Debate Now Trump's Obstruction of Congress

[task0778]

Rules:

1. If you state a fact, provide a link to substantiate it. If you state an opinion and it's not yours, provide a link. If you do not provide a link then whatever you post is considered to be your opinion, which by the way is fine.

2. No one-line fly-bys. Rationales and reasoning for your opinions are required.

3. Disagreeing with someone's post is acceptable, even encouraged, but attacking someone's post is not. If you characterize someone's post as garbage, that's an attack. If you say 'I don't believe that' or 'I don't think that's right or true', that's disagreeing and you should state why.

Executive privilege has been invoked many times by past presidents when in conflict with Congress. Congress has the right to sue in court for the requested information or testimony, and if Trump refuses a court order then he has indeed obstructed Congress. But otherwise he can employ that option. The House should have gone through the courts to get the testimony and documents they wanted, taken the time to get it right. Or they could have tried to negotiate with Trump and worked out a deal. But they didn't, and that is why the charge is bogus IMHO.

It was said by some democrats that Trump's decision to invoke executive privilege with respect to the impeachment inquiry was tantamount to admitting guilt or that he had something to hide. This is of course nonsense, it has long been understood that executive privilege is part of the system of separation of powers. This Article simply misstates the law to insist that the President is duty-bound to comply with whatever the House requests. By attempting to impeach the president because he wields presidential power, House Democrats reveal that it is they themselves who are the ones abusing power.

The proper way for Congress to push back on a frustrating president is not to resort to the extreme remedy of impeachment but to simply defund his legislative priorities or perhaps force a government shutdown. Or go to court and get a court order in their favor. Which does take time, no question, but that is the correct way to do it.
https://nypost.com/2019/12/13/obstruction-of-congress-is-an-utterly-ridiculous-impeachment-charge/

And it's not like past presidents haven't invoked executive privilege, Obama did it quite often. So now all of a sudden it's an impeachable offense? Bullcrap.

Fast and Furious is certainly the most well-known example, but there are many other examples of Obama doing what Democrats now claim to be an impeachable offense. If Democrats like Nancy Pelosi were being honest that this isn’t about politics but the rule of law and holding presidents accountable and such, they should have impeached Obama… and it’s not like they didn’t have multiple opportunities either. Here are just five instances (of many more) where Obama obstructed justice and Democrats didn’t care enough about abuse of power to impeach him. So really, they should stop pretending they give a hoot about the rule of law or our democracy or the Constitution.
Five Times Democrats Didn't Care When Obama Committed Obstruction of Justice

 

[bluzman61]

Rules:

1. If you state a fact, provide a link to substantiate it. If you state an opinion and it's not yours, provide a link. If you do not provide a link then whatever you post is considered to be your opinion, which by the way is fine.

2. No one-line fly-bys. Rationales and reasoning for your opinions are required.

3. Disagreeing with someone's post is acceptable, even encouraged, but attacking someone's post is not. If you characterize someone's post as garbage, that's an attack. If you say 'I don't believe that' or 'I don't think that's right or true', that's disagreeing and you should state why.

Executive privilege has been invoked many times by past presidents when in conflict with Congress. Congress has the right to sue in court for the requested information or testimony, and if Trump refuses a court order then he has indeed obstructed Congress. But otherwise he can employ that option. The House should have gone through the courts to get the testimony and documents they wanted, taken the time to get it right. Or they could have tried to negotiate with Trump and worked out a deal. But they didn't, and that is why the charge is bogus IMHO.

It was said by some democrats that Trump's decision to invoke executive privilege with respect to the impeachment inquiry was tantamount to admitting guilt or that he had something to hide. This is of course nonsense, it has long been understood that executive privilege is part of the system of separation of powers. This Article simply misstates the law to insist that the President is duty-bound to comply with whatever the House requests. By attempting to impeach the president because he wields presidential power, House Democrats reveal that it is they themselves who are the ones abusing power.

The proper way for Congress to push back on a frustrating president is not to resort to the extreme remedy of impeachment but to simply defund his legislative priorities or perhaps force a government shutdown. Or go to court and get a court order in their favor. Which does take time, no question, but that is the correct way to do it.
https://nypost.com/2019/12/13/obstruction-of-congress-is-an-utterly-ridiculous-impeachment-charge/

And it's not like past presidents haven't invoked executive privilege, Obama did it quite often. So now all of a sudden it's an impeachable offense? Bullcrap.

Fast and Furious is certainly the most well-known example, but there are many other examples of Obama doing what Democrats now claim to be an impeachable offense. If Democrats like Nancy Pelosi were being honest that this isn’t about politics but the rule of law and holding presidents accountable and such, they should have impeached Obama… and it’s not like they didn’t have multiple opportunities either. Here are just five instances (of many more) where Obama obstructed justice and Democrats didn’t care enough about abuse of power to impeach him. So really, they should stop pretending they give a hoot about the rule of law or our democracy or the Constitution.
Five Times Democrats Didn't Care When Obama Committed Obstruction of Justice

Please present the links that PROVE President Trump is guilty of Obstruction of Justice. Thank you.

 

[task0778]

Rules:

1. If you state a fact, provide a link to substantiate it. If you state an opinion and it's not yours, provide a link. If you do not provide a link then whatever you post is considered to be your opinion, which by the way is fine.

2. No one-line fly-bys. Rationales and reasoning for your opinions are required.

3. Disagreeing with someone's post is acceptable, even encouraged, but attacking someone's post is not. If you characterize someone's post as garbage, that's an attack. If you say 'I don't believe that' or 'I don't think that's right or true', that's disagreeing and you should state why.

Executive privilege has been invoked many times by past presidents when in conflict with Congress. Congress has the right to sue in court for the requested information or testimony, and if Trump refuses a court order then he has indeed obstructed Congress. But otherwise he can employ that option. The House should have gone through the courts to get the testimony and documents they wanted, taken the time to get it right. Or they could have tried to negotiate with Trump and worked out a deal. But they didn't, and that is why the charge is bogus IMHO.

It was said by some democrats that Trump's decision to invoke executive privilege with respect to the impeachment inquiry was tantamount to admitting guilt or that he had something to hide. This is of course nonsense, it has long been understood that executive privilege is part of the system of separation of powers. This Article simply misstates the law to insist that the President is duty-bound to comply with whatever the House requests. By attempting to impeach the president because he wields presidential power, House Democrats reveal that it is they themselves who are the ones abusing power.

The proper way for Congress to push back on a frustrating president is not to resort to the extreme remedy of impeachment but to simply defund his legislative priorities or perhaps force a government shutdown. Or go to court and get a court order in their favor. Which does take time, no question, but that is the correct way to do it.
https://nypost.com/2019/12/13/obstruction-of-congress-is-an-utterly-ridiculous-impeachment-charge/

And it's not like past presidents haven't invoked executive privilege, Obama did it quite often. So now all of a sudden it's an impeachable offense? Bullcrap.

Fast and Furious is certainly the most well-known example, but there are many other examples of Obama doing what Democrats now claim to be an impeachable offense. If Democrats like Nancy Pelosi were being honest that this isn’t about politics but the rule of law and holding presidents accountable and such, they should have impeached Obama… and it’s not like they didn’t have multiple opportunities either. Here are just five instances (of many more) where Obama obstructed justice and Democrats didn’t care enough about abuse of power to impeach him. So really, they should stop pretending they give a hoot about the rule of law or our democracy or the Constitution.
Five Times Democrats Didn't Care When Obama Committed Obstruction of Justice

Please present the links that PROVE President Trump is guilty of Obstruction of Justice. Thank you.

Where did I say Trump was guilty of Obstruction? Actually I did say that charge was bogus IMHO.

 

[jwoodie]

The amazing thing about Libtards is their inability (or unwillingness) to distinguish fact from fancy. In their minds, what they want something to be is what it is (i.e., their "personal truth").

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

Democrats like Schiff made it clear they could not wait for a court order to force Trump to turn over documents and witnesses because they ( Schiff and company ) feared Trump might cheat again.

In my personal opinion the House Democrats jumped the gun on the Obstruction of Congress and should have exhausted the courts but they ( Democrats ) also see how the economy is going and know they ( Democrats ) could end up losing key red and purple district seats in the upcoming 2020 election.

Again in my opinion the Obstruction of Congress is weak but had anyone been listening to Schiff and Company they would have seen this coming.

House Democrats know this will fail in the Senate because the House Democrats did not exhaust the courts for a ruling, but let me be clear the impeachment and removal is not the true end goal either.

The end goal is to throw doubt on the 2020 election and if Democrats lose they will claim the vote was rigged and demand the nullification of the vote.

So the Obstruction of Congress is a slight of hand trick and the real end goal is to say Trump stole the 2020 election.

Everything I wrote is based on my opinion.

 

[task0778]

Democrats like Schiff made it clear they could not wait for a court order to force Trump to turn over documents and witnesses because they ( Schiff and company ) feared Trump might cheat again.

In my personal opinion the House Democrats jumped the gun on the Obstruction of Congress and should have exhausted the courts but they ( Democrats ) also see how the economy is going and know they ( Democrats ) could end up losing key red and purple district seats in the upcoming 2020 election.

Again in my opinion the Obstruction of Congress is weak but had anyone been listening to Schiff and Company they would have seen this coming.

House Democrats know this will fail in the Senate because the House Democrats did not exhaust the courts for a ruling, but let me be clear the impeachment and removal is not the true end goal either.

The end goal is to throw doubt on the 2020 election and if Democrats lose they will claim the vote was rigged and demand the nullification of the vote.

So the Obstruction of Congress is a slight of hand trick and the real end goal is to say Trump stole the 2020 election.

Everything I wrote is based on my opinion.

Claiming the election was rigged and nullifying the vote is gonna be a really hard sell. I think they've pinned all their hopes on getting some incriminating evidence on Trump if they can get the courts to force Trump to turn over whatever documents the Dems want and also get Mulvaney, Bolton, and others to testify. But if they come up empty then they've dug themselves quite a hole IMHO.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

Democrats like Schiff made it clear they could not wait for a court order to force Trump to turn over documents and witnesses because they ( Schiff and company ) feared Trump might cheat again.

In my personal opinion the House Democrats jumped the gun on the Obstruction of Congress and should have exhausted the courts but they ( Democrats ) also see how the economy is going and know they ( Democrats ) could end up losing key red and purple district seats in the upcoming 2020 election.

Again in my opinion the Obstruction of Congress is weak but had anyone been listening to Schiff and Company they would have seen this coming.

House Democrats know this will fail in the Senate because the House Democrats did not exhaust the courts for a ruling, but let me be clear the impeachment and removal is not the true end goal either.

The end goal is to throw doubt on the 2020 election and if Democrats lose they will claim the vote was rigged and demand the nullification of the vote.

So the Obstruction of Congress is a slight of hand trick and the real end goal is to say Trump stole the 2020 election.

Everything I wrote is based on my opinion.

Claiming the election was rigged and nullifying the vote is gonna be a really hard sell. I think they've pinned all their hopes on getting some incriminating evidence on Trump if they can get the courts to force Trump to turn over whatever documents the Dems want and also get Mulvaney, Bolton, and others to testify. But if they come up empty then they've dug themselves quite a hole IMHO.

It was Schiff that let it out that he believe Trump will cheat in 2020 and that is why they could not wait for the courts, so I am going to stick with my theory until proven wrong that Democrats are going for the spin the election was rigged and this Obstruction of Congress is just a smoke screen.

Bolton is the only one beside maybe Rudy who can either sink or save Trump but as it stands now the Obstruction of Congress is just weak.

 

[task0778]

Democrats like Schiff made it clear they could not wait for a court order to force Trump to turn over documents and witnesses because they ( Schiff and company ) feared Trump might cheat again.

In my personal opinion the House Democrats jumped the gun on the Obstruction of Congress and should have exhausted the courts but they ( Democrats ) also see how the economy is going and know they ( Democrats ) could end up losing key red and purple district seats in the upcoming 2020 election.

Again in my opinion the Obstruction of Congress is weak but had anyone been listening to Schiff and Company they would have seen this coming.

House Democrats know this will fail in the Senate because the House Democrats did not exhaust the courts for a ruling, but let me be clear the impeachment and removal is not the true end goal either.

The end goal is to throw doubt on the 2020 election and if Democrats lose they will claim the vote was rigged and demand the nullification of the vote.

So the Obstruction of Congress is a slight of hand trick and the real end goal is to say Trump stole the 2020 election.

Everything I wrote is based on my opinion.

Claiming the election was rigged and nullifying the vote is gonna be a really hard sell. I think they've pinned all their hopes on getting some incriminating evidence on Trump if they can get the courts to force Trump to turn over whatever documents the Dems want and also get Mulvaney, Bolton, and others to testify. But if they come up empty then they've dug themselves quite a hole IMHO.

It was Schiff that let it out that he believe Trump will cheat in 2020 and that is why they could not wait for the courts, so I am going to stick with my theory until proven wrong that Democrats are going for the spin the election was rigged and this Obstruction of Congress is just a smoke screen.

Bolton is the only one beside maybe Rudy who can either sink or save Trump but as it stands now the Obstruction of Congress is just weak.

Mulvaney and McGahn could give Trump some trouble too. But not on the Obstruction charge though, that one is pure BS. It's just my opinion, but Pelosi has to realize that if the House Dems go down this road then there's a chance they'll lose their House majority. But I guess desperate times call for desperate measures, another 4 years of Trump and a GOP Senate means the federal judiciary will have an awful lot of Trump appointees. And that ain't good for the Dems.