Ukraine war

[Deadstick]

These were legitimate, internationally recognized parts of Ukraine. What the Russians recognized was irrelevant.


Serbia was committing genocide, something the Ukrainians were never accused of doing. So not analogous.

The Serbs were accused of Genocide by the usual suspects, but there was no genocide, there was a savage civil war with crimes on all sides, but according to the West everything was the Serbs fault, the fact is the West wanted Yugoslavia gone and didn't care how they got it, they sided with Bosnian Islamo fascists and Croat Ustashi fascists, then they used the Srebrenica scam as another excuse to attack Serbs, if you want to see what genocide looks like check out Naser Oric the Bosnian muslim Nazi.

 

[alang1216]

Well he didn't have chance to implement it, thats the whole point, Yarosh and the fascists backed by the US and it's vassals didn't want it implemented becuse they may not have had the result from the next election they wanted, so they went into lynch mob mode that is why Yanukovych left.

The Serbs were accused of Genocide by the usual suspects, but there was no genocide, there was a savage civil war with crimes on all sides, but according to the West everything was the Serbs fault, the fact is the West wanted Yugoslavia gone and didn't care how they got it, they sided with Bosnian Islamo fascists and Croat Ustashi fascists, then they used the Srebrenica scam as another excuse to attack Serbs, if you want to see what genocide looks like check out Naser Oric the Bosnian muslim Nazi.

Lots of accusations and speculations and a complete lack of supporting evidence.

 

[alang1216]

Well he didn't have chance to implement it, thats the whole point, Yarosh and the fascists backed by the US and it's vassals didn't want it implemented becuse they may not have had the result from the next election they wanted, so they went into lynch mob mode that is why Yanukovych left.

Each side has their own version of events. I have some trust in what Western gov'ts say and zero trust in what Russia says.

 

[Silver Cat]

Actually they can't produce their own tanks since they can't manufacture the electronics that modern tanks require. Most of the tanks they use in Ukraine are much older models pulled from storage.

Actually, they do produce their own brand-new tanks from scratch, as well as they do produce their own electronics, as well as they upgrade their older models with electronics imported from the USA and France, mostly via India, because there is no big difference between Indian T-90S and Russian T-90MS (actually it is the same tank). Say nothing about Chinese electronics.

Their 'actual' wealth is in the form of natural resources, like oil and natural gas they possess. Like other 3rd world countries, they sell their raw materials abroad and import manufactured goods.

Not only. They do produce many useful things for themselves and they do sell such hi-tech goods like nuclear plants, weapons, soft and other.

So your sources are a non-Ukrainian and a Ukrainian who died almost 65 years ago. Not very convincing.

Actually, there are more than enough of Ukrainian sources in the net, Litwin is just a good example of their propagandists. Or, you can ask ESay , who is a Ukrainian, but who believes, that the ethnic Russians (and laymen of Ukrainian Orthodox Church) must be discriminated.

There was plenty of evidence of Serbian genocide before NATO got involved. I have not seen such evidence from Russia.

Evidence? From Clinton's paid liars? In the post-WWII world order UN SC only was supposed to evaluate evidence. Russia and China didn't agree that there was any real evidence of Serbian genocide. Therefore, from their point of view, NATO's aggression against Serbia was both unprovoked and non legit, and turned post-WWII world order into pre-WWIII world order.

 

[Silver Cat]

Each side has their own version of events. I have some trust in what Western gov'ts say and zero trust in what Russia says.

Yes. The problem of trust is the central problem of any possible world order. That's why post-WWII world order was not supposed to build Paradise (and defend everyone). It was supposed to prevent Hell (WWIII). Which means - there shouldn't be a violation of the vital interest of any of the permanent members of UN SC (the USA, the UK, France, Russia and China).

 

[Deadstick]

Each side has their own version of events. I have some trust in what Western gov'ts say and zero trust in what Russia says.

That is the problem you have a opinion set in stone because the western politicians say so, the fact is the day after that deal was signed the extremists attacked Government buildings and the house of Yanukovych, they were a lynch mob.

 

[alang1216]

Yes. The problem of trust is the central problem of any possible world order. That's why post-WWII world order was not supposed to build Paradise (and defend everyone). It was supposed to prevent Hell (WWIII). Which means - there shouldn't be a violation of the vital interest of any of the permanent members of UN SC (the USA, the UK, France, Russia and China).

And of course what is a 'vital interest' is determined by each member for itself. What happens when vital interests collide?

 

[alang1216]

That is the problem you have a opinion set in stone because the western politicians say so, the fact is the day after that deal was signed the extremists attacked Government buildings and the house of Yanukovych, they were a lynch mob.

Every country has its extremist lynch mobs. The US had its own on Jan 6.

 

[alang1216]

The Serbs were accused of Genocide by the usual suspects, but there was no genocide, there was a savage civil war with crimes on all sides, but according to the West everything was the Serbs fault, the fact is the West wanted Yugoslavia gone and didn't care how they got it, they sided with Bosnian Islamo fascists and Croat Ustashi fascists, then they used the Srebrenica scam as another excuse to attack Serbs,

Human Rights Watch tells a different story

if you want to see what genocide looks like check out Naser Oric the Bosnian muslim Nazi.

You mean the guy who was just acquitted?

Bosnia Acquits Srebrenica Commander Naser Oric at Retrial​

 

[Silver Cat]

And of course what is a 'vital interest' is determined by each member for itself. What happens when vital interests collide?

When the actually vital interests (Soviet missiles in Cuba were a vital threat for the USA, and American missiles in Turkey were a vital threat for Russia) actully collide - then, yes, the war is inevitable, and even UN can't prevent it. But, if there is a possible mutually acceptable solution (like Russia removes missiles from Cuba and the USA removes missiles from Turkey), then, it's much safer and cheaper to find it in a discussion, rather then in a local conflict, proxy war, or even in the actual all-out war . The world in which Russia could prevent Clinton's agression against Serbia, or America could prevent Putin's SMO in Ukraine just by a signing a paper, without sending actual weapons and killing actual human beings, might be much more safer for everyone.

 

[alang1216]

When the actually vital interests (Soviet missiles in Cuba were a vital threat for the USA, and American missiles in Turkey were a vital threat for Russia) actully collide - then, yes, the war is inevitable, and even UN can't prevent it. But, if there is a possible mutually acceptable solution (like Russia removes missiles from Cuba and the USA removes missiles from Turkey), then, it's much safer and cheaper to find it in a discussion, rather then in a local conflict, proxy war, or even in the actual all-out war . The world in which Russia could prevent Clinton's agression against Serbia, or America could prevent Putin's SMO in Ukraine just by a signing a paper, without sending actual weapons and killing actual human beings, might be much more safer for everyone.

Neither of us will live that long.

 

[Silver Cat]

Neither of us will live that long.

Who knows? May be, WWIII will be started and finished in 2025 (as some Russian military analysts say), and the post-WWIII world's order will be established then.

 

[Deadstick]

Human Rights Watch tells a different story


You mean the guy who was just acquitted?

Bosnia Acquits Srebrenica Commander Naser Oric at Retrial​

Thats right the terrorists freed by a Nato Court you need to check out what horror that madman carried out, he had seven thousand troops in Srebrenica who were attacking Serb vilagaes and murdering serbs, that is why the Bosnian serb army under Mladic went in, but the scumbag Oric had run away, you should know by now the ICC is for Serbs and black people.

 

[alang1216]

Who knows? May be, WWIII will be started and finished in 2025 (as some Russian military analysts say), and the post-WWIII world's order will be established then.

Nope. Russia fought our proxies in Afghanistan and we fought their proxies in Vietnam. No nukes, no ww3. WW3 is a pathetic bluff.

 

[Ringo]

Not quite so simple. Yanukovych signed an agreement on settlement of political crisis in Ukraine but never implemented it. Protests by Ukrainian people forced him to flee the country so the Parliament nullified hit office.

Yanukovych was a pro-Ukrainian president. He was a compromise figure who was able to accommodate the majority of ukrainians, which was very difficult, given the complex and heterogeneous composition of the Ukrainian lands. But he did not suit the noisy minority, which is why he was overthrown.
He was overthrown with the support of the American intelligence services and the US State Department - and this was not particularly hidden. Witch Nuland herself admitted that America spent a substantial sum of $5 billion on the coup.
No one could really explain why Yanukovych was bad, so they decided to simply discredit him - they threw a gold loaf into his residence and began shaking it at every corner: here! look at it! For the ukro rednecks, this turned out to be a fairly convincing reason.
And what about Zelensky? He is just a talking head for reading texts and a hand for signing documents. In just one term, he managed to turn Ukraine into a bankrupt, warring country with a dead economy, controlled from overseas and completely dependent on financial injections from the West.

 

[Litwin]

Yanukovych was a pro-Ukrainian president. He was a compromise figure who was able to accommodate the majority of ukrainians, which was very difficult, given the complex and heterogeneous composition of the Ukrainian lands. But he did not suit the noisy minority, which is why he was overthrown.
He was overthrown with the support of the American intelligence services and the US State Department - and this was not particularly hidden. Witch Nuland herself admitted that America spent a substantial sum of $5 billion on the coup.
No one could really explain why Yanukovych was bad, so they decided to simply discredit him - they threw a gold loaf into his residence and began shaking it at every corner: here! look at it! For the ukro rednecks, this turned out to be a fairly convincing reason.
And what about Zelensky? He is just a talking head for reading texts and a hand for signing documents. In just one term, he managed to turn Ukraine into a bankrupt, warring country with a dead economy, controlled from overseas and completely dependent on financial injections from the West.

BREAKING : EU agrees $50B funding deal for Ukraine at pivotal time in the war, TERRIBLE NEWS FOR CZAR putin !!

This decision aims to ensure stable, long-term, and predictable financing for Ukraine, emphasizing the EU’s commitment to assisting the nation in its time of need. A DAY OF TERRIBLE NEWS FOR CZAR POOTLER !

www.usmessageboard.com

any comment ivan ?

 

[Deadstick]

Nope. Russia fought our proxies in Afghanistan and we fought their proxies in Vietnam. No nukes, no ww3. WW3 is a pathetic bluff.

The Vietnamese were no ones proxies, they were fighting to liberate their Country from the US Imperialists and the French Colonialists before that.

 

[Ringo]

 

[alang1216]

Yanukovych was a pro-Ukrainian president. He was a compromise figure who was able to accommodate the majority of ukrainians, which was very difficult, given the complex and heterogeneous composition of the Ukrainian lands. But he did not suit the noisy minority, which is why he was overthrown.
He was overthrown with the support of the American intelligence services and the US State Department - and this was not particularly hidden. Witch Nuland herself admitted that America spent a substantial sum of $5 billion on the coup.

Not everyone agrees.

A false Russian theory argues that Euromaidan was organized by the United States through Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland.​

No one could really explain why Yanukovych was bad, so they decided to simply discredit him - they threw a gold loaf into his residence and began shaking it at every corner: here! look at it! For the ukro rednecks, this turned out to be a fairly convincing reason.

Not all Ukrainians are pro-Russian I guess. Too many bad memories.

And what about Zelensky? He is just a talking head for reading texts and a hand for signing documents. In just one term, he managed to turn Ukraine into a bankrupt, warring country with a dead economy, controlled from overseas and completely dependent on financial injections from the West.

I think Putin was very adept at turning Ukraine into a bankrupt, warring country with a dead economy.

 

[alang1216]

The Vietnamese were no ones proxies, they were fighting to liberate their Country from the US Imperialists and the French Colonialists before that.

They got plenty of support from Russia but we never nuked either. The Afghans were fighting to liberate their Country from the Russian Imperialists but no one nuked anyone. Nukes are just not very useful except against other nukes.