Turkey is attacking the Kurds, who were risking their lives for the US just last week..

[EvilCat Breath]

Turkey begins military offensive in Syria, Erdogan announces

Turkey begins military offensive into Syria after US pulled back troops - CNNPolitics

trump will be remembered as the spineless coward who turned his back on our allies....the Kurds....

This is just horrible. I want our troops out of the Middle East but not at the expense of the lives of those who did most of the fighting against isis.

I believe he did this for his own personal financial benefit. He has a trump towers in Turkey. I'm sure that pressure was put on him by Turkey using those towers.

trump put himself before the nation. Again.

So we should go to war with Turkey?

The Turks were going to move. The 50-100 US troops in the zone they want to control were not going to stop them.

Well, I dont think we needed to go to war with Turkey. All we really needed to do was stay put. It's not like that was a hot spot. In the last 5 years we lost 6 soldiers in the region while the Kurds lost 11,000 because they were the ones on the offensive.... for themselves yes, but also for us. It isnt telling the true story if people try to say the Kurds were only fighting for themselves, they knew they were also fighting for our objectives and at least, THEY thought that they were our ally.
If we had simply stayed put, was Turkey going to bomb us? I don't think so. I think there are many other places we could have brought troops home from Around the world, that would have had less a devastating effect on a population. I think it just wasnt the time to bring out troops yet..... at least not without attempting some negotiations first. Something to hold Erdogon to.
I don't believe Erdogon has real proof that the Kurds he's bombing now were PKK, the bombing was unprovoked and the Turks are really taking advantage of a situation and I think Trump really made a mistake here by not valuing the ally that the Kurds are to us.

The Kurds

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

then why are they calling for climate change changes globally?

What does that have to do with fighting one of their founding member's armies on the battlefield? You're a moron.

 

[jc456]

then why are they calling for climate change changes globally?

What does that have to do with fighting one of their founding member's armies on the battlefield? You're a moron.

you noted they didn't have authority. they have zero authority therefore in climate discussions. you want to bring in an argument, you get back my response.

 

[Katniss]

Yeah - that's a great position to take. Let's not try and do better. Let's just say we're justified because the other guy did it too.

LOOK, Katnip, take your holier than thou attitude and STICK IT. Where were you 10 - 15 years ago? I can't wait until the next Dem president is in office doing THE EXACT SAME THING to hear the pin drop.

Had Trump pulled out as the Left have bitched for him to do for years and Turkey not done a thing, you'd still bitch. Just last week another person here bitched that we had no business there, we were doing no good. When Obama pulled out of Iraq several years ago, ISIS swooped in. That Turkey is doing what they are doing is TURKEY'S PROBLEM, bitch to them. We are not the policemen of the world.

Trying to insult me shows how little you know me. shrug

What's also clear is that you would rather deflect and focus on what you think my political leanings are rather than address the point I was making.

The world is connected whether we like it or not. It's foolish to think that problems will remain regional. I agree we cannot police the world but we do have a role to play that is critical to our own national security.

 

[Synthaholic]

 

[Yarddog]

Turkey begins military offensive in Syria, Erdogan announces

Turkey begins military offensive into Syria after US pulled back troops - CNNPolitics

trump will be remembered as the spineless coward who turned his back on our allies....the Kurds....

This is just horrible. I want our troops out of the Middle East but not at the expense of the lives of those who did most of the fighting against isis.

I believe he did this for his own personal financial benefit. He has a trump towers in Turkey. I'm sure that pressure was put on him by Turkey using those towers.

trump put himself before the nation. Again.

So we should go to war with Turkey?

The Turks were going to move. The 50-100 US troops in the zone they want to control were not going to stop them.

Well, I dont think we needed to go to war with Turkey. All we really needed to do was stay put. It's not like that was a hot spot. In the last 5 years we lost 6 soldiers in the region while the Kurds lost 11,000 because they were the ones on the offensive.... for themselves yes, but also for us. It isnt telling the true story if people try to say the Kurds were only fighting for themselves, they knew they were also fighting for our objectives and at least, THEY thought that they were our ally.
If we had simply stayed put, was Turkey going to bomb us? I don't think so. I think there are many other places we could have brought troops home from Around the world, that would have had less a devastating effect on a population. I think it just wasnt the time to bring out troops yet..... at least not without attempting some negotiations first. Something to hold Erdogon to.
I don't believe Erdogon has real proof that the Kurds he's bombing now were PKK, the bombing was unprovoked and the Turks are really taking advantage of a situation and I think Trump really made a mistake here by not valuing the ally that the Kurds are to us.

The Kurds

And these are also the Kurds

Religious Tolerance
Despite various religious fundamentalist groups in the region, Kurdish people, and Kurdish Muslims in particular, are widely recognized to be one of the few cultures in the Middle East that practice religious tolerance. In a move of religious tolerance and equality, the Kurdish Regional Government (KRG), refused to accept teachers form the Central Iraqi Government in 2012, and declared that Kurdish schools would be religiously neutral.[2]

The KRG admits that its religious tolerance stems from a long history of suffering at the hands of “Islamic brothers.” Both their suffering, as well as their rich history have made Kurds particularly welcoming of other religions. The Kurdish people are not Arabs, but rather historically identify with the Medes, an ancient people described in the Bible. In fact, most Kurds were Christians long before they began converting to Islam in the sixth century.

Meanwhile, our great ally Turkey aligns itself with Iran, jails journalists, jails Americans wrongly, makes speaking Kurdish inside Turkey a crime punishable by jail although there are like 14 million of them who live inside Turkey.
Turks are just known for oppressing people and genocide, not really so great of an ally, although one by necessity as they are a leverage against Russia I suppose.

I'm not opposed to bringing our troops home, but I just disagree with the timing of this action and the immediate effects. We have like 70,000 troops overseas right now, we can choose to bring any of them home and these guys in Northern Syria were not in any particular danger as things were quite under control.
Having people on the ground that you can trust in that region of the world is a valuable thing. The Kurds were that to a great extent, as far as I can tell from listening to US service members who served over there. I think Trump has really just made a mistake and I hope he does some reversal.
I'm all about taking care of U.S. interests first, but we still need to show some loyalty to people who have been loyal to us. Why couldn't we have tried to hold Ergodon to some sort of agreement first? this could have waited, or at least we should have not caved in to this dictator so easily.

 

[kiwiman127]

Trump the draft Dodger has no respect for the lives lost and the act of a consistent ally.
Thousands of Kurds lost their lives while fighting by US forces in the fight against ISIS.. And this how Trump rewards them.
Trump the draft dodger has the blood of the Kurds on his hands.
Trump: ‘I will totally destroy the economy’

You disgusting warmongering piece of shit. How dare you advocate waging war on a country that is no threat to us on the grounds we waged war last week. Bloodthirsty coward. If you want to die for Israel, YOU go slaughter children in the desert, BUT LEAVE AMERICANS OUT OF IT, you amoral puke.

Bloodthirsty?
You are the one supporting the genocide of the Kurds, who did all the dirty work in Trump's self concertedly victory over ISIS while losing well over 10,99 fighters.
Piss off.

 

[Yarddog]

The problem with our policy is that we've never supported a Kurdish homeland, which would redraw the borders but would still be the right thing to do. Autonomous Kurdish enclaves in Iraq and Syria threaten Turkey, so their corrupt regime is taking action.... and Trump is betraying our allies.

NEWSFLASH for ya Joe ~ ~ ~ ~ I'd like to see a Kurdistan too. I like the Kurds. But as long as we've had parallel interests, the USA has been hot and cold with them. We help them only as far as it interests us. It's really their fight not ours. But you shouldn't be too surprised we walk on our allies, our government has used, abused and screwed with most everyone whom it dealt with for 250 years from the Kurds and many others around the globe to the Iranians, Iraqis, Puerto Rico, the Blacks, the Native Americans right down to its own citizens, you and I. We are just a number to the government, dead meat, useful to pay them taxes, that is it.

Sad but true, though.... I understand people who say it is their fight and not ours, I really do. America's interest first but, in this case in particular, it would not have taken very much Fight at all. We simply had to let 100 or so troops remain where they were while we attempted some diplomacy first.

I really think the Kurds are hated by everyone else in that region of the world because of their religious tolerance and independence from the "Islamist bloc" in other words they dont play along with the whole caliphate thing wanted by the Mullahs.. Kurds also used to be Christian before they were purged like the Christian Armenians were by the Turks... it sure doesn't seem fair to me to just dismiss them without a second thought.
I know the reality probably is those two military bases we have inside Turkey and it may be pay to play there. I get that, but we also have some leverage over Turkey as well I think as the worlds largest super power.

 

[jc456]

Yeah - that's a great position to take. Let's not try and do better. Let's just say we're justified because the other guy did it too.

LOOK, Katnip, take your holier than thou attitude and STICK IT. Where were you 10 - 15 years ago? I can't wait until the next Dem president is in office doing THE EXACT SAME THING to hear the pin drop.

Had Trump pulled out as the Left have bitched for him to do for years and Turkey not done a thing, you'd still bitch. Just last week another person here bitched that we had no business there, we were doing no good. When Obama pulled out of Iraq several years ago, ISIS swooped in. That Turkey is doing what they are doing is TURKEY'S PROBLEM, bitch to them. We are not the policemen of the world.

Trying to insult me shows how little you know me. shrug

What's also clear is that you would rather deflect and focus on what you think my political leanings are rather than address the point I was making.

The world is connected whether we like it or not. It's foolish to think that problems will remain regional. I agree we cannot police the world but we do have a role to play that is critical to our own national security.

what does this mean if not to shame someone? there's is no argument in that post, it's worse than calling someone an insult. what a tool. wish to argue, post a thought.

Yeah - that's a great position to take. Let's not try and do better. Let's just say we're justified because the other guy did it too.

 

[Katniss]

Yeah - that's a great position to take. Let's not try and do better. Let's just say we're justified because the other guy did it too.

LOOK, Katnip, take your holier than thou attitude and STICK IT. Where were you 10 - 15 years ago? I can't wait until the next Dem president is in office doing THE EXACT SAME THING to hear the pin drop.

Had Trump pulled out as the Left have bitched for him to do for years and Turkey not done a thing, you'd still bitch. Just last week another person here bitched that we had no business there, we were doing no good. When Obama pulled out of Iraq several years ago, ISIS swooped in. That Turkey is doing what they are doing is TURKEY'S PROBLEM, bitch to them. We are not the policemen of the world.

Trying to insult me shows how little you know me. shrug

What's also clear is that you would rather deflect and focus on what you think my political leanings are rather than address the point I was making.

The world is connected whether we like it or not. It's foolish to think that problems will remain regional. I agree we cannot police the world but we do have a role to play that is critical to our own national security.

what does this mean if not to shame someone? there's is no argument in that post, it's worse than calling someone an insult. what a tool. wish to argue, post a thought.

Yeah - that's a great position to take. Let's not try and do better. Let's just say we're justified because the other guy did it too.

My post is as solid an argument as his/her post. When you have to support your position by claiming so and so did it too, or whatabout X, that tells me there is no legitimate defense.

Truth be told, any American that thinks this decision was a good one doesn't understand our foreign policy or our national security challenges. So......yeah, I guess it was a thinly veiled insult.

 

[jc456]

Yeah - that's a great position to take. Let's not try and do better. Let's just say we're justified because the other guy did it too.

LOOK, Katnip, take your holier than thou attitude and STICK IT. Where were you 10 - 15 years ago? I can't wait until the next Dem president is in office doing THE EXACT SAME THING to hear the pin drop.

Had Trump pulled out as the Left have bitched for him to do for years and Turkey not done a thing, you'd still bitch. Just last week another person here bitched that we had no business there, we were doing no good. When Obama pulled out of Iraq several years ago, ISIS swooped in. That Turkey is doing what they are doing is TURKEY'S PROBLEM, bitch to them. We are not the policemen of the world.

Trying to insult me shows how little you know me. shrug

What's also clear is that you would rather deflect and focus on what you think my political leanings are rather than address the point I was making.

The world is connected whether we like it or not. It's foolish to think that problems will remain regional. I agree we cannot police the world but we do have a role to play that is critical to our own national security.

what does this mean if not to shame someone? there's is no argument in that post, it's worse than calling someone an insult. what a tool. wish to argue, post a thought.

Yeah - that's a great position to take. Let's not try and do better. Let's just say we're justified because the other guy did it too.

My post is as solid an argument as his/her post. When you have to support your position by claiming so and so did it too, or whatabout X, that tells me there is no legitimate defense.

Truth be told, any American that thinks this decision was a good one doesn't understand our foreign policy or our national security challenges. So......yeah, I guess it was a thinly veiled insult.

My post is as solid an argument as his/her post.

Bullshit. shaming someone isn't an argument. so grow up and debate the issue. stop with the shaming. it's worse than insulting someone. so your irony is noted.

And on the so and so did it before, it is exactly an argument. you can't accept it, cause it doesn't align with your talking points. poor baby!!!

And ;you don't get to judge me, and I think pulling troops out is exactly the correct move. Too bad you don't like it. poor baby. I believe in America.

 

[toobfreak]

View attachment 283854

Welp, I guess the "Whistleblower" ploy was so good they had to milk that one for an extra week. Now we've moved onto the new Leftist psych-ops ploy of claiming Trump "betrayed" the Kurds (Tard Ploy #65) because he only hung in there three years longer than he wanted or should have.

 

[jc456]

LOOK, Katnip, take your holier than thou attitude and STICK IT. Where were you 10 - 15 years ago? I can't wait until the next Dem president is in office doing THE EXACT SAME THING to hear the pin drop.

Had Trump pulled out as the Left have bitched for him to do for years and Turkey not done a thing, you'd still bitch. Just last week another person here bitched that we had no business there, we were doing no good. When Obama pulled out of Iraq several years ago, ISIS swooped in. That Turkey is doing what they are doing is TURKEY'S PROBLEM, bitch to them. We are not the policemen of the world.

Trying to insult me shows how little you know me. shrug

What's also clear is that you would rather deflect and focus on what you think my political leanings are rather than address the point I was making.

The world is connected whether we like it or not. It's foolish to think that problems will remain regional. I agree we cannot police the world but we do have a role to play that is critical to our own national security.

what does this mean if not to shame someone? there's is no argument in that post, it's worse than calling someone an insult. what a tool. wish to argue, post a thought.

Yeah - that's a great position to take. Let's not try and do better. Let's just say we're justified because the other guy did it too.

My post is as solid an argument as his/her post. When you have to support your position by claiming so and so did it too, or whatabout X, that tells me there is no legitimate defense.

Truth be told, any American that thinks this decision was a good one doesn't understand our foreign policy or our national security challenges. So......yeah, I guess it was a thinly veiled insult.

My post is as solid an argument as his/her post.

Bullshit. shaming someone isn't an argument. so grow up and debate the issue. stop with the shaming. it's worse than insulting someone. so your irony is noted.

And on the so and so did it before, it is exactly an argument. you can't accept it, cause it doesn't align with your talking points. poor baby!!!

And ;you don't get to judge me, and I think pulling troops out is exactly the correct move. Too bad you don't like it. poor baby. I believe in America.

 

[JimH52]

trump is a souless coward.....

 

[JimH52]

[

"Beware of foreign entanglements"--Geprge Washington

TDS afflicted Moon Bats and Neocons, both ignoring that advice.

Asking Russia Ukraine and China for help doesn't fall into Washingtons advice ??

Where’s your precious UN?

How many years did we listen to these assholes talking UN everyday? Now we don’t need them for what they’re for? Too much

They certainly don't exist for unilateral UN occupations or to fight one of its founding members' armies on the battlefield. What is with you parroting this goofy talking point 50 times? Shaddupp already, jackass.

Jc shares the same mental deficiency that trump has....called LoB....Lack of Brain...

 

[MisterBeale]

Trump the draft Dodger has no respect for the lives lost and the act of a consistent ally.
Thousands of Kurds lost their lives while fighting by US forces in the fight against ISIS.. And this how Trump rewards them.
Trump the draft dodger has the blood of the Kurds on his hands.
Trump: ‘I will totally destroy the economy’

Explain to me how the Kurds were "risking their lives for the US just last week."

The US used surplus weapons, and used the CIA to train radical Islamists to create ISIS, so how were they ever a threat to us? They were a policy tool to bring down Assad and give us an excuse to intervene.

Why do you post lies?

 

[toobfreak]

The problem with our policy is that we've never supported a Kurdish homeland, which would redraw the borders but would still be the right thing to do. Autonomous Kurdish enclaves in Iraq and Syria threaten Turkey, so their corrupt regime is taking action.... and Trump is betraying our allies.

NEWSFLASH for ya Joe ~ ~ ~ ~ I'd like to see a Kurdistan too. I like the Kurds. But as long as we've had parallel interests, the USA has been hot and cold with them. We help them only as far as it interests us. It's really their fight not ours. But you shouldn't be too surprised we walk on our allies, our government has used, abused and screwed with most everyone whom it dealt with for 250 years from the Kurds and many others around the globe to the Iranians, Iraqis, Puerto Rico, the Blacks, the Native Americans right down to its own citizens, you and I. We are just a number to the government, dead meat, useful to pay them taxes, that is it.

Sad but true, though.... I understand people who say it is their fight and not ours, I really do. America's interest first but, in this case in particular, it would not have taken very much Fight at all. We simply had to let 100 or so troops remain where they were while we attempted some diplomacy first.
I really think the Kurds are hated by everyone else in that region of the world because of their religious tolerance and independence from the "Islamist bloc" in other words they dont play along with the whole caliphate thing wanted by the Mullahs.. Kurds also used to be Christian before they were purged like the Christian Armenians were by the Turks... it sure doesn't seem fair to me to just dismiss them without a second thought.
I know the reality probably is those two military bases we have inside Turkey and it may be pay to play there. I get that, but we also have some leverage over Turkey as well I think as the worlds largest super power.

Facts of the Matter:

• If diplomacy was going to work it already would have worked.
• That's a fine argument and as they always say: "In an ideal world." But that is essentially the same argument used to get us into Korea and Vietnam and look how those turned out.
• This thing has just started and it ain't over until its over.
• We are arguing in a vacuum. Everyone is saying what Trump ought to have done or not done but the truth of it is, we don't know 1% of the picture that Trump sees. If anyone here thinks they have the intelligence available to them and the "big picture" that the POTUS gets, they are just shitting themselves.
• A week ago, everyone here was railing about how pointless it was that we were there and that we had no business even being there.
• There's shit going on all over the world we could make better if only we had unlimited resources.
• There are 957 other countries in this world ~ ~ ~ ~ they are all free to move in there, help the Kurds and keep Turkey out. What's stopping them?
• The UN will handle it. Like they do everything else.
• Syria is on the the other side of the world; I have one interest in it, well, two, I like Syrian food and pipe smokers miss Syrian Latakia, a type of special tobacco they make. But there is a substitute: Cyprusian Latakia, not quite as good, but I can live with it.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Turkey begins military offensive in Syria, Erdogan announces

Turkey begins military offensive into Syria after US pulled back troops - CNNPolitics

trump will be remembered as the spineless coward who turned his back on our allies....the Kurds....

This is just horrible. I want our troops out of the Middle East but not at the expense of the lives of those who did most of the fighting against isis.

I believe he did this for his own personal financial benefit. He has a trump towers in Turkey. I'm sure that pressure was put on him by Turkey using those towers.

trump put himself before the nation. Again.

So we should go to war with Turkey?

The Turks were going to move. The 50-100 US troops in the zone they want to control were not going to stop them.

Well, I dont think we needed to go to war with Turkey. All we really needed to do was stay put. It's not like that was a hot spot. In the last 5 years we lost 6 soldiers in the region while the Kurds lost 11,000 because they were the ones on the offensive.... for themselves yes, but also for us. It isnt telling the true story if people try to say the Kurds were only fighting for themselves, they knew they were also fighting for our objectives and at least, THEY thought that they were our ally.
If we had simply stayed put, was Turkey going to bomb us? I don't think so. I think there are many other places we could have brought troops home from Around the world, that would have had less a devastating effect on a population. I think it just wasnt the time to bring out troops yet..... at least not without attempting some negotiations first. Something to hold Erdogon to.
I don't believe Erdogon has real proof that the Kurds he's bombing now were PKK, the bombing was unprovoked and the Turks are really taking advantage of a situation and I think Trump really made a mistake here by not valuing the ally that the Kurds are to us.

The Kurds

And these are also the Kurds

Religious Tolerance
Despite various religious fundamentalist groups in the region, Kurdish people, and Kurdish Muslims in particular, are widely recognized to be one of the few cultures in the Middle East that practice religious tolerance. In a move of religious tolerance and equality, the Kurdish Regional Government (KRG), refused to accept teachers form the Central Iraqi Government in 2012, and declared that Kurdish schools would be religiously neutral.[2]

The KRG admits that its religious tolerance stems from a long history of suffering at the hands of “Islamic brothers.” Both their suffering, as well as their rich history have made Kurds particularly welcoming of other religions. The Kurdish people are not Arabs, but rather historically identify with the Medes, an ancient people described in the Bible. In fact, most Kurds were Christians long before they began converting to Islam in the sixth century.

Meanwhile, our great ally Turkey aligns itself with Iran, jails journalists, jails Americans wrongly, makes speaking Kurdish inside Turkey a crime punishable by jail although there are like 14 million of them who live inside Turkey.
Turks are just known for oppressing people and genocide, not really so great of an ally, although one by necessity as they are a leverage against Russia I suppose.

I'm not opposed to bringing our troops home, but I just disagree with the timing of this action and the immediate effects. We have like 70,000 troops overseas right now, we can choose to bring any of them home and these guys in Northern Syria were not in any particular danger as things were quite under control.
Having people on the ground that you can trust in that region of the world is a valuable thing. The Kurds were that to a great extent, as far as I can tell from listening to US service members who served over there. I think Trump has really just made a mistake and I hope he does some reversal.
I'm all about taking care of U.S. interests first, but we still need to show some loyalty to people who have been loyal to us. Why couldn't we have tried to hold Ergodon to some sort of agreement first? this could have waited, or at least we should have not caved in to this dictator so easily.

The religious tolerance of the Kurds might have more to do with their anti religious communist leanings.

The Kurds never seemed particularly loyal to us. Our interests in the region dovetailed. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. The Kurds are basically communists that advanced themselves by terrorism. Even as they were fighting along side us they found enough energy to kill Turkish civilians.

 

[edward37]

I have said this for years, we have no business in the Middle East. We have no business anywhere in the world but here.

Why are we risking young American men and women? There is nothing to gain, let the world police themselves and stop interfering in other countries.

Pap maybe I missed it but can you show us the post you wrote blasting Trump for sending troops to protect the Saudis from Iranians?

I was all for Iran and Afghanistan until I found out we weren't there to win but to invade, to engage in a politically correct war. I see no reason to put American lives at risk for no real reason. I have been consistent in my criticism with us being over there. If we are not there to win, we have no business being there. I am not sure if I posted my disagreement with sending troops to protect the Saudis or not.

RIGHT NOW you have McConnell and Pelosi agreeing ,,,You have Sanders and Graham agreeing IF those 4 can agree who are you to tell them they're wrong?? Kurds are our Ally,,,,,,,Generals are speaking out and the moron in our wh has a bloodbath on his hands

It's a UN issue, not a US issue. Turkey is a NATO ally, we need to tread softly. Thank you for naming four Senators that I don't respect.

You mean 3 And no respect for them?? I call that a good start for you

 

[edward37]

Yeah - that's a great position to take. Let's not try and do better. Let's just say we're justified because the other guy did it too.

LOOK, Katnip, take your holier than thou attitude and STICK IT. Where were you 10 - 15 years ago? I can't wait until the next Dem president is in office doing THE EXACT SAME THING to hear the pin drop.

Had Trump pulled out as the Left have bitched for him to do for years and Turkey not done a thing, you'd still bitch. Just last week another person here bitched that we had no business there, we were doing no good. When Obama pulled out of Iraq several years ago, ISIS swooped in. That Turkey is doing what they are doing is TURKEY'S PROBLEM, bitch to them. We are not the policemen of the world.

Wasn't it GWB pulling troops out of Iraq?