Gaza. Bet they'd vote differently then. Ever look at that crowd? It's like the bar scene in Star Wars.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore; et al,

Treaty Law follows certain rules.

Even though it is "international law," it is law by treaty (Montevideo Convention). And it is a "Regional Treaty" not applicable or enforceable outside the "Americas;" the signatories being all within the Organization of American States (OAS). So, your assertion that the recognition of the State of Israel is somehow a violation of International Law relative to this citation is invalid.

Of course that is not true.

However, as a restatement of customary international law, the Montevideo Convention merely codified existing legal norms and its principles and therefore does not apply merely to the signatories, but to all subjects of international law as a whole.[10]

Montevideo Convention - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You base your post on false premise.

(COMMENT)

Treaty Law and the applicability of that law follows, oddly enough, the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties 1969 and not an interpretation for layman from Wikipedia.

There are basically three kinds of states that are describe in Treaty Law :

• “contracting State” means a State which has consented to be bound by the treaty, whether or not the treaty has entered into force;
• “party” means a State which has consented to be bound by the treaty and for which the treaty is in force;
• “third State” means a State not a party to the treaty;

To be a party to the Convention, each state must comply with Article 13 of the Convention:

ARTICLE 13

The present Convention shall be ratified by the High Contracting Parties in conformity with their respective constitutional procedures. The Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Republic of Uruguay shall transmit authentic certified copies to the governments for the aforementioned purpose of ratification. The instrument of ratification shall be deposited in the archives of the Pan American Union in Washington, which shall notify the signatory governments of said deposit. Such notification shall be considered as an exchange of ratifications.

No European or Middle Eastern State has consented to be bound by the Convention. In fact, no nation has signed-on to the treaty which is outside the OAS.

The Convention is considered "International Law" only because it covers an entire region of states. It is not applicable worldwide.

SECOND: I did not base my entire argument on that premise. Of the issues you raised, all were answered.

a ) a permanent population;

• The permanent population issue was answered by Articles 4 and 7 of the Mandate.

b ) a defined territory;

• The question of territory was mitigated by documents A/AC.24/SR.45 of A/RES/273(III).

c ) government; and

• No question.

d) capacity to enter into relations with the other states.

• No question.

So it doesn't rest entirely on the OAS Convention being applicable to the Middle East (which it is not). It should also be noted that none of the parties in conflict in the Middle East were established at the time of the Convention (1933). There is no ratification from any Middle East State concerning the Convention, especially Israel (1948) and Palestine (1988).

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

Rocco,

Were the immigrants to Palestine Israeli citizens or Palestinian citizens?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Rocco,

Since Palestine never signed on to the convention of international terrorism, they cannot be called terrorists?

 

[Hossfly]

Israel is a fascist state that regularly attacks it's neighbors and practices apartheid in it's own backyard.

Yet, the jewish citizens can't seem to figure out why the majority of the UN membership nations don't like their country.

Was this covered in the Friday Sermon at the Mosque, SunniMan? I hope your Imam also covered the apartheid in Muslim countries where those non-Muslims are not treated as equals and cannot even practice their religious beliefs in peace. Of course, we don't expect your Imam to cover such things as Muslims murdering innocent others, even when it comes to your fellow Sunnis murdering the Shiites and Ahmadis. That would be too much to ask. Meanwhile, I wonder if the Imam keeps on yelling out that Israel is a fascist state (of course overlooking all the Muslim fascist states) because SunniMan seems to have a very good time blurting that nonsense out all the time like he was a parrot.

 

[Hossfly]

What has the UN ever done against Israel?

Another question:

What has the UN ever done to benefit Palestine?

The UN keeps making resolutions against Israel while ignoring every other situation that requires attention (Tibetans, Kurds, etc.) This is because the UN is dominated by Arab, Muslim and Communist countries.

Just a bunch of yak.

What has the UN ever done against Israel?

What has the UN ever done to benefit Palestine?

Now, Tinnie, even you know those are silly questions. While the U.N. keeps on piling up resolutions against Israel they keep overlooking those countries that should be getting resolutions. The UN certainly has helped your brethren. After all, the Palestinians are the only people who have their own UN relief agencies looking after them. I imagine Tinnie doesn't mind that the UN mainly exists on all the money given by the U.S. and this money helps feed and educate Tinnie's brethren. I am sure many of the viewers would agree that they are more needy people on this planet (such as in Africa) who need the help of the U.N. than the Palestinians. I wonder if Tinnie can show us some pictures of the skin and bones Palestinians similar to those we have viewed of African people.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The UN keeps making resolutions against Israel while ignoring every other situation that requires attention (Tibetans, Kurds, etc.) This is because the UN is dominated by Arab, Muslim and Communist countries.

Just a bunch of yak.

What has the UN ever done against Israel?

What has the UN ever done to benefit Palestine?

Now, Tinnie, even you know those are silly questions. While the U.N. keeps on piling up resolutions against Israel they keep overlooking those countries that should be getting resolutions. The UN certainly has helped your brethren. After all, the Palestinians are the only people who have their own UN relief agencies looking after them. I imagine Tinnie doesn't mind that the UN mainly exists on all the money given by the U.S. and this money helps feed and educate Tinnie's brethren. I am sure many of the viewers would agree that they are more needy people on this planet (such as in Africa) who need the help of the U.N. than the Palestinians. I wonder if Tinnie can show us some pictures of the skin and bones Palestinians similar to those we have viewed of African people.

the Palestinians are the only people who have their own UN relief agencies looking after them.

Indeed, when is the UN going to pull its thumb out of its ass and help the Palestinians get Israel off their backs so they will not need relief?

 

[Hossfly]

Just a bunch of yak.

What has the UN ever done against Israel?

What has the UN ever done to benefit Palestine?

Now, Tinnie, even you know those are silly questions. While the U.N. keeps on piling up resolutions against Israel they keep overlooking those countries that should be getting resolutions. The UN certainly has helped your brethren. After all, the Palestinians are the only people who have their own UN relief agencies looking after them. I imagine Tinnie doesn't mind that the UN mainly exists on all the money given by the U.S. and this money helps feed and educate Tinnie's brethren. I am sure many of the viewers would agree that they are more needy people on this planet (such as in Africa) who need the help of the U.N. than the Palestinians. I wonder if Tinnie can show us some pictures of the skin and bones Palestinians similar to those we have viewed of African people.

the Palestinians are the only people who have their own UN relief agencies looking after them.

Indeed, when is the UN going to pull its thumb out of its ass and help the Palestinians get Israel off their backs so they will not need relief?

As soon as Palestine quits playing the victim.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Now, Tinnie, even you know those are silly questions. While the U.N. keeps on piling up resolutions against Israel they keep overlooking those countries that should be getting resolutions. The UN certainly has helped your brethren. After all, the Palestinians are the only people who have their own UN relief agencies looking after them. I imagine Tinnie doesn't mind that the UN mainly exists on all the money given by the U.S. and this money helps feed and educate Tinnie's brethren. I am sure many of the viewers would agree that they are more needy people on this planet (such as in Africa) who need the help of the U.N. than the Palestinians. I wonder if Tinnie can show us some pictures of the skin and bones Palestinians similar to those we have viewed of African people.

the Palestinians are the only people who have their own UN relief agencies looking after them.

Indeed, when is the UN going to pull its thumb out of its ass and help the Palestinians get Israel off their backs so they will not need relief?

As soon as Palestine quits playing the victim.

The Palestinians were supporting themselves until Israel came along.

Now we have two countries on welfare.

Now there is a plan we should all support.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

These are trick questions.

Rocco,

Were the immigrants to Palestine Israeli citizens or Palestinian citizens?

(OBSERVATION)

There was neither a State of Israel or Palestine.

In Palestine, citizenship was governed by the Palestine Citizenship Order of 24 July 1925, amended by various successive orders. The amended text of the Order of 24 July 1925 is worded as follows:

“Turkish citizens habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 6th day of August 1924 2 shall become Palestinian citizens.”​

Turkish citizens born in Palestine who left Palestine before 6 August 1924 were given the right of option on condition that they could prove that they had unbroken ties with their place of origin and give formal assurances of their intention to return to Palestine. The right of option expired on 24 July 1945.

Applicants for naturalization had to fulfil the following conditions:

a) “That he has resided in Palestine for a period not less than 2 years out of 3 years immediately preceding the date of his application;
b) “That he is of good character and has an adequate knowledge of either the English, the Arabic or the Hebrew language;
c) “That he intends, if his application is granted, to reside in Palestine.”​

All these three categories of Palestinian citizens are refugees under paragraph 11 of the resolution of 11 December 1948, if, after 29 November 1947, 3 they left Palestinian territory at present under the control of the Israel authorities, on condition that they are of Arab origin.

There are therefore three categories of Palestinian citizens, namely:

1. Those who became Palestinian citizens by right, by reason of the fact that they normally resided in that country as at 6 August 1924;

2. Those who exercized their right of option;

3. Those who obtained naturalization.​

SOURCE: A/AC.25/W/61

IV.--IMMIGRATION AND EMIGRATION.​

1.Q. What measures have been taken to place the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the national home of the Jewish people? What are the effects of these measures?

A. The direction and objects of the policy of the Government of Palestine in law, administration and finance are unchanged. The visible results of the policy have been tranquillity, increased Jewish immigration, progress of Jewish agricultural settlement. The expansion of industry has been encouraged by the grant of exemption of certain raw materials from import duty (see [pages ] of this Report).

The regulations under the Immigration Ordinance, 1925, set up a statutory procedure for the introduction of Jewish immigrant labour into Palestine. The Palestinian Citizenship Order in Council, 1925, facilitates the acquisition of Palestinian nationality by persons settling in the country, including those who opted for Palestinian citizenship under the Palestine Legislative Council Election Order in Council, 1922. There was a remarkable development of Jewish Co-operative Societies, constituted principally for building, agricultural and mutual credit purposes. Twenty-six Jewish companies were formed.​

2.Q. What measures have been taken to place the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the development of self-governing institutions? What are the effects of these measures?

A. Progress in this direction is still in the sphere of local rather than central government. The powers and jurisdiction of municipalities were validated, extended and defined by the Municipal Councils Validation, the Determination of Areas of Municipalities and the Municipal Rates Ordinances (see page of this Report).​

3.Q. What measures have been taken to bring the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will safeguard the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion? What are the effects of these measures?

A. The Palestinian Citizenship Order in Council which was made in August, 1925, provides for the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by persons habitually resident in the country who were Ottoman subjects, and persons who were foreign subjects and take up permanent residence.

The Convention between His Majesty's Government and the Government of the United States which provides for the treatment of American citizens in Palestine and places them on the same footing as other foreign subjects, came into force in December, 1925. The Convention recites the Mandate and declares that the United States consents to the administration of Palestine by His Britannic Majesty pursuant to the Mandate. It expressly confers on the nationals of the United States the right to establish and maintain educational and religious institutions subject to the provision of any local laws for the maintenance of public order and public morals.

A Commission under the Chairmanship of Sir Anton Bertram, ex-Chief Justice of Ceylon, was appointed by the High Commissioner to enquire into controversies between the Orthodox Patriarchate and the Arab Orthodox Community as to the rights of the laity; controversies not affecting the custody of the Holy Places nor falling within the competence of the proposed Holy Places Commission. The Report of the Commission has not yet been published.​

VI.--NATIONALITY.​

1.Q. What is the text of the nationality law?

A. The text of the Palestinian Citizenship Order in Council and of a Proclamation by the High Commissioner for Palestine amending Article 2 thereof are reprinted in Section 4 of this Report.​

2.Q. Have special provisions been enacted, framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews?

A. Article 5 of the Order facilitates the acquisition of citizenship by Jews who opted therefor under Article 2 of the Palestine Legislative Council Election Order in Council, 1922. The qualifications for naturalization are simple: two years' residence in Palestine out of the three years preceding application, good character, and the declared intention to settle in Palestine; knowledge of Hebrew is accepted under the literacy qualification. In special cases the High Commissioner is empowered to grant naturalization even if the period of residence has not been within the three years preceding application. Special naturalization offices have already been opened in Jerusalem, Haifa and Tiberias; and an officer is visiting the Jewish agricultural settlements in the north to receive applications on the spot.​

SOURCE: REPORT BY HIS BRITANNIC MAJESTY'S GOVERNMENT ADMINISTRATION OF PALESTINE AND TRANSJORDAN

I hope this answers your question.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

Rocco,

Does this mean that when the foreign Jewish Agency declared Israel to be a state it had no defined territory and no population?

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

This is another trick question. You know very well that the definition of "terrorism" is not universally accepted.

Rocco,

Since Palestine never signed on to the convention of international terrorism, they cannot be called terrorists?

(OBSERVATION)

The United Nations Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy is NOT a "Treaty" or "Convention."

The United Nations Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy was adopted by Member States on 8 September 2006. The strategy, in the form of a resolution and an annexed Plan of Action (A/RES/60/288), is a unique global instrument that will enhance national, regional and international efforts to counter terrorism. This is the first time that all Member States have agreed to a common strategic approach to fight terrorism, not only sending a clear message that terrorism is unacceptable in all its forms and manifestation but also resolving to take practical steps individually and collectively to prevent and combat it. Those practical steps include a wide array of measures ranging from strengthening state capacity to counter terrorist threats to better coordinating United Nations system’s counter-terrorism activities. The adoption of the strategy fulfils the commitment made by world leaders at the 2005 September Summit and builds on many of the elements proposed by the Secretary-General in his 2 May 2006 report, entitled Uniting against Terrorism: Recommendations for a Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy.

Palestine became a State in 1988.

(COMMENT)

Most acts of Terrorism committed by Palestinian elements are committed inside a sovereignty that has domestic laws that cover the offense. For instance, the attack in 1972 on the Olympics Games in Munich, in which 11 members of the Israeli Olympic team were killed, along with a German police officer, was committed by Palestinian group known as Black September (a small cell of Fatah). While the Palestinian may call it anything it wants and justify it in any manner it wants, it is part of an establish behavior internationally known as terrorism. Even the Hashemite Kingdom considered them terrorists.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

This is another trick question. You know very well that the definition of "terrorism" is not universally accepted.

Rocco,

Since Palestine never signed on to the convention of international terrorism, they cannot be called terrorists?

(OBSERVATION)

The United Nations Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy is NOT a "Treaty" or "Convention."

The United Nations Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy was adopted by Member States on 8 September 2006. The strategy, in the form of a resolution and an annexed Plan of Action (A/RES/60/288), is a unique global instrument that will enhance national, regional and international efforts to counter terrorism. This is the first time that all Member States have agreed to a common strategic approach to fight terrorism, not only sending a clear message that terrorism is unacceptable in all its forms and manifestation but also resolving to take practical steps individually and collectively to prevent and combat it. Those practical steps include a wide array of measures ranging from strengthening state capacity to counter terrorist threats to better coordinating United Nations system’s counter-terrorism activities. The adoption of the strategy fulfils the commitment made by world leaders at the 2005 September Summit and builds on many of the elements proposed by the Secretary-General in his 2 May 2006 report, entitled Uniting against Terrorism: Recommendations for a Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy.

Palestine became a State in 1988.

(COMMENT)

Most acts of Terrorism committed by Palestinian elements are committed inside a sovereignty that has domestic laws that cover the offense. For instance, the attack in 1972 on the Olympics Games in Munich, in which 11 members of the Israeli Olympic team were killed, along with a German police officer, was committed by Palestinian group known as Black September (a small cell of Fatah). While the Palestinian may call it anything it wants and justify it in any manner it wants, it is part of an establish behavior internationally known as terrorism. Even the Hashemite Kingdom considered them terrorists.

Most Respectfully,
R

Most acts of Terrorism committed by Palestinian elements are committed inside a sovereignty that has domestic laws that cover the offense. For instance, the attack in 1972...

And 1972 is the most recent?

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Another trick question.

Rocco,
Does this mean that when the foreign Jewish Agency declared Israel to be a state it had no defined territory and no population?

(COMMENT)

No, it was a fully coordinated plan.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore;

OK stop this.

P F Tinmore, et al,

This is another trick question. You know very well that the definition of "terrorism" is not universally accepted.

Rocco,

Since Palestine never signed on to the convention of international terrorism, they cannot be called terrorists?

(OBSERVATION)

The United Nations Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy is NOT a "Treaty" or "Convention."

Palestine became a State in 1988.

(COMMENT)

Most acts of Terrorism committed by Palestinian elements are committed inside a sovereignty that has domestic laws that cover the offense. For instance, the attack in 1972 on the Olympics Games in Munich, in which 11 members of the Israeli Olympic team were killed, along with a German police officer, was committed by Palestinian group known as Black September (a small cell of Fatah). While the Palestinian may call it anything it wants and justify it in any manner it wants, it is part of an establish behavior internationally known as terrorism. Even the Hashemite Kingdom considered them terrorists.

Most Respectfully,
R

Most acts of Terrorism committed by Palestinian elements are committed inside a sovereignty that has domestic laws that cover the offense. For instance, the attack in 1972...

And 1972 is the most recent?

(COMMENT)

No, there were rocket attacks yesterday.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Another trick question.

Rocco,
Does this mean that when the foreign Jewish Agency declared Israel to be a state it had no defined territory and no population?

(COMMENT)

No, it was a fully coordinated plan.

Most Respectfully,
R

Indeed it was, and the Palestinians defended themselves from that plan all through the mandate period and up through today.

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore;

OK stop this.

P F Tinmore, et al,

This is another trick question. You know very well that the definition of "terrorism" is not universally accepted.


(OBSERVATION)

The United Nations Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy is NOT a "Treaty" or "Convention."

Palestine became a State in 1988.

(COMMENT)

Most acts of Terrorism committed by Palestinian elements are committed inside a sovereignty that has domestic laws that cover the offense. For instance, the attack in 1972 on the Olympics Games in Munich, in which 11 members of the Israeli Olympic team were killed, along with a German police officer, was committed by Palestinian group known as Black September (a small cell of Fatah). While the Palestinian may call it anything it wants and justify it in any manner it wants, it is part of an establish behavior internationally known as terrorism. Even the Hashemite Kingdom considered them terrorists.

Most Respectfully,
R

Most acts of Terrorism committed by Palestinian elements are committed inside a sovereignty that has domestic laws that cover the offense. For instance, the attack in 1972...

And 1972 is the most recent?

(COMMENT)

No, there were rocket attacks yesterday.

Most Respectfully,
R

Outside of Palestine?

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

It depends on who's definition you use.

P F Tinmore;

OK stop this.

And 1972 is the most recent?

(COMMENT)

No, there were rocket attacks yesterday.

Most Respectfully,
R

Outside of Palestine?

(COMMENT)

The Arab Palestinian Terrorist uses the definition as outline in the HAMAS Covenant and FATAH Charter (PNA). Therefore, under their twisted understanding, the answer is NO.

If you use international law, the answer is YES.

Every State has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate the existing international boundaries of another State or as a means of solving international disputes, including territorial disputes and problems concerning frontiers of States.

Every State likewise has the duty to refrain from the threat or use of force to violate international lines of demarcation, such as armistice lines, established by or pursuant to an international agreement to which it is a party or which it is otherwise bound to respect.

Most Respectfully,
R