Ukraine-"Russia" sea clash: Poroshenko urges Nato to send ships

[Litwin]

once NATO is there, Somalia with snow will vanish from Azov sea 100% . will NATO finish off new created Somalian off shore in Azov sea? whats Trump is gonna do , which side he supports ?

"Ukraine-"Russia" sea clash: Poroshenko urges Nato to send ships"...Nato has expressed "full support" for Ukraine, which is not a member state.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46381166

 

[Lesh]

Putin is trying to start a war.

How many nations will he be allowed to gobble up?

 

[JoeB131]

Putin is trying to start a war.

How many nations will he be allowed to gobble up?

Maybe the Ukraine should stop fucking with him.

Here's the thing. Ukraine had an election, and the pro-Russia guy won in a fair vote. Then the minority overthrew him, Russians in the Ukraine said, "We're out".

Why is this our problem?

 

[Lesh]

Putin is trying to start a war.

How many nations will he be allowed to gobble up?

Maybe the Ukraine should stop fucking with him.

Here's the thing. Ukraine had an election, and the pro-Russia guy won in a fair vote. Then the minority overthrew him, Russians in the Ukraine said, "We're out".

Why is this our problem?

They threw out the Russian stooge BECAUSE he was a corrupt Russian stooge.

Look at your own statement.

"Russians in Ukraine..."

RUSSIANS...not Ukrainians

History is not your friend. Hitler used ethnic Germans in Czechoslovakia as an excuse to take the Sudetenland...after which he simply gobbled up the rest of the country.

That's the blueprint Putin is using

 

[JoeB131]

They threw out the Russian stooge BECAUSE he was a corrupt Russian stooge.

Look at your own statement.

"Russians in Ukraine..."

RUSSIANS...not Ukrainians

Again, that sounds like a good reason to redraw the borders, give the Crimea and other regions to Russia, and let the Ukrainians keep the rest.

History is not your friend. Hitler used ethnic Germans in Czechoslovakia as an excuse to take the Sudetenland...after which he simply gobbled up the rest of the country.

Except he didn't "gobble up" the rest of the country. The Slovaks got their own country. The Hungarians got to rejoin Hungary. The Czechs were given their own country.

which everyone at the time was kind of fine with... Nobody thought the fake country of Czechoslovakia was worth going to war over, even the people who lived in it. The Hungarians, Slovaks and Germans welcomed the new order.

That's the blueprint Putin is using

Perhaps. So what? Here's the underlying problem. the borders of nations of the former USSR don't really represent where people actually live, they represent what the commissars thought would be easier to administer. The Crimea was never really considered part of the Ukraine until Krushev decided it was. The Russians living there had enough, and why shouldn't they?

Again, why is any of this our problem?

Now, all that said, I would feel perfectly fine with a rational discussion of this if we didn't have a Russian Puppet in our white house that will probably let Putin get away with this, or worse, start a shooting war to prove he isn't a Russian Stooge.

 

[Lesh]

They threw out the Russian stooge BECAUSE he was a corrupt Russian stooge.

Look at your own statement.

"Russians in Ukraine..."

RUSSIANS...not Ukrainians

Again, that sounds like a good reason to redraw the borders, give the Crimea and other regions to Russia, and let the Ukrainians keep the rest.

History is not your friend. Hitler used ethnic Germans in Czechoslovakia as an excuse to take the Sudetenland...after which he simply gobbled up the rest of the country.

Except he didn't "gobble up" the rest of the country. The Slovaks got their own country. The Hungarians got to rejoin Hungary. The Czechs were given their own country.

which everyone at the time was kind of fine with... Nobody thought the fake country of Czechoslovakia was worth going to war over, even the people who lived in it. The Hungarians, Slovaks and Germans welcomed the new order.

That's the blueprint Putin is using

Perhaps. So what? Here's the underlying problem. the borders of nations of the former USSR don't really represent where people actually live, they represent what the commissars thought would be easier to administer. The Crimea was never really considered part of the Ukraine until Krushev decided it was. The Russians living there had enough, and why shouldn't they?

Again, why is any of this our problem?

Now, all that said, I would feel perfectly fine with a rational discussion of this if we didn't have a Russian Puppet in our white house that will probably let Putin get away with this, or worse, start a shooting war to prove he isn't a Russian Stooge.

So wait...you defend Russia trying to invade and conquer Ukraine in the same way you defend Hitler invading and conquering Czechoslovakia?

Are you a Russian troll?

 

[JoeB131]

So wait...you defend Russia trying to invade and conquer Ukraine in the same way you defend Hitler invading and conquering Czechoslovakia?

Are you a Russian troll?

Nope, just can't get worked up about the Ukrainians being in a mess they got themselves into.

It's not my problem.

 

[Lesh]

So wait...you defend Russia trying to invade and conquer Ukraine in the same way you defend Hitler invading and conquering Czechoslovakia?

Are you a Russian troll?

Nope, just can't get worked up about the Ukrainians being in a mess they got themselves into.

It's not my problem.

Putin's aggression is the WORLD'S problem...just as Hitler's aggressions were

 

[Litwin]

Putin is trying to start a war.

How many nations will he be allowed to gobble up?

Putler has gobbled at least pieces from 4 countries : Azerbaijan, Moldova, Georgia, Ukraine . and today many in Belarus and Kazakhstan fear that they are next on putler´s menu

 

[Litwin]

Putin is trying to start a war.

How many nations will he be allowed to gobble up?

Maybe the Ukraine should stop fucking with him.

Here's the thing. Ukraine had an election, and the pro-Russia guy won in a fair vote. Then the minority overthrew him, Russians in the Ukraine said, "We're out".

Why is this our problem?

i see you are a typical putlerist or a paid - troll from Olgono

 

[MisterBeale]

So wait...you defend Russia trying to invade and conquer Ukraine in the same way you defend Hitler invading and conquering Czechoslovakia?

Are you a Russian troll?

Nope, just can't get worked up about the Ukrainians being in a mess they got themselves into.

It's not my problem.

Putin's aggression is the WORLD'S problem...just as Hitler's aggressions were

Don't you mean Ukraine's aggression is Putin's problem, not our problem?

There are two sides to every story. Why did they fire?

Hmmmm.. . . .

Ukraine Resorts to 'Bandit Methods' in Kerch Strait - Maria Zakharova
Earlier in the day, the press service of the Russian FSB's Crimean border department detailed that three Ukrainian Navy ships crossed into a temporarily off-limits section of Russian territorial waters, moving from the Black Sea to the Kerch Strait.
Ukraine Resorts to 'Bandit Methods' in Kerch Strait - Maria Zakharova

 

[Litwin]

So wait...you defend Russia trying to invade and conquer Ukraine in the same way you defend Hitler invading and conquering Czechoslovakia?

Are you a Russian troll?

Nope, just can't get worked up about the Ukrainians being in a mess they got themselves into.

It's not my problem.

Putin's aggression is the WORLD'S problem...just as Hitler's aggressions were

+1

 

[Lesh]

So wait...you defend Russia trying to invade and conquer Ukraine in the same way you defend Hitler invading and conquering Czechoslovakia?

Are you a Russian troll?

Nope, just can't get worked up about the Ukrainians being in a mess they got themselves into.

It's not my problem.

Putin's aggression is the WORLD'S problem...just as Hitler's aggressions were

Don't you mean Ukraine's aggression is Putin's problem, not our problem?

There are two sides to every story. Why did they fire?

Hmmmm.. . . .

Ukraine Resorts to 'Bandit Methods' in Kerch Strait - Maria Zakharova
Earlier in the day, the press service of the Russian FSB's Crimean border department detailed that three Ukrainian Navy ships crossed into a temporarily off-limits section of Russian territorial waters, moving from the Black Sea to the Kerch Strait.
Ukraine Resorts to 'Bandit Methods' in Kerch Strait - Maria Zakharova

Do you have a DIRECT line to the Kremlin?

The FSB?

Jesus dude...

 

[Litwin]

So wait...you defend Russia trying to invade and conquer Ukraine in the same way you defend Hitler invading and conquering Czechoslovakia?

Are you a Russian troll?

Nope, just can't get worked up about the Ukrainians being in a mess they got themselves into.

It's not my problem.

Putin's aggression is the WORLD'S problem...just as Hitler's aggressions were

Don't you mean Ukraine's aggression is Putin's problem, not our problem?

There are two sides to every story. Why did they fire?

Hmmmm.. . . .

Ukraine Resorts to 'Bandit Methods' in Kerch Strait - Maria Zakharova
Earlier in the day, the press service of the Russian FSB's Crimean border department detailed that three Ukrainian Navy ships crossed into a temporarily off-limits section of Russian territorial waters, moving from the Black Sea to the Kerch Strait.
Ukraine Resorts to 'Bandit Methods' in Kerch Strait - Maria Zakharova

so putlerist, we have to take serious words of this alcoholized putler´s personal propagandacondom ?

 

[Litwin]

So wait...you defend Russia trying to invade and conquer Ukraine in the same way you defend Hitler invading and conquering Czechoslovakia?

Are you a Russian troll?

Nope, just can't get worked up about the Ukrainians being in a mess they got themselves into.

It's not my problem.

Putin's aggression is the WORLD'S problem...just as Hitler's aggressions were

Don't you mean Ukraine's aggression is Putin's problem, not our problem?

There are two sides to every story. Why did they fire?

Hmmmm.. . . .

Ukraine Resorts to 'Bandit Methods' in Kerch Strait - Maria Zakharova
Earlier in the day, the press service of the Russian FSB's Crimean border department detailed that three Ukrainian Navy ships crossed into a temporarily off-limits section of Russian territorial waters, moving from the Black Sea to the Kerch Strait.
Ukraine Resorts to 'Bandit Methods' in Kerch Strait - Maria Zakharova

Do you have a DIRECT line to the Kremlin?

The FSB?

Jesus dude...

man he posted DIRECT from Olgino troll factory

 

[MisterBeale]

So wait...you defend Russia trying to invade and conquer Ukraine in the same way you defend Hitler invading and conquering Czechoslovakia?

Are you a Russian troll?

Nope, just can't get worked up about the Ukrainians being in a mess they got themselves into.

It's not my problem.

Putin's aggression is the WORLD'S problem...just as Hitler's aggressions were

+1

 

[Stratford57]

So wait...you defend Russia trying to invade and conquer Ukraine in the same way you defend Hitler invading and conquering Czechoslovakia?

Are you a Russian troll?

Nope, just can't get worked up about the Ukrainians being in a mess they got themselves into.

It's not my problem.

Putin's aggression is the WORLD'S problem...just as Hitler's aggressions were

Don't you mean Ukraine's aggression is Putin's problem, not our problem?

There are two sides to every story. Why did they fire?

Hmmmm.. . . .

Ukraine Resorts to 'Bandit Methods' in Kerch Strait - Maria Zakharova
Earlier in the day, the press service of the Russian FSB's Crimean border department detailed that three Ukrainian Navy ships crossed into a temporarily off-limits section of Russian territorial waters, moving from the Black Sea to the Kerch Strait.
Ukraine Resorts to 'Bandit Methods' in Kerch Strait - Maria Zakharova

If you are interested yesterday Putin has commented Ukrainian provocation in Black see. It's a bit long but worth of reading.

Vladimir Putin: As concerns the incident in the Black Sea, it was obviously a provocation organised by the current officials – I think, by the incumbent president, ahead of the presidential election in Ukraine to be held next March.

The current president is, I think, fifth in the popularity rating and there is a chance he may not make it into the second round. Therefore, he needs to do something to escalate the situation and create unsurpassable obstacles for his rivals, especially in the opposition.

Why do I think so and why am I even certain that this is the case? Look, there was an incident (I will speak about it in a minute) in the Black Sea. But it is a border incident, nothing more. What happened in 2014 when Crimea decided to join Russia? That was a different story, a big one.

What about the painful civil war in southeastern Ukraine, in Donbass, in the Lugansk region, when government forces deployed tanks and heavy artillery, even aviation? It was a war while no martial law was declared.

Now, a small Black Sea incident resulted in martial law. This is clearly a measure taken because of the presidential election. It is absolutely obvious.

Now regarding this incident, or provocation, to be exact. Certainly, this is a provocation. Look, last September roughly the same convoy of Ukrainian military ships passed through the Kerch Strait under the Kerch Bridge to the Sea of Azov.

They fully complied with all agreements and requirements, informing the border guards about what ships made up the convoy, who they were and where they were going. We provided them with a pilotage service and quietly led them to their destination in the Sea of Azov.

What happened this time? They did not respond to our border guard’s requests. They entered our territorial waters. I would like you to note that they entered our territorial waters which were ours before Crimea became part of the Russian Federation. That is, they entered the waters which have always been Russian territorial waters.

Without responding to our border guards, they proceeded to move towards the [Kerch] Bridge. Neither did they respond to our proposal to moor the ships at the marina. Our proposal to take a pilot – even after the violation of our state border they, nevertheless, were offered to take a pilot – was met with silence, there was no reaction whatsoever.

What should border guards do in a situation like this? Military ships had entered Russian territorial waters and were not responding to our border guards and it was unclear what they were going to do. What did the border guards have to do? Had they acted differently, all of them would have been put on trial. They were fulfilling their military duty, the order they were given and, as things stand, they were fulfilling their legitimate functions to protect the territorial integrity of the Russian Federation.

I believe that the same would have been done in any other country, it is absolutely clear. Also, it was discovered that two Ukrainian Security Service officers were among the crew members and, in fact, were in charge of this special operation. They have acknowledged they were Ukrainian Security Service officers. These are clear signs of a provocation that had been planned in advance so it could be used as a pretext for introducing martial law in the country.

This has nothing to do with the efforts being taken to put relations between Russia and Ukraine back on track. This is a game to exacerbate tension, this is an immoral game that is being played in the country in order to neutralise someone’s political opponents.

In fact, I have already got used to many things but today’s Kiev authorities…They have succeeded in selling anti-Russia sentiments and they have nothing else to sell. It seems that no matter what they do, they always get away with it. If they ask to be given infants for breakfast they will probably have them served. Well, we will be told, they want to eat and that is it.

This is a very short-sighted policy. It will not lead to good things because it tends to unnerve today’s Ukrainian leadership in a way that it does not urge them to get down to normal political work within the country and start pursuing normal economic policy.

They have economic problems in addition to social and financial problems and they never stop to beg, asking the International Monetary Fund to give them money. But these are the future generations who will have to pay this money back. As for their work to promote cooperation with their neighbours, there is nothing good to speak about.

Russia Calling! Investment Forum

P.S. And all that happened just in 5 days before important Putin/Trump negotiations in Argentina on November, 30 hopping to destroy them.
Putin, Trump to hold substantive meeting at G20 in Argentina – Kremlin aide

 

[MisterBeale]

So wait...you defend Russia trying to invade and conquer Ukraine in the same way you defend Hitler invading and conquering Czechoslovakia?

Are you a Russian troll?

Nope, just can't get worked up about the Ukrainians being in a mess they got themselves into.

It's not my problem.

Putin's aggression is the WORLD'S problem...just as Hitler's aggressions were

Don't you mean Ukraine's aggression is Putin's problem, not our problem?

There are two sides to every story. Why did they fire?

Hmmmm.. . . .

Ukraine Resorts to 'Bandit Methods' in Kerch Strait - Maria Zakharova
Earlier in the day, the press service of the Russian FSB's Crimean border department detailed that three Ukrainian Navy ships crossed into a temporarily off-limits section of Russian territorial waters, moving from the Black Sea to the Kerch Strait.
Ukraine Resorts to 'Bandit Methods' in Kerch Strait - Maria Zakharova

Do you have a DIRECT line to the Kremlin?

The FSB?

Jesus dude...

man he posted DIRECT from Olgino troll factory

That's funny. All I was doing was posting the rebuttal from another side.

You posted only the Anglo-American alliance side, one side of the story. There are always two sides to a story.

How about both sides? When you have a conflict, it is wrong to assume only one side is absolutely right, that is childish.

How about another source then?


Ukraine Urges NATO to Deploy Ships Amid Standoff With Russia
Ukraine Urges NATO to Deploy Ships Amid Standoff With Russia

" . . .In response to Sunday’s events, Poroshenko has imposed martial law in much of the country, a move that won parliamentary backing. Putin accused his Ukrainian counterpart of provoking the naval incident in a bid to impose martial law to shore up his sagging popularity and sideline competitors ahead of March’s presidential election.


Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said Poroshenko’s request for NATO to send warships into the Sea of Azov is “clearly aimed at provoking further tensions,” adding that it was driven by the Ukrainian leader’s “electoral and domestic policy motives.”


Ukraine has released what it said was the exact location where its ships were fired on by Russia, saying they were in international waters west of the Kerch Strait. Russia, meanwhile, insisted the Ukrainian vessels were in its territorial waters and refused to communicate with the Russian coast guard, or accept a Russian pilot to guide them through the narrow strait.


“What were the border guards supposed to do?” Putin said Wednesday. “They fulfilled their duty to protect the territorial integrity of the Russian Federation. If they had done something differently, they should have been put on trial for that. . .”

 

[MisterBeale]

So wait...you defend Russia trying to invade and conquer Ukraine in the same way you defend Hitler invading and conquering Czechoslovakia?

Are you a Russian troll?

Nope, just can't get worked up about the Ukrainians being in a mess they got themselves into.

It's not my problem.

Putin's aggression is the WORLD'S problem...just as Hitler's aggressions were

Don't you mean Ukraine's aggression is Putin's problem, not our problem?

There are two sides to every story. Why did they fire?

Hmmmm.. . . .

Ukraine Resorts to 'Bandit Methods' in Kerch Strait - Maria Zakharova
Earlier in the day, the press service of the Russian FSB's Crimean border department detailed that three Ukrainian Navy ships crossed into a temporarily off-limits section of Russian territorial waters, moving from the Black Sea to the Kerch Strait.
Ukraine Resorts to 'Bandit Methods' in Kerch Strait - Maria Zakharova

If you are interested Putin told the whole story about Ukrainian provocation in Black see. It's a bit long but worth of reading.

Vladimir Putin: As concerns the incident in the Black Sea, it was obviously a provocation organised by the current officials – I think, by the incumbent president, ahead of the presidential election in Ukraine to be held next March.

The current president is, I think, fifth in the popularity rating and there is a chance he may not make it into the second round. Therefore, he needs to do something to escalate the situation and create unsurpassable obstacles for his rivals, especially in the opposition.

Why do I think so and why am I even certain that this is the case? Look, there was an incident (I will speak about it in a minute) in the Black Sea. But it is a border incident, nothing more. What happened in 2014 when Crimea decided to join Russia? That was a different story, a big one.

What about the painful civil war in southeastern Ukraine, in Donbass, in the Lugansk region, when government forces deployed tanks and heavy artillery, even aviation? It was a war while no martial law was declared.

Now, a small Black Sea incident resulted in martial law. This is clearly a measure taken because of the presidential election. It is absolutely obvious.

Now regarding this incident, or provocation, to be exact. Certainly, this is a provocation. Look, last September roughly the same convoy of Ukrainian military ships passed through the Kerch Strait under the Kerch Bridge to the Sea of Azov.

They fully complied with all agreements and requirements, informing the border guards about what ships made up the convoy, who they were and where they were going. We provided them with a pilotage service and quietly led them to their destination in the Sea of Azov.

What happened this time? They did not respond to our border guard’s requests. They entered our territorial waters. I would like you to note that they entered our territorial waters which were ours before Crimea became part of the Russian Federation. That is, they entered the waters which have always been Russian territorial waters.

Without responding to our border guards, they proceeded to move towards the [Kerch] Bridge. Neither did they respond to our proposal to moor the ships at the marina. Our proposal to take a pilot – even after the violation of our state border they, nevertheless, were offered to take a pilot – was met with silence, there was no reaction whatsoever.

What should border guards do in a situation like this? Military ships had entered Russian territorial waters and were not responding to our border guards and it was unclear what they were going to do. What did the border guards have to do? Had they acted differently, all of them would have been put on trial. They were fulfilling their military duty, the order they were given and, as things stand, they were fulfilling their legitimate functions to protect the territorial integrity of the Russian Federation.

I believe that the same would have been done in any other country, it is absolutely clear. Also, it was discovered that two Ukrainian Security Service officers were among the crew members and, in fact, were in charge of this special operation. They have acknowledged they were Ukrainian Security Service officers. These are clear signs of a provocation that had been planned in advance so it could be used as a pretext for introducing martial law in the country.

This has nothing to do with the efforts being taken to put relations between Russia and Ukraine back on track. This is a game to exacerbate tension, this is an immoral game that is being played in the country in order to neutralise someone’s political opponents.

In fact, I have already got used to many things but today’s Kiev authorities…They have succeeded in selling anti-Russia sentiments and they have nothing else to sell. It seems that no matter what they do, they always get away with it. If they ask to be given infants for breakfast they will probably have them served. Well, we will be told, they want to eat and that is it.

This is a very short-sighted policy. It will not lead to good things because it tends to unnerve today’s Ukrainian leadership in a way that it does not urge them to get down to normal political work within the country and start pursuing normal economic policy.

They have economic problems in addition to social and financial problems and they never stop to beg, asking the International Monetary Fund to give them money. But these are the future generations who will have to pay this money back. As for their work to promote cooperation with their neighbours, there is nothing good to speak about.

Russia Calling! Investment Forum

P.S. And all that happened just in 5 days before important Putin/Trump negotiations in Argentina on November, 30 hopping to destroy them.

That's what I'm reading in other independent media.

 

[JWBooth]

Poking a bear with a stick is always a stupid idea see Georgia in the South Ossetia dust up. Even more retarded is defending the notion. The petty tyrant declared martial law and looks to defer elections, where he would lose again, requiring the US to stage another coup to place their puppet back in office.