Turn deserts green as alternative theory on stabilization of the climate?

Is turning deserts green a win, win, win way to address stabilization of the climate?

  • No

    Votes: 6 50.0%
  • Yes

    Votes: 1 8.3%
  • Yes, at least this will produce more food which is a good thing for all of us.

    Votes: 2 16.7%
  • Other answer, please be specific in a reply

    Votes: 3 25.0%
  • No, only the Carbon Tax Theory will really work to stabilize the climate

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    12

DennisPTate

Gold Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2025
Messages
2,922
Reaction score
1,127
Points
163
My online friend Carl Cantrell has an alternative theory on stabilization of the climate that struck me as being exceptionally insightful and because it sounds a lot like statements in Isaiah chapter thirty five this is potentially not as divisive as the Al Gore, Carbon Tax Theory that practically put America into something of an intellectual Civil War.

We know that astonishingly good technology now exists to desalinate sea water on a massive scale. Obviously every cubic meter of sea water that is desalinated and ends up replenishing a depleted underground aquifer in a nation that has lots of desert sounds like great news for anybody who owns real estate that is vulnerable to the threat of rising ocean levels.

Global Warming II by Carl Cantrell

So how is our problem of continental drying causing global warming? It all has to do with vegetation and sunlight. When sun light hits a plant, it causes a process which we call photosynthesis where the energy from the sun light creates oxygen for us to breath, water for us to drink, and is stored as sugar for plants and animals to use. When the same sun light hits the soil, all of its energy turns into heat and is radiated back into the atmosphere, carried away by running surface water such as rain fall, is carried away to other areas by our winds, and diffuses down into the soil towards the earth's crust. All of this warms our planet increasing its average temperature.

Therefore, the less vegetation you have on the planet, the more sunlight is being turned into heat and the warmer the planet becomes. This is very critical because warmer and dryer winds dry out other land areas faster decreasing the vegetation on those land areas. Less humidity in the air also reflects less sun light back out into space so that more sun light strikes the earth and more heat is generated.

The truth is that you can do more to decrease global warming by just reducing the average temperature for the Sahara Desert by one or two degrees than if we humans completely quit using fossil fuels and returned to the cave.

So, how would you start working to resolve this problem? Easy, cool the deserts and get some vegetation growing on them as soon as possible. But the method is much more complex than that. You have to use the prevailing trade winds in relation to the deserts to get the best results as quickly as possible and it will be extremely expensive.

Then we build desalination plants along the coast near these water sheds and pipe water to the tops or ridges of the water sheds

This will do a number of things. First, it will increase the moisture in the desert soil so that it will develop water tables and water will begin to run in the streams. This water will increase the amount of vegetation in the area and decrease the amount of heat being generated by sun light cooling the watered area and all areas down wind of the watered area. As more available water evaporates, it will cool the air and reflect more sun light back out into space cooling the area even more. Cooler and more humid air will have less of a heating effect on areas down wind and will reflect more sun light back into space in those areas cooling areas we won't be watering yet. Cooler and more humid air will also have less of a warming effect on our seas and oceans.

Rain water running off of cooler soil will decrease the heating effect on our oceans and our planet crusts which will decrease catastrophic storm activities for other areas and seismic activity for the entire planet. Also, returning more ocean water to the surface and aquifers of our continents will lower the sea levels providing more usable land for us to farm and build on.

With cooler desert areas and increasing vegetation, less water will evaporate from our deserts increasing the amount of surface water even more and increasing the amount of vegetation and animal life by huge amounts because deserts currently take up more than 20% of our land surface. Populations will be able to spread out and there will be less competition for existing land areas.

This strategy has to be done in steps with the first step being to begin slowing the rate at which our global warming is increasing. We need to focus on that until we have brought it to a point to where the temperature is not increasing any more and is reasonably stable. While we are doing this, we need to come to a global consensus of just how cool we want to cool our planet down to. If we cool it down too much, we will begin to have devastatingly harsh winters in large populated areas and even cause an ice age to set in.

Then we begin cooling the planet down to a point which will be most beneficial for all countries or the planet as a whole. We need to gradually bring the temperature down because there may be a lag effect in which the planet will continue cooling after we stop increasing our efforts to cool it off more. We may even want to stop cooling the planet once or twice before we reach our targeted temperatures to see if there is a lag effect


We need to start working on this as soon as possible because, if the planet reaches a point to where it is warming faster than our technology can possibly stop or reverse this warming trend, then our planet is lost and all life will cease to exist on this planet within a relatively short period of time. We will need to start with the largest and hottest deserts because cooling them will have the greatest benefit in the least time. (Global Warming II by biologist Carl Cantrell).


I believe that the Carl Cantrell alternative theory on stabilization of the climate has the potential to play a part in the Part Two to the Abraham Peace Accords. There is an ancient Islamic prediction for our time period that fits amazingly well with what Carl has proposed.


Book 005, Number 2208:
"Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (way peace be upon him) as saying: The Last Hour will not come before wealth becomes abundant and overflowing, so much so that a man takes Zakat out of his property and cannot find anyone to accept it from him and till the land of Arabia becomes meadows and rivers."
SAHIH MUSLIM, BOOK 25: The Book on General Behaviour (Kitab Al-Adab)
 
I'm afraid the evidence we have makes for wetter desert areas under warmer conditions ...



It's okay ... almost everyone makes the same mistake ... colder temperatures cause deserts, warmer temperatures cause grasslands ... God wants us to burn tires ...
 
I'm afraid the evidence we have makes for wetter desert areas under warmer conditions ...



It's okay ... almost everyone makes the same mistake ... colder temperatures cause deserts, warmer temperatures cause grasslands ... God wants us to burn tires ...

Thank you for this video. The Global Dimming Effect theory seems to put a very different spin on the question of stabilization of the climate than Mr. Al Gore gave in his documentary, [or infomercial], "An Inconvenient Truth."

I agree with Chaim Henry Tejman M. D. that trees and plants hold the key to stabilization of the climate.

"Our environment is obviously undergoing major changes, and I believe that trees have a vital role in the atmospheric balance. Trees possess the ability to absorb much of the incoming energy. Gradually, trees that have absorbed energy submerge beneath the ground and turn into coal. Mankind is presently consuming unprecedented amounts of energy. Instead of storing the energy, like nature, we are releasing it into the atmosphere. Therefore, an international effort must be made to stop cutting down trees and to plant as many more as possible."
[Chaim Henry Tejman M. D.]
 
It's always unknown what the unintended consequences of tampering with ecosystems will be.
One example is that after WWII the real estate people in Florida did their best to "drain the swamp". The results were sinkholes, among other unpleasant things. Today, work is being done to restore and preserve the Florida swamps.
A second example is during the same time period, the same type of real estate people around Phoenix AZ wanted to "turn the desert green". Today, water is in short supply, there are sinkholes and work is being done to restore and preserve the Arizona desert.
An old midrasha says that when the Lord was finished with the locusts that he sent to plague Egypt, he banished them to the Great Sahara Forest. Apparently we humans don't learn or remember the knowledge that the ancients knew
 
Thank you for this video. The Global Dimming Effect theory seems to put a very different spin on the question of stabilization of the climate than Mr. Al Gore gave in his documentary, [or infomercial], "An Inconvenient Truth."

I agree with Chaim Henry Tejman M. D. that trees and plants hold the key to stabilization of the climate.

Why do you think the climate is unstable? ... temperatures are up only a single degree, and none of the other meteorological parameters are changing ... deserts will always be dry not because of climate, but because of latitude and the large scale circulation system ...

Sure ... trees would help ... but the land runs $10,000 an acre, $5 million a square mile ... a quarter trillion dollars just to replant Indiana ... and that's way to little to make any difference ... we humans have scarred the planet's face to deeply, only our removal can save these ecosystems ...

I'm more of a "managing" environmentalist ... God gave us dominion over the beasts of the field, doesn't mean we should exploit resources for our own selfish greed ... do we want our elder widow wimin housed safe and dry? .... then trees got to die ... I'm a carpenter, you can believe me on this ... that doesn't mean I want to cut down every last tree I see ...

I'm a climate change denier of the third degree ...
I agree temperatures are rising ...
I agree mankind contributes to this ...
But it's too little to have catastrophic effects ...

There are better reasons to curtail our fossil fuel use ... starting with Hamas funding ...
 
Why do you think the climate is unstable? ... temperatures are up only a single degree, and none of the other meteorological parameters are changing ... deserts will always be dry not because of climate, but because of latitude and the large scale circulation system ...

Sure ... trees would help ... but the land runs $10,000 an acre, $5 million a square mile ... a quarter trillion dollars just to replant Indiana ... and that's way to little to make any difference ... we humans have scarred the planet's face to deeply, only our removal can save these ecosystems ...

I'm more of a "managing" environmentalist ... God gave us dominion over the beasts of the field, doesn't mean we should exploit resources for our own selfish greed ... do we want our elder widow wimin housed safe and dry? .... then trees got to die ... I'm a carpenter, you can believe me on this ... that doesn't mean I want to cut down every last tree I see ...

I'm a climate change denier of the third degree ...
I agree temperatures are rising ...
I agree mankind contributes to this ...
But it's too little to have catastrophic effects ...

There are better reasons to curtail our fossil fuel use ... starting with Hamas funding ...
Or over the next two centuries there is a dramatic shift in the way that humans think and behave.

I guess some of the most impressive evidence for this is in Isaiah, Jeremiah and Ezekiel but there are some modern somewhat similar predictions that can give us some hope? Since his NDE was in 1982 his prediction for fifty years from then should be in place by 2032?

[Near death experiencer and former Atheist Mellen Benedict]:

10. What Is the Best Religion?​

I asked God: “What is the best religion on the planet? Which one is right?” And Godhead said, with great love: “I don’t care.” That was incredible grace.

....

" The clearing of the rain forest will slow down, and in fifty years there will be more trees on the planet than in a long time. If you are into ecology, go for it; you are that part of the system that is becoming aware. Go for it with all your might, but do not be depressed. It is part of a larger thing. Earth is in the process of domesticating itself. It is never again going to be as wild a place as it once was. There will be great wild places, reserves where nature thrives. Gardening and reserves will be the thing in the future. Population increase is getting very close to the optimal range of energy to cause a shift in consciousness. That shift in consciousness will change politics, money, energy.
[Mellen Benedict]

 
It's always unknown what the unintended consequences of tampering with ecosystems will be.
One example is that after WWII the real estate people in Florida did their best to "drain the swamp". The results were sinkholes, among other unpleasant things. Today, work is being done to restore and preserve the Florida swamps.
A second example is during the same time period, the same type of real estate people around Phoenix AZ wanted to "turn the desert green". Today, water is in short supply, there are sinkholes and work is being done to restore and preserve the Arizona desert.
An old midrasha says that when the Lord was finished with the locusts that he sent to plague Egypt, he banished them to the Great Sahara Forest. Apparently we humans don't learn or remember the knowledge that the ancients knew

Those are all good points but Allan Savory Ph. D. believes that herd animals can turn deserts green. Backing them up with at least some sea water desalination seems logical though.


Can sheep save the planet? Yes! says Allan Savory
 
Those are all good points but Allan Savory Ph. D. believes that herd animals can turn deserts green. Backing them up with at least some sea water desalination seems logical though.


Can sheep save the planet? Yes! says Allan Savory

He might be right, however he cannot know what the cost will be. That's the point I was making. We, collectively as humans, already turn portions of various deserts into farmland, and are just figuring out what we lost in the process.
As an aside, I personally live in a desert. I have about 2 acres I turned "green" to grow my own food and some other crops. Even at this small scale I can see the effects I have caused in the last ten years.
 
Those are all good points but Allan Savory Ph. D. believes that herd animals can turn deserts green. Backing them up with at least some sea water desalination seems logical though.


Can sheep save the planet? Yes! says Allan Savory


I hate to break the news to you ... but it's water that turns deserts green ... sheep would only take water away from the green plants ...

An example ... the Imperial Valley in California ... this is where our country gets fresh vegetables in winter ... it's warm and sunny year round ... the only thing we needed was Colorado River water ... much cheaper than desalinated sea water ...

And again ... you didn't say why this needs to be done ... why pump money into a pink elephant? ... the climate's been around for 4.6 billion years, she can take care of herself ...
 
He might be right, however he cannot know what the cost will be. That's the point I was making. We, collectively as humans, already turn portions of various deserts into farmland, and are just figuring out what we lost in the process.
As an aside, I personally live in a desert. I have about 2 acres I turned "green" to grow my own food and some other crops. Even at this small scale I can see the effects I have caused in the last ten years.
Wow!

But the risks of not getting desalinated H2O into desert area is great as well. It is estimated that if ocean levels were to rise by one meter then at least twenty to eighty million climate change refugees would be created in Bangladesh alone. Many of them would likely want to move to India but India is crowded already.

The instability of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet due to it being anchored below sea level causes mega-scale desalination of sea water to look like a pretty good alternative. [I have to admit though that I promote this idea largely to give people a reason to support a more practical solution than a Carbon Tax].

The West Antarctic Ice Sheet (WAIS) is the segment of the continental ice sheet that covers West Antarctica, the portion of Antarctica on the side of the Transantarctic Mountains that lies in the Western Hemisphere. It is classified as a marine-based ice sheet, meaning that its bed lies well below sea level and its edges flow into floating ice shelves. The WAIS is bounded by the Ross Ice Shelf, the Ronne Ice Shelf, and outlet glaciers that drain into the Amundsen Sea

 
I hate to break the news to you ... but it's water that turns deserts green ... sheep would only take water away from the green plants ...

An example ... the Imperial Valley in California ... this is where our country gets fresh vegetables in winter ... it's warm and sunny year round ... the only thing we needed was Colorado River water ... much cheaper than desalinated sea water ...

And again ... you didn't say why this needs to be done ... why pump money into a pink elephant? ... the climate's been around for 4.6 billion years, she can take care of herself ...

The extreme Greens in the government of California have killed several well planned and fully financed proposal to desalinate sea water on a large scale and send it by pipeline to Las Vegas as well as to the drought stricken areas of California but there are extreme members of the Environmentalism Movement in California who use technicalities to kill every such proposal. Turning deserts green needs to be generally respect a lot more than has been the case over these past decades.

The California Coastal Commission unanimously rejected the proposed Huntington Beach desalination plant in May 2022. The reasons for rejection included concerns about the project's potential harm to marine life, its high cost, and potential impacts on environmental justice and sea-level rise adaptation policies. The commission stated the project failed to adhere to marine life protection policies and policies aimed at minimizing hazards from climate change.




Extreme environmentalists come up with reasoning that is terribly flawed. Los Vegas would fully fund a desalination plant plus pipeline but Extreme Environmentalists are not people who can be reasoned with.
 
Wow!

But the risks of not getting desalinated H2O into desert area is great as well. It is estimated that if ocean levels were to rise by one meter then at least twenty to eighty million climate change refugees would be created in Bangladesh alone. Many of them would likely want to move to India but India is crowded already.

The instability of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet due to it being anchored below sea level causes mega-scale desalination of sea water to look like a pretty good alternative. [I have to admit though that I promote this idea largely to give people a reason to support a more practical solution than a Carbon Tax].
The link you provided in the op outlines something that would have to be done on a very large scale to be feasible. In addition, you are talking about doing something to feed potentially millions of people, and the animals that support them . I Don't see an issue with desalinization of sea water, as the minerals removed could simply be dumped back into the sea with probably no effect. (Probably, it's a big ocean)
Perhaps if this was done on a "checkerboard" system, to preserve half the desert as it now exists it may work. I would think it's something that deserves to be studied.
But.....
What if the disaster you describe simply doesn't happen? Additionally, I am someone who believes we (again collectively) would be a lot better off with a lot less people. Imagine a world with half as many people.....
20-40 million people is just a drop in the proverbial bucket. Not to sound callus, but we could stand to lose a lot more than that.
 
I'm afraid the evidence we have makes for wetter desert areas under warmer conditions ...



It's okay ... almost everyone makes the same mistake ... colder temperatures cause deserts, warmer temperatures cause grasslands ... God wants us to burn tires ...


Not really. You can have the same temperatures and have wet or dry. One big thing for wet is mountains. Australia has a huge desert because there are no mountains on the east coast. South America has a lot of fertile soil because it has huge mountains on the east coast.
 
I have a friend that lives in Arizona across from a desert region. When it rains the desert turns green.
 
The link you provided in the op outlines something that would have to be done on a very large scale to be feasible. In addition, you are talking about doing something to feed potentially millions of people, and the animals that support them . I Don't see an issue with desalinization of sea water, as the minerals removed could simply be dumped back into the sea with probably no effect. (Probably, it's a big ocean)
Perhaps if this was done on a "checkerboard" system, to preserve half the desert as it now exists it may work. I would think it's something that deserves to be studied.
But.....
What if the disaster you describe simply doesn't happen? Additionally, I am someone who believes we (again collectively) would be a lot better off with a lot less people. Imagine a world with half as many people.....
20-40 million people is just a drop in the proverbial bucket. Not to sound callus, but we could stand to lose a lot more than that.

It seems that with his lecture entitled "Innovating to zero" Bill Gates became the poster boy for the movement to reduce the world's population.

I believe that there is a positive alternative to what Bill Gates proposed and yes, I absolutely agree with you that this needs to be done on something of a "checkerboard" plan to leave large areas as still being desert.

The Bill Gates "Innovating to zero" script was probably passed to him by influential "Neo-Malthusians." I disagree with the Bill Gates proposal.

Neo-Malthusianism is the advocacy of human population planning to ensure resources and environmental integrities for current and future human populations as well as for other species.<a href="Malthusianism - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>2<span>]</span></a> In Britain the term "Malthusian" can also refer more specifically to arguments made in favour of family planning, hence organizations such as the Malthusian League.<a href="Malthusianism - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>8<span>]</span></a> Neo-Malthusians differ from Malthus's theories mainly in their support for the use of birth control. Malthus, a devout Christian, believed that "self-control" (i.e., abstinence) was preferable to artificial birth control. He also worried that the effect of contraceptive use would be too powerful in curbing growth; it was commonly believed in the 18th century (including by Malthus) that a steadily growing population remained a necessary factor in the continuing "progress of society", generally. Modern neo-Malthusians are generally more concerned than Malthus with environmental degradation and catastrophic famine than with poverty.

 
I have a friend that lives in Arizona across from a desert region. When it rains the desert turns green.

If California would permit some of those desalination plans to go ahead there are investors who might just want to make at least part of that desert area green for most of the year.
 
15th post
I'm afraid the evidence we have makes for wetter desert areas under warmer conditions ...



It's okay ... almost everyone makes the same mistake ... colder temperatures cause deserts, warmer temperatures cause grasslands ... Go he wantsd wants us to burn tires ...

The Sahara is greening again.


If you do believe in God, He apparently does what he wants.
 
If California would permit some of those desalination plans to go ahead there are investors who might just want to make at least part of that desert area green for most of the year.
Indeed however, Newsom thinks its better to spend billions on a useless high speed rail going nowhere.
 
The Sahara is greening again.


If you do believe in God, He apparently does what he wants.
True, a part of this will be natural. Atmospheric CO2 seems to be greatly increasing the amount of foliage on trees as well as the abundance of other types of vegetation.


Carbon Dioxide Fertilization Greening Earth, Study Finds​

The headshot image of Karl B. Hille

Karl B. Hille​

APR 26, 2016
ARTICLE
From a quarter to half of Earth’s vegetated lands has shown significant greening over the last 35 years largely due to rising levels of atmospheric carbon dioxide, according to a new study published in the journal Nature Climate Change on April 25.

An international team of 32 authors from 24 institutions in eight countries led the effort, which involved using satellite data from NASA’s Moderate Resolution Imaging Spectrometer and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration’s Advanced Very High Resolution Radiometer instruments to help determine the leaf area index, or amount of leaf cover, over the planet’s vegetated regions. The greening represents an increase in leaves on plants and trees equivalent in area to two times the continental United States.


 
Indeed however, Newsom thinks its better to spend billions on a useless high speed rail going nowhere.

Yes, Newsom does not impress me as being somebody who has the courage to go against the influential Neo-Malthusians.
 
Back
Top Bottom