U.S. Soldiers Punished For Not Attending Christian Concert

[ConHog]

"You just aren't getting it, you can not apply your COTUS right to the situation. They are NOT applicable. it's just that simple. "


I get it.

you believe in forced religion.

you believe that soldiers can be FORCED to accept christianity

you believe that, if you were in the military and your commander ORDERED you to attend muslims mosques on a daily basis you would just DO IT without questioning!

and I believe that this is wrong.

And that's cool, just means the military isn't for you.

let me ask you, if a soldier's on base house is searched without a warrant is that illegal?

probably

and to be honest i don't care.

I would not make an issue of it and I accept that this is a case where they have given up a particular right.

you can cite thousands of cases where military personnel have given up rights and I won't disagree

on this particular issue, coerced christianity, I do NOT agree.

A warrant less search on an on base house would NOT be illegal.

You're against this ONE point, because it contains the word Christianity. That's obvious. Sorry , but soldiers do NOT get ot cherry pick the UCMJ.

 

[blu]

I still may join the military before im too old to do so and then the first time they shove some christ crap down my throat i will hire tens of lawyers and sue them until all religion is removed from it. its bullshit that people have to put up with jesus bullshit while handling all the other stresses the job brings

 

[ConHog]

I still may join the military before im too old to do so and then the first time they shove some christ crap down my throat i will hire tens of lawyers and sue them until all religion is removed from it. its bullshit that people have to put up with jesus bullshit while handling all the other stresses the job brings

You'll sue because you're subject to the UCMJ? HAHAHHAHHA do it. You'd never get a chance, b'c you'd never make it through boot camp.

 

[Smartt33]

Sad. All of this disagreement over an article that has not even been shown to be true. It is a story, with some possible truths, and some possible lies.

 

[rikules]

Oh please, pod. You consistently interject yourself into debate threads with NOTHING but personal insults.

as do you.

?

you really should debate in a more civil manner

I took a vow last night that I was no longer going to engage in personal attacks and insults.

so far I have kept that vow......

I would hope that someone who professes his/her christian religion as much as you do would at least TRY to behave in a civil manner

it is possible to debate with people by just posting your opinions sans insults and denigrating personal attacks

your constant insults and attacks do not reflect well on your supposed christian religious beliefs

 

[ConHog]

Oh please, pod. You consistently interject yourself into debate threads with NOTHING but personal insults.

as do you.

?

you really should debate in a more civil manner

I took a vow last night that I was no longer going to engage in personal attacks and insults.

so far I have kept that vow......

I would hope that someone who professes his/her christian religion as much as you do would at least TRY to behave in a civil manner

it is possible to debate with people by just posting your opinions sans insults and denigrating personal attacks

your constant insults and attacks do not reflect well on your supposed christian religious beliefs

You made that vow ? Really?

 

[rikules]

And that's cool, just means the military isn't for you.

let me ask you, if a soldier's on base house is searched without a warrant is that illegal?

probably

and to be honest i don't care.

I would not make an issue of it and I accept that this is a case where they have given up a particular right.

you can cite thousands of cases where military personnel have given up rights and I won't disagree

on this particular issue, coerced christianity, I do NOT agree.

A warrant less search on an on base house would NOT be illegal.

You're against this ONE point, because it contains the word Christianity. That's obvious. Sorry , but soldiers do NOT get ot cherry pick the UCMJ.

so
after arguing with me that soldiers give up their rights
you are now saying that they DO have some rights?

well

if they have SOME rights
then one of those rights they should have is the right to religion
or non religion

 

[AllieBaba]

Crappy source, let's see some corroborating evidence.

Man, you must of been so happy that DiamondDave said that so you can follow him on that one. Though you of all people saying that is ironic.

i have never seen alliebabe post an original though, she is great at hitting the "quote" button though

That's because this isn't a research site, it's a debate site.

To debate and to convince, you use facts and back up what you say with supporting literature.

That's also what you do when you research, as far as that goes. The more sources you have, the better grade you get if you are submitting for a grade, and the better received your research is.

I find it laughable that I'm being criticized for sourcing too well. That's ******* hilarious. I'll have to share this with my instructors, they'll get a kick out of it.

 

[AllieBaba]

PS...I've never gotten less than an A on any of my college papers.

 

[rikules]

And that's cool, just means the military isn't for you.

let me ask you, if a soldier's on base house is searched without a warrant is that illegal?

probably

and to be honest i don't care.

I would not make an issue of it and I accept that this is a case where they have given up a particular right.

you can cite thousands of cases where military personnel have given up rights and I won't disagree

on this particular issue, coerced christianity, I do NOT agree.

A warrant less search on an on base house would NOT be illegal.

You're against this ONE point, because it contains the word Christianity. That's obvious. Sorry , but soldiers do NOT get ot cherry pick the UCMJ.

christianity
religion
judaism
islam
zoroastrianism
buddhism

this case happens to be christian

but if it were ANY RELIGION (including atheism!)

I would oppose it

soldiers should not lose their right to BELIEVE or NOT BELIEVE

 

[ConHog]

probably

and to be honest i don't care.

I would not make an issue of it and I accept that this is a case where they have given up a particular right.

you can cite thousands of cases where military personnel have given up rights and I won't disagree

on this particular issue, coerced christianity, I do NOT agree.

A warrant less search on an on base house would NOT be illegal.

You're against this ONE point, because it contains the word Christianity. That's obvious. Sorry , but soldiers do NOT get ot cherry pick the UCMJ.

so
after arguing with me that soldiers give up their rights
you are now saying that they DO have some rights?

well

if they have SOME rights
then one of those rights they should have is the right to religion
or non religion

Well, that isn't what I said, but I will say it. Of course soldiers have SOME rights, as defined by the UCMJ, and NOT the COTUS. Sorry that's just the way it is.

 

[rikules]

Oh please, pod. You consistently interject yourself into debate threads with NOTHING but personal insults.

as do you.

?

you really should debate in a more civil manner

I took a vow last night that I was no longer going to engage in personal attacks and insults.

so far I have kept that vow......

I would hope that someone who professes his/her christian religion as much as you do would at least TRY to behave in a civil manner

it is possible to debate with people by just posting your opinions sans insults and denigrating personal attacks

your constant insults and attacks do not reflect well on your supposed christian religious beliefs

You made that vow ? Really?

Yes

I was discussing something with conspiracist (sp?)

I believe we each made some disparaging remarks about the other....

he called me a leftist (with a few adjectives that can't be repeated)

whereupon I made some insulting remarks to him and listed the reasons why I am NOT a leftist;

I believe in a STRONG military
I believe in gun ownership
I believe in the death penalty (but I would use it carefully)
I believe in freedom of religion AND freedom of NONreligion
I believe that relatively unfettered capitalism (especially for small businesses) is a good thing
I believe in SMALLER government
I believe in LESS TAXES and WISER USE of taxes
I OPPOSE MANDATORY health care
I OPPOSE welfare for life but would accept TEMPORARY WORKFARE
I support legalization of marijuana and prostitution and think both should be regulated and taxed appropriately

anyway
he and I more or les apologized for our insulting personal attacks

i felt bad about it

and I vowed to not do it again.

so far...I have stuck to it.

I will NOT engage in insults or personal attacks.

I will merely post my opinions.

I can't control other people but I'm hoping it catches on....

I KNOW that most conservatives and MOST liberals are NOT evil people
I understand that we can disagree with each, even strongly, and still be decent people..

I have no doubt that YOU are a decent person....(no matter how wrong you are on this one particular issue (that's a joke)

and I hope to continue to debate without resorting to insults or personal attacks....

which are NEVER FAIR and generally NEVER TRUE

I think that so far you and I have done pretty well...agree?

we don't agree on this issue but neither one of us has resorted to personal attacks...

I want you to know that I really appreciate that!

thanks!

 

[ConHog]

as do you.

?

you really should debate in a more civil manner

I took a vow last night that I was no longer going to engage in personal attacks and insults.

so far I have kept that vow......

I would hope that someone who professes his/her christian religion as much as you do would at least TRY to behave in a civil manner

it is possible to debate with people by just posting your opinions sans insults and denigrating personal attacks

your constant insults and attacks do not reflect well on your supposed christian religious beliefs

You made that vow ? Really?

Yes

I was discussing something with conspiracist (sp?)

I believe we each made some disparaging remarks about the other....

he called me a leftist (with a few adjectives that can't be repeated)

whereupon I made some insulting remarks to him and listed the reasons why I am NOT a leftist;

I believe in a STRONG military
I believe in gun ownership
I believe in the death penalty (but I would use it carefully)
I believe in freedom of religion AND freedom of NONreligion
I believe that relatively unfettered capitalism (especially for small businesses) is a good thing
I believe in SMALLER government
I believe in LESS TAXES and WISER USE of taxes
I OPPOSE MANDATORY health care
I OPPOSE welfare for life but would accept TEMPORARY WORKFARE
I support legalization of marijuana and prostitution and think both should be regulated and taxed appropriately

anyway
he and I more or les apologized for our insulting personal attacks

i felt bad about it

and I vowed to not do it again.

so far...I have stuck to it.

I will NOT engage in insults or personal attacks.

I will merely post my opinions.

I can't control other people but I'm hoping it catches on....

I KNOW that most conservatives and MOST liberals are NOT evil people
I understand that we can disagree with each, even strongly, and still be decent people..

I have no doubt that YOU are a decent person....(no matter how wrong you are on this one particular issue (that's a joke)

and I hope to continue to debate without resorting to insults or personal attacks....

which are NEVER FAIR and generally NEVER TRUE

I think that so far you and I have done pretty well...agree?

we don't agree on this issue but neither one of us has resorted to personal attacks...

I want you to know that I really appreciate that!

thanks!

Actually, I was thinking about this today myself. The actions of last night and this morning on this board have made me step back and reevaluate. Some things were said to me in public and private that were beyond disgusting, and almost drove me away from the board.

I am definitely guilty of being dragged into a lot of the personal attacks, but it is 7:30PM central time, and I vow to also try to refrain from doing so from this point forward. I would ask you to help keep me on the straight and narrow if I should stray, but I have no doubt that certain posters will police me.

I plan on trying though.

and you are wrong about this issue. no i'm not joking.

 

[rdean]

U.S. Soldiers Punished for Not Attending Christian Concert : Veterans Today

And then there’s the cost. These concerts aren’t just small events with local Christian bands. We’re talking about the top, nationally known, award-winning Christian artists, with headline acts costing anywhere from $30,000 to $100,000, and even many of the opening acts being in the $10,000 range.

The cost of these concerts led MRFF’s research department to start looking at some of the DoD contracts for other “spiritual fitness” events and programs, and what we found was astounding. One contract, for example, awarded to an outside consulting firm to provide “spiritual fitness” services, was for $3.5 million.

MRFF was already aware that exorbitant amounts of DoD funding were going to the hiring of civilian religious employees by military installations, the expenses of religious (almost exclusively evangelical Christian) programs, and extravagant religious facilities, but the extent of this spending goes far beyond what we had initially thought it amounted to. Therefore, MRFF has decided to launch an investigation into exactly how much the military is spending on promoting religion.

------------

I don't like my tax dollars going to "Ooga Booga".

It's harder for atheists in the military. They know they are sacrificing their only life for this country. Many of the religious think they will be "getting something" in return.

 

[theHawk]

U.S. Soldiers Punished for Not Attending Christian Concert : Veterans Today

And then there’s the cost. These concerts aren’t just small events with local Christian bands. We’re talking about the top, nationally known, award-winning Christian artists, with headline acts costing anywhere from $30,000 to $100,000, and even many of the opening acts being in the $10,000 range.

The cost of these concerts led MRFF’s research department to start looking at some of the DoD contracts for other “spiritual fitness” events and programs, and what we found was astounding. One contract, for example, awarded to an outside consulting firm to provide “spiritual fitness” services, was for $3.5 million.

MRFF was already aware that exorbitant amounts of DoD funding were going to the hiring of civilian religious employees by military installations, the expenses of religious (almost exclusively evangelical Christian) programs, and extravagant religious facilities, but the extent of this spending goes far beyond what we had initially thought it amounted to. Therefore, MRFF has decided to launch an investigation into exactly how much the military is spending on promoting religion.

------------

I don't like my tax dollars going to "Ooga Booga".

It's harder for atheists in the military. They know they are sacrificing their only life for this country. Many of the religious think they will be "getting something" in return.

You can not like it all you want. There isn't anything wrong or illegal about the military spending money to provide religious facilities, services, and events to its soldiers.

The government spending money on such things does not amount to "Congress passing a law respecting a religion."

 

[ConHog]

U.S. Soldiers Punished for Not Attending Christian Concert : Veterans Today

And then there’s the cost. These concerts aren’t just small events with local Christian bands. We’re talking about the top, nationally known, award-winning Christian artists, with headline acts costing anywhere from $30,000 to $100,000, and even many of the opening acts being in the $10,000 range.

The cost of these concerts led MRFF’s research department to start looking at some of the DoD contracts for other “spiritual fitness” events and programs, and what we found was astounding. One contract, for example, awarded to an outside consulting firm to provide “spiritual fitness” services, was for $3.5 million.

MRFF was already aware that exorbitant amounts of DoD funding were going to the hiring of civilian religious employees by military installations, the expenses of religious (almost exclusively evangelical Christian) programs, and extravagant religious facilities, but the extent of this spending goes far beyond what we had initially thought it amounted to. Therefore, MRFF has decided to launch an investigation into exactly how much the military is spending on promoting religion.

------------

I don't like my tax dollars going to "Ooga Booga".

It's harder for atheists in the military. They know they are sacrificing their only life for this country. Many of the religious think they will be "getting something" in return.

I wonder how much money the USG has spent worldwide since 2001 so that Islamic prisoners of war could practice their faith while prisoners of war. I bet the amount is beyond staggering

 

[Againsheila]

MILITARY RELIGIOUS FREEDOM FOUNDATION NOMINATED FOR 2010 NOBEL PEACE PRIZE

No offense, but seeing as how Obama got the peace prize just for being elected...well, it really doesn't mean what it used to....

 

[Againsheila]

Talk To Action | U.S. Soldiers Punished For Not Attending Christian Concert

On May 13, 2010, about eighty soldiers, stationed at Fort Eustis while attending a training course, were punished for opting out of attending one of these Christian concerts. The headliner at this concert was a Christian rock band called BarlowGirl, a band that describes itself as taking "an aggressive, almost warrior-like stance when it comes to spreading the gospel and serving God."

Any doubt that this was an evangelical Christian event was cleared up by the Army post's newspaper, the Fort Eustis Wheel, which ran an article after the concert that began:

"Following the Apostle Paul's message to the Ephesians in the Bible, Christian rock music's edgy, all-girl band BarlowGirl brought the armor of God to the warriors and families of Fort Eustis during another installment of the Commanding General's Spiritual Fitness Concert Series May 13 at Jacobs Theater."

"Those of us that chose not to attend (about 80, or a little less that half) were marched back to the company area. At that point the NCO issued us a punishment. We were to be on lock-down in the company (not released from duty), could not go anywhere on post (no PX, no library, etc). We were to go to strictly to the barracks and contact maintenance. If we were caught sitting in our rooms, in our beds, or having/handling electronics (cell phones, laptops, games) and doing anything other than maintenance, we would further have our weekend passes revoked and continue barracks maintenance for the entirety of the weekend. At that point the implied message was clear in my mind 'we gave you a choice to either satisfy us or disappoint us. Since you chose to disappoint us you will now have your freedoms suspended and contact chores while the rest of your buddies are enjoying a concert.'

"At that evening, nine of us chose to pursue an EO complaint. I was surprised to find out that a couple of the most offended soldiers were actually Christian themselves (Catholic). One of them was grown as a child in Cuba and this incident enraged him particularly as it brought memories of oppression."

In the Army.mil article, Maj. Gen. Chambers was quoted as saying, "The idea is not to be a proponent for any one religion. It's to have a mix of different performers with different religious backgrounds." But there has been no "mix of different performers with different religious backgrounds" at these concerts. Every one of them has had evangelical Christian performers, who typically not only perform their music but give their Christian testimony and read from the Bible in between songs.

So, thoughts USMB?

What is says about the author, I find disturbing: [editor - Talk To Action contributor Chris Rodda is Head Researcher for the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit that combats illegal and unconstitutional religious coercion in the United States military. Rodda is also author of Liars For Jesus: The Religious Right's Alternate Version of American History. MRFF was founded by Michael L. "Mikey" Weinstein, an Air Force Academy Honor Graduate who served in the first Reagan Administration. MRFF's work was the subject of a May 2009 Harper's Magazine story by journalist Jeff Sharlet, Jesus killed Mohammed: The crusade for a Christian military. For more reading on this subject, see Top Ten Ways to Convince the Muslims We're On a Crusade and this list of other additional Talk To Action stories concerning MRFF research.]

 

[rikules]

U.S. Soldiers Punished for Not Attending Christian Concert : Veterans Today

And then there’s the cost. These concerts aren’t just small events with local Christian bands. We’re talking about the top, nationally known, award-winning Christian artists, with headline acts costing anywhere from $30,000 to $100,000, and even many of the opening acts being in the $10,000 range.

The cost of these concerts led MRFF’s research department to start looking at some of the DoD contracts for other “spiritual fitness” events and programs, and what we found was astounding. One contract, for example, awarded to an outside consulting firm to provide “spiritual fitness” services, was for $3.5 million.

MRFF was already aware that exorbitant amounts of DoD funding were going to the hiring of civilian religious employees by military installations, the expenses of religious (almost exclusively evangelical Christian) programs, and extravagant religious facilities, but the extent of this spending goes far beyond what we had initially thought it amounted to. Therefore, MRFF has decided to launch an investigation into exactly how much the military is spending on promoting religion.

------------

I don't like my tax dollars going to "Ooga Booga".

It's harder for atheists in the military. They know they are sacrificing their only life for this country. Many of the religious think they will be "getting something" in return.

You can not like it all you want. There isn't anything wrong or illegal about the military spending money to provide religious facilities, services, and events to its soldiers.

The government spending money on such things does not amount to "Congress passing a law respecting a religion."

I have no problem with the military providing entertainment for the troops

In fact, I'm all for it!

It's good for morale!

but it should be diverse and inclusive

I have no problem with christian bands playing for the troops

but soldiers should have the right to attend or not attend without fear of punishment

I'm an atheist
and I'm also a musician
so I am aware of the fact that there are some excellent christian musicians (and some great tunes, even if I don't believe the words)

I would probably attend a christian concert just for the entertainment

(free tickets? heck, why not?)

 

[Againsheila]

Crappy source, let's see some corroborating evidence.

Man, you must of been so happy that DiamondDave said that so you can follow him on that one. Though you of all people saying that is ironic.

It IS a crappy source. If it really happened, I'm against it. Still, I can't take the author seriously, I mean really, "Jesus killed Muhammad?"