UN calls on Israel to lift Gaza blockade

Not true. I have criticized Israel several times. I never said Israel was not guilty of anything. I never said Israel is an Angel
That's not what I've seen.

Every time Israel starts shooting, you blame the ones they're shooting at, for initiating the violence. Even when it is shown to you that Israeli actions are in clear violation of international laws, you still defend their actions.

I don't see you walking your talk.
 
Link to what ?
Either way, you're the most biased poster here, so no matter what evidence ANYONE presents you, it's ALWAYS Israels fault and NEVER the Palestinians fault.

I don't know why an intelligent and knowledgable poster like Rocco wastes his time with you.

What is biased about facts?

I can't help it if the truth is anti Israel.

False. The truth is NOT anti - Israel. That is your opinion.

Again, it's impossible to have a truthful debate with someone like you who is completely one sided. Not trying to insult you, but it's the truth.


Say one bad thing about Palestinians

I do regularly. You haven't been reading my posts.
 
No doubt, the majority of Palestinian children were killed while going about normal daily activities or simply being in their homes.

Now, tell us, Catherine Cook, what where those Israeli airstrikes and ground-fire AIMING AT when those children died?

And, tell us, Catherine Cook, how CLOSE to those children WERE those aiming points?

And, tell us, Catherine Cook, WHY were those aiming points positioned so close to those children?

And, tell us, Catherine Cook, SHOULD those aiming points have been positioned so close to those children?

Finally, tell us, Catherine Cook, WHO was responsible for positioning those aiming points so close to those children?
Let's ask Alison, Gabby:

"Giffords, of course, wasnÂ’t the only victim of the Tucson shooting; 14 were injured and six were killed. It is deeply saddening to read about the dead and to imagine the unending grief for their survivors. /19/

"It is particularly difficult to view the sweet, smiling picture of nine-year-old Christina Taylor Green, knowing that her bright life is no longer before her.

"It is equally tragic to read of nine-year-old Akaber, killed by Israeli gunfire to her head while riding in her uncleÂ’s car to get medical stitches removed, and of the 29 other nine-year-olds killed by Israeli forces in the past decade, eight of them by Israeli gunfire to the head.

"It is too late for Akabar, Diya, Mohammed, Tom, and the multitude of others. But there is hope that Gabrielle Giffords is going to survive. Let us pray that she recovers fully, that she is able to return to Congress, and that she then works to prevent others ? including Palestinians ? from being shot in the head.

"We have better uses for our money than to fund atrocities."

Get it, Gabby?
Teen-aged Jews who've been indoctrinated all their lives to view Arabs as animals sit in sniper towers and POP any kid they feel like, knowing good kosher Gabbys will apologize for their crimes. Ready for the best part, G...US tax dollars make it all happen


Shot in the Head » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names
One-sided, lop-sided anecdotal accounts, posted on and second-hand relay of narratives on pro-Palestinian websites.

Some of them may even be true, from time to time, with respect to some particular sociopathic Israeli soldier (every Army has some) but that does not make such behaviors endemic or systemic...

And, of course, none of that answers the questions asked of Catherine Cook.

Stay focused; you're wandering all over the place.

Answer the questions posed to Ms. Cook and you'll find reciprocation on the head-shot issue...
See if you can focus on eyewitness testimony and first-hand confessions from some Jews who find war crimes more psychopathic than you apparently do:

"A 2009 article in the UK Telegraph entitled 'Bullets in the brain, shrapnel in the spine: the terrible injuries suffered by children of Gaza,' investigated a situation in which doctors at a hospital near Gaza were 'almost overwhelmed by the number of Palestinian children needing treatment for bullet wounds to their heads.'/2/

"The article began: 'On just one day last week staff at the El-Arish hospital in Sinai were called to perform sophisticated CAT brain scans on a nine-year-old, two 10-year-olds and a 14-year-old ? each of whom had a bullet still lodged in their brain, after coming under fire during the Israeli ground assault on Gaza.'

"Asked about the nature of these shootings, a physician replied:

“'I can’t precisely decide whether these children are being shot at as a target, but in some cases the bullet comes from the front of the head and goes towards the back, so I think the gun has been directly pointed at the child.'"

"Israeli soldiers in a group called 'Breaking the Silence' have provided chilling testimonies about Israeli military culture; the titles alone tell a great deal. Following are a few:'The battalion commander ordered us to shoot anyone trying to remove the bodies', 'The commander of the navy commandos put the muzzle of the rifle into the man’s mouth', 'They told us to shoot at anybody moving in the street', 'You can do whatever you feel like, nobody is going to question it.'”

Shot in the Head » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

Of course, for some Jews such behavior applies equally to their own children:

"A month after the Nazi pogrom against Germany's Jews, famously known as
Kristallnacht, Ben-Gurion (the 1st Israeli Prime Minister) provided an interesting mathematical formula for
saving German Jewish kids. He stated in December 1938:
'If I knew it was possible to save all [Jewish] children of Germany
by their transfer to England and only half of them by transferring them
to Eretz-Yisrael, I would choose the latter----because we are faced not
only with the accounting of these [Jewish] children but also with the
historical accounting of the Jewish People.' (Righteous
Victims, p. 162) Obviously, a person who cares this much about
Jewish Children would care about Palestinian Children!"

Zionist Quotes: Collection of quotations from Israeli leaders legitimizing targeting civilians. - Palestine Remembered

Does Ben-Gurion's narrative qualify as an endemic of systemic example of Zionism.
Ask Catherine for help...you obviously need some.
 
Let's ask Alison, Gabby:

"Giffords, of course, wasnÂ’t the only victim of the Tucson shooting; 14 were injured and six were killed. It is deeply saddening to read about the dead and to imagine the unending grief for their survivors. /19/

"It is particularly difficult to view the sweet, smiling picture of nine-year-old Christina Taylor Green, knowing that her bright life is no longer before her.

"It is equally tragic to read of nine-year-old Akaber, killed by Israeli gunfire to her head while riding in her uncleÂ’s car to get medical stitches removed, and of the 29 other nine-year-olds killed by Israeli forces in the past decade, eight of them by Israeli gunfire to the head.

"It is too late for Akabar, Diya, Mohammed, Tom, and the multitude of others. But there is hope that Gabrielle Giffords is going to survive. Let us pray that she recovers fully, that she is able to return to Congress, and that she then works to prevent others ? including Palestinians ? from being shot in the head.

"We have better uses for our money than to fund atrocities."

Get it, Gabby?
Teen-aged Jews who've been indoctrinated all their lives to view Arabs as animals sit in sniper towers and POP any kid they feel like, knowing good kosher Gabbys will apologize for their crimes. Ready for the best part, G...US tax dollars make it all happen


Shot in the Head » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names
One-sided, lop-sided anecdotal accounts, posted on and second-hand relay of narratives on pro-Palestinian websites.

Some of them may even be true, from time to time, with respect to some particular sociopathic Israeli soldier (every Army has some) but that does not make such behaviors endemic or systemic...

And, of course, none of that answers the questions asked of Catherine Cook.

Stay focused; you're wandering all over the place.

Answer the questions posed to Ms. Cook and you'll find reciprocation on the head-shot issue...
See if you can focus on eyewitness testimony and first-hand confessions from some Jews who find war crimes more psychopathic than you apparently do:

"A 2009 article in the UK Telegraph entitled 'Bullets in the brain, shrapnel in the spine: the terrible injuries suffered by children of Gaza,' investigated a situation in which doctors at a hospital near Gaza were 'almost overwhelmed by the number of Palestinian children needing treatment for bullet wounds to their heads.'/2/

"The article began: 'On just one day last week staff at the El-Arish hospital in Sinai were called to perform sophisticated CAT brain scans on a nine-year-old, two 10-year-olds and a 14-year-old ? each of whom had a bullet still lodged in their brain, after coming under fire during the Israeli ground assault on Gaza.'

"Asked about the nature of these shootings, a physician replied:

“'I can’t precisely decide whether these children are being shot at as a target, but in some cases the bullet comes from the front of the head and goes towards the back, so I think the gun has been directly pointed at the child.'"

"Israeli soldiers in a group called 'Breaking the Silence' have provided chilling testimonies about Israeli military culture; the titles alone tell a great deal. Following are a few:'The battalion commander ordered us to shoot anyone trying to remove the bodies', 'The commander of the navy commandos put the muzzle of the rifle into the man’s mouth', 'They told us to shoot at anybody moving in the street', 'You can do whatever you feel like, nobody is going to question it.'”

Shot in the Head » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

Of course, for some Jews such behavior applies equally to their own children:

"A month after the Nazi pogrom against Germany's Jews, famously known as
Kristallnacht, Ben-Gurion (the 1st Israeli Prime Minister) provided an interesting mathematical formula for
saving German Jewish kids. He stated in December 1938:
'If I knew it was possible to save all [Jewish] children of Germany
by their transfer to England and only half of them by transferring them
to Eretz-Yisrael, I would choose the latter----because we are faced not
only with the accounting of these [Jewish] children but also with the
historical accounting of the Jewish People.' (Righteous
Victims, p. 162) Obviously, a person who cares this much about
Jewish Children would care about Palestinian Children!"

Zionist Quotes: Collection of quotations from Israeli leaders legitimizing targeting civilians. - Palestine Remembered

Does Ben-Gurion's narrative qualify as an endemic of systemic example of Zionism.
Ask Catherine for help...you obviously need some.

almost overwhelmed by the number of Palestinian children needing treatment for bullet wounds to their heads.

In the year 2000, 91 Palestinian children were killed by Israel. During that time no Israeli children were killed.

Of those 91 Palestinian children killed by Israel 48 were shot in the head.

This looks more like policy than accidents.
 
What is biased about facts?

I can't help it if the truth is anti Israel.

False. The truth is NOT anti - Israel. That is your opinion.

Again, it's impossible to have a truthful debate with someone like you who is completely one sided. Not trying to insult you, but it's the truth.


Say one bad thing about Palestinians

I do regularly. You haven't been reading my posts.

I have been reading your posts.
 
One-sided, lop-sided anecdotal accounts, posted on and second-hand relay of narratives on pro-Palestinian websites.

Some of them may even be true, from time to time, with respect to some particular sociopathic Israeli soldier (every Army has some) but that does not make such behaviors endemic or systemic...

And, of course, none of that answers the questions asked of Catherine Cook.

Stay focused; you're wandering all over the place.

Answer the questions posed to Ms. Cook and you'll find reciprocation on the head-shot issue...
See if you can focus on eyewitness testimony and first-hand confessions from some Jews who find war crimes more psychopathic than you apparently do:

"A 2009 article in the UK Telegraph entitled 'Bullets in the brain, shrapnel in the spine: the terrible injuries suffered by children of Gaza,' investigated a situation in which doctors at a hospital near Gaza were 'almost overwhelmed by the number of Palestinian children needing treatment for bullet wounds to their heads.'/2/

"The article began: 'On just one day last week staff at the El-Arish hospital in Sinai were called to perform sophisticated CAT brain scans on a nine-year-old, two 10-year-olds and a 14-year-old ? each of whom had a bullet still lodged in their brain, after coming under fire during the Israeli ground assault on Gaza.'

"Asked about the nature of these shootings, a physician replied:

“'I can’t precisely decide whether these children are being shot at as a target, but in some cases the bullet comes from the front of the head and goes towards the back, so I think the gun has been directly pointed at the child.'"

"Israeli soldiers in a group called 'Breaking the Silence' have provided chilling testimonies about Israeli military culture; the titles alone tell a great deal. Following are a few:'The battalion commander ordered us to shoot anyone trying to remove the bodies', 'The commander of the navy commandos put the muzzle of the rifle into the man’s mouth', 'They told us to shoot at anybody moving in the street', 'You can do whatever you feel like, nobody is going to question it.'”

Shot in the Head » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

Of course, for some Jews such behavior applies equally to their own children:

"A month after the Nazi pogrom against Germany's Jews, famously known as
Kristallnacht, Ben-Gurion (the 1st Israeli Prime Minister) provided an interesting mathematical formula for
saving German Jewish kids. He stated in December 1938:
'If I knew it was possible to save all [Jewish] children of Germany
by their transfer to England and only half of them by transferring them
to Eretz-Yisrael, I would choose the latter----because we are faced not
only with the accounting of these [Jewish] children but also with the
historical accounting of the Jewish People.' (Righteous
Victims, p. 162) Obviously, a person who cares this much about
Jewish Children would care about Palestinian Children!"

Zionist Quotes: Collection of quotations from Israeli leaders legitimizing targeting civilians. - Palestine Remembered

Does Ben-Gurion's narrative qualify as an endemic of systemic example of Zionism.
Ask Catherine for help...you obviously need some.

almost overwhelmed by the number of Palestinian children needing treatment for bullet wounds to their heads.

In the year 2000, 91 Palestinian children were killed by Israel. During that time no Israeli children were killed.

Of those 91 Palestinian children killed by Israel 48 were shot in the head.

This looks more like policy than accidents.
Or a competition.

"In the past 10 years Israeli forces have killed at least 255 Palestinian minors by fire to the head, and the number may actually be greater, since in many instances the specific bodily location of the lethal trauma is unlisted. In addition, this statistic does not include the many more Palestinian youngsters shot in the head by Israeli soldiers who survived, in one form or another.

"Below is a small sampling of those who died..."

"Sami, 12, died of head wounds from IDF gunfire during a demonstration. Abdul, 9, was killed by IDF gunfire to his head during a funeral. Ala, 14, died of head wounds from IDF gunfire while on the terrace of his home one hour after injuring an Israeli soldier with a stone.

"Omar, 11, died of head wounds from IDF gunfire during a demonstration. Diya, 3 months, was killed, along with her older brother, by Israeli settler gunfire to her head and back. Bara, 10, was killed by IDF gunfire to his head while near his home. Ayman, 15, was killed by IDF tank fire to his head while farming.

"Khalil, 11, was killed by IDF tank fire to his head while playing with a friend. Rami, 13, was killed by IDF helicopter fire to his head while playing in front of his house. Yaser, 11, died of head wounds from an IDF rubber-coated bullet fired at close range during a demonstration?/1/

"Imagine if these names were Bobby? Michael? SusanÂ… Melissa? Jimmy?
and that the foreign troops killing them were invading Arizona, Connecticut, OhioÂ…"

Shot in the Head » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names
 
"...See if you can focus on eyewitness testimony and first-hand confessions from some Jews who find war crimes more psychopathic than you apparently do..."
I, too, find many war-crimes to be reprehensible, and I, too, as a parent, perceive the intentional targeting of innocent children to be despicable and indefensible.

We differ greatly with respect to...

1. what constitutes a war-crime, in this context...

2. what constitutes a 'child', in this context...

3. the context in which such injuries occurred...

4. the scale in comparison to all child-related injuries...

5. the objectivity with which such Intentions or Motivation are attributed...

6. whether it is accurate to label these as systemic or endemic rather than isolated or limited in scope

"...The article began: 'On just one day last week staff at the El-Arish hospital in Sinai were called to perform sophisticated CAT brain scans on a nine-year-old, two 10-year-olds and a 14-year-old ? each of whom had a bullet still lodged in their brain, after coming under fire during the Israeli ground assault on Gaza.'..."
* Is it certain that it was an IDF round (rather than a Hamas round) responsible for each injury?

* Where were each of these children at the time they were shot? Home? Shelter? Street? School? Mosque? Store? Other?

* If they were within a structure, was that structure used by (or suspected of being used by) Hamas at the time they were shot?

* If they were on the street, where were their parents and why were they allowed to be present in such danger zones?

* What were each of these children doing at the time they were shot? Anything hostile?

* Were any of them participating in a riot that was suppressed by small-arms fire?

* Were any of them caught-up in a legitimate military firefight and got in the way?

* Was fire directed at them individually or as part of blanket-fire against an adversary?

So many things we don't know about each of those four cases.

And, of course the Big Math Question...

* What percentage of ALL child-injuries due to small-arms fire that day were those four (4) head shots?

If there were 100 child injuries from gunshot that day, then those four would represent 4%.

If there were 4 child injuries from gunshot that day, then those four would represent 100%.

The 100% (or any high) number would be indicative of an intentional headshot targeting or one heulluvan unlikely coincidence.

The 4% (or lower) number would be indicative of absolutely nothing.

Neither your UK Telegraph article nor anything else that you've provided here serve to supply us with the richer context that we need in order to arrive at the conclusion that these children were intentionally targeted for head-shots. Much more is required in order to substantiate such a claim, within the realm of pattern-analysis, even while conceding the point that not ALL such questions may prove answer-able, and that we may be obliged to deduce one or two of the data points based upon a richer data set than you have heretofore supplied.

"...'Asked about the nature of these shootings, a physician replied: 'I canÂ’t precisely decide whether these children are being shot at as a target..."
Yes, Doctor, as a Scientist and Man of Truth and Honesty first, and a Palestinian second, you, too, realize that you cannot reliably decide such matters, based upon the scanty evidence in your possession, and absent the sort of data bullet-pointed earlier, above.

"...'but in some cases the bullet comes from the front of the head and goes towards the back, so I think the gun has been directly pointed at the child.'"
One of the dumbest things that I've ever heard out of the mouth of a credentialed scientist.

Of COURSE the gun was pointed directly at the child!

It would be a little difficult for the round to hit the child if the gun had been pointed AWAY from the child, wouldn't it, Doctor?

The supplemental and salient questions here are:

* In each such case, WHY was the gun pointed towards the child?

* In each such case, was it intentional or simply part of a broader fire-mission/firefight?

* In each such case, WHOSE gun WAS it?

We do not appear to know the answers to these important questions, based upon the data provided in the article.

Also, note that the Doctor said 'SOME of these cases'... I mean, Good Lord - there are only four (4) cases total in this sampling deck to consider... and SOME means less than ALL... so we're certainly looking at fewer than four (4)... how many kids in a 'SOME', Doctor? 1? 2? 3? Is that a sufficiently sampling-deck to make any sort of judgment call as to cause and effect and intentions?

In actuality, the Doctor told the truth, as he saw it, and then propaganda-shills and disinterested journalists 'fluffed-up' this sparse data, to try to self-declare or strongly hint-at a Trend or Pattern, when an objective and dispassionate analysis of the data at-hand indicates no such Trend or Pattern to-date.

Both your sampling deck and the requisite context-data are grossly inadequate to the task of substantiating a Trend or Pattern here.

Sorry.

"...'Israeli soldiers in a group called 'Breaking the Silence' have provided chilling testimonies about Israeli military culture; the titles alone tell a great deal. Following are a few:'The battalion commander ordered us to shoot anyone trying to remove the bodies', 'The commander of the navy commandos put the muzzle of the rifle into the man’s mouth', 'They told us to shoot at anybody moving in the street', 'You can do whatever you feel like, nobody is going to question it.'”
Yes.

War, including ongoing guerrilla and urban warfare and ongoing border confrontation and adversary-suppression is a nasty and bloody business and forever affects those who participate on both sides.

In Vietnam, US troops perpetrated the My Lai Massacre, and a fair number of other atrocities. In Afghanistan, Soviet troops perpetrated several massacres and atrocities. In virtually every war (declared and undeclared, ongoing or sporadic, mainstream forces or guerrilla) there are atrocities and wrongdoings.

Soldiers are obliged to harden their hearts in order to kill their fellow man; some take to this grudgingly, some easily; many are traumatized by their own experiences and actions and cannot live with the guilt or memories. And, oftentimes, this is with respect to troops fighting enemies who are NOT suicide-bombing and and mortaring and rocket-barraging their own wives and children and parents.

I would not be surprised in the slightest to learn that the IDF contains its own fair share of both sociopaths and guilt- or horror-ridden veterans; nor would the rest of the world, I expect. Dog bites man. Not exactly news. But none of that is evidence - legal or even reasonable in an extralegal context - that such things are systemic or endemic within the IDF.

We Americans, too, have seen similar pronouncements from various US-based 'Veterans Against the War' initiatives and organizations; dealing with PTSD, guilt (real and misplaced, etc.), and their own political agendas.

Such testimony should always be granted an audience and carefully considered, but does not, ipso facto, translate either into (1) Truth or (2) Accuracy or (3) incontrovertible substantiating evidence that such practices are systemic or endemic or institutionalized.

The organizations gathering and spin-doctoring such testimony should ALSO be placed under a very close scrutiny when making such judgments, with respect to their status as liberal-leaning human-rights or peace-activist organizations, or actual subversive organizations, or sincere domestic efforts, especially when those organizations receive tons of funding from overseas and external sources, lending an air of questionable motives and agenda to their operations, as is the case with this particular NGO...

Breaking the Silence (non-governmental organization) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This does not mean that some or even all of the testimonies advanced by this particular NGO are not accurate or true, in whole or in part. It merely means that they need to be filtered through a more holistic lens, without blindly accepting such things as operative.

"...Of course, for some Jews such behavior applies equally to their own children... "A month after... Kristallnacht... Ben Gurion... "
Straw-Man argument, and non sequitur in the context of modern-day IDF policy; unless one of your NGO boys or girls testifies that they've seen documentation pertaining to such official high-level policy or heard official high-level policy pronouncements to that effect.
 
"...In the year 2000, 91 Palestinian children were killed by Israel. During that time no Israeli children were killed.

Of those 91 Palestinian children killed by Israel 48 were shot in the head.

This looks more like policy than accidents.
"
A Palestinian child shot in the head is more likely to die than a Palestinian child shot in the arm or hand or leg or foot.

How many Palestinian children suffered gunshot wounds that may reliably be attributed to the IDF in an intentional-shooting scenario during that same sampling timeframe?

How many Palestinian children suffereed headshot wounds with that same attribution during that same timeframe?

In truth, you need those two data-points, at a bare-bones minimum, before you can even BEGIN to start slinging-about such accusations, and to have your assertion given serious consideration.

This is a messy and unpleasant and heartbreaking subtopic but if you choose to capitalize upon such deaths for political points and to advance such assertions, then you must satisfy at least the bare-bone basics with respect to a sampling deck, before you can logically posit such a possibility, in pursuit of your propaganda goals.
 
Last edited:
"...In the year 2000, 91 Palestinian children were killed by Israel. During that time no Israeli children were killed.

Of those 91 Palestinian children killed by Israel 48 were shot in the head.

This looks more like policy than accidents.
"
A Palestinian child shot in the head is more likely to die than a Palestinian child shot in the arm or hand or leg or foot.

How many Palestinian children suffered gunshot wounds that may reliably be attributed to the IDF in an intentional-shooting scenario during that same sampling timeframe?

How many Palestinian children suffereed headshot wounds with that same attribution during that same timeframe?

In truth, you need those two data-points, at a bare-bones minimum, before you can even BEGIN to start slinging-about such accusations, and to have your assertion given serious consideration.

This is a messy and unpleasant and heartbreaking subtopic but if you choose to capitalize upon such deaths for political points and to advance such assertions, then you must satisfy at least the bare-bone basics with respect to a sampling deck, before you can logically posit such a possibility, in pursuit of your propaganda goals.

Most, not all, were killed at unarmed demonstrations. There were no militants present so there were no crossfire, human shield, or friendly fire incidents.
 
"...In the year 2000, 91 Palestinian children were killed by Israel. During that time no Israeli children were killed.

Of those 91 Palestinian children killed by Israel 48 were shot in the head.

This looks more like policy than accidents.
"
A Palestinian child shot in the head is more likely to die than a Palestinian child shot in the arm or hand or leg or foot.

How many Palestinian children suffered gunshot wounds that may reliably be attributed to the IDF in an intentional-shooting scenario during that same sampling timeframe?

How many Palestinian children suffereed headshot wounds with that same attribution during that same timeframe?

In truth, you need those two data-points, at a bare-bones minimum, before you can even BEGIN to start slinging-about such accusations, and to have your assertion given serious consideration.

This is a messy and unpleasant and heartbreaking subtopic but if you choose to capitalize upon such deaths for political points and to advance such assertions, then you must satisfy at least the bare-bone basics with respect to a sampling deck, before you can logically posit such a possibility, in pursuit of your propaganda goals.

Most, not all, were killed at unarmed demonstrations. There were no militants present so there were no crossfire, human shield, or friendly fire incidents.

Unarmed demonstrations? :lol:

So they didn't have knives, rocks, slingshots or guns? How do you know?
 
"...In the year 2000, 91 Palestinian children were killed by Israel. During that time no Israeli children were killed.

Of those 91 Palestinian children killed by Israel 48 were shot in the head.

This looks more like policy than accidents.
"
A Palestinian child shot in the head is more likely to die than a Palestinian child shot in the arm or hand or leg or foot.

How many Palestinian children suffered gunshot wounds that may reliably be attributed to the IDF in an intentional-shooting scenario during that same sampling timeframe?

How many Palestinian children suffereed headshot wounds with that same attribution during that same timeframe?

In truth, you need those two data-points, at a bare-bones minimum, before you can even BEGIN to start slinging-about such accusations, and to have your assertion given serious consideration.

This is a messy and unpleasant and heartbreaking subtopic but if you choose to capitalize upon such deaths for political points and to advance such assertions, then you must satisfy at least the bare-bone basics with respect to a sampling deck, before you can logically posit such a possibility, in pursuit of your propaganda goals.

Most, not all, were killed at unarmed demonstrations. There were no militants present so there were no crossfire, human shield, or friendly fire incidents.
That does not answer either of the two bare-bones Data Points ('How many'?), above, which are required to begin to objectively begin to substantiate claims of 'policy'.

But, as a sideline...

Did all or most of those 'demonstrations' turn into 'riots', in which the crowd threw explosives or molotov cocktails or rocks and bricks, or fired shots, etc., at police or IDF forces?

If so, were such wounds suffered as a result of police or IDF fire at the crowds in response to such hostile actions?

Were some of these 'demonstrations' of such a nature and outcome, or most, or all?

Both the motivations and the frequency are unclear in what you've provided so far.

And do you have a link to this 'most attributable to demonstrations' assertion, to borrow a frequently-used tactic from your own playbook, which reliably and objectively asserts that 'most' of these wounds were suffered in such scenarios?

You can contemplate such things while you scramble for credible answers to the two 'How Many?' questions which will serve to begin to substantiate your suggestion that these head-shots are 'policy'.
 
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Oh, and, finally, Tinny, while you're scrambling for some credible supporting data, for both the headshot-policy issue, and the 'unarmed demonstrations' assertion...

What-the-hell were those poor kids doing, mixed-up in demonstrations (confrontations, likely to turn into riots) against the Israeli police or IDF in the first place?

What-in-the-world were those parents thinking - allowing their kids to attend such events?

More like WERE the parents thinking?

Quite possibly, not.

All-the-more tragic, and ironically and entirely preventable, if true.
 
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"...See if you can focus on eyewitness testimony and first-hand confessions from some Jews who find war crimes more psychopathic than you apparently do..."
I, too, find many war-crimes to be reprehensible, and I, too, as a parent, perceive the intentional targeting of innocent children to be despicable and indefensible.

We differ greatly with respect to...

1. what constitutes a war-crime, in this context...

2. what constitutes a 'child', in this context...

3. the context in which such injuries occurred...

4. the scale in comparison to all child-related injuries...

5. the objectivity with which such Intentions or Motivation are attributed...

6. whether it is accurate to label these as systemic or endemic rather than isolated or limited in scope

"...The article began: 'On just one day last week staff at the El-Arish hospital in Sinai were called to perform sophisticated CAT brain scans on a nine-year-old, two 10-year-olds and a 14-year-old ? each of whom had a bullet still lodged in their brain, after coming under fire during the Israeli ground assault on Gaza.'..."
* Is it certain that it was an IDF round (rather than a Hamas round) responsible for each injury?

* Where were each of these children at the time they were shot? Home? Shelter? Street? School? Mosque? Store? Other?

* If they were within a structure, was that structure used by (or suspected of being used by) Hamas at the time they were shot?

* If they were on the street, where were their parents and why were they allowed to be present in such danger zones?

* What were each of these children doing at the time they were shot? Anything hostile?

* Were any of them participating in a riot that was suppressed by small-arms fire?

* Were any of them caught-up in a legitimate military firefight and got in the way?

* Was fire directed at them individually or as part of blanket-fire against an adversary?

So many things we don't know about each of those four cases.

And, of course the Big Math Question...

* What percentage of ALL child-injuries due to small-arms fire that day were those four (4) head shots?

If there were 100 child injuries from gunshot that day, then those four would represent 4%.

If there were 4 child injuries from gunshot that day, then those four would represent 100%.

The 100% (or any high) number would be indicative of an intentional headshot targeting or one heulluvan unlikely coincidence.

The 4% (or lower) number would be indicative of absolutely nothing.

Neither your UK Telegraph article nor anything else that you've provided here serve to supply us with the richer context that we need in order to arrive at the conclusion that these children were intentionally targeted for head-shots. Much more is required in order to substantiate such a claim, within the realm of pattern-analysis, even while conceding the point that not ALL such questions may prove answer-able, and that we may be obliged to deduce one or two of the data points based upon a richer data set than you have heretofore supplied.


Yes, Doctor, as a Scientist and Man of Truth and Honesty first, and a Palestinian second, you, too, realize that you cannot reliably decide such matters, based upon the scanty evidence in your possession, and absent the sort of data bullet-pointed earlier, above.


One of the dumbest things that I've ever heard out of the mouth of a credentialed scientist.

Of COURSE the gun was pointed directly at the child!

It would be a little difficult for the round to hit the child if the gun had been pointed AWAY from the child, wouldn't it, Doctor?

The supplemental and salient questions here are:

* In each such case, WHY was the gun pointed towards the child?

* In each such case, was it intentional or simply part of a broader fire-mission/firefight?

* In each such case, WHOSE gun WAS it?

We do not appear to know the answers to these important questions, based upon the data provided in the article.

Also, note that the Doctor said 'SOME of these cases'... I mean, Good Lord - there are only four (4) cases total in this sampling deck to consider... and SOME means less than ALL... so we're certainly looking at fewer than four (4)... how many kids in a 'SOME', Doctor? 1? 2? 3? Is that a sufficiently sampling-deck to make any sort of judgment call as to cause and effect and intentions?

In actuality, the Doctor told the truth, as he saw it, and then propaganda-shills and disinterested journalists 'fluffed-up' this sparse data, to try to self-declare or strongly hint-at a Trend or Pattern, when an objective and dispassionate analysis of the data at-hand indicates no such Trend or Pattern to-date.

Both your sampling deck and the requisite context-data are grossly inadequate to the task of substantiating a Trend or Pattern here.

Sorry.

"...'Israeli soldiers in a group called 'Breaking the Silence' have provided chilling testimonies about Israeli military culture; the titles alone tell a great deal. Following are a few:'The battalion commander ordered us to shoot anyone trying to remove the bodies', 'The commander of the navy commandos put the muzzle of the rifle into the man’s mouth', 'They told us to shoot at anybody moving in the street', 'You can do whatever you feel like, nobody is going to question it.'”
Yes.

War, including ongoing guerrilla and urban warfare and ongoing border confrontation and adversary-suppression is a nasty and bloody business and forever affects those who participate on both sides.

In Vietnam, US troops perpetrated the My Lai Massacre, and a fair number of other atrocities. In Afghanistan, Soviet troops perpetrated several massacres and atrocities. In virtually every war (declared and undeclared, ongoing or sporadic, mainstream forces or guerrilla) there are atrocities and wrongdoings.

Soldiers are obliged to harden their hearts in order to kill their fellow man; some take to this grudgingly, some easily; many are traumatized by their own experiences and actions and cannot live with the guilt or memories. And, oftentimes, this is with respect to troops fighting enemies who are NOT suicide-bombing and and mortaring and rocket-barraging their own wives and children and parents.

I would not be surprised in the slightest to learn that the IDF contains its own fair share of both sociopaths and guilt- or horror-ridden veterans; nor would the rest of the world, I expect. Dog bites man. Not exactly news. But none of that is evidence - legal or even reasonable in an extralegal context - that such things are systemic or endemic within the IDF.

We Americans, too, have seen similar pronouncements from various US-based 'Veterans Against the War' initiatives and organizations; dealing with PTSD, guilt (real and misplaced, etc.), and their own political agendas.

Such testimony should always be granted an audience and carefully considered, but does not, ipso facto, translate either into (1) Truth or (2) Accuracy or (3) incontrovertible substantiating evidence that such practices are systemic or endemic or institutionalized.

The organizations gathering and spin-doctoring such testimony should ALSO be placed under a very close scrutiny when making such judgments, with respect to their status as liberal-leaning human-rights or peace-activist organizations, or actual subversive organizations, or sincere domestic efforts, especially when those organizations receive tons of funding from overseas and external sources, lending an air of questionable motives and agenda to their operations, as is the case with this particular NGO...

Breaking the Silence (non-governmental organization) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This does not mean that some or even all of the testimonies advanced by this particular NGO are not accurate or true, in whole or in part. It merely means that they need to be filtered through a more holistic lens, without blindly accepting such things as operative.

"...Of course, for some Jews such behavior applies equally to their own children... "A month after... Kristallnacht... Ben Gurion... "
Straw-Man argument, and non sequitur in the context of modern-day IDF policy; unless one of your NGO boys or girls testifies that they've seen documentation pertaining to such official high-level policy or heard official high-level policy pronouncements to that effect.
Starting from the top.
Do we agree Israel is the Occupying Power in Palestine?
If so...


"Article 50 - Care and education of children [hide]
Art. 50. The Occupying Power shall, with the cooperation of the national and local authorities, facilitate the proper working of all institutions devoted to the care and education of children.

"The Occupying Power shall take all necessary steps to facilitate the identification of children and the registration of their parentage. It may not, in any case, change their personal status, nor enlist them in formations or organizations subordinate to it.

"Should the local institutions be inadequate for the purpose, the Occupying Power shall make arrangements for the maintenance and education, if possible by persons of their own nationality, language and religion, of children who are orphaned or separated from their parents as a result of the war and who cannot be adequately cared for by a near relative or friend.

"A special section of the Bureau set up in accordance with Article 136 shall be responsible for taking all necessary steps to identify children whose identity is in doubt. Particulars of their parents or other near relatives should always be recorded if available.

"The Occupying Power shall not hinder the application of any preferential measures in regard to food, medical care and protection against the effects of war which may have been adopted prior to the occupation in favour of children under fifteen years, expectant mothers, and mothers of children under seven years"

Fourth Geneva Convention - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

See anything you dispute?
 
"...Starting from the top..."
You have made zero attempt to address any of the data-deficiencies which you left behind, and which you were called upon to address; attempting, instead, and failing, to deflect attention and energy away from those deficiencies by pursuing another path.

Consequently, you (1) may consider your deficiencies of data to remain unresolved and extant, (2) may consider your assertions linked to those deficiencies to remain unproven, and (3) may expect no cooperation from me in allowing you to deflect attention away from those deficiencies.

This smacks of Intellectual Cowardice; pray, disabuse myself (and others?) of that notion.

I, and many others as well, I'm sure, will be happy to discuss the Legal Status of the West Bank or Gaza, in any of a wide variety of settings, and all that attends, afterwards.

But not as a virtual non-sequitur departure from the sort of questions asked of you here in recent hours, pertaining to allegations of intentional child-targeting on the part of the IDF et al.

Steady-down, and stop wandering.
 
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"...Starting from the top..."
You have made zero attempt to address any of the data-deficiencies which you left behind, and which you were called upon to address; attempting, instead, and failing, to deflect attention and energy away from those deficiencies by pursuing another path.

Consequently, you (1) may consider your deficiencies of data to remain unresolved and extant, (2) may consider your assertions linked to those deficiencies to remain unproven, and (3) may expect no cooperation from me in allowing you to deflect attention away from those deficiencies.

This smacks of Intellectual Cowardice; pray, disabuse myself (and others?) of that notion.

I, and many others as well, I'm sure, will be happy to discuss the Legal Status of the West Bank or Gaza, in any of a wide variety of settings, and all that attends, afterwards.

But not as a virtual non-sequitur departure from the sort of questions asked of you here in recent hours, pertaining to allegations of intentional child-targeting on the part of the IDF et al.

Steady-down, and stop wandering.
Why are you afraid to define "child" and "occupying power?"
Are you timid?
 
Why are you afraid to define "child" and "occupying power?" Are you timid?

I am neither afraid nor timid in that context.

However, these are not the particulars at-issue.

Once you have substantively addressed some of the questions being asked of you in Post No. 127...
...in pursuit of your own earlier assertions about intentional harm inflicted upon children, then I will be happy to reciprocate and deal with other matters.

But UNTIL you address some of the questions being asked of you in Post No. 127, I will be unable to pursue a tangential line of thought which provides you with a metaphorical Escape Hatch.

YOU were the one to raise the intentional child-harm issue here, and provided citations in support of same.

When you were prompted in Post No 127 to provide substance in support of your anecdotal testimony, you began to act in an elusive and evasive fashion, to avoid providing such data in support of your contention.

Or is it that you CANNOT support your assertion with anything beyond the realm of one-sided anecdotal evidence, and lack the Intellectual Courage to admit as much?

The choice is yours.

Either you can back up your assertions with better data and context, or you cannot.

Which is it?

1. "Here is my additional data, context and related interpretations and reasoning..."

...or...

2. "OK. Ya got me. I didn't have anything else on-hand to back up that assertion. My bad."

Shall we simply assume that (2) is operative, or are you prepared to address those deficiencies in your evidence with better data and context, from credible sources?

Have you been Pwned again, or are you gonna take a stand for your own assertions?
 
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15th post
Why are you afraid to define "child" and "occupying power?" Are you timid?

I am neither afraid nor timid in that context.

However, these are not the particulars at-issue.

Once you have substantively addressed some of the questions being asked of you in Post No. 127...
...in pursuit of your own earlier assertions about intentional harm inflicted upon children, then I will be happy to reciprocate and deal with other matters.

But UNTIL you address some of the questions being asked of you in Post No. 127, I will be unable to pursue a tangential line of thought which provides you with a metaphorical Escape Hatch.

YOU were the one to raise the intentional child-harm issue here, and provided citations in support of same.

When you were prompted in Post No 127 to provide substance in support of your anecdotal testimony, you began to act in an elusive and evasive fashion, to avoid providing such data in support of your contention.

Or is it that you CANNOT support your assertion with anything beyond the realm of one-sided anecdotal evidence, and lack the Intellectual Courage to admit as much?

The choice is yours.

Either you can back up your assertions with better data and context, or you cannot.

Which is it?

1. "Here is my additional data, context and related interpretations and reasoning..."

...or...

2. "OK. Ya got me. I didn't have anything else on-hand to back up that assertion. My bad."

Shall we simply assume that (2) is operative, or are you prepared to address those deficiencies in your evidence with better data and context, from credible sources?

Have you been Pwned again, or are you gonna take a stand for your own assertions?
Your post #127 begins with six points you allege "we differ greatly with respect to."
1. what constitutes a war-crime, in this context...
2. what constitutes a 'child', in this context...

In order to determine a war crime in this context would we not have to agree on whether Israel is or is not an occupying power in Gaza?

We would have to agree on a definition of child.
Mine is 15 years or less.
What about you?

We would also have to discuss "credible sources"
I suspect that would be a good place to start.

B'Tselem | The Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories?
 
"...Your post #127 begins with six points you allege "we differ greatly with respect to.

1. what constitutes a war-crime, in this context...

2. what constitutes a 'child', in this context...
The deliberate targeting of a child might very well constitute a war-crime, if committed during the course of combat operations or related guerrilla operations, or as part of violent events of an insurrectionist nature.

The legal context (occupation status) for such harming can safely be set aside until such time as it may be reasonably ascertained whether such harm was inflicted intentionally.

It will not eventually help the case for occupation-powers shortcomings, when we contemplate the culpability of the populous and the proximity of their war-assets and combatant and insurrectionist activities and the effect this has on the ability of an occupying power to exercise reasonable precautions in accordance with such law governing such situations.

But that's for another time.

First, we need to establish (1) responsibility and (2) context, along with supporting data, to substantiate allegations of Patterns and Trends of such behaviors, indicative of widespread policies or practices which a reasonable person would construe to be eligible for consideration as an intentional act which might be charge-able as a war-crime.

First things first, which is why I've been trying to keep us on-track with respect to Post No. 127, because we need some answers along those lines, in order to continue moving forward with your earlier assertions.

A 'child' can best be defined as an under-age (pick an age... 15, 16, 17, below 18 anyway) person who cannot be reasonably construed as a combatant or participant in hostilities or insurrectionist activities.

If a child is harmed while engaged in combat operations or participating in a riot, then that child may be said to have lost the protections that childhood would otherwise guarantee.

It's an ugly, cold and harsh truth, but that is the way of things, all across the world.

"...We would also have to discuss 'credible sources'..."
* Any 3rd party with no stake in such investigations nor findings nor outcomes.

* Any 3rd party without a mission or history heavily favoring one side or the other.

* Any 3rd party that has sought-out and obtained and investigated both sides of the story with what reasonably seems to be equal energy and objectivity towards both sides.

* Any party not linked to Jewish-Israeli nor Muslim-Arab-Palestinian traditions nor interests.

* Any party not tasked nor funded by another organization heavily weighted towards one side or another; so as to avoid any risk of subservience or Front-Man or Mouthpiece status.

And, frankly, I'm not sure such can be found, but...

Given the old maxim: "The perfect is the enemy of the good"...

Citations from sources which may reasonably be argued as relatively free from bias and who have heard and weighed both sides, certainly sounds like an excellent place to start.
 
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A Palestinian child shot in the head is more likely to die than a Palestinian child shot in the arm or hand or leg or foot.

How many Palestinian children suffered gunshot wounds that may reliably be attributed to the IDF in an intentional-shooting scenario during that same sampling timeframe?

How many Palestinian children suffereed headshot wounds with that same attribution during that same timeframe?

In truth, you need those two data-points, at a bare-bones minimum, before you can even BEGIN to start slinging-about such accusations, and to have your assertion given serious consideration.

This is a messy and unpleasant and heartbreaking subtopic but if you choose to capitalize upon such deaths for political points and to advance such assertions, then you must satisfy at least the bare-bone basics with respect to a sampling deck, before you can logically posit such a possibility, in pursuit of your propaganda goals.

Most, not all, were killed at unarmed demonstrations. There were no militants present so there were no crossfire, human shield, or friendly fire incidents.
That does not answer either of the two bare-bones Data Points ('How many'?), above, which are required to begin to objectively begin to substantiate claims of 'policy'.

But, as a sideline...

Did all or most of those 'demonstrations' turn into 'riots', in which the crowd threw explosives or molotov cocktails or rocks and bricks, or fired shots, etc., at police or IDF forces?

If so, were such wounds suffered as a result of police or IDF fire at the crowds in response to such hostile actions?

Were some of these 'demonstrations' of such a nature and outcome, or most, or all?

Both the motivations and the frequency are unclear in what you've provided so far.

And do you have a link to this 'most attributable to demonstrations' assertion, to borrow a frequently-used tactic from your own playbook, which reliably and objectively asserts that 'most' of these wounds were suffered in such scenarios?

You can contemplate such things while you scramble for credible answers to the two 'How Many?' questions which will serve to begin to substantiate your suggestion that these head-shots are 'policy'.

Did all or most of those 'demonstrations' turn into 'riots',

Not until the Israeli goons showed up with their attack on the people.
 
"...Not until the Israeli goons showed up with their attack on the people."
That's a fine sentiment and generality, Tinny, but hardly credible substantive data in support of your earlier assertions about 'policy', nor even a credible and objective account of one such event, never mind the multiple events that you alluded to, with respect to those headshots.
 
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