Ukraine Pleads with US to Send Missiles

[Donald H]

Exactly

Ritter explains the facts on Russia's purpose of being a threat to Kiev and the reason why they didn't lay siege to Kiev. I learned something from him on that question.

Ritter can legitimately set himself up as the foremost authority on the war and on Russia's strategic moves.

 

[Rigby5]

?? Because Russian tanks and aircraft? Duh.

Wrong.
It the Ukraine violating treaties and illegally getting missiles that CAUSED the invasion to become necessary.

 

[Rigby5]

Russia is the country who controls the ceasefire, nimrod. They can stop firing any time they like.

Short of nuclear arms, what bigger bomb hasn't Russia used?

Wrong.
By stealing oil, trying to join NATO, violating treaties, and accumulating illegal NATO weapons, Kyiv forced the invasion and is preventing a ceasefire.
When the Ukraine violated their 1992 pledge to never join NATO, and starts accumulating NATO weapons, that is a declaration of war.

 

[Rigby5]

That was the strategy for decades under the USSR.........Yes we should have armed the hell out of Ukraine.......even in limited arming..........They are ******* some Russian up there.

Wrong.
Taking over the Ukraine and arming them with NATO weapons is an illegal treaty violation similar to the USSR putting nukes in Cuba.
We are abusing the Ukrainians as pawns to be destroyed.
We are evil.

 

[bripat9643]

Wrong.
By stealing oil, trying to join NATO, violating treaties, and accumulating illegal NATO weapons, Kyiv forced the invasion and is preventing a ceasefire.
When the Ukraine violated their 1992 pledge to never join NATO, and starts accumulating NATO weapons, that is a declaration of war.

They forced nothing. Russian was free to not invade at every moment. What oil did Ukraine steal? What "illegal" NATO weapons did they "accumulate?" What treaty did they violate?

The western powers pledged to protect Ukraine if it gave up its nuclear weapons. The west reneged on that promise.

You're delusional.

 

[Rigby5]

They forced nothing. Russian was free to not invade at every moment. What oil did Ukraine steal? What "illegal" NATO weapons did they "accumulate?" What treaty did they violate?

The western powers pledged to protect Ukraine if it gave up its nuclear weapons. The west reneged on that promise.

You're delusional.

Yes Russia was obligated to invade once the Ukraine violated the 1992 treaty that Gorbachev used to give them their independence.
It specifically prohibited trying to join NATO.
So with that treaty now null and void, the Ukraine reverts back to a Soviet possession.

The Ukraine never had any nuclear weapons.
They were Soviet weapons under Russian control, that did not belong to the Ukraine and the Ukraine could never have been able to use.

The oil the Ukraine stole was from the Russian pipelines running through the Ukraine, to Europe.
Here is an example of proof of Ukraine theft.

Russia–Ukraine gas disputes - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

{...
On 8 June 2010, a Stockholm court of arbitration ruled Naftohaz of Ukraine must return 12.1 billion cubic metres (430 billion cubic feet) of gas to RosUkrEnergo, a Swiss-based company in which Gazprom controls a 50% stake. Russia accused Ukrainian side of diverting gas from pipelines passing through Ukraine in 2009.[11][12] Several high-ranking Ukrainian officials stated the return "would not be quick".[13]
...}

The Ukraine committed half a dozens acts of war, so Russian then had no choice.

 

[AntonToo]

Wrong.
It the Ukraine violating treaties and illegally getting missiles that CAUSED the invasion to become necessary.

Horseshit -what treaties disallow Ukraine from having conventional weapons??? wtf are you talking about?

Russia agreed to respect Ukraine's territory in nuclear disarment treaty and CLEARLY broke it by annexing Crimea and now invading.

 

[AntonToo]

Yes Russia was obligated to invade once the Ukraine violated the 1992 treaty that Gorbachev used to give them their independence.
It specifically prohibited trying to join NATO.

Idiot, Russia annexed Crimea in 2014 and you are talking about someone violating a treaty? Just wow.

Russia was certainly not OBLIGATED to invade Ukraine, that just insane propaganda morons like you spew to justify Putin's bloody invasion of choice.

No NATO country ever has or will attack Russia, nobody wants any part of their swampy piece of shit country.

 

[bripat9643]

Yes Russia was obligated to invade once the Ukraine violated the 1992 treaty that Gorbachev used to give them their independence.
It specifically prohibited trying to join NATO.
So with that treaty now null and void, the Ukraine reverts back to a Soviet possession.

Gorbachev "used" it to give them their indepence? He didn' thave to use anything. He could simply have given them their independence.

The Ukraine never had any nuclear weapons.
They were Soviet weapons under Russian control, that did not belong to the Ukraine and the Ukraine could never have been able to use.

They were within the boundaries of Ukraine. They could have done whatever they liked with them.

The oil the Ukraine stole was from the Russian pipelines running through the Ukraine, to Europe.
Here is an example of proof of Ukraine theft.

Russia–Ukraine gas disputes - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

{...
On 8 June 2010, a Stockholm court of arbitration ruled Naftohaz of Ukraine must return 12.1 billion cubic metres (430 billion cubic feet) of gas to RosUkrEnergo, a Swiss-based company in which Gazprom controls a 50% stake. Russia accused Ukrainian side of diverting gas from pipelines passing through Ukraine in 2009.[11][12] Several high-ranking Ukrainian officials stated the return "would not be quick".[13]
...}

The Ukraine committed half a dozens acts of war, so Russian then had no choice.

How was that an act of war? If the pipeline is running through Ukraine, then it can legally take whatever it likes, Who gave this "Stockholm court of arbitration" authorization to make any rulings on the subject?

 

[Rigby5]

Horseshit -what treaties disallow Ukraine from having conventional weapons??? wtf are you talking about?

Russia agreed to respect Ukraine's territory in nuclear disarment treaty and CLEARLY broke it by annexing Crimea and now invading.

Wrong.
Russia agreed to leave the Ukraine alone as long as they did not commit crimes like stealing oil, violating treaties, trying to join NATO, etc.
Since the Ukraine violate the treaty of 1992 with half a dozen criminal acts, then the Ukraine government has to be punished and a new one started.

The Crimea and Donetsk were always ethnic Russian so is part of Russia based on the principle of local autonomy.

 

[bripat9643]

Wrong.
Russia agreed to leave the Ukraine alone as long as they did not commit crimes like stealing oil, violating treaties, trying to join NATO, etc.
Since the Ukraine violate the treaty of 1992 with half a dozen criminal acts, then the Ukraine government has to be punished and a new one started.

The Crimea and Donetsk were always ethnic Russian so is part of Russia based on the principle of local autonomy.

Joining NATO is a crime? Since when?

What ""criminal act."

The U.S. signed hundreds of treaties with the Indians and violated every one of them. Does that mean NATO should make war on the US?

 

[Rigby5]

Gorbachev "used" it to give them their indepence? He didn' thave to use anything. He could simply have given them their independence.


They were within the boundaries of Ukraine. They could have done whatever they liked with them.


How was that an act of war? If the pipeline is running through Ukraine, then it can legally take whatever it likes, Who gave this "Stockholm court of arbitration" authorization to make any rulings on the subject?

Gorbachev was not a dictator, so could not give the Ukraine independence without legal assurances they would support other former members of the Soviet Union, like Russia.
So the Ukraine signed a treaty that required the Ukraine NEVER try to join NATO.
By trying to join NATO, the Ukraine committed an act of war.

The pipelines running through the Ukaine do NOT belong to the Ukraine, and this was already settled in the world court.
The Ukraine lost, and are supposed to pay up, $20 billion.
The UN created and recognized the world court.
It can be in Stockholm, the Hague, or several different places.

 

[AntonToo]

Wrong.
Russia agreed to leave the Ukraine alone as long as they did not commit crimes like stealing oil

Are you seriously trying to justify Russian invasion and land grab...by Ukraine supposedly owning them a few rubles? Who do you think you are going to convince with that silly bullshit?

 

[Rigby5]

Joining NATO is a crime? Since when?

What ""criminal act."

The U.S. signed hundreds of treaties with the Indians and violated every one of them. Does that mean NATO should make war on the US?

Of course they should, if they could.
The US violating treaties to the natives was criminal.

But NATO is just as criminal, being a coalition of colonial imperialist powers, designed to abuse smaller countries they invade and abuse. Like Libya, Syria, etc.

 

[Rigby5]

Are you seriously trying to justify Russian invasion and land grab by Ukraine supposedly owning them a few rubles? Who do you think you are going to convince with that silly bullshit?

There is no "land grab".
Khrushchev was wrong to give part of Russia to the Ukraine in 1955, and Russia should now get those regions back.
That is not just because the Ukraine stole $20 billion in oil, but because of the principle of local autonomy. But the Ukraine government also has to be destroyed and changed because they violated treaties by trying to join NATO.

 

[otto105]

Wrong.
It the Ukraine violating treaties and illegally getting missiles that CAUSED the invasion to become necessary.

Wrong.

The Ukraine is a sovereign nation.

 

[AntonToo]

There is no "land grab".

Crimea was soveregn Ukrainian territory.

Russian millitary takes it over and declares it Russian territory.

Rugby5 says? There is no "land grab".

You sound like a total ******* clown - how do you not realize that?

 

[Rigby5]

Wrong.

The Ukraine is a sovereign nation.

What does that have to do with anything?
The point is the Ukraine signed a treaty to NOT join NATO.
Trying to join NATO is an act of war, similar to the USSR putting nukes in Cuba, so can't be allowed.
It is an act of war.

 

[Rigby5]

Crimea was soveregn Ukrainian territory.

Russian millitary takes it over and declares it Russian territory.

Rugby5 says? There is no "land grab".

You sound like a total ******* clown - how do you not realize that?

Wrong.
The Crimea has always been Russian territory for over 1000 years, and when Khrushchev the Ukrainian gave the Crimea and other parts of Russia, to the Ukraine, it violated basic rights and legal principles.

It would not have happened if the Ukraine has not murdered ethnic Russians, like the mass murders by AZOV at Bucha.

 

[eagle1462010]

Wrong.
Taking over the Ukraine and arming them with NATO weapons is an illegal treaty violation similar to the USSR putting nukes in Cuba.
We are abusing the Ukrainians as pawns to be destroyed.
We are evil.

How are we evil when it is RUSSIA INVADING....................The USSR WERE NOT NICE..............We are giving them weapons to defend themselves..........As long as they want to fight we should give them the means to do so........

Russia could end this SIMPLY................LEAVE.