What's new
US Message Board 🦅 Political Discussion Forum

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Two death penalty cases in the news recently

Quantum Windbag

Gold Member
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
58,308
Reaction score
5,094
Points
245
With all the news about Georgia executing Troy Davis last night when witnesses recanted and Texas about to execute Duane Buck, I thought I would supply some background to both discussions.

Troy Davis was executed after a number of witnesses recanted their testimony, and all of this proves he is innocent. That is the broad claim made by death penalty activist and the media. Unfortunately, they are leaving out a few details.

Yes, those witnesses have now, twenty years and much badgering by anti-death penalty advocates later, recanted. A federal judge spent two days reviewing the evidence and the testimony last year and issued a 172 page order explaining why the witnesses recanting was “smoke and mirrors.”
In fact, one of the chief nuggets of the case is that there was no physical evidence. Except that is crap. There is the matter of Troy DavisÂ’s bloody clothes that youÂ’ve probably never heard of.
There was a .38 caliber gun. Both Troy Davis and the man DavisÂ’s team claims in the real murderer, Sylvester Coles, had a .38 caliber gun.
Davis’s gun had been used in another shooting and the gun casing were linked between both shootings. Everyone likes to gloss over that. They point out that the man who claimed Davis fired on him has now recanted — yet again 20 years later.
But here are some additional facts — if we’re going to deal with things that weren’t in contention twenty years ago.

There Is No Travesty of Justice in Georgia. Execute Troy Davis | RedState

As for Duane Buck and the testimony from a psychiatrist that the prosecution used to prove black people are more likely to commit more crimes, it seems there are a couple of details being missed there too.

The U.S. Court of Appeal for the Fifth Circuit found that Buck's lawyers, not the prosecution, initially called Quijano as an expert witness and "solicited testimony from him regarding the use of race Â… for predicting future dangerousness." "Buck and his counsel presumably made this strategic determination because they believed that the potential benefit of Dr. Quijano's ultimate conclusion that Buck was not likely to pose any future danger to society if he were incarcerated outweighed any risk of exposing the jury to Dr. Quijano's less favorable opinions," the court wrote.
The justices noted that prosecutors referenced Quijano's comments onrace only once during punishment phase cross-examination and did not include them in their final arguments.

Pardons board rejects Buck's bid to avoid execution - Houston Chronicle

The defense actually brought the guy in, and used him knowing his theories, and he actually argued that Buck was an exception.

I oppose the death penalty, but rarely get involved in the merits of individual cases because the facts rarely get reported completely, and people end up focusing on the distortions.
 

LAfrique

VIP Member
Joined
May 16, 2011
Messages
1,416
Reaction score
69
Points
83
With all the news about Georgia executing Troy Davis last night when witnesses recanted and Texas about to execute Duane Buck, I thought I would supply some background to both discussions.

Troy Davis was executed after a number of witnesses recanted their testimony, and all of this proves he is innocent. That is the broad claim made by death penalty activist and the media. Unfortunately, they are leaving out a few details.

Yes, those witnesses have now, twenty years and much badgering by anti-death penalty advocates later, recanted. A federal judge spent two days reviewing the evidence and the testimony last year and issued a 172 page order explaining why the witnesses recanting was “smoke and mirrors.”
In fact, one of the chief nuggets of the case is that there was no physical evidence. Except that is crap. There is the matter of Troy DavisÂ’s bloody clothes that youÂ’ve probably never heard of.
There was a .38 caliber gun. Both Troy Davis and the man DavisÂ’s team claims in the real murderer, Sylvester Coles, had a .38 caliber gun.
Davis’s gun had been used in another shooting and the gun casing were linked between both shootings. Everyone likes to gloss over that. They point out that the man who claimed Davis fired on him has now recanted — yet again 20 years later.
But here are some additional facts — if we’re going to deal with things that weren’t in contention twenty years ago.

There Is No Travesty of Justice in Georgia. Execute Troy Davis | RedState

As for Duane Buck and the testimony from a psychiatrist that the prosecution used to prove black people are more likely to commit more crimes, it seems there are a couple of details being missed there too.

The U.S. Court of Appeal for the Fifth Circuit found that Buck's lawyers, not the prosecution, initially called Quijano as an expert witness and "solicited testimony from him regarding the use of race Â… for predicting future dangerousness." "Buck and his counsel presumably made this strategic determination because they believed that the potential benefit of Dr. Quijano's ultimate conclusion that Buck was not likely to pose any future danger to society if he were incarcerated outweighed any risk of exposing the jury to Dr. Quijano's less favorable opinions," the court wrote.
The justices noted that prosecutors referenced Quijano's comments on race only once during punishment phase cross-examination and did not include them in their final arguments.

Pardons board rejects Buck's bid to avoid execution - Houston Chronicle

The defense actually brought the guy in, and used him knowing his theories, and he actually argued that Buck was an exception.

I oppose the death penalty, but rarely get involved in the merits of individual cases because the facts rarely get reported completely, and people end up focusing on the distortions.


Quantum, Troy Davis' case seemed to have been built around "shell casing." I do not understand how we can put anyone to death based on identical shell casing! And about "bloody" clothes, could it not be possible that the bloody clothes came from previous shooting allegedly committed by Davis?

I just do not like the idea of putting people to death on a case so ridden with doubts, and a case in which even alleged eyewitnesses have recanted stories.

As per Duane Buck: Duane Buck's case is very different from Troy Davis' case. I do not think anyone denies Buck's guilt. Buck's case is an open and shut case. I wish prosecutors or whoever had not made mention of race. I just hate to see taxpayers monies wasted for something so stupid and irrelevant to the case.
 

signelect

Rookie
Joined
Dec 10, 2010
Messages
1,863
Reaction score
219
Points
0
Location
Houston, TX
It always amazes me that when people look at a man who was involved in a brutal murder that they say, well he might not have done it. Has the bloody clothes, has done this kind of thing before, has the right gun, casing match. It is a shame that we have a group of people in our society who can't seem to obey the law and they need to be put away. I don't think we need to provide house, food and medical care for the rest of their sorry lives.
 

Cecilie1200

Diamond Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2008
Messages
52,562
Reaction score
14,286
Points
2,180
Location
Phoenix, AZ
With all the news about Georgia executing Troy Davis last night when witnesses recanted and Texas about to execute Duane Buck, I thought I would supply some background to both discussions.

Troy Davis was executed after a number of witnesses recanted their testimony, and all of this proves he is innocent. That is the broad claim made by death penalty activist and the media. Unfortunately, they are leaving out a few details.

Yes, those witnesses have now, twenty years and much badgering by anti-death penalty advocates later, recanted. A federal judge spent two days reviewing the evidence and the testimony last year and issued a 172 page order explaining why the witnesses recanting was “smoke and mirrors.”
In fact, one of the chief nuggets of the case is that there was no physical evidence. Except that is crap. There is the matter of Troy DavisÂ’s bloody clothes that youÂ’ve probably never heard of.
There was a .38 caliber gun. Both Troy Davis and the man DavisÂ’s team claims in the real murderer, Sylvester Coles, had a .38 caliber gun.
Davis’s gun had been used in another shooting and the gun casing were linked between both shootings. Everyone likes to gloss over that. They point out that the man who claimed Davis fired on him has now recanted — yet again 20 years later.
But here are some additional facts — if we’re going to deal with things that weren’t in contention twenty years ago.

There Is No Travesty of Justice in Georgia. Execute Troy Davis | RedState

As for Duane Buck and the testimony from a psychiatrist that the prosecution used to prove black people are more likely to commit more crimes, it seems there are a couple of details being missed there too.

The U.S. Court of Appeal for the Fifth Circuit found that Buck's lawyers, not the prosecution, initially called Quijano as an expert witness and "solicited testimony from him regarding the use of race Â… for predicting future dangerousness." "Buck and his counsel presumably made this strategic determination because they believed that the potential benefit of Dr. Quijano's ultimate conclusion that Buck was not likely to pose any future danger to society if he were incarcerated outweighed any risk of exposing the jury to Dr. Quijano's less favorable opinions," the court wrote.
The justices noted that prosecutors referenced Quijano's comments on race only once during punishment phase cross-examination and did not include them in their final arguments.

Pardons board rejects Buck's bid to avoid execution - Houston Chronicle

The defense actually brought the guy in, and used him knowing his theories, and he actually argued that Buck was an exception.

I oppose the death penalty, but rarely get involved in the merits of individual cases because the facts rarely get reported completely, and people end up focusing on the distortions.


Quantum, Troy Davis' case seemed to have been built around "shell casing." I do not understand how we can put anyone to death based on identical shell casing! And about "bloody" clothes, could it not be possible that the bloody clothes came from previous shooting allegedly committed by Davis?

I just do not like the idea of putting people to death on a case so ridden with doubts, and a case in which even alleged eyewitnesses have recanted stories.

As per Duane Buck: Duane Buck's case is very different from Troy Davis' case. I do not think anyone denies Buck's guilt. Buck's case is an open and shut case. I wish prosecutors or whoever had not made mention of race. I just hate to see taxpayers monies wasted for something so stupid and irrelevant to the case.

Actually, Troy Davis's case was built around 34 witnesses against him, only two of whom ACTUALLY recanted, and both of which Davis and his attorney declined to use in court because they didn't believe the recantations would hold up under cross-examination.

As I understand it, the guy pistol-whipped a guy in a crowded Burger King parking lot, and when the cop shouted at him to stop, shot him. THEN he walked over to where the cop was lying and shot him AGAIN. In full view of whole droves of witnesses.

Am I wrong in any of the particulars here?
 

Wiseacre

Retired USAF Chief
Joined
Apr 8, 2011
Messages
6,025
Reaction score
1,297
Points
48
Location
San Antonio, TX
With all the news about Georgia executing Troy Davis last night when witnesses recanted and Texas about to execute Duane Buck, I thought I would supply some background to both discussions.

Troy Davis was executed after a number of witnesses recanted their testimony, and all of this proves he is innocent. That is the broad claim made by death penalty activist and the media. Unfortunately, they are leaving out a few details.



There Is No Travesty of Justice in Georgia. Execute Troy Davis | RedState

As for Duane Buck and the testimony from a psychiatrist that the prosecution used to prove black people are more likely to commit more crimes, it seems there are a couple of details being missed there too.



Pardons board rejects Buck's bid to avoid execution - Houston Chronicle

The defense actually brought the guy in, and used him knowing his theories, and he actually argued that Buck was an exception.

I oppose the death penalty, but rarely get involved in the merits of individual cases because the facts rarely get reported completely, and people end up focusing on the distortions.


Quantum, Troy Davis' case seemed to have been built around "shell casing." I do not understand how we can put anyone to death based on identical shell casing! And about "bloody" clothes, could it not be possible that the bloody clothes came from previous shooting allegedly committed by Davis?

I just do not like the idea of putting people to death on a case so ridden with doubts, and a case in which even alleged eyewitnesses have recanted stories.

As per Duane Buck: Duane Buck's case is very different from Troy Davis' case. I do not think anyone denies Buck's guilt. Buck's case is an open and shut case. I wish prosecutors or whoever had not made mention of race. I just hate to see taxpayers monies wasted for something so stupid and irrelevant to the case.

Actually, Troy Davis's case was built around 34 witnesses against him, only two of whom ACTUALLY recanted, and both of which Davis and his attorney declined to use in court because they didn't believe the recantations would hold up under cross-examination.

As I understand it, the guy pistol-whipped a guy in a crowded Burger King parking lot, and when the cop shouted at him to stop, shot him. THEN he walked over to where the cop was lying and shot him AGAIN. In full view of whole droves of witnesses.

Am I wrong in any of the particulars here?


Apparently not. To me it boils down to simple justice, if you deliberately take a life you should forfeit your own. Simple as that, don't care about statistics about deterrence.
 

DiAnna

Political Half-Breed
Joined
Jul 7, 2011
Messages
457
Reaction score
229
Points
178
Location
No Calif, in the Sierra Foothills
I'm not a fan of the death penalty, because too many people have been convicted on circumstantial evidence (or in some cases, prosecutorial misconduct) only to be exhonerated years later by DNA evidence. Executing innocents is not acceptable; death is forever.

However, there are cases so heinous, where guilt has been proven beyond all doubt, where I do not oppose the death penalty. Examples would be Gacy, Bundy, Dahmer, and others where the bodies are literally found on the premises and incontrovertible DNA evidence exists.

That was not the case in this instance. I am not convinced that Troy Davis was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, especially since his alleged victim was a police officer. The murder of a police officer puts extreme presssure on the D.A. to charge and convict someone. The case against Davis was extremely weak, based solely on eye-witness testimony, which is actually the most flawed type of evidence, as men convicted of rape by the victims definitive identification only to be found innocent based on later DNA evidence proves.

I don't feel good about this execution. The execution of Byrd's murderer, however, does not bother me in the least.
 
Last edited:

USMB Server Goals

Total amount
$142.00
Goal
$350.00

New Topics

Most reactions - Past 7 days

Forum List

Top