Turkey and Europe’s Problem with Radical Islam

[Said1]

Good article, although somewhat repretative and altogether too optimistic given the obvious stretches the author has made in some of his conclusions. You'll see. It's farily long too.

Turkey opened accession talks with the European Union (EU) on October 3. In the aftermath of the March 2004 Madrid bombings, the November 2004 murder of film director Theo van Gogh in Amsterdam, and the July 2005 London bombings, all committed by radical Islamists, some people in Europe wonder whether Islam is compatible with European values and, accordingly, whether letting the predominantly Muslim Turkey join the EU is a good idea. Will Turkey’s EU accession compound Europe’s problem with radical Islam, or is Turkey’s version of Islam a panacea for Europe’s Islamist problem?

Does Europe Have a Muslim Problem?

Even if Muslims constitute only 4 percent of the overall EU population, Islam is the fastest growing religion in Europe, and most European countries already have visible Muslim communities. According to the Department of State’s International Religious Freedom Report 2004, France, with an estimated five million Muslims, is 8 percent Muslim. Muslims constitute 6 percent of the population in the Netherlands and 4 percent in Germany, Switzerland, Belgium, and Austria. Muslims comprise 10–25 percent of the population in Paris, London, Rotterdam, Copenhagen, Malmo, Marseilles, Birmingham, and Brussels.

But not all Muslims in Europe are turning to radical ideologies. On the one hand, Spain, with a predominantly Moroccan Muslim community, and Britain, home to mostly Pakistani Muslims, have been targets of Islamist attacks. France and Belgium, home to predominantly North African Muslims, are also witnessing radicalization. On the other hand, Germany and Austria, with predominantly Turkish Muslim communities, are not experiencing similar developments. Europe’s problem seems to be not with Islam but with specific groups on the continent. The Netherlands, whose Muslim community is dominated by two national elements, Turks and Moroccans, demonstrates this argument best. Of the 880,000 Muslims in the Netherlands, 34 percent are Moroccans and 40 percent are Turks, with the remainder being smaller communities of Muslims from Suriname, Indonesia, and elsewhere. While the Turks are yet to integrate fully into the Dutch society, they are standing away from the wave of Islamic radicalization that is sweeping Europe. The Hofstad Group to which van Gogh’s murderer Mohammed Bouyeri belonged had thirteen members of Moroccan origin (and two Dutch Antillean converts), but no Turks in its ranks.

Van Gogh Murder Exposes a Fault Line

Developments in the Netherlands since the van Gogh murder shed further light on this phenomenon. After the killing, the Turkish Aya Sofya Mosque in Amsterdam took the initiative of drafting a Protocol to Prevent Extremism and Radicalization in Mosques. The protocol, which the Mosque signed with Amsterdam city government in September 2005, aims to prevent radicalization in Mosques. The protocol stipulates, “Mosques will closely monitor extremist behavior from its early beginning. . . . The management, the Imam, and the visitors carry responsibility to avoid radicalization in Mosques.”

Two other Mosques—one, Ghousia Mashid, primarily serving Muslims of Pakistani origin and another, Nour Mosque, serving Moroccan Muslims—were also involved in the protocol when it was launched. But, later, both mosques rejected it. Ahmed Marcouch, the spokesman for the umbrella association of Moroccan mosques that includes the Nour Mosque, said on September 8, “We oppose the police-spirit woven in the document. It will backfire. If we sign this, these boys will refuse to come here. What good will that do? Our base has to trust that we will respect their privacy. This does not mean we support terrorism.”

In response to the Moroccan refusal to sign the protocol, Haci Karacaer, chairman of the Dutch Turkish umbrella organization under which the Aya Sofya Mosque operates, said, “The Moroccans refused to sign because they want to be neutral. No one has an obligation to be neutral in the face of terror.” Karacaer said Turkish mosques are not afraid to cooperate with the police, and urged the 450 mosques in Holland to send a strategic message by signing the protocol.

Continued

 

[ekrem]

Well, for example in Germany there is a turkish organization called "milli görüs" (national view) which is in the middle of islam and islamistic organization.

German Intelligence watches them. But they did not terrorist attacks, and they have a newspaper called "vakit" which provides anti-semitic news sold in germany and austria and Switzerland.
But now the fun of this story comes. Germany forbid this newspaper but not because of anti-semitism, but the newspaper had a photoshoped picture where it showed the german Minister for interior with Hitler hairs and hitler beard and the Hitler-salutation.
I have to add here, that this organization is forbidden in Turkey while Germany only watches them and leaves them enough room for example newspapers, own buildings and soon...


When you read German intelligence reports from ministry of the Interior Germany sees the danger of turks living in Germany from left-extremism, and some groups of rightists. But most leftists extremists.....



Like the article stated, Turkey has a Institution called "Diyanet" which controlls the religion. All Imams are teached by them. On every mosque you visit there is a emblem "T.C. Diyanet" (Turkish Republic Diyanet)...
This organization has last year promoted women as Imams which is a novum for Muslims.
The friday speeches for Imams are written from Diyanet, too.

In Turkey noone has the right to establish a mosque besides Diyanet-Organiszation. So all mosques are state-runned mosques.



Now it comes to Europe: As there are living Turks in Europe, the Turkish state has established Diyanet-Mosques in Europe, too for European Turks. The same here: Friday-speech are send via fax to these mosques in Europe and the Imams are sent for 4 years from Ankara to Europe. So the Imams are taught by the state, too and are Turkish state officials.


But The problem is, the turkish mosques in Germany are controlled by the turkish state. But there are mosques too, which are controlled from noone because Germany did not care because of religious freedom. So "Milli Görüs" (Organization which is forbidden in Turkey) has for example mosques in Germany where these people controll themselves ...

There are arab mosques, North african mosques, too.. all over europe and there is the bullshit going on, as noone is teaching them...
Look, all Imams come from abroad to Europe to those mosques.
Turkish Imams are state officials which are taught by the state.
But arab Imams or others come from Saudi-Arabia and soon and are not state officials or moderate view.


Turkish Government pressured Europeans for Years, that European governemnts teach there own Imams and controll them thereselves. Europe always denied because of freedeom of religion. But now they are wakeing up. Germany is going to teach their own Imams in University. So they can modify their own Imams in accordance to German society and laws and culture.

So when Germany teaches their own Imams, which are controlled by the state, Turkish Republic will not send anymore Turkish Imams to European countries. This is the best solution. So Europeans can close their boarders for Saudi-Arabian Imams and others which are not moderate and preach hate in European countries.


As I said, Turkish state Organisation "diyanet" is present in Germany. But besides "diyanet" there are about 4 islamic organizations, too which unite several mosques under their umbrella. And some of them are not that much moderate. Germany will promote 1 or 2 of these organizations with teaching Imams in University. When they promote all 5 organizations there will be chaos in the system.
But how will the other organizations react when only 1 organization is promoted to "state-status" and the others are de-facto non-sense??? This can be risky, but there leads no way besides doing so.
Europeans have to control Islam as Turkey is doing. Then there will be no problems with hate-preachers and other extremism... Then there is a non-aggressive, from current politics seperated Islam preached in the Mosques...
This is the only solution. Turkey knows too good why they are controlling Islam...

 

[ekrem]

So yes! Europe can learn much from Turkey handling Islam.

Even USA can learn from Turkey and every other muslim state in this world. The turkish model has proven itself compatible to the 21st century.


The main problem is that Islam has nothing like a Islamic Pope. (Caliphate)

The last Caliphate was Ottoman. Atatürk dissolved the Caliphate. He was a wise men. Imagine a full-hatred Caliphate in these times who has the authority to speak to over 1 billion sunnites muslims, telling them "Bad, evil West"...
Atatürk did good to dissolve this Caliphate. It is too risky and too powerfull especially when Caliphate is abused for political views and World-politics.

The Caliphate has the authentic "green flag" of the Prophet. From his times. Anyone who speaks with this flag has authority to speak to every Sunnite. This flag is now in Museum in Istanbul, open for tourists and anyone else.

I don't know if you can imagine this step... But it is like Italy dissolveing the Vatican and the Pope.

 

[Said1]

So yes! Europe can learn much from Turkey handling Islam.

Even USA can learn from Turkey and every other muslim state in this world. The turkish model has proven itself compatible to the 21st century.


The main problem is that Islam has nothing like a Islamic Pope. (Caliphate)

The last Caliphate was Ottoman. Atatürk dissolved the Caliphate. He was a wise men. Imagine a full-hatred Caliphate in these times who has the authority to speak to over 1 billion sunnites muslims, telling them "Bad, evil West"...
Atatürk did good to dissolve this Caliphate. It is too risky and too powerfull especially when Caliphate is abused for political views and World-politics.

The Caliphate has the authentic "green flag" of the Prophet. From his times. Anyone who speaks with this flag has authority to speak to every Sunnite. This flag is now in Museum in Istanbul, open for tourists and anyone else.

I don't know if you can imagine this step... But it is like Italy dissolveing the Vatican and the Pope.

Like I said, I think that's a little optimistic.