Ultrasemitism

[Cassandro]

Can we agree that "Zion" and its derivatives refers to Israel and that "Semitic" and its derivatives refers to Jewish people?

 

[rosends]

You mean to avoid using it incorrectly? If that's a concern then tell me how do you avoid using "antisemite" incorrectly? Does Lisa558 concur? should she concur? do you care either way?

I don't know how she, or you is using the word. I try to stick with the IHRA definition and application until I get a better one.

What is antisemitism? | IHRA working definition

What is antisemitism? The IHRA working definition helps governments, educators, and institutions identify and counter antisemitism all over the world.

holocaustremembrance.com

What definition are you using?

 

[westwall]

Your ultrasemitism is so deeply entrenched that logic and reason have no meaning for you, they are just inconveniences.

If a Jew can call Israel "Jew supremacist" and the government as a "Zionist regime" then so can I. I have no less rights to say such things than has Noam Chomsky, or Norman Finkelstein and many many other Jews.

Poor rumphole, you are a failure at everything.

 

[Lisa558]

Can we agree that "Zion" and its derivatives refers to Israel and that "Semitic" and its derivatives refers to Jewish people?

I agree with that.

 

[rosends]

Your ultrasemitism is so deeply entrenched that logic and reason have no meaning for you, they are just inconveniences.

If a Jew can call Israel "Jew supremacist" and the government as a "Zionist regime" then so can I. I have no less rights to say such things than has Noam Chomsky, or Norman Finkelstein and many many other Jews.

And those Jews, through an application of a standard definition of the term (like the IHRA definition) are then using anti-semitic language also. Being Jewish doesn't change the parameters of the definition.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Idiot. He didn’t merely criticize Israel. He called it a Jew Supremacy state and that “we” should have another Third Reich to wipe Isrsel off the map.

But there's no post proving your accusation true is there, that's the problem with lies.

HAMAS just murdered six Jewish hostages, and the antisemites are praising Hitler’s approach to the Jews.

You are quite sickening woman, there's no post anywhere in this form where I expressed praise for Adolf Hitler.

You’re the dumbest one of the forum. You are in no position to judge what is antisemitic, but I’ll give you a hint: when someone says we should bring back Hitler - and says so in the very day that Jew-hating terrorists just killed six more Jewish hostages - he’s an antisemite.

There we are, extreme ultrasemitism, making up accusations of hatred and then using those lies to justify labelling me as "antisemitic".

Tell me Lisa (because rosends is too frightened to ask you) what is the definition of antisemitism that you use?

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

I don't know how she, or you is using the word. I try to stick with the IHRA definition and application until I get a better one.

What is antisemitism? | IHRA working definition

What is antisemitism? The IHRA working definition helps governments, educators, and institutions identify and counter antisemitism all over the world.

holocaustremembrance.com

What definition are you using?

That definition though is inherently ultrasemitic, you should stop using it.

 

[JGalt]

It was a Nationalist German State that cruelly and systematically exterminated six million Jews, perhaps you've not heard of the holocaust?

Hey, shit happens. If Israel wants to exterminate six million radical Muslim extremists, they have my blessings.

The forces of globalism and communism have a much bigger body count.

 

[Billo_Really]

Idiot. He didn’t merely criticize Israel. He called it a Jew Supremacy state and that “we” should have another Third Reich to wipe Isrsel off the map.

HAMAS just murdered six Jewish hostages, and the antisemites are praising Hitler’s approach to the Jews.

You’re the dumbest one of the forum. You are in no position to judge what is antisemitic, but I’ll give you a hint: when someone says we should bring back Hitler - and says so in the very day that Jew-hating terrorists just killed six more Jewish hostages - he’s an antisemite.

It is not possible to wipe a country with nuclear weapons off the face of the planet! So stop acting like it can happen!

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

It is not possible to wipe a country with nuclear weapons off the face of the planet! So stop acting like it can happen!

Ask to see the post where she believes I said such things, she's ignoring me when I ask. This is a core feature of the ultrasemite, the distortion of a person's words in order to create a pretext for calling them an antisemite - their freedom to insult is more important than the facts.

 

[JGalt]

You referred to Israel not only as the “Zionist Regime,” but as the “Jew Supremacist state” - and then suggested we have another Third Reich.

Nobody but a stark-raving antisemite would refer to Israel that way. You don’t get to smear Israel with phrases like that and then feign righteous indignation when you’re called out on your Jew hate.

Another one for the Bear Jew. That guy sure gets a lot of business.

 

[Billo_Really]

Also….the fact that you focus on Isrsel’s so-called atrocities without a WORD about the true atrocities committed by the Muslim terrorists is the double standard that “outs” you as an antisemite.

But that is not true! I have condemned a lot more Muslim terrorists than you have Israeli actions.

You, on the other hand, excuse every Israeli atrocity under the sun! The IDF can murder a pregnant Palestinian woman and cut out the unborn baby from her stomach and you will just look the other way?

 

[rosends]

That definition though is inherently ultrasemitic, you should stop using it.

See, that's the problem. You haven't presented any other definition and have decided that you don't like the one I suggested. So you still lack any definition by which one can assess a sample statement.

 

[Billo_Really]

Ask to see the post where she believes I said such things, she's ignoring me when I ask. This is a core feature of the ultrasemite, the distortion of a person's words in order to create a pretext for calling them an antisemite - their freedom to insult is more important than the facts.

My criticism is with the Israeli right. Not the Israeli left and certainly not with Jews. I could care less what name people call God. Jews are not the problem. The Israeli right, is a different subject.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

See, that's the problem. You haven't presented any other definition and have decided that you don't like the one I suggested. So you still lack any definition by which one can assess a sample statement.

The IHRA definition is ultrasemitic:

1. Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.

That's ultrasemitic, it seeks to legitimize any racism that might be present in Israeli policies by making it impossible to say that there's racism in Israeli policies. The definition implies that it is impossible for Israel to be a racist state. In fact it goes further and implies that the Jewish right to self determination includes the right for the state to enact racist practices.

1. Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.

That's ultrasemitic, seeks to imply that it's impossible for the state of Israel to adopt policies that have parallels in Nazi Germany's history.

These things are far from impossible though and so why prevent people from speaking of them if they witness them? what good is served by protecting a government from criticism?

How could a person speak of them if they were true? if Israel was a racist endeavor or if Israel did parallel certain aspects of Nazism, how would one talk about this?

Sorry rosends you can't fool all of the people all of the time, your world is like a Kafka novel.

 

[marvin martian]

I'm propose use of the term "ultrasemitism" to denote the unjustified abuse of falsely labelling a non-Jewish person of being an antisemite.

Jews who are ultrasemitic must be called out, exposed for everyone to see the levels to which they are willing to stop in order to discredit critics of Jewish state nationalism as it operates in Israel.

There's been lots of ultrasemitic posting in this form and I'd venture to wager these far outnumber the number of genuinely antisemitic posts of which I've seen no examples frankly.

Direct me to some of the posts you believe are "genuinely antisemitic".

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Direct me to some of the posts you believe are "genuinely antisemitic".

I've seen none, that's what I said:

...far outnumber the number of genuinely antisemitic posts of which I've seen no examples frankly.

I've asked Lisa558 to show me some, she has not done so. In a forum purportedly littered with antisemitism and Jew hatred it should be easy to show us examples of these, but curiously there doesn't seem to actually be any.

See the problem? no antisemitic posts yet lots of accusations that people are making antisemitic posts - kind of twilight zone.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Another one for the Bear Jew. That guy sure gets a lot of business.

Ahh yes, another Tarantino violence exhibition, just what the world needs.

 

[rosends]

The IHRA definition is ultrasemitic:

no, it isn't. See how easy it is to say that?

That's ultrasemitic, it seeks to legitimize any racism that might be present in Israeli policies by making it impossible to say that there's racism in Israeli policies. The definition implies that it is impossible for Israel to be a racist state.

Then you misunderstand the definition. This isn't about whether there is any racism in policies, but whether the idea of the state is a racist endeavor. If you don't understand that distinction then maybe a discussion is beyond you.

That's ultrasemitic, seeks to imply that it's impossible for the state of Israel to adopt policies that have parallels in Nazi Germany's history.

No, using the ideas from Nazism as a template against which to compare specifically Israeli policies is anti-semitic for a few different reasons (not the least of which is the trivializing of the Holocaust).

These things are far from impossible though and so why prevent people from speaking of them if they witness them? what good is served by protecting a government from criticism?

How could a person speak of them if they were true? if Israel was a racist endeavor or if Israel did parallel certain aspects of Nazism, how would one talk about this?

Sorry rosends you can't fool all of the people all of the time, your world is like a Kafka novel.

Sorry but you can't hide behind your own limited understanding and try to label the world through the lens of wilfull ignorance.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

no, it isn't. See how easy it is to say that?

Not as easy as it is here to say "You're an antisemite".

Then you misunderstand the definition. This isn't about whether there is any racism in policies, but whether the idea of the state is a racist endeavor. If you don't understand that distinction then maybe a discussion is beyond you.

What if the state of Israel was or became a racist endeavor? how could I draw attention to that without embracing antisemitism?

No, using the ideas from Nazism as a template against which to compare specifically Israeli policies is anti-semitic for a few different reasons (not the least of which is the trivializing of the Holocaust).

What if the state of Israel enacted policies that had once operated under the Nazis, if one witnessed that was happening, then why shy away from comparing it to the Nazis? Zionists compare Hamas to the Nazis all the time not only is that ludicrous (and itself a form of holocaust denial) it seems to imply that Zionists be granted privileges not afforded to non-Zionists? (which lets face it is a decent definition of Zionist!)

The Zionist can use any language and metaphors they want but not non-Zionists and those that "break" the "rules" must be singled out and face the consequences of being called an "antisemitic Jew hater".

I do not submit to your rules that allow you to compare anyone you like with the Nazis but restricts to whom I can make the same comparison.

Your entire privileged perception and sense of entitlement is what characterizes ultrasemitism and it has to stop.