U.S.: Syria used chemical weapons, crossing "red line"

[tinydancer]

I know no one wants to get involved in Syria and I'm advocating we do so but understand what happens in Syria, Egypt or anywhere else in the middle east has a impact on the U.S. no matter if we get involved there or not.

But HOW does what happen there impact us? It is really not clear how it affects us for them to be rioting and having civil wars, country after impoverished country that never had any economy or anything to start with.

Look at the history we had the Russians invade Afghanistan we helped the rebels by supplying them with weapons when Russia was driven out we walked away that led to the Taliban taking control of the country which led to a safe havan for bin laden and al-queda and we know where that lead .

Everybody sob now.............

The Taliban took control of Afghanistan. Oh yes they did. Benazir Bhutto's child.

The Taliban. Bhutto. You know. Hillary's room mate in college.

So the douche bag Benazir gave us the Taliban. Never ever forget it. Always remember who gave us the Taliban.

 

[Trajan]

Look at the history we had the Russians invade Afghanistan we helped the rebels by supplying them with weapons when Russia was driven out we walked away that led to the Taliban taking control of the country which led to a safe havan for bin laden and al-queda and we know where that lead .

Bingo-----so history tells us what happens when we support Islamic radicals. Why are we doing it again. Apparently the answer is that we are doing it as the first step in taking out Iran.

Because we can’t help but be imperialistic.

Americans in general seem to think that everyone should look to us to lead them and that we are somehow entitled to run the planet. I hate that particular view as we have a TON of problems at home that we need to address. We would be far better off if we stopped using the military was a hammer and used it for defense IMHO. Let the world deal with its own problems, we are not the world’s police. If we really wanted to run other nations we should just dispense with the subterfuge and go back to conquering.

That’s not isolationist btw. We belong on the world stage – we just should not be treating like a place to constantly play war. I am positive that we can trade and discuss matters of international politics or law without blowing something up every damn day.

theres a huge difference between 'imperialism' and Geo-political self interest.

 

[Trajan]

His illegal war against Libya gave the French some fun in Mali. The track record is not looking good.

the 'fun' in mali was to prevent an AQ affiliate from overrunning the country...libya was dumb granted.

Yet now we are going to assist an AQ affiliate to over run Syria ? Apparently there is another agenda going on here that the American people aren't being apprised of. Shocking.

I already explained why its probably best inho and I also said I doubt al nusra would take the whole country.

think big picture.

 

[rdean]

The Obama administration has concluded that Syrian President Bashar Assad's government used chemical weapons against the rebels seeking to overthrow him and, in a major policy shift, President Obama has decided to supply military support to the rebels, the White House announced Thursday.

"The president has made a decision about providing more support to the opposition that will involve providing direct support to the [Supreme Military Council]. That includes military support," Deputy National Security Adviser for Strategic Communication Ben Rhodes told reporters.

U.S.: Syria used chemical weapons, crossing "red line" - CBS News

Americans will die because of this.

You mean like from Iraq? This guy actually has WMD's.

 

[blackhawk]

But HOW does what happen there impact us? It is really not clear how it affects us for them to be rioting and having civil wars, country after impoverished country that never had any economy or anything to start with.

Look at the history we had the Russians invade Afghanistan we helped the rebels by supplying them with weapons when Russia was driven out we walked away that led to the Taliban taking control of the country which led to a safe havan for bin laden and al-queda and we know where that lead .

Bingo-----so history tells us what happens when we support Islamic radicals. Why are we doing it again. Apparently the answer is that we are doing it as the first step in taking out Iran.

Look at the recent flip side we pretty much took no role in Libya and lead from behind in that uprising keep a low profile after Momar was killed stayed out of the internal politics and that got us Benghazi. There is no way to isolate ourselves from the effects of events in other parts of the world no matter how much we might want to at times.

 

[Trajan]

and


The official said the U.S. intelligence community based its assessment, which was given to the White House, on ‘‘the reported number of victims, reported symptoms of those who were killed or injured’’ and witness accounts.

The official said the White House believes the Syrian government had denied a U.N. investigative team immediate access to the site of a reported Aug. 21 chemical weapons attack in the Damascus suburbs, in order to give the evidence of the attack time to degrade.

The official said the regime’s continuing shelling of the site also further corrupts any available evidence of the attack.

On Sunday morning, Syrian State TV announced the regime would allow U.N. inspectors to visit the site, but the Obama administration official said a belated decision to grant access to the U.N. team would be considered ‘‘too late to be credible.’’

US official: chemical weapons likely used in Syria - News Nation Washington - Boston.com

so, there it is, they never would have said this unless they were sure.

 

[dilloduck]

the 'fun' in mali was to prevent an AQ affiliate from overrunning the country...libya was dumb granted.

Yet now we are going to assist an AQ affiliate to over run Syria ? Apparently there is another agenda going on here that the American people aren't being apprised of. Shocking.

I already explained why its probably best inho and I also said I doubt al nusra would take the whole country.

think big picture.

I get the fact that there is a big picture alright. Who planned this all out and has Congress ok'd it or is this just more evidence that the American people have no say in what happens anymore ?
I'm pretty sure it's the latter.

 

[dilloduck]

Look at the history we had the Russians invade Afghanistan we helped the rebels by supplying them with weapons when Russia was driven out we walked away that led to the Taliban taking control of the country which led to a safe havan for bin laden and al-queda and we know where that lead .

Bingo-----so history tells us what happens when we support Islamic radicals. Why are we doing it again. Apparently the answer is that we are doing it as the first step in taking out Iran.

Look at the recent flip side we pretty much took no role in Libya and lead from behind in that uprising keep a low profile after Momar was killed stayed out of the internal politics and that got us Benghazi. There is no way to isolate ourselves from the effects of events in other parts of the world no matter how much we might want to at times.

Sorry but that didn't get us into Benghazi.

 

[dilloduck]

and


the official said the u.s. Intelligence community based its assessment, which was given to the white house, on ‘‘the reported number of victims, reported symptoms of those who were killed or injured’’ and witness accounts.

The official said the white house believes the syrian government had denied a u.n. Investigative team immediate access to the site of a reported aug. 21 chemical weapons attack in the damascus suburbs, in order to give the evidence of the attack time to degrade.

The official said the regime’s continuing shelling of the site also further corrupts any available evidence of the attack.

On sunday morning, syrian state tv announced the regime would allow u.n. Inspectors to visit the site, but the obama administration official said a belated decision to grant access to the u.n. Team would be considered ‘‘too late to be credible.’’

us official: Chemical weapons likely used in syria - news nation washington - boston.com

so, there it is, they never would have said this unless they were sure.

lmfao

 

[Trajan]

Yet now we are going to assist an AQ affiliate to over run Syria ? Apparently there is another agenda going on here that the American people aren't being apprised of. Shocking.

I already explained why its probably best inho and I also said I doubt al nusra would take the whole country.

think big picture.

I get the fact that there is a big picture alright. Who planned this all out and has Congress ok'd it or is this just more evidence that the American people have no say in what happens anymore ?
I'm pretty sure it's the latter.

sure we do, its called an election. we elected these folks and we will have another election in 2014.

ruling by knee jerk plebiscite is the only way the amercian people would have a say in things like this, in other words- chaos.

 

[dilloduck]

I already explained why its probably best inho and I also said I doubt al nusra would take the whole country.

think big picture.

I get the fact that there is a big picture alright. Who planned this all out and has Congress ok'd it or is this just more evidence that the American people have no say in what happens anymore ?
I'm pretty sure it's the latter.

sure we do, its called an election. we elected these folks and we will have another election in 2014.

ruling by knee jerk plebiscite is the only way the amercian people would have a say in things like this, in other words- chaos.

So Congress is aware and has approved of the big picture ? Maybe for shits and giggles they could share it with everyone ( or would that **** up their re election plans ?)

 

[Trajan]

I get the fact that there is a big picture alright. Who planned this all out and has Congress ok'd it or is this just more evidence that the American people have no say in what happens anymore ?
I'm pretty sure it's the latter.

sure we do, its called an election. we elected these folks and we will have another election in 2014.

ruling by knee jerk plebiscite is the only way the amercian people would have a say in things like this, in other words- chaos.

So Congress is aware and has approved of the big picture ? Maybe for shits and giggles they could share it with everyone ( or would that **** up their re election plans ?)

it depends on what you're addressing...foreign policy is the executive branches patch....and if for example obama does what he did like not not conforming with the war powers act ala Libya, congress will have to deal with it....they didn't do much then ...so, I doubt they will if he evokes say a no fly zone etc. now....


I'll make this point one more time- obama doesn't have a real FP....he started with the idea that he had to atone or make amends to the world for our 'past' because America apparently is not and has not been a force of good, but one that threw its weight around and needed to step back, ( example- his hostile policy vis a vis Israel) now, thats not a judgment, just a comment on his policy, the problem with that is it isn't a policy, shit happens as we see, so hes lost.

What he and say carter didn't understand till to late is we have to employ self interested FP, and like it or not- thats part of the job, when you don't you watch has other world actors make their moves and we play catch up becasue we have neutered ourselves. Pre- world war 2 sitting back may have been an option, since then its not.

Example- watch, we will almost certainly have to come down on Al Sisi and the generals side in Egypt, in effect, we will just be returning to Mubarak Egypt minus Mubarak…and all that’s happened since we threw him under the bus, and what will happen as to live lost and chaos will have been for what exactly? Zero. Same with the shah vis a vis Islamic clerics running Iran…..Obama picked up where Carter left off in this sense because his world view was limited to the belief that we were the reason international tumult occurred…..the world doesn’t stand still because we opt, to opt out….

 

[FA_Q2]

Bingo-----so history tells us what happens when we support Islamic radicals. Why are we doing it again. Apparently the answer is that we are doing it as the first step in taking out Iran.

Because we can’t help but be imperialistic.

Americans in general seem to think that everyone should look to us to lead them and that we are somehow entitled to run the planet. I hate that particular view as we have a TON of problems at home that we need to address. We would be far better off if we stopped using the military was a hammer and used it for defense IMHO. Let the world deal with its own problems, we are not the world’s police. If we really wanted to run other nations we should just dispense with the subterfuge and go back to conquering.

That’s not isolationist btw. We belong on the world stage – we just should not be treating like a place to constantly play war. I am positive that we can trade and discuss matters of international politics or law without blowing something up every damn day.

theres a huge difference between 'imperialism' and Geo-political self interest.

Yes, there is. Very little of our current international agenda is something I would classify as ‘geo-political interest’ though. We are trying to stand up governments – that is not geo-political interests, that’s imperialism. Further, it HURTS our interests when, inevitably, the end answer ends up NOT being the one that we had thought it would be. Iraq, Afghanistan (though I support the war there), Egypt and Syria are all EXCELLENT examples of this. We are better off staying the hell out of things until the dust settles and dealing with whatever government the regions end up with.

 

[tinydancer]

and


The official said the U.S. intelligence community based its assessment, which was given to the White House, on ‘‘the reported number of victims, reported symptoms of those who were killed or injured’’ and witness accounts.

The official said the White House believes the Syrian government had denied a U.N. investigative team immediate access to the site of a reported Aug. 21 chemical weapons attack in the Damascus suburbs, in order to give the evidence of the attack time to degrade.

The official said the regime’s continuing shelling of the site also further corrupts any available evidence of the attack.

On Sunday morning, Syrian State TV announced the regime would allow U.N. inspectors to visit the site, but the Obama administration official said a belated decision to grant access to the U.N. team would be considered ‘‘too late to be credible.’’

US official: chemical weapons likely used in Syria - News Nation Washington - Boston.com

so, there it is, they never would have said this unless they were sure.

I've got that there are 20 inspectors on the ground there.

whoa geeze.

AND THAT they were on the ground when this alleged attack happened.

whoa...whoa...

What the hell are you getting in your press?

 

[tinydancer]

This is bullshit.

This is all mother trucking bullshit.

All other news agencies are saying that this is suspicious beyond all belief because Assad invited the UN inspectors in and then all of a sudden there is this supposed attack?

In a Damascus suburb?

 

[tinydancer]

For crying out loud people THINK.

 

[dilloduck]

sure we do, its called an election. we elected these folks and we will have another election in 2014.

ruling by knee jerk plebiscite is the only way the amercian people would have a say in things like this, in other words- chaos.

So Congress is aware and has approved of the big picture ? Maybe for shits and giggles they could share it with everyone ( or would that **** up their re election plans ?)

it depends on what you're addressing...foreign policy is the executive branches patch....and if for example obama does what he did like not not conforming with the war powers act ala Libya, congress will have to deal with it....they didn't do much then ...so, I doubt they will if he evokes say a no fly zone etc. now....


I'll make this point one more time- obama doesn't have a real FP....he started with the idea that he had to atone or make amends to the world for our 'past' because America apparently is not and has not been a force of good, but one that threw its weight around and needed to step back, ( example- his hostile policy vis a vis Israel) now, thats not a judgment, just a comment on his policy, the problem with that is it isn't a policy, shit happens as we see, so hes lost.

What he and say carter didn't understand till to late is we have to employ self interested FP, and like it or not- thats part of the job, when you don't you watch has other world actors make their moves and we play catch up becasue we have neutered ourselves. Pre- world war 2 sitting back may have been an option, since then its not.

Example- watch, we will almost certainly have to come down on Al Sisi and the generals side in Egypt, in effect, we will just be returning to Mubarak Egypt minus Mubarak…and all that’s happened since we threw him under the bus, and what will happen as to live lost and chaos will have been for what exactly? Zero. Same with the shah vis a vis Islamic clerics running Iran…..Obama picked up where Carter left off in this sense because his world view was limited to the belief that we were the reason international tumult occurred…..the world doesn’t stand still because we opt, to opt out….

Refusing to assist in the overthrow of Assad is far from opting out. If you claim that it's part of the bigger picture that includes Iran perhaps that should be explained to people BEFORE they vote on their representatives to Congress. It's no wonder people claim conspiracy when they see things like this. Obama runs against Bush's foreign policy and then turns right around and repeats it ?

 

[MisterBeale]

and


The official said the U.S. intelligence community based its assessment, which was given to the White House, on ‘‘the reported number of victims, reported symptoms of those who were killed or injured’’ and witness accounts.

The official said the White House believes the Syrian government had denied a U.N. investigative team immediate access to the site of a reported Aug. 21 chemical weapons attack in the Damascus suburbs, in order to give the evidence of the attack time to degrade.

The official said the regime’s continuing shelling of the site also further corrupts any available evidence of the attack.

On Sunday morning, Syrian State TV announced the regime would allow U.N. inspectors to visit the site, but the Obama administration official said a belated decision to grant access to the U.N. team would be considered ‘‘too late to be credible.’’

US official: chemical weapons likely used in Syria - News Nation Washington - Boston.com

so, there it is, they never would have said this unless they were sure.

While although this is true, we can't be sure WHICH side used them, they were used on civilians. They could have just as well been used by the terrorists as by the Assad government.

Come on now, which would make more sense? Why would the Syrian forces attack civilians with nerve gas, does that make ANY sense? The government knows it would incur the wrath of the US and NATO and bring in the allies, actively on the side of their opponents.

Or would it make more sense for the Syrian opposition and their terrorist allies to do this, knowing that if they can convince the world, Doctors with out borders, and Americans, that the regime in power did this, that Airstrikes and Air support would soon be in the offing?

The current regime has NOTHING to gain and everything to lose. The rebels have everything to gain, and nothing to lose.

In fact, there is, on tape, more circumstantial proof to the contrary.

For NATO and the US, launching attacks at this point might well be a deadly mistake, as both the Russians and Chinese have warned the U.S. to not get involved. The Syrians have adequately covered their bases. Washington's attempts to intervene, it seems, have been foiled again. They might intervene under false pretexts, but then they will be gambling to see if the Russians and Chinese are will to start a shooting war over Syria.

Two phone calls affirm the use of chemical weapons in Homs by terrorists
http://sana.sy/eng/21/2013/08/23/498717.htm

Damascus, (SANA) - A phone call between a terrorist affiliated to the so-called "Shuhada al-Bayada Battalion" in Homs and his boss who was called Adulbasit from Saudi Arabia uncovered that terrorists used the chemical weapons in Deir Ballba in Homs countryside.

During a phone call broadcast on the Syrian TV Channel, the terrorist said that his group which comprises 200 terrorists escaped from al-Bayadah to al-Daar al-Kabera through a tunnel, adding that they needed to buy weapons to attack the City of Homs.

The Saudi financier who was present in Cairo asked the Syrian terrorists about details on his group and the way they will receive the money, admitting his support to terrorists in Daraa and Damascus Countryside, in turn the Syria terrorist told him that one of the achievements of his "Battalion" was the use of chemical weapons in Deir Ballba.

In the same context, another phone call reveled the cooperation between tow terrorist groups to bring two bottles of Sarin Gas from Barzeh neighborhood in Damascus.

B. Mousa / Mazen

 

[dilloduck]

There is a real reason that factions in America want Assad to be deposed. So far we haven't heard it yet.

 

[FA_Q2]

sure we do, its called an election. we elected these folks and we will have another election in 2014.

ruling by knee jerk plebiscite is the only way the amercian people would have a say in things like this, in other words- chaos.

So Congress is aware and has approved of the big picture ? Maybe for shits and giggles they could share it with everyone ( or would that **** up their re election plans ?)

it depends on what you're addressing...foreign policy is the executive branches patch....and if for example obama does what he did like not not conforming with the war powers act ala Libya, congress will have to deal with it....they didn't do much then ...so, I doubt they will if he evokes say a no fly zone etc. now....


I'll make this point one more time- obama doesn't have a real FP....he started with the idea that he had to atone or make amends to the world for our 'past' because America apparently is not and has not been a force of good, but one that threw its weight around and needed to step back, ( example- his hostile policy vis a vis Israel) now, thats not a judgment, just a comment on his policy, the problem with that is it isn't a policy, shit happens as we see, so hes lost.

What he and say carter didn't understand till to late is we have to employ self interested FP, and like it or not- thats part of the job, when you don't you watch has other world actors make their moves and we play catch up becasue we have neutered ourselves. Pre- world war 2 sitting back may have been an option, since then its not.

Example- watch, we will almost certainly have to come down on Al Sisi and the generals side in Egypt, in effect, we will just be returning to Mubarak Egypt minus Mubarak…and all that’s happened since we threw him under the bus, and what will happen as to live lost and chaos will have been for what exactly? Zero. Same with the shah vis a vis Islamic clerics running Iran…..Obama picked up where Carter left off in this sense because his world view was limited to the belief that we were the reason international tumult occurred…..the world doesn’t stand still because we opt, to opt out….

I think that the fatal flaw with this though is that the opposite is also true – the world does not stop operating because we opt out as well. Take your Egypt example – you act as though us stepping in is NECESSARY for that nation to stabilize. That is silly and I rather think the exact opposite is true. The more we meddle, the more that governments are not set up in accordance with the people and they look to us as aggressors – meddling in their affairs that we have no right to do. In all honesty, I don’t think anyone wants to totally opt out anyway. There is more to it than that. We still need to be on the world stage BUT we do not need to be standing up governments, blowing governments up or arming random rebel factions. That has turned out EXTREMELY poor for us in the past.

The world does not descend into chaos because we opt out. That is an incredible arrogant view, don’t you think?