Two indicators that Obama may have 2012 in the bag

[zeke]

Obama has done nothing for anyone who isn't a union thug. Look at black unemployment. Look at black teenage unemployment.

What a stupid statement you made.

Where are all the jobs the "job creators" were putting together? You remember that line of bull shit don't you. That is the bull shit trotted out by your Repub masters whenever the idea is brought up about taxing the real rich more. "You can't tax the rich more they are creating the jobs.

well why don't they create a job for the poor black kids you are worrying about?

 

[Full-Auto]

A union job today is like a rent controlled apartment. Great if you luck into one, but someone else is making up the slack for it.

I thought it was more like winning the lottery. Living wage, benes, retirement, health care.

You know what? It was those union wages that forced non union companies to pay a living wage IF they wanted to attract productive workers. Now that union memebership has seriously declined, wages are declining as well. Why is that?

Did some union members abuse their jobs? Yes.

Did some management types abuse their jobs. Yes.

You want to get rid of management?

LOL Why dont you tell us the effect of the wage freeze from the 40s and how that plays in.

I bet you werent even aware, you seem that out of it.

 

[Peach]

We agree on a lot but I will say that you should have been around back in the late 1930's. The unemployment rate in west TN was about 50%. Grown men were crying because there was no way to put food on the table for their families. Hobos were getting off freight trains and going door to door begging. There was no such thing as unions, pay for overtime, hospitali ation, vacation, personal leave, pensions...any kind of benefit. If a foreman didn't like the way somebody combed their hair he fired them and selected somebody from the ten men waiting for his job. Men were working 12 hours in fields on a farm for $0.75 and their mid day meal.

The first regular paycheck my daddy ever drew was after he got a job as timekeeper on the WPA...about $6.00 a week. People today don't have a clue.

Guy, the 1930's were a long time ago. And FDR's policies probably prolonged the depression.

I think that the growth of unions was probably a good thing, but unions have become their own worst enemies. (And I say this growing up in a union household). A union job today is like a rent controlled apartment. Great if you luck into one, but someone else is making up the slack for it.

Now, yeah, we don't work like we did in the 1930's, but you know what, the technology has advanced. So that back-breaking work is now done by a machine. And the unions insist that six guys have to stand around and collect a paycheck while they watch the one guy operate that machine. Private enterprise can't operate like this, but the government insists we have to.

Which is why we are running up deficits of 1.5 trillion a year.

Seriously, both parties are full of shit.

You are putting forth some pretty naive opinions. If FDR had not initiated the WPA, CCC, RFD, TVA, etc. we probably wouldn't have won the WW2. Because the TN valley had built dams....the first one about 1934, the Manhatten project which separated enough uranium for the first atomic bomb might not have even happened. Hitler might have completed his nuke first.

Right now our infrastructure, power grids, dams and levees, schools, etc. are so run down and crumbling that if we don't put some people to work rebuilding it soon we might have to start over. Just why is it that Republicans are so hell bent against rebuilding the infrastructure Is it possible as simple as not wanting to see the president get credit for doing it. Is it possibly because they know that the economy would begin to revive at a quicker rate if they went along with it

Just what is their problem

FDR prolonged the Depression? Revisionist history; what part of WPA, CCC, and his other programs don't you understand? Ever drive from mainland Florida through the Keys? Thank FDR, those "prolonged the Depression" programs created the FERA which completed the overseas highway. There is a monument at Islamorada to the hundreds of workers who died in the hurricane of 1935.

 

[JoeB131]

I think both

parties are to blame for a lot of the mess.

For instance, if I had to list ONE THING that is causing most of our problems, it would be free trade.

Sending our manufacturing overseas, making American workers have to compete with people working in unsafe conditions, driving down wages, driving up unemployment, and sucking half a trillion out of our economy every year. Not to mention, turning China from a backward country with too many people into the second largest economy in the world.

Why would anyone think this was a good idea?

Many didn't think it was a good idea. But they were the union members losing their jobs. I live in what used to be one proud productive auto town. No more. There is only one auto related industry left in my nearby city. All those jobs are being done in Mexico or China or elsewhere.

And as it seems to me that most upper corporate executives vote Republican, then I would come to the conclusion that Repubs were more interested in shipping out American jobs than Dems were.

And I could be wrong but I don't think so.

But it isn't how they vote, it's where they contribute.

I did something here a while back, where I listed Romney and Obama's top donors.. and they were the same groups. The banks, the corporations...

Clinton was the one who did the most personal damage on Free trade. He signed GATT, NAFTA, WTO and MFN status for China.

Obama signed the latest pack of attrocities with Columbia and South Korea. I guess there were a few jobs they hadn't shipped overseas. Not to worry, though, he insisted on retraining programs for the people who will lose their jobs.

You see, this is where I think they are in cahoots. The Republicans want to maximize profits for Wall Street, and teh Democrats want to increase their power by making as many people as dependent on government as possible.

So really, no surprise, the policies that acheive that the most quickly are the one they agree on... "Free Trade."

 

[JoeB131]

FDR prolonged the Depression? Revisionist history; what part of WPA, CCC, and his other programs don't you understand? Ever drive from mainland Florida through the Keys? Thank FDR, those "prolonged the Depression" programs created the FERA which completed the overseas highway. There is a monument at Islamorada to the hundreds of workers who died in the hurricane of 1935.

The part I don't understand is what any of those things did to end the Depression.

They didn't do anything. Oh, they build a few nice things, some of which were useful, others were just make-work programs out in the middle of nowhere. Building "Bridges to Nowhere" wasn't anymore a good idea now as it was back then.

What got us out of the Depression was WWII. Because while the rest of the world destroyed itself, we were in the cat'sbird seat to sell them stuff. Had nothing to do with the New Deal at all. Unemployment was still at 15% when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor.

 

[zeke]

Clinton was a big problem for trade.

In his defense though, it seemed at the time that we in the USA were going to be making many products that would be sold around the world. And the idea that open markets exist seemed to be a good one.
Couple that with our number one export items, which are military items and food, then maybe the agreements were needed to be able to export those items.

In hindsight, good intentions went bad. At least Obama is talking about how to encourage American companies to relocate their manufacturing back in the USA.

 

[Truthmatters]

FDR prolonged the Depression? Revisionist history; what part of WPA, CCC, and his other programs don't you understand? Ever drive from mainland Florida through the Keys? Thank FDR, those "prolonged the Depression" programs created the FERA which completed the overseas highway. There is a monument at Islamorada to the hundreds of workers who died in the hurricane of 1935.

The part I don't understand is what any of those things did to end the Depression.

They didn't do anything. Oh, they build a few nice things, some of which were useful, others were just make-work programs out in the middle of nowhere. Building "Bridges to Nowhere" wasn't anymore a good idea now as it was back then.

What got us out of the Depression was WWII. Because while the rest of the world destroyed itself, we were in the cat'sbird seat to sell them stuff. Had nothing to do with the New Deal at all. Unemployment was still at 15% when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor.

you do realise war is government spending right?


Now heres how you can know the programs of FDR did indeed work as claimed.

The American people LOVED him.

They saw the results in their own lives.

Are you calling the generation who fought and won WWII liars?

 

[JoeB131]

You are putting forth some pretty naive opinions. If FDR had not initiated the WPA, CCC, RFD, TVA, etc. we probably wouldn't have won the WW2. Because the TN valley had built dams....the first one about 1934, the Manhatten project which separated enough uranium for the first atomic bomb might not have even happened. Hitler might have completed his nuke first.

Right now our infrastructure, power grids, dams and levees, schools, etc. are so run down and crumbling that if we don't put some people to work rebuilding it soon we might have to start over. Just why is it that Republicans are so hell bent against rebuilding the infrastructure Is it possible as simple as not wanting to see the president get credit for doing it. Is it possibly because they know that the economy would begin to revive at a quicker rate if they went along with it

Just what is their problem

The problem is, whenever a democrat talks about "rebuilding infrastructure", it usually means, "Taking a bunch of money to pay union thugs to stand around and pretend to be working." We could have never built those things with labor practices today. We spend close to 600 billion a year on infratructure when you combine federal and state expenditures. We aren't spending too little, we just aren't spending smart.

Here's how I would rebuild infrastructure. Put it out for bid to private contractors, the one who comes in lowest gets it, and he's contractually stuck with that bid. Period.

For the bolded portion, I've talked to a few people who think the TVA was a disaster because it chanced the whole eco-system of the region, and not for the better, which is why no one really talks about how we need more Hydro-electric today.

And Hitler was nowhere near ever getting a bomb. The Bomb was completely inconsequential to winning the war in Europe. Probalby meaningless in the Pacific War, too.

 

[Truthmatters]

Are you calling the generation who fought and won WWII liars?

 

[Peach]

FDR prolonged the Depression? Revisionist history; what part of WPA, CCC, and his other programs don't you understand? Ever drive from mainland Florida through the Keys? Thank FDR, those "prolonged the Depression" programs created the FERA which completed the overseas highway. There is a monument at Islamorada to the hundreds of workers who died in the hurricane of 1935.

The part I don't understand is what any of those things did to end the Depression.

They didn't do anything. Oh, they build a few nice things, some of which were useful, others were just make-work programs out in the middle of nowhere. Building "Bridges to Nowhere" wasn't anymore a good idea now as it was back then.

What got us out of the Depression was WWII. Because while the rest of the world destroyed itself, we were in the cat'sbird seat to sell them stuff. Had nothing to do with the New Deal at all. Unemployment was still at 15% when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor.

The overseas bridge connected mainland Florida through the Keys; not a "bridge to nowhere". Yes, WWII pulled us fully out of the depression. Still, the economy was going UP from 1934 until a slump in 1938. FDR held us together; REAL Marxists were getting some support in the Hoover years and some Fascists also. FDR saved the US from possible disintegration.
************************************

PS: I consider Marxism and Fascism just two sides of the same coin. That is why I do not toss out the words lightly. Those that attacked us 9/11/01 were fascist, which makes all the "COMMIE/MARXIST threads so absurd. Nary a word against Islmofascists, just MARXIXTMARXISTMARXIST.

 

[JoeB131]

FDR prolonged the Depression? Revisionist history; what part of WPA, CCC, and his other programs don't you understand? Ever drive from mainland Florida through the Keys? Thank FDR, those "prolonged the Depression" programs created the FERA which completed the overseas highway. There is a monument at Islamorada to the hundreds of workers who died in the hurricane of 1935.

The part I don't understand is what any of those things did to end the Depression.

They didn't do anything. Oh, they build a few nice things, some of which were useful, others were just make-work programs out in the middle of nowhere. Building "Bridges to Nowhere" wasn't anymore a good idea now as it was back then.

What got us out of the Depression was WWII. Because while the rest of the world destroyed itself, we were in the cat'sbird seat to sell them stuff. Had nothing to do with the New Deal at all. Unemployment was still at 15% when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor.

you do realise war is government spending right?

Now heres how you can know the programs of FDR did indeed work as claimed.

The American people LOVED him.

They saw the results in their own lives.

Are you calling the generation who fought and won WWII liars?

The war was only part of the equation. The other part was the trade, all those countries buying our manufactured and agricultural goods beause the war had destroyed their ability to make their own. ANd that continued for years after the war was done.

My Dad grew up in that era and fought in WWII, and he thought FDR was an idiot.

I'm a little more charitable. I think he showed some serious leadership. And led us down the path where government is too big, too bloated.

The ironic thing is, today, we are stuck making cuts that are unavoidable because the trade situation after WWII made it possible to support this kind of Keynsian spending. there was plenty of private money to be fleeced. Now, not so much.

 

[The Rabbi]

We agree on a lot but I will say that you should have been around back in the late 1930's. The unemployment rate in west TN was about 50%. Grown men were crying because there was no way to put food on the table for their families. Hobos were getting off freight trains and going door to door begging. There was no such thing as unions, pay for overtime, hospitali ation, vacation, personal leave, pensions...any kind of benefit. If a foreman didn't like the way somebody combed their hair he fired them and selected somebody from the ten men waiting for his job. Men were working 12 hours in fields on a farm for $0.75 and their mid day meal.

The first regular paycheck my daddy ever drew was after he got a job as timekeeper on the WPA...about $6.00 a week. People today don't have a clue.

I didnt realize Barack Obama was president in the 1930s.
You know that if Roosevelt hadn't pushed a bunch of socialist programs the country would have recovered within 18 months and your daddy could go back to cleaning spittoons in bar rooms, right?

Obama has done nothing for anyone who isn't a union thug. Look at black unemployment. Look at black teenage unemployment. Those at the bottom of the working rung have had that rung pulled out from under them as regulations and rising min wage requirements have zapped their jobs. Now they are doomed to be welfare dependents.

Your naivity is only exceeded by your goddam ignorance.

Translation: He sure is right but darned I can't admit that.
Thanks!

 

[The Rabbi]

Obama has done nothing for anyone who isn't a union thug. Look at black unemployment. Look at black teenage unemployment.

What a stupid statement you made.

Where are all the jobs the "job creators" were putting together? You remember that line of bull shit don't you. That is the bull shit trotted out by your Repub masters whenever the idea is brought up about taxing the real rich more. "You can't tax the rich more they are creating the jobs.

well why don't they create a job for the poor black kids you are worrying about?

So remind me what Obama has done to reduce black teenaged unemployment, currently around 40%.

 

[Seawytch]

Obama will have 2012 in the bag because we rarely throw out incumbants, even when they make a total mess of things. If we do, it's usually because their party has been in for a while.

The last time we threw out a president when his party held the presidency for only 4 years was 1980. The time before that 1892, and even that was kind of questionable because the guy hadn't actually won the popular vote in 1888.

Of course, you might want to be careful what you wish for.

Obama will be a lame duck in his second term the minute he's sworn in. The Republicans will probably take the Senate, they'll probably keep the house. Then 2014 will roll around, and he'll get creamed. (Fully 8 Senate pickups from 2008 now coming up for re-election).

That's why I don't get worked up when these RINO's tell me that I have to get behind Mitt Romney or we'll have four years of locust and plagues...

Don't count your Senate and House chickens before they hatch either. Republicans keep sticking up for the 1% to the detriment of the 99%...and people know it.

Congressional approval rating is at an all time low. 70 something percent of Americans want increased taxes on the wealthiest and the GOP has been voting against it time and again.

 

[Truthmatters]

The part I don't understand is what any of those things did to end the Depression.

They didn't do anything. Oh, they build a few nice things, some of which were useful, others were just make-work programs out in the middle of nowhere. Building "Bridges to Nowhere" wasn't anymore a good idea now as it was back then.

What got us out of the Depression was WWII. Because while the rest of the world destroyed itself, we were in the cat'sbird seat to sell them stuff. Had nothing to do with the New Deal at all. Unemployment was still at 15% when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor.

you do realise war is government spending right?

Now heres how you can know the programs of FDR did indeed work as claimed.

The American people LOVED him.

They saw the results in their own lives.

Are you calling the generation who fought and won WWII liars?

The war was only part of the equation. The other part was the trade, all those countries buying our manufactured and agricultural goods beause the war had destroyed their ability to make their own. ANd that continued for years after the war was done. the recovery stared BEFORE we went to war, numbers matter

My Dad grew up in that era and fought in WWII, and he thought FDR was an idiot.he was in a tiny minority

I'm a little more charitable. I think he showed some serious leadership. And led us down the path where government is too big, too bloated. what if most of the American peopel dont agree with you?

The ironic thing is, today, we are stuck making cuts that are unavoidable because the trade situation after WWII made it possible to support this kind of Keynsian spending. there was plenty of private money to be fleeced. Now, not so much.

You are still calling the vast majority of Americans at the time liars with your claims.

 

[The Rabbi]

Obama will have 2012 in the bag because we rarely throw out incumbants, even when they make a total mess of things. If we do, it's usually because their party has been in for a while.

The last time we threw out a president when his party held the presidency for only 4 years was 1980. The time before that 1892, and even that was kind of questionable because the guy hadn't actually won the popular vote in 1888.

Of course, you might want to be careful what you wish for.

Obama will be a lame duck in his second term the minute he's sworn in. The Republicans will probably take the Senate, they'll probably keep the house. Then 2014 will roll around, and he'll get creamed. (Fully 8 Senate pickups from 2008 now coming up for re-election).

That's why I don't get worked up when these RINO's tell me that I have to get behind Mitt Romney or we'll have four years of locust and plagues...

Don't count your Senate and House chickens before they hatch either. Republicans keep sticking up for the 1% to the detriment of the 99%...and people know it.

Congressional approval rating is at an all time low. 70 something percent of Americans want increased taxes on the wealthiest and the GOP has been voting against it time and again.

Weren't you telling us that 2010 was a lock because the majority of people wanted more out of Obamacare?

 

[Peach]

The part I don't understand is what any of those things did to end the Depression.

They didn't do anything. Oh, they build a few nice things, some of which were useful, others were just make-work programs out in the middle of nowhere. Building "Bridges to Nowhere" wasn't anymore a good idea now as it was back then.

What got us out of the Depression was WWII. Because while the rest of the world destroyed itself, we were in the cat'sbird seat to sell them stuff. Had nothing to do with the New Deal at all. Unemployment was still at 15% when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor.

you do realise war is government spending right?

Now heres how you can know the programs of FDR did indeed work as claimed.

The American people LOVED him.

They saw the results in their own lives.

Are you calling the generation who fought and won WWII liars?

The war was only part of the equation. The other part was the trade, all those countries buying our manufactured and agricultural goods beause the war had destroyed their ability to make their own. ANd that continued for years after the war was done.

My Dad grew up in that era and fought in WWII, and he thought FDR was an idiot.

I'm a little more charitable. I think he showed some serious leadership. And led us down the path where government is too big, too bloated.

The ironic thing is, today, we are stuck making cuts that are unavoidable because the trade situation after WWII made it possible to support this kind of Keynsian spending. there was plenty of private money to be fleeced. Now, not so much.

My father fought in WWII at 17, admired FDR but preferred Truman. Still, the WPA, CCC, and other programs kept us together. Calling the man who saved the US from Marxism/Fascism and perhaps civil war an idiot is sad. He always ranks among the greatest Presidents when historians are polled. Government grows because WE all demand THINGS; without interstate highways, DEFENSE, and FEMA, we could have a smaller government. But with 300 million people it will never be as it was 100 years ago. I live in Florida with a conservative governor, Rick Scott. Before him, two terms of Jeb! No less regulation, in fact, more and more rules, regs, and policies.

 

[The Rabbi]

you do realise war is government spending right?

Now heres how you can know the programs of FDR did indeed work as claimed.

The American people LOVED him.

They saw the results in their own lives.

Are you calling the generation who fought and won WWII liars?

The war was only part of the equation. The other part was the trade, all those countries buying our manufactured and agricultural goods beause the war had destroyed their ability to make their own. ANd that continued for years after the war was done.

My Dad grew up in that era and fought in WWII, and he thought FDR was an idiot.

I'm a little more charitable. I think he showed some serious leadership. And led us down the path where government is too big, too bloated.

The ironic thing is, today, we are stuck making cuts that are unavoidable because the trade situation after WWII made it possible to support this kind of Keynsian spending. there was plenty of private money to be fleeced. Now, not so much.

My father fought in WWII at 17, admired FDR but preferred Truman. Still, the WPA, CCC, and other programs kept us together. Calling the man who saved the US from Marxism/Fascism and perhaps civil war an idiot is sad. He always ranks among the greatest Presidents when historians are polled. Government grows because WE all demand THINGS; without interstate highways, DEFENSE, and FEMA, we could have a smaller government. But with 300 million people it will never be as it was 100 years ago. I live in Florida with a conservative governor, Rick Scott. Before him, two terms of Jeb! No less regulation, in fact, more and more rules, regs, and policies.

Those programs kept us together in the poor house, you mean. Roosevelt's policies prolonged and deepened the Depression. This is undoubted.

 

[Billy000]

.

Not really sold on the social media vote thing, but that's interesting. I suspect Obama has 2012 in the bag when I look at the goofy circus that is the GOP field. Holy crap, Obama has to know how lucky he is.

.

Truth.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Two indicators that Obama may have 2012 in the bag

He dominates the social media:

Here is a prediction of the electoral vote. Obama wins 303 to 235:

Oh.....I thought you meant
Romney & Santorum.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3FnpaWQJO0]Gilda Radner Nevermind - YouTube[/ame]​