Trumps Axios Interview

basquebromance

Diamond Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2015
Messages
57,890
Reaction score
7,430
Points
1,870
Location
LaPorte, Indiana
here's what we're gonna do to save Trump's campaign, my friends: we're gonna invent a time machine so that Trump can build the wall on January 21, 2017, and a 50 state landslide is secured!
 
OP
Slade3200

Slade3200

Platinum Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2016
Messages
33,816
Reaction score
3,962
Points
1,140
Can any Trump supporter honestly say they are proud of how Trump answered questions in this interview? He either dodged, spun, or outright lied in almost every statement.

If Trump is doing so well then why can’t he Just honestly address these topics?!

please don’t give your opinion if you haven’t watched the interview. I’m not interested in ignorant talking points.

Trump whooped his ass, big league. The desperate leftist kept making unsupported assertions and trying to spin topics and Trump stopped him in his tracks every time.
Do you just say things that you want to be true? Is that the game? We can all watch the video, no need to spin, it’s pretty clear as day what’s going on.
Unlike low IQ TDS afflicted morons such as yourself, I am capable of independent thought.

You can watch the video a million times and all you will think about it is what the fakestream media has brainwashed you into thinking of it.
You obviously are not capable of independent thought as you are not seeing what’s right in front of you
I see Swan repeatedly lie and I see Trump repeatedly correct him with verifiable words of truth. Even Swan has since acquiesced that he was wrong and Trump was correct, regarding mail-in ballots.

Of course you didn't know that because you only see what you've been brainwashed into seeing by the fakestream news. That's why you have such a serious case of TDS in the first place.

Personally, I think Trump should have been much tougher on Swan, but obviously he really likes Swan.
Well im glad you’re here to enlighten me then. Can you list the lies that Swan told so we can discuss?
 
OP
Slade3200

Slade3200

Platinum Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2016
Messages
33,816
Reaction score
3,962
Points
1,140
Trump has the left so scared that they are willing to vote for a feeble minded Alzheimer's patient who literally does not know where he is at any given moment. A man so dull he forgets what he said in the middle of a sentence. Joe Biden needs to be in a memory ward before he wanders off a bridge!

But, but, but. Orange man bad.......

:rofl:
.
Its ironic that you point to the dems as being scared and then proceed to use the mindless attack over Bidens mental health. A petty and worthless tactic that is used every election that involves a senior citizen. It shows your own fear and inability to critic Biden on anything of substance. Remember when Clinton was on her death bed?? What happened there? I'll tell you, y'all were and still are full of shit
Irony? Clinton lost. Biden will lose too. Slow Joe is mentally incapacitated and unfit for office. You know it. I know it. Everyone knows it. EXCEPT JOE BIDEN. That is irony.

As for criticizing Biden on substance-it's is very difficult, becaue he has no substance! He's says whatever he believes "polls" best at the moment. He has situation values- he changes he "deeply held" beliefs depending on the audience. He's as malleable as a piece of warm chewing gum.
Jesus, you just go right along with the current talking points don't ya? What a joke.

Biden has release policy plan after policy plan, he talks about how he will rebuild the economy and what he wants to do with his presidency. I bet you don't know a thing about that stuff because your too wrapped up into the Biden has dementia BS. Get a life dude, nobody is going to take that stuff seriously. The Trump campaign just suspending spending on all those ads because the message was failing to land. You'll be onto new talking points in a weak or so. I'm sure Ukraine and Hunter talking points are coming soon. Either way... Don't be a puppet, it's pathetic.
Dementia Joe spent 50 years in the top echelons of government, and did nothing. But now he has a plan?

MmmmHmmmm.

:rofl:
I guess so. Should be good enough to get Trump out of there
 

basquebromance

Diamond Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2015
Messages
57,890
Reaction score
7,430
Points
1,870
Location
LaPorte, Indiana
Children have died from this virus. Do they usually? No. Do they die the way adults do? No, but that’s not the point. They are not immune. They get sick and infected. They generally have lighter or no symptoms, but after age 10, the best research we have at this point tells us they are just as likely to spread coronavirus as anyone else. And he knows it. he was told that. It is the best reckoning by his own task force
 
OP
Slade3200

Slade3200

Platinum Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2016
Messages
33,816
Reaction score
3,962
Points
1,140
Children have died from this virus. Do they usually? No. Do they die the way adults do? No, but that’s not the point. They are not immune. They get sick and infected. They generally have lighter or no symptoms, but after age 10, the best research we have at this point tells us they are just as likely to spread coronavirus as anyone else. And he knows it. he was told that. It is the best reckoning by his own task force
The fact that kids carry and spread it needs to be a knowledge and Trump plays dumb. Kids may not have a high rate of death or bad symptoms but their parents grandparents and teachers all get exposed to the same germs and that seems to be ignored
 

Jitss617

Diamond Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2019
Messages
39,091
Reaction score
9,267
Points
1,340
When you start a interview with “ remember when you said” ... it’s a set up for a gotcha question.. Americans want to know about illegals, and fixing black neighborhoods.. not what he said years ago
 

kyzr

Platinum Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2009
Messages
15,581
Reaction score
6,205
Points
350
Location
The AL part of PA
Can any Trump supporter honestly say they are proud of how Trump answered questions in this interview? He either dodged, spun, or outright lied in almost every statement.

If Trump is doing so well then why can’t he Just honestly address these topics?!

please don’t give your opinion if you haven’t watched the interview. I’m not interested in ignorant talking points.

You're not going to get someone who has sold their soul to this guy to back out now.

He has no shame, they have no shame.
Sad but true... I am so curious about how his supporters feel when they watch an interview like this where he is either clearly lying for political purposes or insanely ignorant to the realities to the situation. I guess don’t expect them to honestly express their feelings on this board but bit maybe there is an honest soul out there willing to share their perspective.

I have a couple friends who were Trump
Supporters ready to vote for him this November that are now disgusted by him by the way he has handled this health crisis.
Yet, i bet they still vote for him. So few will admit they made such a yuge mistake!
Damn right we're voting for Trump again. I saw the entire interview. The interviewer just couldn't get past the democrat talking points. I can give you one example:
The US has so many infected because we test much more than other countries. That is a fact, yet the democrats don't grasp it. Here is the explanation:
1. Other countries do not test until the person enters the hospital with symptoms.
Take India for example, 20m tests and 15,000 tests/1m people, 1.9m cases found.
The US did 61m tests, and 186,000 tests/1m people, 4.9m cases found.
So it is not surprising that in the US we found many more cases (3x) by testing 10x more people per million.
In India there are many more "asymptomatic" or "mildly symptomatic" cases undetected, that would show positive in the US.

2. Trump's handling of the pandemic is totally dependent on citizens mitigating risk. If people party and don't social distance, and have covid parties, then the infection spreads. If people act responsibly, and wear masks, the pandemic can be reduced, see the attached chart. Trump can only lead the horses to water, he can't make them drink.
View attachment 371221
You actually make two good points, I'm glad you chimed in. More testing is going to Statistically show more cases that is true. It it also gives opportunity to slow the spread as identifying cases leads to quarantine, early treatment and contact tracing which ultimately leads to less cases over time. The interviewer, who is very middle of the road and spends a lot of time on Fox, was asking about the death rate in relation to population with really is a more relevant stat. Trump, first failed to explain how we are "over testing" by referencing some unnamed books and manuals, and then he said the only death stats that we can look at are deaths per cases... This makes no sense. Be honest... It really makes no sense.

2. I totally agree about mitigating risk and this is where I think Trump has made his biggest misstep of leadership. He isn't leading horses to water, he is leading them to slaughter. He has been downplaying this virus from the beginning. Instead of being honest about the seriousness of the situation he has tried to dismiss it and score political points. He hasn't promoted masks or social distancing. He has held the largest group event since the shutdown with the Tulsa rally and then Tulsa spiked in cases a few weeks later. Thats crazy. It took him 3 months to finally say people should wear a mask. He had a few measured and read statements about and then when right back to his "Open it all up" attitude. That is just crazy and irresponsible. Do you not see it? Did you not see how he spun and lied through out that entire interview?
1. I watch FXN all day and don't recall ever seeing the Brit interviewer. He's from Axios. The death rate needs to be adjusted over time for many factors. First Cuomo sent covid patients to nursing homes and killed off about 35,000. So we need to adjust for that. Then we are getting much better treatments now, convalescent plasma, Remdesavire, etc. So I agree with Trump that looking at the death reduction over time is critical going forward. The doctors are getting much better at treatments. So looking at old death rates is meaningless. I also prefer deaths/cases/month to see the true trend. Be honest, that makes sense for trending curves.

2. We disagree. Trump has multiple responsibilities, he needs to address COVID-19 and keep the US economy up and running. I agree with Trump. He is doing a much better job with the pandemic and the economy than Biden could do, and you know it. Biden can't find his ass with both hands.
you actually did respond to my reply and I was the on that missed it. My bad.

1. Dana Parino is a big fan of swan so he appears on her show often and he is a regular on Special report with Bret Bair.
You didn’t address my point about death rate per population. That is really the most relevant stat to see how the virus has effected a country. The stat the Trump tours is deaths per cases which is dependent on the number of tests/cases identified. Since we test more than most countries then of course that number is going to be low. You see that right?

2. how can you think Trump is guiding the public in a responsible way? You admit that the virus is spread by people gathering and not social distancing. We see example after example of Trump promoting this type of behavior and belittling the recommended guidelines of cautionary actions that his own task force is coming out with.
1. Apology accepted, thanks. I miss stuff on occasion too. I like that you debate ideas and facts instead of slinging crap in a TDS food fight. This response is copied from my post #15. So the answer is, it depends if you want better numbers or worse numbers. I made a good living proving answers mathematically that the bosses want.
"The death rate needs to be adjusted over time for many factors. First Cuomo sent covid patients to nursing homes and killed off about 35,000. So we need to adjust for that. Then we are getting much better treatments now, convalescent plasma, Remdesavire, etc. So I agree with Trump that looking at the death reduction over time is critical going forward. The doctors are getting much better at treatments. So looking at old death rates is meaningless. I also prefer deaths/cases/month to see the true trend. Be honest, that makes sense for trending curves."
So look at each case:
a. Deaths per population:
The downside of this is that it doesn't capture trends, it is a much slower moving number. For example, when NY & NJ killed off their nursing home population, those "preventable" deaths stay in the number of "dead/population". Making the ratio look worse than it is. Not a good tool for tracking progress vs the virus.

b. Deaths per cases:
Its important to plot deaths/cases/month to show trends. Are we gaining or is the virus gaining? Look at the high deaths in NY & NJ at the start. Those deaths are "outliers" today. The stat that is most important is "are we winning or is the virus winning?"
I agree that using "deaths/cases/month" is a much more current statistic for how the nation is doing vs the pandemic. As treatments improve, death rates drop. Convalescent plasma and Remdesivir are game changers, as even more effective therapies are approved, the deaths/case will continue to drop. Agree that more testing means more cases and a lower ratio. But the "deaths/cases" ratio on a "per month" basis is the most accurate way to capture how we are doing vs the virus over time.

2. Trump always advises people to mitigate. He also needs the economy to reopen. Its a tough job when people keep partying. When the population "complies" we will beat COVID-19. Until then its not Trump's fault. It's China's fault.
I'm an engineer so I lean into the analytical and not the puff puff opinion stuff. So I always appreciate a substantive debate.

1. I understand what you are saying about the death/case stats. They are important when tracking trends within a country and working to mitigate the spread. The problem is, Trump is using those stats to brag about how great we are compared to other countries. Once you go there you aren't comparing like items. The only way to properly compare the effects of the virus in our country vs other countries is to look at deaths vs population and in that stat we are failing. The NY NJ nursing home accusation is a much larger debate which I would challenge your premise but lets not go there right now.

2. I get that Trump wants the economy to open, but when can you point to him encouraging people to take this seriously and commit to safe practices. Go back as far as you want, to the beginning of the shut down... People needed and still need to take this thing seriously and Trump has been downplaying it the whole time and literally encouraging the types of behavior that lead to more spread. You said "leading a horse to water" What exactly has Trump done to lead the horses to water and encourage the type of behavior that slows the spread? Can you point to some examples?
I'm also a PE. So we both know our numbers.

1. I disagree that the "only way to properly compare the effects of the virus" vs other countries is deaths/pop. As you said initially, the deaths/case stat tracks how the US is doing over time as the medications improve. My argument against comparing countries is that we have no way of knowing if their numbers are accurate. So comparing countries is still apples to oranges, no matter what "squishy" numbers you compare.

2. I can recall Pence, Birx, and Fauci recommending washing hands, distancing, masks. Then I recall "covid parties", bars open, crowded beaches, and BLM protests, etc. Until the population complies with guidance the virus will spread.


1. I've heard that response, that you can't trust the other countries numbers. If thats what you are going with then there is nothing more to discuss. I can't prove the numbers are accurate and you can't prove they are false so the debate in then over. But if thats the case then we should both be in agreement that the comparisons that Trump is touting when he said we are doing better than the world with death rate is BS, right?

2. I recall Pence, Fauci, and Birx making those recommendations too. And then Trump tweeting and taking actions that promoted the opposite. Can you find any examples of TRUMP leading the horses to water? Because I have dozens showing him doing the opposite.
1. Absolutely! Total BS. Trump brags on the US and his record, and the Trump haters try to use false comparisons to make him look bad. Its all partisan bullshit using squishy numbers. The only true numbers as far as I can tell are deaths/case/month here in the US to see if the medical research is gaining on covid. If we get a "magic bullet" therapy we win, if we don't we live with covid. Even vaccines are not 100% effective, like the flu vaccine, we get 40,000 flu deaths a year, and don't bat an eye.

2. Trump has two problems, keeping covid patients alive, and keeping the US economy alive. The problems are interrelated. Trump is a businessman not a medical professional, so he tends to promote saving the economy and hopes that the task force can work the pandemic medically. The doctors only care about patients and not the economy, they apparently think money grows on trees. The US can't keep printing money or we lose our economy. So I agree with you that Trump's focus has been too much on the economy and not enough on mitigation, but we can't shutdown again, the schools need to open, and we need to either defeat covid or learn to live with it.
Trump should start and end every news conference with a reminder about mitigation measures, and to work safely.
I think we've reached agreement on point #1. Way to go!

As for point #2... We are close, except for I think my point still stands about Trumps irresponsible handling and messaging of this pandemic. Yes he is a business man and not a medical professional, he assigned a task force to address COVID, yet he belittles and contradicts the task force professionals on a regular basis. The fastest way to reopen the economy, which we agree is Trumps goal, is to get the virus under control. If going back to March Trump would have promoted mask wearing and social distancing and treated this virus as the serious threat that it is I truly believe we would be in a much better spot right now. All Trump did was play politics though. Pretend like it was no big deal, try to brag and claim wins about everything, deflect responsibly to the states, and push to reopen, which many governors listened too and now we are seeing their states as the hotbeds for resurgence. There is a direct correlation. Trump did and is still doing the exact opposite of leading horses to water when it comes to addressing the pandemic. I know you agree since you haven't provided any examples of Trump promoting mitigating behavior. The few statements he has read about masks and distancing he contradicts usually in the next breath. We all know where he stands and in my opinion it is going to be his undoing.
Its a fine line between "irresponsible messaging" and "skewed or incomplete messaging" based on conflicting and incorrect information. Trump apparently wanted to avoid a panic and everyone heading for the basement in terror. The initial info out of China and the WHO was conflicting and mostly wrong. "There was no human to human transmission"?? WTF? The CDC couldn't do adequate testing early on, etc. Should Trump shutdown air travel from China? Yes, he shut it down, a great decision. The democrats went nuts calling him xenophobic and racist. Then Nancy promotes going out to Chinatown?!
Hindsight being 20/20, I agree Trump did an okay job, probably way better than any PC democrat could have done handling the pandemic. Trump kept the "curve" flatter and within the medical system capacity by stopping flights from China so early. Could Trump have been more serious promoting masks, distancing, and avoiding crowds? Yes, sure, early on. But then there was a battle to reopen the economy or not. Many governors were keeping their states locked-down, and Trump wanted to avoid too many bankruptcies. He did not want to give the governors an excuse to stay shutdown. Right now about 50% of US restaurants are closed permanently. So Trump probably wanted to promote "normalcy" to save jobs and businesses, instead of the "new normal", that being normal but with masks and distancing.
I know this pandemic is China's fault, no one else's.
You sound like an intelligent person so I'm confused on how you don't see the correlation between Trumps messaging and the spread of the virus. It is very simple in my mind. There was a period of a few months April and May when we needed to take this shut down seriously. Wear masks and social distance. Instead of encouraging that kind of behavior he played tough guy talking about going to Easter mass and refusing to wear a mask or promote mask wearing. He belittled the seriousness of the virus, made fun of people who were taking it seriously, and threw seeds of doubt in everything and everyone that urged caution. That was the opportunity to get this thing under control. Instead he kept pushing for reopening and he got what he wanted in some states. Georgia was the first to move and Florida next... Look what happened! Is it really a mystery why the cases spiked in those states. Now 1000s a day are dying and Florida is the worlds hotbed. All helped by political games that Trump was playing. You have to see that. Safety and reopening did not need to fight each other, we could have worked together on this thing but Trump is not a person capable of that kind of unification which is why in my opinion he belongs no where near the White House.
Trump haters have one thing in common, TDS. Its not about truth or facts, its about blaming Trump for everything wrong, his fault or not. We shutdown the entire country Birx and Fauci were on TV always telling folks how to mitigate the virus. Trump and Pence were very busy saving NY & NJ from disaster, even the democrat governors said that the Trump team did great. Blaming Trump for the bad behaviors of people is flat wrong. Look at the crowded beaches, the bars, the protests, "covid parties", sending the infected back to nursing homes, and all the other bad behaviors. They are not Trump's fault. If anyone gets covid after all the warnings and guidance it's probably their own damn fault, not Trumps. Covid is not going away, even with a vaccine. Look at the flu, 40,000 die each year even with vaccines, and no one bats an eye. So stop the partisan accusations that you would never be able to prove in court. If anyone needs to be blamed for the pandemic, its China.
Trumps is also doing his best to blame it on China every time he talks about it. You like him are doing pretty good at deflecting as much blame as you can. It’s curious how easy it is for you blame everybody including the kitchen sink yet Trump comes out as the great leader who did everything he could. I’ve provided example after example of how he acted irresponsibly and you just ignore And deflect. I can tell you’re a smart guy so I know you get it. I can only assume that your ego just won’t let you admit it. So at this point I’ll just drop it... I don’t see this conversation going anywhere Especially after you turned down the TDS road.

nice try, we got close
One more cycle please...then we can agree to disagree....
1. Whose fault is the pandemic, Trump's or China's?
2. Deflecting blame is being honest if no blame is due. Trump is always being attacked for something by the MSM.
3. There are many people involved in the pandemic outcome, Trump, Congress, governors, employers, and each individual.
4. Does Cuomo get any "blame" for sending covid patients back to nursing homes?
5. Who gets the "blame" for meat packing plant outbreaks?
6. Who gets the blame for "covid parties", crowded beaches, crowded bars, and crowded protests?
7. If focusing on the economic recovery more than the virus is "acting irresponsibly" we disagree. Both need attention. Yet you always ignore the economic recovery. Before the pandemic hit the US was doing as well as I can ever remember, it was "prosperity".
8. Its not "ego" as much as "fairness". As much as Trump has been unfairly attacked maybe we do tend to "circle the wagons"
9. If you are a democrat you want Biden to win, so you throw rocks at Trump, I get that, its an election year, fine. But what "cankles" me is the way Trump hatred spewed from the MSM and democrats from his 1st day in office. We never treated any democrat president like that, ever.
10. Getting it all out on the table....
Trump's 1st term was a miracle in itself, the biggest upset in US election history. Hillary and the DNC actually colluded with and paid Russians for "dirt" on Trump, the "Steele Dossier". Obama used the power of the DOJ, FBI, CIA and other Federal agencies to illegally spy on and setup Trump for failure. Operations Crossfire Hurricane and Razor, the Mueller Investigation, Russian Collusion Hoax, the MSM's constant 95% negative coverage and "fake news", Never-Trump Republicans, the Lincoln Project, globalists of every stripe, the entrenched Deep State who all oppose Trump's policies, the planted leakers and whistle-blowers, and the RINOs who'd rather shill for K-Street than work for main street. Then add to all of that the outright hatred shown by the House democrats toward Trump, to the point of "non-crime" Impeachment Articles.
Now democrats are celebrating Deutsche Bank's release of Trump's financial records to NY prosecutors in hopes of nailing Trump with a crime, well good luck with that.
11. We'll see who wins in November, good luck with Joe Biden, hope he shows up for the debates.

p.s. enjoyed the discussion, this is what all forum discussions should be like. I'm sure we'll have more.
Jesus... you had to make 11 points?? Ok fine, here we go.

1. both Trump and China were wildly irresponsible and own fault for needless spread

2. Yes Trumpnis always blames by the MSM. Sometimes it is overblown and most of the time it is valid criticism. The point I’ve brought up are very valid critism.

3. True many people are involved. Trump is president he is going to get the largest spotlight

4. Cuomo handled the pandemic in a very open, honest, and scientific way. Hospitals were over crowding and he used needing homes that had the medical infrastructure to care for patients. The attacks on him are based on partisan spin and not reality. that said... I’m sure there are several things that he could have done better.

5 and 6. As you said blame is shared between leadership, business owners and individuals. Gotta look at case by case. It’s a virus so spread is inevitable so it every case can be link to a criminal act. I've never implied such a thing

7. I don’t see Trump focusing on economic recovery I see him as focusing on campaign 2020. As I’ve said before the best thing for the economy would have been to take the shelter seriously and get the virus under Control as quickly as possible so we could safely open up again. Trump did not do that.

8. I don’t blame you for sticking up for Trump. I welcome the debate. But when you shovel blame at everybody else and can’t acknowledge very valid areas of concern and documented lies and missteps then you become disingenuous.

9. I can only speak for myself but on Election Day I posted on this board to Dems encouraging them to give Trump a chance to lead and set an example of how to be a good minority party. They have failed miserable at that. Yes Trump has been attacked like no other. But that’s not because he is Republican it is because of who he is. Highly combative, blatantly dishonest, and Extremely offensive. It is why I don’t find him suitable for the office he holds. No president should be as hated or controversial as he is.

10. let’s not go down this rabbit hole right now

11. Biden is def not the most exciting candidate . He is old boring and past his prime. But he is leaps and bounds better than captain drama and will be a welcomed change.

Enjoyed the debate as well. Thanks for actually engaging and addressing the topic instead of devolving into the trolling insults. You made some good points that gave me better perspective which is what I look for on this site.

Look forward to the next one.
I wasn't going to reply, but then started thinking....
1. The correct answer is that China is solely responsible for the COVID-19 pandemic, period. Whether the virus was weaponized, or deliberately released is TBD.
2. Yes Trump deserves criticism from time to time, but the MSM coverage is 95% negative as compared to 75% positive for Obama. FXN was the most fair at about 50% positive and negative, according to a Harvard study. Negative publicity and fake news really irks Trump.
3. Not blaming Cuomo for deaths, but just pointing out that governors have many hidden responsibilities, like stockpiling ventilators and PPE. Many hospital workers died helping others while wearing homemade PPE. Another issue is that most factories were moved to China over the last 30-years, so its tough to make things in a hurry, like PPE or ventilators. Who moved all those factories to China?
4. The US did take the shutdown seriously, then the question became, reopen or the $25T economy crashes. There is no getting the virus under control when people are non-complaint. The virus will always be here, just like the flu, so there is no "safely". Your Monday morning quarterbacking is just partisan sniping without proof.
5. Biden is too old, too boring, and too connected. His getting Hunter an $83,000 a month job at Burisma and a cool $1,500,000,000 to invest from China should sound alarms. If Barr and Durham don't start issuing indictments soon the crooks might get away.
Children have died from this virus. Do they usually? No. Do they die the way adults do? No, but that’s not the point. They are not immune. They get sick and infected. They generally have lighter or no symptoms, but after age 10, the best research we have at this point tells us they are just as likely to spread coronavirus as anyone else. And he knows it. he was told that. It is the best reckoning by his own task force
The fact that kids carry and spread it needs to be a knowledge and Trump plays dumb. Kids may not have a high rate of death or bad symptoms but their parents grandparents and teachers all get exposed to the same germs and that seems to be ignored
Are you saying that we should all hide in our basements like Joe Biden? Until when? The virus is not going away.
1. Do you believe that schools should re-open, with mitigation measures, Y/N?
2. If not now, when should the schools reopen, assuming that the vaccines are 6-months out, and will only be 50% effective?
3. What should parents do if they both need to go to work now?
 
OP
Slade3200

Slade3200

Platinum Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2016
Messages
33,816
Reaction score
3,962
Points
1,140
Can any Trump supporter honestly say they are proud of how Trump answered questions in this interview? He either dodged, spun, or outright lied in almost every statement.

If Trump is doing so well then why can’t he Just honestly address these topics?!

please don’t give your opinion if you haven’t watched the interview. I’m not interested in ignorant talking points.

You're not going to get someone who has sold their soul to this guy to back out now.

He has no shame, they have no shame.
Sad but true... I am so curious about how his supporters feel when they watch an interview like this where he is either clearly lying for political purposes or insanely ignorant to the realities to the situation. I guess don’t expect them to honestly express their feelings on this board but bit maybe there is an honest soul out there willing to share their perspective.

I have a couple friends who were Trump
Supporters ready to vote for him this November that are now disgusted by him by the way he has handled this health crisis.
Yet, i bet they still vote for him. So few will admit they made such a yuge mistake!
Damn right we're voting for Trump again. I saw the entire interview. The interviewer just couldn't get past the democrat talking points. I can give you one example:
The US has so many infected because we test much more than other countries. That is a fact, yet the democrats don't grasp it. Here is the explanation:
1. Other countries do not test until the person enters the hospital with symptoms.
Take India for example, 20m tests and 15,000 tests/1m people, 1.9m cases found.
The US did 61m tests, and 186,000 tests/1m people, 4.9m cases found.
So it is not surprising that in the US we found many more cases (3x) by testing 10x more people per million.
In India there are many more "asymptomatic" or "mildly symptomatic" cases undetected, that would show positive in the US.

2. Trump's handling of the pandemic is totally dependent on citizens mitigating risk. If people party and don't social distance, and have covid parties, then the infection spreads. If people act responsibly, and wear masks, the pandemic can be reduced, see the attached chart. Trump can only lead the horses to water, he can't make them drink.
View attachment 371221
You actually make two good points, I'm glad you chimed in. More testing is going to Statistically show more cases that is true. It it also gives opportunity to slow the spread as identifying cases leads to quarantine, early treatment and contact tracing which ultimately leads to less cases over time. The interviewer, who is very middle of the road and spends a lot of time on Fox, was asking about the death rate in relation to population with really is a more relevant stat. Trump, first failed to explain how we are "over testing" by referencing some unnamed books and manuals, and then he said the only death stats that we can look at are deaths per cases... This makes no sense. Be honest... It really makes no sense.

2. I totally agree about mitigating risk and this is where I think Trump has made his biggest misstep of leadership. He isn't leading horses to water, he is leading them to slaughter. He has been downplaying this virus from the beginning. Instead of being honest about the seriousness of the situation he has tried to dismiss it and score political points. He hasn't promoted masks or social distancing. He has held the largest group event since the shutdown with the Tulsa rally and then Tulsa spiked in cases a few weeks later. Thats crazy. It took him 3 months to finally say people should wear a mask. He had a few measured and read statements about and then when right back to his "Open it all up" attitude. That is just crazy and irresponsible. Do you not see it? Did you not see how he spun and lied through out that entire interview?
1. I watch FXN all day and don't recall ever seeing the Brit interviewer. He's from Axios. The death rate needs to be adjusted over time for many factors. First Cuomo sent covid patients to nursing homes and killed off about 35,000. So we need to adjust for that. Then we are getting much better treatments now, convalescent plasma, Remdesavire, etc. So I agree with Trump that looking at the death reduction over time is critical going forward. The doctors are getting much better at treatments. So looking at old death rates is meaningless. I also prefer deaths/cases/month to see the true trend. Be honest, that makes sense for trending curves.

2. We disagree. Trump has multiple responsibilities, he needs to address COVID-19 and keep the US economy up and running. I agree with Trump. He is doing a much better job with the pandemic and the economy than Biden could do, and you know it. Biden can't find his ass with both hands.
you actually did respond to my reply and I was the on that missed it. My bad.

1. Dana Parino is a big fan of swan so he appears on her show often and he is a regular on Special report with Bret Bair.
You didn’t address my point about death rate per population. That is really the most relevant stat to see how the virus has effected a country. The stat the Trump tours is deaths per cases which is dependent on the number of tests/cases identified. Since we test more than most countries then of course that number is going to be low. You see that right?

2. how can you think Trump is guiding the public in a responsible way? You admit that the virus is spread by people gathering and not social distancing. We see example after example of Trump promoting this type of behavior and belittling the recommended guidelines of cautionary actions that his own task force is coming out with.
1. Apology accepted, thanks. I miss stuff on occasion too. I like that you debate ideas and facts instead of slinging crap in a TDS food fight. This response is copied from my post #15. So the answer is, it depends if you want better numbers or worse numbers. I made a good living proving answers mathematically that the bosses want.
"The death rate needs to be adjusted over time for many factors. First Cuomo sent covid patients to nursing homes and killed off about 35,000. So we need to adjust for that. Then we are getting much better treatments now, convalescent plasma, Remdesavire, etc. So I agree with Trump that looking at the death reduction over time is critical going forward. The doctors are getting much better at treatments. So looking at old death rates is meaningless. I also prefer deaths/cases/month to see the true trend. Be honest, that makes sense for trending curves."
So look at each case:
a. Deaths per population:
The downside of this is that it doesn't capture trends, it is a much slower moving number. For example, when NY & NJ killed off their nursing home population, those "preventable" deaths stay in the number of "dead/population". Making the ratio look worse than it is. Not a good tool for tracking progress vs the virus.

b. Deaths per cases:
Its important to plot deaths/cases/month to show trends. Are we gaining or is the virus gaining? Look at the high deaths in NY & NJ at the start. Those deaths are "outliers" today. The stat that is most important is "are we winning or is the virus winning?"
I agree that using "deaths/cases/month" is a much more current statistic for how the nation is doing vs the pandemic. As treatments improve, death rates drop. Convalescent plasma and Remdesivir are game changers, as even more effective therapies are approved, the deaths/case will continue to drop. Agree that more testing means more cases and a lower ratio. But the "deaths/cases" ratio on a "per month" basis is the most accurate way to capture how we are doing vs the virus over time.

2. Trump always advises people to mitigate. He also needs the economy to reopen. Its a tough job when people keep partying. When the population "complies" we will beat COVID-19. Until then its not Trump's fault. It's China's fault.
I'm an engineer so I lean into the analytical and not the puff puff opinion stuff. So I always appreciate a substantive debate.

1. I understand what you are saying about the death/case stats. They are important when tracking trends within a country and working to mitigate the spread. The problem is, Trump is using those stats to brag about how great we are compared to other countries. Once you go there you aren't comparing like items. The only way to properly compare the effects of the virus in our country vs other countries is to look at deaths vs population and in that stat we are failing. The NY NJ nursing home accusation is a much larger debate which I would challenge your premise but lets not go there right now.

2. I get that Trump wants the economy to open, but when can you point to him encouraging people to take this seriously and commit to safe practices. Go back as far as you want, to the beginning of the shut down... People needed and still need to take this thing seriously and Trump has been downplaying it the whole time and literally encouraging the types of behavior that lead to more spread. You said "leading a horse to water" What exactly has Trump done to lead the horses to water and encourage the type of behavior that slows the spread? Can you point to some examples?
I'm also a PE. So we both know our numbers.

1. I disagree that the "only way to properly compare the effects of the virus" vs other countries is deaths/pop. As you said initially, the deaths/case stat tracks how the US is doing over time as the medications improve. My argument against comparing countries is that we have no way of knowing if their numbers are accurate. So comparing countries is still apples to oranges, no matter what "squishy" numbers you compare.

2. I can recall Pence, Birx, and Fauci recommending washing hands, distancing, masks. Then I recall "covid parties", bars open, crowded beaches, and BLM protests, etc. Until the population complies with guidance the virus will spread.


1. I've heard that response, that you can't trust the other countries numbers. If thats what you are going with then there is nothing more to discuss. I can't prove the numbers are accurate and you can't prove they are false so the debate in then over. But if thats the case then we should both be in agreement that the comparisons that Trump is touting when he said we are doing better than the world with death rate is BS, right?

2. I recall Pence, Fauci, and Birx making those recommendations too. And then Trump tweeting and taking actions that promoted the opposite. Can you find any examples of TRUMP leading the horses to water? Because I have dozens showing him doing the opposite.
1. Absolutely! Total BS. Trump brags on the US and his record, and the Trump haters try to use false comparisons to make him look bad. Its all partisan bullshit using squishy numbers. The only true numbers as far as I can tell are deaths/case/month here in the US to see if the medical research is gaining on covid. If we get a "magic bullet" therapy we win, if we don't we live with covid. Even vaccines are not 100% effective, like the flu vaccine, we get 40,000 flu deaths a year, and don't bat an eye.

2. Trump has two problems, keeping covid patients alive, and keeping the US economy alive. The problems are interrelated. Trump is a businessman not a medical professional, so he tends to promote saving the economy and hopes that the task force can work the pandemic medically. The doctors only care about patients and not the economy, they apparently think money grows on trees. The US can't keep printing money or we lose our economy. So I agree with you that Trump's focus has been too much on the economy and not enough on mitigation, but we can't shutdown again, the schools need to open, and we need to either defeat covid or learn to live with it.
Trump should start and end every news conference with a reminder about mitigation measures, and to work safely.
I think we've reached agreement on point #1. Way to go!

As for point #2... We are close, except for I think my point still stands about Trumps irresponsible handling and messaging of this pandemic. Yes he is a business man and not a medical professional, he assigned a task force to address COVID, yet he belittles and contradicts the task force professionals on a regular basis. The fastest way to reopen the economy, which we agree is Trumps goal, is to get the virus under control. If going back to March Trump would have promoted mask wearing and social distancing and treated this virus as the serious threat that it is I truly believe we would be in a much better spot right now. All Trump did was play politics though. Pretend like it was no big deal, try to brag and claim wins about everything, deflect responsibly to the states, and push to reopen, which many governors listened too and now we are seeing their states as the hotbeds for resurgence. There is a direct correlation. Trump did and is still doing the exact opposite of leading horses to water when it comes to addressing the pandemic. I know you agree since you haven't provided any examples of Trump promoting mitigating behavior. The few statements he has read about masks and distancing he contradicts usually in the next breath. We all know where he stands and in my opinion it is going to be his undoing.
Its a fine line between "irresponsible messaging" and "skewed or incomplete messaging" based on conflicting and incorrect information. Trump apparently wanted to avoid a panic and everyone heading for the basement in terror. The initial info out of China and the WHO was conflicting and mostly wrong. "There was no human to human transmission"?? WTF? The CDC couldn't do adequate testing early on, etc. Should Trump shutdown air travel from China? Yes, he shut it down, a great decision. The democrats went nuts calling him xenophobic and racist. Then Nancy promotes going out to Chinatown?!
Hindsight being 20/20, I agree Trump did an okay job, probably way better than any PC democrat could have done handling the pandemic. Trump kept the "curve" flatter and within the medical system capacity by stopping flights from China so early. Could Trump have been more serious promoting masks, distancing, and avoiding crowds? Yes, sure, early on. But then there was a battle to reopen the economy or not. Many governors were keeping their states locked-down, and Trump wanted to avoid too many bankruptcies. He did not want to give the governors an excuse to stay shutdown. Right now about 50% of US restaurants are closed permanently. So Trump probably wanted to promote "normalcy" to save jobs and businesses, instead of the "new normal", that being normal but with masks and distancing.
I know this pandemic is China's fault, no one else's.
You sound like an intelligent person so I'm confused on how you don't see the correlation between Trumps messaging and the spread of the virus. It is very simple in my mind. There was a period of a few months April and May when we needed to take this shut down seriously. Wear masks and social distance. Instead of encouraging that kind of behavior he played tough guy talking about going to Easter mass and refusing to wear a mask or promote mask wearing. He belittled the seriousness of the virus, made fun of people who were taking it seriously, and threw seeds of doubt in everything and everyone that urged caution. That was the opportunity to get this thing under control. Instead he kept pushing for reopening and he got what he wanted in some states. Georgia was the first to move and Florida next... Look what happened! Is it really a mystery why the cases spiked in those states. Now 1000s a day are dying and Florida is the worlds hotbed. All helped by political games that Trump was playing. You have to see that. Safety and reopening did not need to fight each other, we could have worked together on this thing but Trump is not a person capable of that kind of unification which is why in my opinion he belongs no where near the White House.
Trump haters have one thing in common, TDS. Its not about truth or facts, its about blaming Trump for everything wrong, his fault or not. We shutdown the entire country Birx and Fauci were on TV always telling folks how to mitigate the virus. Trump and Pence were very busy saving NY & NJ from disaster, even the democrat governors said that the Trump team did great. Blaming Trump for the bad behaviors of people is flat wrong. Look at the crowded beaches, the bars, the protests, "covid parties", sending the infected back to nursing homes, and all the other bad behaviors. They are not Trump's fault. If anyone gets covid after all the warnings and guidance it's probably their own damn fault, not Trumps. Covid is not going away, even with a vaccine. Look at the flu, 40,000 die each year even with vaccines, and no one bats an eye. So stop the partisan accusations that you would never be able to prove in court. If anyone needs to be blamed for the pandemic, its China.
Trumps is also doing his best to blame it on China every time he talks about it. You like him are doing pretty good at deflecting as much blame as you can. It’s curious how easy it is for you blame everybody including the kitchen sink yet Trump comes out as the great leader who did everything he could. I’ve provided example after example of how he acted irresponsibly and you just ignore And deflect. I can tell you’re a smart guy so I know you get it. I can only assume that your ego just won’t let you admit it. So at this point I’ll just drop it... I don’t see this conversation going anywhere Especially after you turned down the TDS road.

nice try, we got close
One more cycle please...then we can agree to disagree....
1. Whose fault is the pandemic, Trump's or China's?
2. Deflecting blame is being honest if no blame is due. Trump is always being attacked for something by the MSM.
3. There are many people involved in the pandemic outcome, Trump, Congress, governors, employers, and each individual.
4. Does Cuomo get any "blame" for sending covid patients back to nursing homes?
5. Who gets the "blame" for meat packing plant outbreaks?
6. Who gets the blame for "covid parties", crowded beaches, crowded bars, and crowded protests?
7. If focusing on the economic recovery more than the virus is "acting irresponsibly" we disagree. Both need attention. Yet you always ignore the economic recovery. Before the pandemic hit the US was doing as well as I can ever remember, it was "prosperity".
8. Its not "ego" as much as "fairness". As much as Trump has been unfairly attacked maybe we do tend to "circle the wagons"
9. If you are a democrat you want Biden to win, so you throw rocks at Trump, I get that, its an election year, fine. But what "cankles" me is the way Trump hatred spewed from the MSM and democrats from his 1st day in office. We never treated any democrat president like that, ever.
10. Getting it all out on the table....
Trump's 1st term was a miracle in itself, the biggest upset in US election history. Hillary and the DNC actually colluded with and paid Russians for "dirt" on Trump, the "Steele Dossier". Obama used the power of the DOJ, FBI, CIA and other Federal agencies to illegally spy on and setup Trump for failure. Operations Crossfire Hurricane and Razor, the Mueller Investigation, Russian Collusion Hoax, the MSM's constant 95% negative coverage and "fake news", Never-Trump Republicans, the Lincoln Project, globalists of every stripe, the entrenched Deep State who all oppose Trump's policies, the planted leakers and whistle-blowers, and the RINOs who'd rather shill for K-Street than work for main street. Then add to all of that the outright hatred shown by the House democrats toward Trump, to the point of "non-crime" Impeachment Articles.
Now democrats are celebrating Deutsche Bank's release of Trump's financial records to NY prosecutors in hopes of nailing Trump with a crime, well good luck with that.
11. We'll see who wins in November, good luck with Joe Biden, hope he shows up for the debates.

p.s. enjoyed the discussion, this is what all forum discussions should be like. I'm sure we'll have more.
Jesus... you had to make 11 points?? Ok fine, here we go.

1. both Trump and China were wildly irresponsible and own fault for needless spread

2. Yes Trumpnis always blames by the MSM. Sometimes it is overblown and most of the time it is valid criticism. The point I’ve brought up are very valid critism.

3. True many people are involved. Trump is president he is going to get the largest spotlight

4. Cuomo handled the pandemic in a very open, honest, and scientific way. Hospitals were over crowding and he used needing homes that had the medical infrastructure to care for patients. The attacks on him are based on partisan spin and not reality. that said... I’m sure there are several things that he could have done better.

5 and 6. As you said blame is shared between leadership, business owners and individuals. Gotta look at case by case. It’s a virus so spread is inevitable so it every case can be link to a criminal act. I've never implied such a thing

7. I don’t see Trump focusing on economic recovery I see him as focusing on campaign 2020. As I’ve said before the best thing for the economy would have been to take the shelter seriously and get the virus under Control as quickly as possible so we could safely open up again. Trump did not do that.

8. I don’t blame you for sticking up for Trump. I welcome the debate. But when you shovel blame at everybody else and can’t acknowledge very valid areas of concern and documented lies and missteps then you become disingenuous.

9. I can only speak for myself but on Election Day I posted on this board to Dems encouraging them to give Trump a chance to lead and set an example of how to be a good minority party. They have failed miserable at that. Yes Trump has been attacked like no other. But that’s not because he is Republican it is because of who he is. Highly combative, blatantly dishonest, and Extremely offensive. It is why I don’t find him suitable for the office he holds. No president should be as hated or controversial as he is.

10. let’s not go down this rabbit hole right now

11. Biden is def not the most exciting candidate . He is old boring and past his prime. But he is leaps and bounds better than captain drama and will be a welcomed change.

Enjoyed the debate as well. Thanks for actually engaging and addressing the topic instead of devolving into the trolling insults. You made some good points that gave me better perspective which is what I look for on this site.

Look forward to the next one.
I wasn't going to reply, but then started thinking....
1. The correct answer is that China is solely responsible for the COVID-19 pandemic, period. Whether the virus was weaponized, or deliberately released is TBD.
2. Yes Trump deserves criticism from time to time, but the MSM coverage is 95% negative as compared to 75% positive for Obama. FXN was the most fair at about 50% positive and negative, according to a Harvard study. Negative publicity and fake news really irks Trump.
3. Not blaming Cuomo for deaths, but just pointing out that governors have many hidden responsibilities, like stockpiling ventilators and PPE. Many hospital workers died helping others while wearing homemade PPE. Another issue is that most factories were moved to China over the last 30-years, so its tough to make things in a hurry, like PPE or ventilators. Who moved all those factories to China?
4. The US did take the shutdown seriously, then the question became, reopen or the $25T economy crashes. There is no getting the virus under control when people are non-complaint. The virus will always be here, just like the flu, so there is no "safely". Your Monday morning quarterbacking is just partisan sniping without proof.
5. Biden is too old, too boring, and too connected. His getting Hunter an $83,000 a month job at Burisma and a cool $1,500,000,000 to invest from China should sound alarms. If Barr and Durham don't start issuing indictments soon the crooks might get away.
Children have died from this virus. Do they usually? No. Do they die the way adults do? No, but that’s not the point. They are not immune. They get sick and infected. They generally have lighter or no symptoms, but after age 10, the best research we have at this point tells us they are just as likely to spread coronavirus as anyone else. And he knows it. he was told that. It is the best reckoning by his own task force
The fact that kids carry and spread it needs to be a knowledge and Trump plays dumb. Kids may not have a high rate of death or bad symptoms but their parents grandparents and teachers all get exposed to the same germs and that seems to be ignored
Are you saying that we should all hide in our basements like Joe Biden? Until when? The virus is not going away.
1. Do you believe that schools should re-open, with mitigation measures, Y/N?
2. If not now, when should the schools reopen, assuming that the vaccines are 6-months out, and will only be 50% effective?
3. What should parents do if they both need to go to work now?
I’m saying we should all act safe and responsible. A little advice... when you parrot the “Biden basement” talking point it makes you sound like a puppet. If you want your opinions treated with respect then stop playing those games. You do realize that the Basement attack was created by Trump to make fun of and demean Biden for actually listening to Trumps safety guidelines. Get the irony? You said earlier that this thing spread because people gathered irresponsibly and trump lead them to water. This a perfect example of Biden actually acting responsibly (leading to water) and Trump promoting the opposite. Get it?

Per your questions:

1. school should open if conditions are in place for a safe and controlled environment. Plans should be in place on how it will be handled if there is an outbreak. The Feds should be helping with recommendations and funding to help create clear standards for this and the local districts should make the final decisions on how to proceed.

3. If parents need to go to work but schools are not open then the government should help those in need with either child care or unemployment support
 

lantern2814

Gold Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2018
Messages
2,732
Reaction score
1,127
Points
210
Can any Trump supporter honestly say they are proud of how Trump answered questions in this interview? He either dodged, spun, or outright lied in almost every statement.

If Trump is doing so well then why can’t he Just honestly address these topics?!

please don’t give your opinion if you haven’t watched the interview. I’m not interested in ignorant talking points.

You're not going to get someone who has sold their soul to this guy to back out now.

He has no shame, they have no shame.
Sad but true... I am so curious about how his supporters feel when they watch an interview like this where he is either clearly lying for political purposes or insanely ignorant to the realities to the situation. I guess don’t expect them to honestly express their feelings on this board but bit maybe there is an honest soul out there willing to share their perspective.

I have a couple friends who were Trump
Supporters ready to vote for him this November that are now disgusted by him by the way he has handled this health crisis.
Yet, i bet they still vote for him. So few will admit they made such a yuge mistake!
Damn right we're voting for Trump again. I saw the entire interview. The interviewer just couldn't get past the democrat talking points. I can give you one example:
The US has so many infected because we test much more than other countries. That is a fact, yet the democrats don't grasp it. Here is the explanation:
1. Other countries do not test until the person enters the hospital with symptoms.
Take India for example, 20m tests and 15,000 tests/1m people, 1.9m cases found.
The US did 61m tests, and 186,000 tests/1m people, 4.9m cases found.
So it is not surprising that in the US we found many more cases (3x) by testing 10x more people per million.
In India there are many more "asymptomatic" or "mildly symptomatic" cases undetected, that would show positive in the US.

2. Trump's handling of the pandemic is totally dependent on citizens mitigating risk. If people party and don't social distance, and have covid parties, then the infection spreads. If people act responsibly, and wear masks, the pandemic can be reduced, see the attached chart. Trump can only lead the horses to water, he can't make them drink.
View attachment 371221
You actually make two good points, I'm glad you chimed in. More testing is going to Statistically show more cases that is true. It it also gives opportunity to slow the spread as identifying cases leads to quarantine, early treatment and contact tracing which ultimately leads to less cases over time. The interviewer, who is very middle of the road and spends a lot of time on Fox, was asking about the death rate in relation to population with really is a more relevant stat. Trump, first failed to explain how we are "over testing" by referencing some unnamed books and manuals, and then he said the only death stats that we can look at are deaths per cases... This makes no sense. Be honest... It really makes no sense.

2. I totally agree about mitigating risk and this is where I think Trump has made his biggest misstep of leadership. He isn't leading horses to water, he is leading them to slaughter. He has been downplaying this virus from the beginning. Instead of being honest about the seriousness of the situation he has tried to dismiss it and score political points. He hasn't promoted masks or social distancing. He has held the largest group event since the shutdown with the Tulsa rally and then Tulsa spiked in cases a few weeks later. Thats crazy. It took him 3 months to finally say people should wear a mask. He had a few measured and read statements about and then when right back to his "Open it all up" attitude. That is just crazy and irresponsible. Do you not see it? Did you not see how he spun and lied through out that entire interview?
1. I watch FXN all day and don't recall ever seeing the Brit interviewer. He's from Axios. The death rate needs to be adjusted over time for many factors. First Cuomo sent covid patients to nursing homes and killed off about 35,000. So we need to adjust for that. Then we are getting much better treatments now, convalescent plasma, Remdesavire, etc. So I agree with Trump that looking at the death reduction over time is critical going forward. The doctors are getting much better at treatments. So looking at old death rates is meaningless. I also prefer deaths/cases/month to see the true trend. Be honest, that makes sense for trending curves.

2. We disagree. Trump has multiple responsibilities, he needs to address COVID-19 and keep the US economy up and running. I agree with Trump. He is doing a much better job with the pandemic and the economy than Biden could do, and you know it. Biden can't find his ass with both hands.
you actually did respond to my reply and I was the on that missed it. My bad.

1. Dana Parino is a big fan of swan so he appears on her show often and he is a regular on Soecial report with Bret Bair.
You didn’t address my point about death rate per population. That is really the most relevant stat to see how the virus has effected a country. The stat the Trump tours is deaths per cases which is dependent on the number of tests/cases identified. Since we test more than most countries then of course that number is going to be low. You see that right?

2. how can you think Trump is guiding the public in a responsible way? You admit that the virus is spread by people gathering and not social distancing. We see example after example of Trump promoting this type of behavior and belittling the recommended guidelines of cautionary actions that his own task force is coming out with.
You lie so much its pathetic. Trump promotes huge gatherings? No, that’s your precious Fauci the fraud and the DIMS and their “go protest and riot” bullshit. That’s not Trump liar. Your TDS and inability to get past “Trump bad” marks you as a demented loon.
I haven't posted one lie. Trumps Tulsa rally to date is the largest indoor gathering that has been held in the United States since the shelter in place orders have gone into effect from COVID outbreaks. There is no lie there, thats a fact.
Now trying to spin and deflect to “indoor”. Sorry loser, Trump still has not encouraged the protests and riots that your side loves to say are necessary. Seems to be a lot of people there with no masks, committing crimes, and generally being incompetent animals. Typical liberals. Your lies are exposed. You lose again,
Not spinning at all.... You should have asked me what I meant if you were confused before jumping to the accusation that I was lying. Yet my point still stands about Trumps Tulsa rally. You are also incorrect that Trump hasn't encouraged protests... Don't you remember the Michigan protests that he tweeted about? "LIBERATE."

I don't have a side nor do I support riots and while I sympathize with the equality cause I think much of the protests are very poor judgment that definitely contributed to spreading the virus... yet another thing you could have learned with a question instead of making ignorant presumptive insults.
Blah blah blah. “Trump bad. Anyone who disagrees with the Dims is wrong”. There. Your entire philosophy in two simple phrases. Didn’t you get embarrassed enough on your total ignorance of the 1619 bullshit? You’re the ignorant one here. In Michigan they didn’t riot or burn the statehouse like your side likes to do. Another fail. Try again. You’re weak boy.
 
OP
Slade3200

Slade3200

Platinum Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2016
Messages
33,816
Reaction score
3,962
Points
1,140
Can any Trump supporter honestly say they are proud of how Trump answered questions in this interview? He either dodged, spun, or outright lied in almost every statement.

If Trump is doing so well then why can’t he Just honestly address these topics?!

please don’t give your opinion if you haven’t watched the interview. I’m not interested in ignorant talking points.

You're not going to get someone who has sold their soul to this guy to back out now.

He has no shame, they have no shame.
Sad but true... I am so curious about how his supporters feel when they watch an interview like this where he is either clearly lying for political purposes or insanely ignorant to the realities to the situation. I guess don’t expect them to honestly express their feelings on this board but bit maybe there is an honest soul out there willing to share their perspective.

I have a couple friends who were Trump
Supporters ready to vote for him this November that are now disgusted by him by the way he has handled this health crisis.
Yet, i bet they still vote for him. So few will admit they made such a yuge mistake!
Damn right we're voting for Trump again. I saw the entire interview. The interviewer just couldn't get past the democrat talking points. I can give you one example:
The US has so many infected because we test much more than other countries. That is a fact, yet the democrats don't grasp it. Here is the explanation:
1. Other countries do not test until the person enters the hospital with symptoms.
Take India for example, 20m tests and 15,000 tests/1m people, 1.9m cases found.
The US did 61m tests, and 186,000 tests/1m people, 4.9m cases found.
So it is not surprising that in the US we found many more cases (3x) by testing 10x more people per million.
In India there are many more "asymptomatic" or "mildly symptomatic" cases undetected, that would show positive in the US.

2. Trump's handling of the pandemic is totally dependent on citizens mitigating risk. If people party and don't social distance, and have covid parties, then the infection spreads. If people act responsibly, and wear masks, the pandemic can be reduced, see the attached chart. Trump can only lead the horses to water, he can't make them drink.
View attachment 371221
You actually make two good points, I'm glad you chimed in. More testing is going to Statistically show more cases that is true. It it also gives opportunity to slow the spread as identifying cases leads to quarantine, early treatment and contact tracing which ultimately leads to less cases over time. The interviewer, who is very middle of the road and spends a lot of time on Fox, was asking about the death rate in relation to population with really is a more relevant stat. Trump, first failed to explain how we are "over testing" by referencing some unnamed books and manuals, and then he said the only death stats that we can look at are deaths per cases... This makes no sense. Be honest... It really makes no sense.

2. I totally agree about mitigating risk and this is where I think Trump has made his biggest misstep of leadership. He isn't leading horses to water, he is leading them to slaughter. He has been downplaying this virus from the beginning. Instead of being honest about the seriousness of the situation he has tried to dismiss it and score political points. He hasn't promoted masks or social distancing. He has held the largest group event since the shutdown with the Tulsa rally and then Tulsa spiked in cases a few weeks later. Thats crazy. It took him 3 months to finally say people should wear a mask. He had a few measured and read statements about and then when right back to his "Open it all up" attitude. That is just crazy and irresponsible. Do you not see it? Did you not see how he spun and lied through out that entire interview?
1. I watch FXN all day and don't recall ever seeing the Brit interviewer. He's from Axios. The death rate needs to be adjusted over time for many factors. First Cuomo sent covid patients to nursing homes and killed off about 35,000. So we need to adjust for that. Then we are getting much better treatments now, convalescent plasma, Remdesavire, etc. So I agree with Trump that looking at the death reduction over time is critical going forward. The doctors are getting much better at treatments. So looking at old death rates is meaningless. I also prefer deaths/cases/month to see the true trend. Be honest, that makes sense for trending curves.

2. We disagree. Trump has multiple responsibilities, he needs to address COVID-19 and keep the US economy up and running. I agree with Trump. He is doing a much better job with the pandemic and the economy than Biden could do, and you know it. Biden can't find his ass with both hands.
you actually did respond to my reply and I was the on that missed it. My bad.

1. Dana Parino is a big fan of swan so he appears on her show often and he is a regular on Soecial report with Bret Bair.
You didn’t address my point about death rate per population. That is really the most relevant stat to see how the virus has effected a country. The stat the Trump tours is deaths per cases which is dependent on the number of tests/cases identified. Since we test more than most countries then of course that number is going to be low. You see that right?

2. how can you think Trump is guiding the public in a responsible way? You admit that the virus is spread by people gathering and not social distancing. We see example after example of Trump promoting this type of behavior and belittling the recommended guidelines of cautionary actions that his own task force is coming out with.
You lie so much its pathetic. Trump promotes huge gatherings? No, that’s your precious Fauci the fraud and the DIMS and their “go protest and riot” bullshit. That’s not Trump liar. Your TDS and inability to get past “Trump bad” marks you as a demented loon.
I haven't posted one lie. Trumps Tulsa rally to date is the largest indoor gathering that has been held in the United States since the shelter in place orders have gone into effect from COVID outbreaks. There is no lie there, thats a fact.
Now trying to spin and deflect to “indoor”. Sorry loser, Trump still has not encouraged the protests and riots that your side loves to say are necessary. Seems to be a lot of people there with no masks, committing crimes, and generally being incompetent animals. Typical liberals. Your lies are exposed. You lose again,
Not spinning at all.... You should have asked me what I meant if you were confused before jumping to the accusation that I was lying. Yet my point still stands about Trumps Tulsa rally. You are also incorrect that Trump hasn't encouraged protests... Don't you remember the Michigan protests that he tweeted about? "LIBERATE."

I don't have a side nor do I support riots and while I sympathize with the equality cause I think much of the protests are very poor judgment that definitely contributed to spreading the virus... yet another thing you could have learned with a question instead of making ignorant presumptive insults.
Blah blah blah. “Trump bad. Anyone who disagrees with the Dims is wrong”. There. Your entire philosophy in two simple phrases. Didn’t you get embarrassed enough on your total ignorance of the 1619 bullshit? You’re the ignorant one here. In Michigan they didn’t riot or burn the statehouse like your side likes to do. Another fail. Try again. You’re weak boy.
There a cop out of a reply if I’ve ever seen one. All I did in the 1619 debate was ask anybody to show me a lie and NOBODY could.

so how am I being ignorant here? Because I don’t support looting and destruction, because I’m calling out the hoards of protestors not acting safely as part of the problem or because I’m accurately calling out Trumps irresponsible actions in regards to the pandemic? How many other 12k person events have been organized since the shut down?
 

lantern2814

Gold Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2018
Messages
2,732
Reaction score
1,127
Points
210
Can any Trump supporter honestly say they are proud of how Trump answered questions in this interview? He either dodged, spun, or outright lied in almost every statement.

If Trump is doing so well then why can’t he Just honestly address these topics?!

please don’t give your opinion if you haven’t watched the interview. I’m not interested in ignorant talking points.

You're not going to get someone who has sold their soul to this guy to back out now.

He has no shame, they have no shame.
Sad but true... I am so curious about how his supporters feel when they watch an interview like this where he is either clearly lying for political purposes or insanely ignorant to the realities to the situation. I guess don’t expect them to honestly express their feelings on this board but bit maybe there is an honest soul out there willing to share their perspective.

I have a couple friends who were Trump
Supporters ready to vote for him this November that are now disgusted by him by the way he has handled this health crisis.
Yet, i bet they still vote for him. So few will admit they made such a yuge mistake!
Damn right we're voting for Trump again. I saw the entire interview. The interviewer just couldn't get past the democrat talking points. I can give you one example:
The US has so many infected because we test much more than other countries. That is a fact, yet the democrats don't grasp it. Here is the explanation:
1. Other countries do not test until the person enters the hospital with symptoms.
Take India for example, 20m tests and 15,000 tests/1m people, 1.9m cases found.
The US did 61m tests, and 186,000 tests/1m people, 4.9m cases found.
So it is not surprising that in the US we found many more cases (3x) by testing 10x more people per million.
In India there are many more "asymptomatic" or "mildly symptomatic" cases undetected, that would show positive in the US.

2. Trump's handling of the pandemic is totally dependent on citizens mitigating risk. If people party and don't social distance, and have covid parties, then the infection spreads. If people act responsibly, and wear masks, the pandemic can be reduced, see the attached chart. Trump can only lead the horses to water, he can't make them drink.
View attachment 371221
You actually make two good points, I'm glad you chimed in. More testing is going to Statistically show more cases that is true. It it also gives opportunity to slow the spread as identifying cases leads to quarantine, early treatment and contact tracing which ultimately leads to less cases over time. The interviewer, who is very middle of the road and spends a lot of time on Fox, was asking about the death rate in relation to population with really is a more relevant stat. Trump, first failed to explain how we are "over testing" by referencing some unnamed books and manuals, and then he said the only death stats that we can look at are deaths per cases... This makes no sense. Be honest... It really makes no sense.

2. I totally agree about mitigating risk and this is where I think Trump has made his biggest misstep of leadership. He isn't leading horses to water, he is leading them to slaughter. He has been downplaying this virus from the beginning. Instead of being honest about the seriousness of the situation he has tried to dismiss it and score political points. He hasn't promoted masks or social distancing. He has held the largest group event since the shutdown with the Tulsa rally and then Tulsa spiked in cases a few weeks later. Thats crazy. It took him 3 months to finally say people should wear a mask. He had a few measured and read statements about and then when right back to his "Open it all up" attitude. That is just crazy and irresponsible. Do you not see it? Did you not see how he spun and lied through out that entire interview?
1. I watch FXN all day and don't recall ever seeing the Brit interviewer. He's from Axios. The death rate needs to be adjusted over time for many factors. First Cuomo sent covid patients to nursing homes and killed off about 35,000. So we need to adjust for that. Then we are getting much better treatments now, convalescent plasma, Remdesavire, etc. So I agree with Trump that looking at the death reduction over time is critical going forward. The doctors are getting much better at treatments. So looking at old death rates is meaningless. I also prefer deaths/cases/month to see the true trend. Be honest, that makes sense for trending curves.

2. We disagree. Trump has multiple responsibilities, he needs to address COVID-19 and keep the US economy up and running. I agree with Trump. He is doing a much better job with the pandemic and the economy than Biden could do, and you know it. Biden can't find his ass with both hands.
you actually did respond to my reply and I was the on that missed it. My bad.

1. Dana Parino is a big fan of swan so he appears on her show often and he is a regular on Soecial report with Bret Bair.
You didn’t address my point about death rate per population. That is really the most relevant stat to see how the virus has effected a country. The stat the Trump tours is deaths per cases which is dependent on the number of tests/cases identified. Since we test more than most countries then of course that number is going to be low. You see that right?

2. how can you think Trump is guiding the public in a responsible way? You admit that the virus is spread by people gathering and not social distancing. We see example after example of Trump promoting this type of behavior and belittling the recommended guidelines of cautionary actions that his own task force is coming out with.
You lie so much its pathetic. Trump promotes huge gatherings? No, that’s your precious Fauci the fraud and the DIMS and their “go protest and riot” bullshit. That’s not Trump liar. Your TDS and inability to get past “Trump bad” marks you as a demented loon.
I haven't posted one lie. Trumps Tulsa rally to date is the largest indoor gathering that has been held in the United States since the shelter in place orders have gone into effect from COVID outbreaks. There is no lie there, thats a fact.
Now trying to spin and deflect to “indoor”. Sorry loser, Trump still has not encouraged the protests and riots that your side loves to say are necessary. Seems to be a lot of people there with no masks, committing crimes, and generally being incompetent animals. Typical liberals. Your lies are exposed. You lose again,
Not spinning at all.... You should have asked me what I meant if you were confused before jumping to the accusation that I was lying. Yet my point still stands about Trumps Tulsa rally. You are also incorrect that Trump hasn't encouraged protests... Don't you remember the Michigan protests that he tweeted about? "LIBERATE."

I don't have a side nor do I support riots and while I sympathize with the equality cause I think much of the protests are very poor judgment that definitely contributed to spreading the virus... yet another thing you could have learned with a question instead of making ignorant presumptive insults.
Blah blah blah. “Trump bad. Anyone who disagrees with the Dims is wrong”. There. Your entire philosophy in two simple phrases. Didn’t you get embarrassed enough on your total ignorance of the 1619 bullshit? You’re the ignorant one here. In Michigan they didn’t riot or burn the statehouse like your side likes to do. Another fail. Try again. You’re weak boy.
There a cop out of a reply if I’ve ever seen one. All I did in the 1619 debate was ask anybody to show me a lie and NOBODY could.

so how am I being ignorant here? Because I don’t support looting and destruction, because I’m calling out the hoards of protestors not acting safely as part of the problem or because I’m accurately calling out Trumps irresponsible actions in regards to the pandemic? How many other 12k person events have been organized since the shut down?
NO, YOU are a cop out and a liar. You got shown SEVERAL lies and ignored them because you’re an illiterate hack who only parrots your liberal masters. Independent thought is foreign to you. Calling out Trump and letting Cuomo slide. Shows your utter partisanship better than anything.
 
OP
Slade3200

Slade3200

Platinum Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2016
Messages
33,816
Reaction score
3,962
Points
1,140
Can any Trump supporter honestly say they are proud of how Trump answered questions in this interview? He either dodged, spun, or outright lied in almost every statement.

If Trump is doing so well then why can’t he Just honestly address these topics?!

please don’t give your opinion if you haven’t watched the interview. I’m not interested in ignorant talking points.

You're not going to get someone who has sold their soul to this guy to back out now.

He has no shame, they have no shame.
Sad but true... I am so curious about how his supporters feel when they watch an interview like this where he is either clearly lying for political purposes or insanely ignorant to the realities to the situation. I guess don’t expect them to honestly express their feelings on this board but bit maybe there is an honest soul out there willing to share their perspective.

I have a couple friends who were Trump
Supporters ready to vote for him this November that are now disgusted by him by the way he has handled this health crisis.
Yet, i bet they still vote for him. So few will admit they made such a yuge mistake!
Damn right we're voting for Trump again. I saw the entire interview. The interviewer just couldn't get past the democrat talking points. I can give you one example:
The US has so many infected because we test much more than other countries. That is a fact, yet the democrats don't grasp it. Here is the explanation:
1. Other countries do not test until the person enters the hospital with symptoms.
Take India for example, 20m tests and 15,000 tests/1m people, 1.9m cases found.
The US did 61m tests, and 186,000 tests/1m people, 4.9m cases found.
So it is not surprising that in the US we found many more cases (3x) by testing 10x more people per million.
In India there are many more "asymptomatic" or "mildly symptomatic" cases undetected, that would show positive in the US.

2. Trump's handling of the pandemic is totally dependent on citizens mitigating risk. If people party and don't social distance, and have covid parties, then the infection spreads. If people act responsibly, and wear masks, the pandemic can be reduced, see the attached chart. Trump can only lead the horses to water, he can't make them drink.
View attachment 371221
You actually make two good points, I'm glad you chimed in. More testing is going to Statistically show more cases that is true. It it also gives opportunity to slow the spread as identifying cases leads to quarantine, early treatment and contact tracing which ultimately leads to less cases over time. The interviewer, who is very middle of the road and spends a lot of time on Fox, was asking about the death rate in relation to population with really is a more relevant stat. Trump, first failed to explain how we are "over testing" by referencing some unnamed books and manuals, and then he said the only death stats that we can look at are deaths per cases... This makes no sense. Be honest... It really makes no sense.

2. I totally agree about mitigating risk and this is where I think Trump has made his biggest misstep of leadership. He isn't leading horses to water, he is leading them to slaughter. He has been downplaying this virus from the beginning. Instead of being honest about the seriousness of the situation he has tried to dismiss it and score political points. He hasn't promoted masks or social distancing. He has held the largest group event since the shutdown with the Tulsa rally and then Tulsa spiked in cases a few weeks later. Thats crazy. It took him 3 months to finally say people should wear a mask. He had a few measured and read statements about and then when right back to his "Open it all up" attitude. That is just crazy and irresponsible. Do you not see it? Did you not see how he spun and lied through out that entire interview?
1. I watch FXN all day and don't recall ever seeing the Brit interviewer. He's from Axios. The death rate needs to be adjusted over time for many factors. First Cuomo sent covid patients to nursing homes and killed off about 35,000. So we need to adjust for that. Then we are getting much better treatments now, convalescent plasma, Remdesavire, etc. So I agree with Trump that looking at the death reduction over time is critical going forward. The doctors are getting much better at treatments. So looking at old death rates is meaningless. I also prefer deaths/cases/month to see the true trend. Be honest, that makes sense for trending curves.

2. We disagree. Trump has multiple responsibilities, he needs to address COVID-19 and keep the US economy up and running. I agree with Trump. He is doing a much better job with the pandemic and the economy than Biden could do, and you know it. Biden can't find his ass with both hands.
you actually did respond to my reply and I was the on that missed it. My bad.

1. Dana Parino is a big fan of swan so he appears on her show often and he is a regular on Soecial report with Bret Bair.
You didn’t address my point about death rate per population. That is really the most relevant stat to see how the virus has effected a country. The stat the Trump tours is deaths per cases which is dependent on the number of tests/cases identified. Since we test more than most countries then of course that number is going to be low. You see that right?

2. how can you think Trump is guiding the public in a responsible way? You admit that the virus is spread by people gathering and not social distancing. We see example after example of Trump promoting this type of behavior and belittling the recommended guidelines of cautionary actions that his own task force is coming out with.
You lie so much its pathetic. Trump promotes huge gatherings? No, that’s your precious Fauci the fraud and the DIMS and their “go protest and riot” bullshit. That’s not Trump liar. Your TDS and inability to get past “Trump bad” marks you as a demented loon.
I haven't posted one lie. Trumps Tulsa rally to date is the largest indoor gathering that has been held in the United States since the shelter in place orders have gone into effect from COVID outbreaks. There is no lie there, thats a fact.
Now trying to spin and deflect to “indoor”. Sorry loser, Trump still has not encouraged the protests and riots that your side loves to say are necessary. Seems to be a lot of people there with no masks, committing crimes, and generally being incompetent animals. Typical liberals. Your lies are exposed. You lose again,
Not spinning at all.... You should have asked me what I meant if you were confused before jumping to the accusation that I was lying. Yet my point still stands about Trumps Tulsa rally. You are also incorrect that Trump hasn't encouraged protests... Don't you remember the Michigan protests that he tweeted about? "LIBERATE."

I don't have a side nor do I support riots and while I sympathize with the equality cause I think much of the protests are very poor judgment that definitely contributed to spreading the virus... yet another thing you could have learned with a question instead of making ignorant presumptive insults.
Blah blah blah. “Trump bad. Anyone who disagrees with the Dims is wrong”. There. Your entire philosophy in two simple phrases. Didn’t you get embarrassed enough on your total ignorance of the 1619 bullshit? You’re the ignorant one here. In Michigan they didn’t riot or burn the statehouse like your side likes to do. Another fail. Try again. You’re weak boy.
There a cop out of a reply if I’ve ever seen one. All I did in the 1619 debate was ask anybody to show me a lie and NOBODY could.

so how am I being ignorant here? Because I don’t support looting and destruction, because I’m calling out the hoards of protestors not acting safely as part of the problem or because I’m accurately calling out Trumps irresponsible actions in regards to the pandemic? How many other 12k person events have been organized since the shut down?
NO, YOU are a cop out and a liar. You got shown SEVERAL lies and ignored them because you’re an illiterate hack who only parrots your liberal masters. Independent thought is foreign to you. Calling out Trump and letting Cuomo slide. Shows your utter partisanship better than anything.
Not one lie was shown. I call out Trump because he lies constantly, I respected Cuomos transparency when dealing with the pandemic. It’s not complicated
 

initforme

Gold Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2011
Messages
13,680
Reaction score
1,516
Points
265
Kzr said football and school are wanted. Yes they are. But right now neither should be happening. Responsible adults know this
 

kyzr

Platinum Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2009
Messages
15,581
Reaction score
6,205
Points
350
Location
The AL part of PA
Can any Trump supporter honestly say they are proud of how Trump answered questions in this interview? He either dodged, spun, or outright lied in almost every statement.

If Trump is doing so well then why can’t he Just honestly address these topics?!

please don’t give your opinion if you haven’t watched the interview. I’m not interested in ignorant talking points.

You're not going to get someone who has sold their soul to this guy to back out now.

He has no shame, they have no shame.
Sad but true... I am so curious about how his supporters feel when they watch an interview like this where he is either clearly lying for political purposes or insanely ignorant to the realities to the situation. I guess don’t expect them to honestly express their feelings on this board but bit maybe there is an honest soul out there willing to share their perspective.

I have a couple friends who were Trump
Supporters ready to vote for him this November that are now disgusted by him by the way he has handled this health crisis.
Yet, i bet they still vote for him. So few will admit they made such a yuge mistake!
Damn right we're voting for Trump again. I saw the entire interview. The interviewer just couldn't get past the democrat talking points. I can give you one example:
The US has so many infected because we test much more than other countries. That is a fact, yet the democrats don't grasp it. Here is the explanation:
1. Other countries do not test until the person enters the hospital with symptoms.
Take India for example, 20m tests and 15,000 tests/1m people, 1.9m cases found.
The US did 61m tests, and 186,000 tests/1m people, 4.9m cases found.
So it is not surprising that in the US we found many more cases (3x) by testing 10x more people per million.
In India there are many more "asymptomatic" or "mildly symptomatic" cases undetected, that would show positive in the US.

2. Trump's handling of the pandemic is totally dependent on citizens mitigating risk. If people party and don't social distance, and have covid parties, then the infection spreads. If people act responsibly, and wear masks, the pandemic can be reduced, see the attached chart. Trump can only lead the horses to water, he can't make them drink.
View attachment 371221
You actually make two good points, I'm glad you chimed in. More testing is going to Statistically show more cases that is true. It it also gives opportunity to slow the spread as identifying cases leads to quarantine, early treatment and contact tracing which ultimately leads to less cases over time. The interviewer, who is very middle of the road and spends a lot of time on Fox, was asking about the death rate in relation to population with really is a more relevant stat. Trump, first failed to explain how we are "over testing" by referencing some unnamed books and manuals, and then he said the only death stats that we can look at are deaths per cases... This makes no sense. Be honest... It really makes no sense.

2. I totally agree about mitigating risk and this is where I think Trump has made his biggest misstep of leadership. He isn't leading horses to water, he is leading them to slaughter. He has been downplaying this virus from the beginning. Instead of being honest about the seriousness of the situation he has tried to dismiss it and score political points. He hasn't promoted masks or social distancing. He has held the largest group event since the shutdown with the Tulsa rally and then Tulsa spiked in cases a few weeks later. Thats crazy. It took him 3 months to finally say people should wear a mask. He had a few measured and read statements about and then when right back to his "Open it all up" attitude. That is just crazy and irresponsible. Do you not see it? Did you not see how he spun and lied through out that entire interview?
1. I watch FXN all day and don't recall ever seeing the Brit interviewer. He's from Axios. The death rate needs to be adjusted over time for many factors. First Cuomo sent covid patients to nursing homes and killed off about 35,000. So we need to adjust for that. Then we are getting much better treatments now, convalescent plasma, Remdesavire, etc. So I agree with Trump that looking at the death reduction over time is critical going forward. The doctors are getting much better at treatments. So looking at old death rates is meaningless. I also prefer deaths/cases/month to see the true trend. Be honest, that makes sense for trending curves.

2. We disagree. Trump has multiple responsibilities, he needs to address COVID-19 and keep the US economy up and running. I agree with Trump. He is doing a much better job with the pandemic and the economy than Biden could do, and you know it. Biden can't find his ass with both hands.
you actually did respond to my reply and I was the on that missed it. My bad.

1. Dana Parino is a big fan of swan so he appears on her show often and he is a regular on Special report with Bret Bair.
You didn’t address my point about death rate per population. That is really the most relevant stat to see how the virus has effected a country. The stat the Trump tours is deaths per cases which is dependent on the number of tests/cases identified. Since we test more than most countries then of course that number is going to be low. You see that right?

2. how can you think Trump is guiding the public in a responsible way? You admit that the virus is spread by people gathering and not social distancing. We see example after example of Trump promoting this type of behavior and belittling the recommended guidelines of cautionary actions that his own task force is coming out with.
1. Apology accepted, thanks. I miss stuff on occasion too. I like that you debate ideas and facts instead of slinging crap in a TDS food fight. This response is copied from my post #15. So the answer is, it depends if you want better numbers or worse numbers. I made a good living proving answers mathematically that the bosses want.
"The death rate needs to be adjusted over time for many factors. First Cuomo sent covid patients to nursing homes and killed off about 35,000. So we need to adjust for that. Then we are getting much better treatments now, convalescent plasma, Remdesavire, etc. So I agree with Trump that looking at the death reduction over time is critical going forward. The doctors are getting much better at treatments. So looking at old death rates is meaningless. I also prefer deaths/cases/month to see the true trend. Be honest, that makes sense for trending curves."
So look at each case:
a. Deaths per population:
The downside of this is that it doesn't capture trends, it is a much slower moving number. For example, when NY & NJ killed off their nursing home population, those "preventable" deaths stay in the number of "dead/population". Making the ratio look worse than it is. Not a good tool for tracking progress vs the virus.

b. Deaths per cases:
Its important to plot deaths/cases/month to show trends. Are we gaining or is the virus gaining? Look at the high deaths in NY & NJ at the start. Those deaths are "outliers" today. The stat that is most important is "are we winning or is the virus winning?"
I agree that using "deaths/cases/month" is a much more current statistic for how the nation is doing vs the pandemic. As treatments improve, death rates drop. Convalescent plasma and Remdesivir are game changers, as even more effective therapies are approved, the deaths/case will continue to drop. Agree that more testing means more cases and a lower ratio. But the "deaths/cases" ratio on a "per month" basis is the most accurate way to capture how we are doing vs the virus over time.

2. Trump always advises people to mitigate. He also needs the economy to reopen. Its a tough job when people keep partying. When the population "complies" we will beat COVID-19. Until then its not Trump's fault. It's China's fault.
I'm an engineer so I lean into the analytical and not the puff puff opinion stuff. So I always appreciate a substantive debate.

1. I understand what you are saying about the death/case stats. They are important when tracking trends within a country and working to mitigate the spread. The problem is, Trump is using those stats to brag about how great we are compared to other countries. Once you go there you aren't comparing like items. The only way to properly compare the effects of the virus in our country vs other countries is to look at deaths vs population and in that stat we are failing. The NY NJ nursing home accusation is a much larger debate which I would challenge your premise but lets not go there right now.

2. I get that Trump wants the economy to open, but when can you point to him encouraging people to take this seriously and commit to safe practices. Go back as far as you want, to the beginning of the shut down... People needed and still need to take this thing seriously and Trump has been downplaying it the whole time and literally encouraging the types of behavior that lead to more spread. You said "leading a horse to water" What exactly has Trump done to lead the horses to water and encourage the type of behavior that slows the spread? Can you point to some examples?
I'm also a PE. So we both know our numbers.

1. I disagree that the "only way to properly compare the effects of the virus" vs other countries is deaths/pop. As you said initially, the deaths/case stat tracks how the US is doing over time as the medications improve. My argument against comparing countries is that we have no way of knowing if their numbers are accurate. So comparing countries is still apples to oranges, no matter what "squishy" numbers you compare.

2. I can recall Pence, Birx, and Fauci recommending washing hands, distancing, masks. Then I recall "covid parties", bars open, crowded beaches, and BLM protests, etc. Until the population complies with guidance the virus will spread.


1. I've heard that response, that you can't trust the other countries numbers. If thats what you are going with then there is nothing more to discuss. I can't prove the numbers are accurate and you can't prove they are false so the debate in then over. But if thats the case then we should both be in agreement that the comparisons that Trump is touting when he said we are doing better than the world with death rate is BS, right?

2. I recall Pence, Fauci, and Birx making those recommendations too. And then Trump tweeting and taking actions that promoted the opposite. Can you find any examples of TRUMP leading the horses to water? Because I have dozens showing him doing the opposite.
1. Absolutely! Total BS. Trump brags on the US and his record, and the Trump haters try to use false comparisons to make him look bad. Its all partisan bullshit using squishy numbers. The only true numbers as far as I can tell are deaths/case/month here in the US to see if the medical research is gaining on covid. If we get a "magic bullet" therapy we win, if we don't we live with covid. Even vaccines are not 100% effective, like the flu vaccine, we get 40,000 flu deaths a year, and don't bat an eye.

2. Trump has two problems, keeping covid patients alive, and keeping the US economy alive. The problems are interrelated. Trump is a businessman not a medical professional, so he tends to promote saving the economy and hopes that the task force can work the pandemic medically. The doctors only care about patients and not the economy, they apparently think money grows on trees. The US can't keep printing money or we lose our economy. So I agree with you that Trump's focus has been too much on the economy and not enough on mitigation, but we can't shutdown again, the schools need to open, and we need to either defeat covid or learn to live with it.
Trump should start and end every news conference with a reminder about mitigation measures, and to work safely.
I think we've reached agreement on point #1. Way to go!

As for point #2... We are close, except for I think my point still stands about Trumps irresponsible handling and messaging of this pandemic. Yes he is a business man and not a medical professional, he assigned a task force to address COVID, yet he belittles and contradicts the task force professionals on a regular basis. The fastest way to reopen the economy, which we agree is Trumps goal, is to get the virus under control. If going back to March Trump would have promoted mask wearing and social distancing and treated this virus as the serious threat that it is I truly believe we would be in a much better spot right now. All Trump did was play politics though. Pretend like it was no big deal, try to brag and claim wins about everything, deflect responsibly to the states, and push to reopen, which many governors listened too and now we are seeing their states as the hotbeds for resurgence. There is a direct correlation. Trump did and is still doing the exact opposite of leading horses to water when it comes to addressing the pandemic. I know you agree since you haven't provided any examples of Trump promoting mitigating behavior. The few statements he has read about masks and distancing he contradicts usually in the next breath. We all know where he stands and in my opinion it is going to be his undoing.
Its a fine line between "irresponsible messaging" and "skewed or incomplete messaging" based on conflicting and incorrect information. Trump apparently wanted to avoid a panic and everyone heading for the basement in terror. The initial info out of China and the WHO was conflicting and mostly wrong. "There was no human to human transmission"?? WTF? The CDC couldn't do adequate testing early on, etc. Should Trump shutdown air travel from China? Yes, he shut it down, a great decision. The democrats went nuts calling him xenophobic and racist. Then Nancy promotes going out to Chinatown?!
Hindsight being 20/20, I agree Trump did an okay job, probably way better than any PC democrat could have done handling the pandemic. Trump kept the "curve" flatter and within the medical system capacity by stopping flights from China so early. Could Trump have been more serious promoting masks, distancing, and avoiding crowds? Yes, sure, early on. But then there was a battle to reopen the economy or not. Many governors were keeping their states locked-down, and Trump wanted to avoid too many bankruptcies. He did not want to give the governors an excuse to stay shutdown. Right now about 50% of US restaurants are closed permanently. So Trump probably wanted to promote "normalcy" to save jobs and businesses, instead of the "new normal", that being normal but with masks and distancing.
I know this pandemic is China's fault, no one else's.
You sound like an intelligent person so I'm confused on how you don't see the correlation between Trumps messaging and the spread of the virus. It is very simple in my mind. There was a period of a few months April and May when we needed to take this shut down seriously. Wear masks and social distance. Instead of encouraging that kind of behavior he played tough guy talking about going to Easter mass and refusing to wear a mask or promote mask wearing. He belittled the seriousness of the virus, made fun of people who were taking it seriously, and threw seeds of doubt in everything and everyone that urged caution. That was the opportunity to get this thing under control. Instead he kept pushing for reopening and he got what he wanted in some states. Georgia was the first to move and Florida next... Look what happened! Is it really a mystery why the cases spiked in those states. Now 1000s a day are dying and Florida is the worlds hotbed. All helped by political games that Trump was playing. You have to see that. Safety and reopening did not need to fight each other, we could have worked together on this thing but Trump is not a person capable of that kind of unification which is why in my opinion he belongs no where near the White House.
Trump haters have one thing in common, TDS. Its not about truth or facts, its about blaming Trump for everything wrong, his fault or not. We shutdown the entire country Birx and Fauci were on TV always telling folks how to mitigate the virus. Trump and Pence were very busy saving NY & NJ from disaster, even the democrat governors said that the Trump team did great. Blaming Trump for the bad behaviors of people is flat wrong. Look at the crowded beaches, the bars, the protests, "covid parties", sending the infected back to nursing homes, and all the other bad behaviors. They are not Trump's fault. If anyone gets covid after all the warnings and guidance it's probably their own damn fault, not Trumps. Covid is not going away, even with a vaccine. Look at the flu, 40,000 die each year even with vaccines, and no one bats an eye. So stop the partisan accusations that you would never be able to prove in court. If anyone needs to be blamed for the pandemic, its China.
Trumps is also doing his best to blame it on China every time he talks about it. You like him are doing pretty good at deflecting as much blame as you can. It’s curious how easy it is for you blame everybody including the kitchen sink yet Trump comes out as the great leader who did everything he could. I’ve provided example after example of how he acted irresponsibly and you just ignore And deflect. I can tell you’re a smart guy so I know you get it. I can only assume that your ego just won’t let you admit it. So at this point I’ll just drop it... I don’t see this conversation going anywhere Especially after you turned down the TDS road.

nice try, we got close
One more cycle please...then we can agree to disagree....
1. Whose fault is the pandemic, Trump's or China's?
2. Deflecting blame is being honest if no blame is due. Trump is always being attacked for something by the MSM.
3. There are many people involved in the pandemic outcome, Trump, Congress, governors, employers, and each individual.
4. Does Cuomo get any "blame" for sending covid patients back to nursing homes?
5. Who gets the "blame" for meat packing plant outbreaks?
6. Who gets the blame for "covid parties", crowded beaches, crowded bars, and crowded protests?
7. If focusing on the economic recovery more than the virus is "acting irresponsibly" we disagree. Both need attention. Yet you always ignore the economic recovery. Before the pandemic hit the US was doing as well as I can ever remember, it was "prosperity".
8. Its not "ego" as much as "fairness". As much as Trump has been unfairly attacked maybe we do tend to "circle the wagons"
9. If you are a democrat you want Biden to win, so you throw rocks at Trump, I get that, its an election year, fine. But what "cankles" me is the way Trump hatred spewed from the MSM and democrats from his 1st day in office. We never treated any democrat president like that, ever.
10. Getting it all out on the table....
Trump's 1st term was a miracle in itself, the biggest upset in US election history. Hillary and the DNC actually colluded with and paid Russians for "dirt" on Trump, the "Steele Dossier". Obama used the power of the DOJ, FBI, CIA and other Federal agencies to illegally spy on and setup Trump for failure. Operations Crossfire Hurricane and Razor, the Mueller Investigation, Russian Collusion Hoax, the MSM's constant 95% negative coverage and "fake news", Never-Trump Republicans, the Lincoln Project, globalists of every stripe, the entrenched Deep State who all oppose Trump's policies, the planted leakers and whistle-blowers, and the RINOs who'd rather shill for K-Street than work for main street. Then add to all of that the outright hatred shown by the House democrats toward Trump, to the point of "non-crime" Impeachment Articles.
Now democrats are celebrating Deutsche Bank's release of Trump's financial records to NY prosecutors in hopes of nailing Trump with a crime, well good luck with that.
11. We'll see who wins in November, good luck with Joe Biden, hope he shows up for the debates.

p.s. enjoyed the discussion, this is what all forum discussions should be like. I'm sure we'll have more.
Jesus... you had to make 11 points?? Ok fine, here we go.

1. both Trump and China were wildly irresponsible and own fault for needless spread

2. Yes Trumpnis always blames by the MSM. Sometimes it is overblown and most of the time it is valid criticism. The point I’ve brought up are very valid critism.

3. True many people are involved. Trump is president he is going to get the largest spotlight

4. Cuomo handled the pandemic in a very open, honest, and scientific way. Hospitals were over crowding and he used needing homes that had the medical infrastructure to care for patients. The attacks on him are based on partisan spin and not reality. that said... I’m sure there are several things that he could have done better.

5 and 6. As you said blame is shared between leadership, business owners and individuals. Gotta look at case by case. It’s a virus so spread is inevitable so it every case can be link to a criminal act. I've never implied such a thing

7. I don’t see Trump focusing on economic recovery I see him as focusing on campaign 2020. As I’ve said before the best thing for the economy would have been to take the shelter seriously and get the virus under Control as quickly as possible so we could safely open up again. Trump did not do that.

8. I don’t blame you for sticking up for Trump. I welcome the debate. But when you shovel blame at everybody else and can’t acknowledge very valid areas of concern and documented lies and missteps then you become disingenuous.

9. I can only speak for myself but on Election Day I posted on this board to Dems encouraging them to give Trump a chance to lead and set an example of how to be a good minority party. They have failed miserable at that. Yes Trump has been attacked like no other. But that’s not because he is Republican it is because of who he is. Highly combative, blatantly dishonest, and Extremely offensive. It is why I don’t find him suitable for the office he holds. No president should be as hated or controversial as he is.

10. let’s not go down this rabbit hole right now

11. Biden is def not the most exciting candidate . He is old boring and past his prime. But he is leaps and bounds better than captain drama and will be a welcomed change.

Enjoyed the debate as well. Thanks for actually engaging and addressing the topic instead of devolving into the trolling insults. You made some good points that gave me better perspective which is what I look for on this site.

Look forward to the next one.
I wasn't going to reply, but then started thinking....
1. The correct answer is that China is solely responsible for the COVID-19 pandemic, period. Whether the virus was weaponized, or deliberately released is TBD.
2. Yes Trump deserves criticism from time to time, but the MSM coverage is 95% negative as compared to 75% positive for Obama. FXN was the most fair at about 50% positive and negative, according to a Harvard study. Negative publicity and fake news really irks Trump.
3. Not blaming Cuomo for deaths, but just pointing out that governors have many hidden responsibilities, like stockpiling ventilators and PPE. Many hospital workers died helping others while wearing homemade PPE. Another issue is that most factories were moved to China over the last 30-years, so its tough to make things in a hurry, like PPE or ventilators. Who moved all those factories to China?
4. The US did take the shutdown seriously, then the question became, reopen or the $25T economy crashes. There is no getting the virus under control when people are non-complaint. The virus will always be here, just like the flu, so there is no "safely". Your Monday morning quarterbacking is just partisan sniping without proof.
5. Biden is too old, too boring, and too connected. His getting Hunter an $83,000 a month job at Burisma and a cool $1,500,000,000 to invest from China should sound alarms. If Barr and Durham don't start issuing indictments soon the crooks might get away.
Children have died from this virus. Do they usually? No. Do they die the way adults do? No, but that’s not the point. They are not immune. They get sick and infected. They generally have lighter or no symptoms, but after age 10, the best research we have at this point tells us they are just as likely to spread coronavirus as anyone else. And he knows it. he was told that. It is the best reckoning by his own task force
The fact that kids carry and spread it needs to be a knowledge and Trump plays dumb. Kids may not have a high rate of death or bad symptoms but their parents grandparents and teachers all get exposed to the same germs and that seems to be ignored
Are you saying that we should all hide in our basements like Joe Biden? Until when? The virus is not going away.
1. Do you believe that schools should re-open, with mitigation measures, Y/N?
2. If not now, when should the schools reopen, assuming that the vaccines are 6-months out, and will only be 50% effective?
3. What should parents do if they both need to go to work now?
I’m saying we should all act safe and responsible. A little advice... when you parrot the “Biden basement” talking point it makes you sound like a puppet. If you want your opinions treated with respect then stop playing those games. You do realize that the Basement attack was created by Trump to make fun of and demean Biden for actually listening to Trumps safety guidelines. Get the irony? You said earlier that this thing spread because people gathered irresponsibly and trump lead them to water. This a perfect example of Biden actually acting responsibly (leading to water) and Trump promoting the opposite. Get it?

Per your questions:

1. school should open if conditions are in place for a safe and controlled environment. Plans should be in place on how it will be handled if there is an outbreak. The Feds should be helping with recommendations and funding to help create clear standards for this and the local districts should make the final decisions on how to proceed.

3. If parents need to go to work but schools are not open then the government should help those in need with either child care or unemployment support
Not doing interviews is not irony, its not doing interviews because you know what would happen. How can you run for president and not answer questions about your proposed agenda???
1. Trump does real press conferences and interviews multiple times a week, the recent Axios interview is a good example of taking a hostile interview, giving dems talking points to nitpick. We have a very different take on Biden's laying low. If he did a few real press conferences or hostile interviews I think we both know that he would have a tough time. I'm looking forward to the mano-a-mano debates, only (55) days to go to the 1st debate.

3. There is no "safe and controlled environment" in schools. Best idea I heard was that about 15 kids comprise a "pod". They do everything together. If one kid tests positive, that pod quarantines instead of the entire school. I agree that even though education is primarily a state responsibility, the DOE should provide some guidance and funding, we'll see what Mitch and Nancy come up with.
 

kyzr

Platinum Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2009
Messages
15,581
Reaction score
6,205
Points
350
Location
The AL part of PA
Kzr said football and school are wanted. Yes they are. But right now neither should be happening. Responsible adults know this
So you oppose opening schools? Until when? Because the virus is not going away, ever. Its the new normal, so get used to it.
 
OP
Slade3200

Slade3200

Platinum Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2016
Messages
33,816
Reaction score
3,962
Points
1,140
Can any Trump supporter honestly say they are proud of how Trump answered questions in this interview? He either dodged, spun, or outright lied in almost every statement.

If Trump is doing so well then why can’t he Just honestly address these topics?!

please don’t give your opinion if you haven’t watched the interview. I’m not interested in ignorant talking points.

You're not going to get someone who has sold their soul to this guy to back out now.

He has no shame, they have no shame.
Sad but true... I am so curious about how his supporters feel when they watch an interview like this where he is either clearly lying for political purposes or insanely ignorant to the realities to the situation. I guess don’t expect them to honestly express their feelings on this board but bit maybe there is an honest soul out there willing to share their perspective.

I have a couple friends who were Trump
Supporters ready to vote for him this November that are now disgusted by him by the way he has handled this health crisis.
Yet, i bet they still vote for him. So few will admit they made such a yuge mistake!
Damn right we're voting for Trump again. I saw the entire interview. The interviewer just couldn't get past the democrat talking points. I can give you one example:
The US has so many infected because we test much more than other countries. That is a fact, yet the democrats don't grasp it. Here is the explanation:
1. Other countries do not test until the person enters the hospital with symptoms.
Take India for example, 20m tests and 15,000 tests/1m people, 1.9m cases found.
The US did 61m tests, and 186,000 tests/1m people, 4.9m cases found.
So it is not surprising that in the US we found many more cases (3x) by testing 10x more people per million.
In India there are many more "asymptomatic" or "mildly symptomatic" cases undetected, that would show positive in the US.

2. Trump's handling of the pandemic is totally dependent on citizens mitigating risk. If people party and don't social distance, and have covid parties, then the infection spreads. If people act responsibly, and wear masks, the pandemic can be reduced, see the attached chart. Trump can only lead the horses to water, he can't make them drink.
View attachment 371221
You actually make two good points, I'm glad you chimed in. More testing is going to Statistically show more cases that is true. It it also gives opportunity to slow the spread as identifying cases leads to quarantine, early treatment and contact tracing which ultimately leads to less cases over time. The interviewer, who is very middle of the road and spends a lot of time on Fox, was asking about the death rate in relation to population with really is a more relevant stat. Trump, first failed to explain how we are "over testing" by referencing some unnamed books and manuals, and then he said the only death stats that we can look at are deaths per cases... This makes no sense. Be honest... It really makes no sense.

2. I totally agree about mitigating risk and this is where I think Trump has made his biggest misstep of leadership. He isn't leading horses to water, he is leading them to slaughter. He has been downplaying this virus from the beginning. Instead of being honest about the seriousness of the situation he has tried to dismiss it and score political points. He hasn't promoted masks or social distancing. He has held the largest group event since the shutdown with the Tulsa rally and then Tulsa spiked in cases a few weeks later. Thats crazy. It took him 3 months to finally say people should wear a mask. He had a few measured and read statements about and then when right back to his "Open it all up" attitude. That is just crazy and irresponsible. Do you not see it? Did you not see how he spun and lied through out that entire interview?
1. I watch FXN all day and don't recall ever seeing the Brit interviewer. He's from Axios. The death rate needs to be adjusted over time for many factors. First Cuomo sent covid patients to nursing homes and killed off about 35,000. So we need to adjust for that. Then we are getting much better treatments now, convalescent plasma, Remdesavire, etc. So I agree with Trump that looking at the death reduction over time is critical going forward. The doctors are getting much better at treatments. So looking at old death rates is meaningless. I also prefer deaths/cases/month to see the true trend. Be honest, that makes sense for trending curves.

2. We disagree. Trump has multiple responsibilities, he needs to address COVID-19 and keep the US economy up and running. I agree with Trump. He is doing a much better job with the pandemic and the economy than Biden could do, and you know it. Biden can't find his ass with both hands.
you actually did respond to my reply and I was the on that missed it. My bad.

1. Dana Parino is a big fan of swan so he appears on her show often and he is a regular on Special report with Bret Bair.
You didn’t address my point about death rate per population. That is really the most relevant stat to see how the virus has effected a country. The stat the Trump tours is deaths per cases which is dependent on the number of tests/cases identified. Since we test more than most countries then of course that number is going to be low. You see that right?

2. how can you think Trump is guiding the public in a responsible way? You admit that the virus is spread by people gathering and not social distancing. We see example after example of Trump promoting this type of behavior and belittling the recommended guidelines of cautionary actions that his own task force is coming out with.
1. Apology accepted, thanks. I miss stuff on occasion too. I like that you debate ideas and facts instead of slinging crap in a TDS food fight. This response is copied from my post #15. So the answer is, it depends if you want better numbers or worse numbers. I made a good living proving answers mathematically that the bosses want.
"The death rate needs to be adjusted over time for many factors. First Cuomo sent covid patients to nursing homes and killed off about 35,000. So we need to adjust for that. Then we are getting much better treatments now, convalescent plasma, Remdesavire, etc. So I agree with Trump that looking at the death reduction over time is critical going forward. The doctors are getting much better at treatments. So looking at old death rates is meaningless. I also prefer deaths/cases/month to see the true trend. Be honest, that makes sense for trending curves."
So look at each case:
a. Deaths per population:
The downside of this is that it doesn't capture trends, it is a much slower moving number. For example, when NY & NJ killed off their nursing home population, those "preventable" deaths stay in the number of "dead/population". Making the ratio look worse than it is. Not a good tool for tracking progress vs the virus.

b. Deaths per cases:
Its important to plot deaths/cases/month to show trends. Are we gaining or is the virus gaining? Look at the high deaths in NY & NJ at the start. Those deaths are "outliers" today. The stat that is most important is "are we winning or is the virus winning?"
I agree that using "deaths/cases/month" is a much more current statistic for how the nation is doing vs the pandemic. As treatments improve, death rates drop. Convalescent plasma and Remdesivir are game changers, as even more effective therapies are approved, the deaths/case will continue to drop. Agree that more testing means more cases and a lower ratio. But the "deaths/cases" ratio on a "per month" basis is the most accurate way to capture how we are doing vs the virus over time.

2. Trump always advises people to mitigate. He also needs the economy to reopen. Its a tough job when people keep partying. When the population "complies" we will beat COVID-19. Until then its not Trump's fault. It's China's fault.
I'm an engineer so I lean into the analytical and not the puff puff opinion stuff. So I always appreciate a substantive debate.

1. I understand what you are saying about the death/case stats. They are important when tracking trends within a country and working to mitigate the spread. The problem is, Trump is using those stats to brag about how great we are compared to other countries. Once you go there you aren't comparing like items. The only way to properly compare the effects of the virus in our country vs other countries is to look at deaths vs population and in that stat we are failing. The NY NJ nursing home accusation is a much larger debate which I would challenge your premise but lets not go there right now.

2. I get that Trump wants the economy to open, but when can you point to him encouraging people to take this seriously and commit to safe practices. Go back as far as you want, to the beginning of the shut down... People needed and still need to take this thing seriously and Trump has been downplaying it the whole time and literally encouraging the types of behavior that lead to more spread. You said "leading a horse to water" What exactly has Trump done to lead the horses to water and encourage the type of behavior that slows the spread? Can you point to some examples?
I'm also a PE. So we both know our numbers.

1. I disagree that the "only way to properly compare the effects of the virus" vs other countries is deaths/pop. As you said initially, the deaths/case stat tracks how the US is doing over time as the medications improve. My argument against comparing countries is that we have no way of knowing if their numbers are accurate. So comparing countries is still apples to oranges, no matter what "squishy" numbers you compare.

2. I can recall Pence, Birx, and Fauci recommending washing hands, distancing, masks. Then I recall "covid parties", bars open, crowded beaches, and BLM protests, etc. Until the population complies with guidance the virus will spread.


1. I've heard that response, that you can't trust the other countries numbers. If thats what you are going with then there is nothing more to discuss. I can't prove the numbers are accurate and you can't prove they are false so the debate in then over. But if thats the case then we should both be in agreement that the comparisons that Trump is touting when he said we are doing better than the world with death rate is BS, right?

2. I recall Pence, Fauci, and Birx making those recommendations too. And then Trump tweeting and taking actions that promoted the opposite. Can you find any examples of TRUMP leading the horses to water? Because I have dozens showing him doing the opposite.
1. Absolutely! Total BS. Trump brags on the US and his record, and the Trump haters try to use false comparisons to make him look bad. Its all partisan bullshit using squishy numbers. The only true numbers as far as I can tell are deaths/case/month here in the US to see if the medical research is gaining on covid. If we get a "magic bullet" therapy we win, if we don't we live with covid. Even vaccines are not 100% effective, like the flu vaccine, we get 40,000 flu deaths a year, and don't bat an eye.

2. Trump has two problems, keeping covid patients alive, and keeping the US economy alive. The problems are interrelated. Trump is a businessman not a medical professional, so he tends to promote saving the economy and hopes that the task force can work the pandemic medically. The doctors only care about patients and not the economy, they apparently think money grows on trees. The US can't keep printing money or we lose our economy. So I agree with you that Trump's focus has been too much on the economy and not enough on mitigation, but we can't shutdown again, the schools need to open, and we need to either defeat covid or learn to live with it.
Trump should start and end every news conference with a reminder about mitigation measures, and to work safely.
I think we've reached agreement on point #1. Way to go!

As for point #2... We are close, except for I think my point still stands about Trumps irresponsible handling and messaging of this pandemic. Yes he is a business man and not a medical professional, he assigned a task force to address COVID, yet he belittles and contradicts the task force professionals on a regular basis. The fastest way to reopen the economy, which we agree is Trumps goal, is to get the virus under control. If going back to March Trump would have promoted mask wearing and social distancing and treated this virus as the serious threat that it is I truly believe we would be in a much better spot right now. All Trump did was play politics though. Pretend like it was no big deal, try to brag and claim wins about everything, deflect responsibly to the states, and push to reopen, which many governors listened too and now we are seeing their states as the hotbeds for resurgence. There is a direct correlation. Trump did and is still doing the exact opposite of leading horses to water when it comes to addressing the pandemic. I know you agree since you haven't provided any examples of Trump promoting mitigating behavior. The few statements he has read about masks and distancing he contradicts usually in the next breath. We all know where he stands and in my opinion it is going to be his undoing.
Its a fine line between "irresponsible messaging" and "skewed or incomplete messaging" based on conflicting and incorrect information. Trump apparently wanted to avoid a panic and everyone heading for the basement in terror. The initial info out of China and the WHO was conflicting and mostly wrong. "There was no human to human transmission"?? WTF? The CDC couldn't do adequate testing early on, etc. Should Trump shutdown air travel from China? Yes, he shut it down, a great decision. The democrats went nuts calling him xenophobic and racist. Then Nancy promotes going out to Chinatown?!
Hindsight being 20/20, I agree Trump did an okay job, probably way better than any PC democrat could have done handling the pandemic. Trump kept the "curve" flatter and within the medical system capacity by stopping flights from China so early. Could Trump have been more serious promoting masks, distancing, and avoiding crowds? Yes, sure, early on. But then there was a battle to reopen the economy or not. Many governors were keeping their states locked-down, and Trump wanted to avoid too many bankruptcies. He did not want to give the governors an excuse to stay shutdown. Right now about 50% of US restaurants are closed permanently. So Trump probably wanted to promote "normalcy" to save jobs and businesses, instead of the "new normal", that being normal but with masks and distancing.
I know this pandemic is China's fault, no one else's.
You sound like an intelligent person so I'm confused on how you don't see the correlation between Trumps messaging and the spread of the virus. It is very simple in my mind. There was a period of a few months April and May when we needed to take this shut down seriously. Wear masks and social distance. Instead of encouraging that kind of behavior he played tough guy talking about going to Easter mass and refusing to wear a mask or promote mask wearing. He belittled the seriousness of the virus, made fun of people who were taking it seriously, and threw seeds of doubt in everything and everyone that urged caution. That was the opportunity to get this thing under control. Instead he kept pushing for reopening and he got what he wanted in some states. Georgia was the first to move and Florida next... Look what happened! Is it really a mystery why the cases spiked in those states. Now 1000s a day are dying and Florida is the worlds hotbed. All helped by political games that Trump was playing. You have to see that. Safety and reopening did not need to fight each other, we could have worked together on this thing but Trump is not a person capable of that kind of unification which is why in my opinion he belongs no where near the White House.
Trump haters have one thing in common, TDS. Its not about truth or facts, its about blaming Trump for everything wrong, his fault or not. We shutdown the entire country Birx and Fauci were on TV always telling folks how to mitigate the virus. Trump and Pence were very busy saving NY & NJ from disaster, even the democrat governors said that the Trump team did great. Blaming Trump for the bad behaviors of people is flat wrong. Look at the crowded beaches, the bars, the protests, "covid parties", sending the infected back to nursing homes, and all the other bad behaviors. They are not Trump's fault. If anyone gets covid after all the warnings and guidance it's probably their own damn fault, not Trumps. Covid is not going away, even with a vaccine. Look at the flu, 40,000 die each year even with vaccines, and no one bats an eye. So stop the partisan accusations that you would never be able to prove in court. If anyone needs to be blamed for the pandemic, its China.
Trumps is also doing his best to blame it on China every time he talks about it. You like him are doing pretty good at deflecting as much blame as you can. It’s curious how easy it is for you blame everybody including the kitchen sink yet Trump comes out as the great leader who did everything he could. I’ve provided example after example of how he acted irresponsibly and you just ignore And deflect. I can tell you’re a smart guy so I know you get it. I can only assume that your ego just won’t let you admit it. So at this point I’ll just drop it... I don’t see this conversation going anywhere Especially after you turned down the TDS road.

nice try, we got close
One more cycle please...then we can agree to disagree....
1. Whose fault is the pandemic, Trump's or China's?
2. Deflecting blame is being honest if no blame is due. Trump is always being attacked for something by the MSM.
3. There are many people involved in the pandemic outcome, Trump, Congress, governors, employers, and each individual.
4. Does Cuomo get any "blame" for sending covid patients back to nursing homes?
5. Who gets the "blame" for meat packing plant outbreaks?
6. Who gets the blame for "covid parties", crowded beaches, crowded bars, and crowded protests?
7. If focusing on the economic recovery more than the virus is "acting irresponsibly" we disagree. Both need attention. Yet you always ignore the economic recovery. Before the pandemic hit the US was doing as well as I can ever remember, it was "prosperity".
8. Its not "ego" as much as "fairness". As much as Trump has been unfairly attacked maybe we do tend to "circle the wagons"
9. If you are a democrat you want Biden to win, so you throw rocks at Trump, I get that, its an election year, fine. But what "cankles" me is the way Trump hatred spewed from the MSM and democrats from his 1st day in office. We never treated any democrat president like that, ever.
10. Getting it all out on the table....
Trump's 1st term was a miracle in itself, the biggest upset in US election history. Hillary and the DNC actually colluded with and paid Russians for "dirt" on Trump, the "Steele Dossier". Obama used the power of the DOJ, FBI, CIA and other Federal agencies to illegally spy on and setup Trump for failure. Operations Crossfire Hurricane and Razor, the Mueller Investigation, Russian Collusion Hoax, the MSM's constant 95% negative coverage and "fake news", Never-Trump Republicans, the Lincoln Project, globalists of every stripe, the entrenched Deep State who all oppose Trump's policies, the planted leakers and whistle-blowers, and the RINOs who'd rather shill for K-Street than work for main street. Then add to all of that the outright hatred shown by the House democrats toward Trump, to the point of "non-crime" Impeachment Articles.
Now democrats are celebrating Deutsche Bank's release of Trump's financial records to NY prosecutors in hopes of nailing Trump with a crime, well good luck with that.
11. We'll see who wins in November, good luck with Joe Biden, hope he shows up for the debates.

p.s. enjoyed the discussion, this is what all forum discussions should be like. I'm sure we'll have more.
Jesus... you had to make 11 points?? Ok fine, here we go.

1. both Trump and China were wildly irresponsible and own fault for needless spread

2. Yes Trumpnis always blames by the MSM. Sometimes it is overblown and most of the time it is valid criticism. The point I’ve brought up are very valid critism.

3. True many people are involved. Trump is president he is going to get the largest spotlight

4. Cuomo handled the pandemic in a very open, honest, and scientific way. Hospitals were over crowding and he used needing homes that had the medical infrastructure to care for patients. The attacks on him are based on partisan spin and not reality. that said... I’m sure there are several things that he could have done better.

5 and 6. As you said blame is shared between leadership, business owners and individuals. Gotta look at case by case. It’s a virus so spread is inevitable so it every case can be link to a criminal act. I've never implied such a thing

7. I don’t see Trump focusing on economic recovery I see him as focusing on campaign 2020. As I’ve said before the best thing for the economy would have been to take the shelter seriously and get the virus under Control as quickly as possible so we could safely open up again. Trump did not do that.

8. I don’t blame you for sticking up for Trump. I welcome the debate. But when you shovel blame at everybody else and can’t acknowledge very valid areas of concern and documented lies and missteps then you become disingenuous.

9. I can only speak for myself but on Election Day I posted on this board to Dems encouraging them to give Trump a chance to lead and set an example of how to be a good minority party. They have failed miserable at that. Yes Trump has been attacked like no other. But that’s not because he is Republican it is because of who he is. Highly combative, blatantly dishonest, and Extremely offensive. It is why I don’t find him suitable for the office he holds. No president should be as hated or controversial as he is.

10. let’s not go down this rabbit hole right now

11. Biden is def not the most exciting candidate . He is old boring and past his prime. But he is leaps and bounds better than captain drama and will be a welcomed change.

Enjoyed the debate as well. Thanks for actually engaging and addressing the topic instead of devolving into the trolling insults. You made some good points that gave me better perspective which is what I look for on this site.

Look forward to the next one.
I wasn't going to reply, but then started thinking....
1. The correct answer is that China is solely responsible for the COVID-19 pandemic, period. Whether the virus was weaponized, or deliberately released is TBD.
2. Yes Trump deserves criticism from time to time, but the MSM coverage is 95% negative as compared to 75% positive for Obama. FXN was the most fair at about 50% positive and negative, according to a Harvard study. Negative publicity and fake news really irks Trump.
3. Not blaming Cuomo for deaths, but just pointing out that governors have many hidden responsibilities, like stockpiling ventilators and PPE. Many hospital workers died helping others while wearing homemade PPE. Another issue is that most factories were moved to China over the last 30-years, so its tough to make things in a hurry, like PPE or ventilators. Who moved all those factories to China?
4. The US did take the shutdown seriously, then the question became, reopen or the $25T economy crashes. There is no getting the virus under control when people are non-complaint. The virus will always be here, just like the flu, so there is no "safely". Your Monday morning quarterbacking is just partisan sniping without proof.
5. Biden is too old, too boring, and too connected. His getting Hunter an $83,000 a month job at Burisma and a cool $1,500,000,000 to invest from China should sound alarms. If Barr and Durham don't start issuing indictments soon the crooks might get away.
Children have died from this virus. Do they usually? No. Do they die the way adults do? No, but that’s not the point. They are not immune. They get sick and infected. They generally have lighter or no symptoms, but after age 10, the best research we have at this point tells us they are just as likely to spread coronavirus as anyone else. And he knows it. he was told that. It is the best reckoning by his own task force
The fact that kids carry and spread it needs to be a knowledge and Trump plays dumb. Kids may not have a high rate of death or bad symptoms but their parents grandparents and teachers all get exposed to the same germs and that seems to be ignored
Are you saying that we should all hide in our basements like Joe Biden? Until when? The virus is not going away.
1. Do you believe that schools should re-open, with mitigation measures, Y/N?
2. If not now, when should the schools reopen, assuming that the vaccines are 6-months out, and will only be 50% effective?
3. What should parents do if they both need to go to work now?
I’m saying we should all act safe and responsible. A little advice... when you parrot the “Biden basement” talking point it makes you sound like a puppet. If you want your opinions treated with respect then stop playing those games. You do realize that the Basement attack was created by Trump to make fun of and demean Biden for actually listening to Trumps safety guidelines. Get the irony? You said earlier that this thing spread because people gathered irresponsibly and trump lead them to water. This a perfect example of Biden actually acting responsibly (leading to water) and Trump promoting the opposite. Get it?

Per your questions:

1. school should open if conditions are in place for a safe and controlled environment. Plans should be in place on how it will be handled if there is an outbreak. The Feds should be helping with recommendations and funding to help create clear standards for this and the local districts should make the final decisions on how to proceed.

3. If parents need to go to work but schools are not open then the government should help those in need with either child care or unemployment support
Not doing interviews is not irony, its not doing interviews because you know what would happen. How can you run for president and not answer questions about your proposed agenda???
1. Trump does real press conferences and interviews multiple times a week, the recent Axios interview is a good example of taking a hostile interview, giving dems talking points to nitpick. We have a very different take on Biden's laying low. If he did a few real press conferences or hostile interviews I think we both know that he would have a tough time. I'm looking forward to the mano-a-mano debates, only (55) days to go to the 1st debate.

3. There is no "safe and controlled environment" in schools. Best idea I heard was that about 15 kids comprise a "pod". They do everything together. If one kid tests positive, that pod quarantines instead of the entire school. I agree that even though education is primarily a state responsibility, the DOE should provide some guidance and funding, we'll see what Mitch and Nancy come up with.
1. That’s all politics and strategy. You’re not voting for Biden so you just want him questioned so you can get dirt to use against him. His campaign likes the position he is in so they are laying low And letting Trump take the attention which they see as helpful to Biden. I don’t think there are many people out there who’s really still on the fence for who they are voting for. We know both men and the stark differences. This campaign is going to be about rallying turn out.

3. agreed. I Also like the POD idea
 

initforme

Gold Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2011
Messages
13,680
Reaction score
1,516
Points
265
Well who wants to go in there and get sick? Indoor crowds are the worst possible scenario. It makes zero sense to endanger others.
 

New Topics

Most reactions - Past 7 days

Forum List