Trump’s Appeal: What Psychology Tells Us

[Sixties Fan]

Proof is irrelevant.


Trump and I beleive it, thus when we say that some "very fine people" were there, on "both sides", we are NOT talking about the neo nazis, but on the NOT neo nazis who still support the statues, like your source, Robert Tracinski.


We are either right, or we are wrong, either way, we are NOT saying that neo-nazis are "very fine people".


Thus, the point you made that Trump is sympathetic to them, is based on your ASSUMPTION that he agrees with you on who was there, when he has made it clear, repeatedly and explicitly, that he does NOT.


That is, I think, Confirmation Bias on your part.

"That is, I think, Confirmation Bias on your part."


Here is a day by day, an hour by hour account of what happened:

What happened at Charlottesville: Looking back on the anniversary

What happened at Charlottesville: Looking back on the anniversary of the deadly rally

www.ajc.com

Why the Charlottesville Marchers Were Obsessed With Jews

Anti-Semitic logic fueled the violence over the weekend, no matter what the president says.

www.theatlantic.com

What to know about the violent Charlottesville protests and anniversary rallies

The violent clashes happened on Aug. 12, 2017.

abcnews.go.com

 

[Correll]

"That is, I think, Confirmation Bias on your part."


Here is a day by day, an hour by hour account of what happened:

What happened at Charlottesville: Looking back on the anniversary

What happened at Charlottesville: Looking back on the anniversary of the deadly rally

www.ajc.com

Why the Charlottesville Marchers Were Obsessed With Jews

Anti-Semitic logic fueled the violence over the weekend, no matter what the president says.

www.theatlantic.com

What to know about the violent Charlottesville protests and anniversary rallies

The violent clashes happened on Aug. 12, 2017.

abcnews.go.com

What happens if you prove me wrong, about who was there?

 

[Sixties Fan]

What happens if you prove me wrong, about who was there?

Start your own thread about it. There were many reporters there. You are not going to be able to contradict any and all who were there because you want to go by what Trump said.

Extra ! Extra ! Trump WAS NOT there.

 

[Correll]

Start your own thread about it. There were many reporters there. You are not going to be able to contradict any and all who were there because you want to go by what Trump said.

Extra ! Extra ! Trump WAS NOT there.

That was an odd non answer.


Here is deal. You started this thread to talk about Psychology in politics, specifically with Trump supporters.

But, psychology is the study of the human mind. It is not limited to one side. What you MEANT was that the psychology of Trump supporters was DYSFUNCTIONAL.


But claiming that, opens you up to comparisons.


The "Very Fine People Meme" is a fine example of your side being completely irrational.


Your group, your TRIBE, in this demonstrates your deep NEED to beleive something that is clearly and easily seen to be not true, ie that Trump said that neo-nazis are "very fine people".


Trump and I both believe that some of the people there, were NOT neo-nazis and supported the historical statues and were "very fine people".


You insist that none of that group of people were there at that time.


You refuse to admit that whether or not they were there, they were who Trump was referring to. When you make the argument that they were not there, thus Trump was ACCIDENTALLY referring to neo-nazis, and thus, your need to beleive the OTHER to be evul, is thus somehow sort of vindicated.


The most you can get, with this line of argument, if you are rational, is to get me and/or Trump to admit that we are bad at guessing who is in a crowd.

You cannot show that Trump is a neo-nazis sympathizer here, becuase he clearly and repeatedly condemned them, and it is only EXTREME confirmatino bias, to the point of DELUSION, that keeps you from seeing this.

 

[Sixties Fan]

[Trump supporters have either heard or read about this, but nothing changes their loyalty to him ]


John Kelly may not have joined the elite club of former White House chiefs of staff yet, but this week he joined another exclusive group: Donald Trump’s close confidantes who reportedly insult him behind his back.

Trump’s known for his insults—on Twitter alone, the president had insulted 446 people, places, and things as of April 30—but he gets his share, too. Not just from political adversaries, but from employees, friends, and allies, if news reports detailing discontent in Trump’s inner circle are to be believed. Quartz took a look at the most prominent examples:

• “A supreme sexist.”—Barbara Res, former executive vice-president of Trump Organization, who also said “he thinks he’s God.”

(full article online)

"Moron." "Idiot." "Dope." All the ways Trump's closest confidants insulted his intelligence

The full list of reported remarks from Trump's ex-secretary of state, chief of staff, national security advisor, and others.

qz.com

 

[Sixties Fan]

[ People wanted to work for Trump, until they didn't ]


“Fear: Trump in the White House,” by Bob Woodward, is the latest book to detail chaos in the president’s immediate orbit. Excerpts were published Tuesday and immediately brought to mind several disparaging comments that Trump’s staff is reported to have made about the commander in chief:

• Defense Secretary Jim Mattis said Trump had the understanding of “a fifth- or sixth-grader,” according to accounts of Woodward’s book that were published by The Washington Post. The comments came after a National Security Council meeting on Jan. 19 in which Trump questioned why the government was using resources to maintain a U.S. military presence on the Korean Peninsula. Mattis told Trump that presence was necessary “in order to prevent World War III.”

• White House chief of staff John Kelly called Trump “an idiot” and said he thought the president was “unhinged,” The Post also reported.NBC News first reported in May that Kelly had referred to the president as an idiot multiple times, in addition to making several remarks “insulting the president’s intelligence and casting himself as the savior of the country.” Kelly has denied that he ever called Trump an idiot.



• Omarosa Manigault Newman, who was the highest-ranking African-American staffer in the West Wing, claimed in a book published earlier this summer that Trump is a “racist, misogynist and bigot.” In her book, “Unhinged,” Manigault Newman said she witnessed Trump use racial epithets while describing presidential counselor Kellyanne Conway’s husband, George Conway, who is half Filipino.


• Earlier this year, Michael Wolff detailed in his book “Fire and Fury” that a number of individuals in the Trump administration insulted the president’s intelligence. Both Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin and former chief of staff Reince Priebus called Trump an “idiot,” Wolff wrote. Former economic adviser Gary Cohn said Trump was “dumb as shit,” and former national security adviser H.R. McMaster said the president was a “dope,” according to the book.

• Former White House chief strategist Steve Bannon said in November 2017 that Trump was “like an 11-year-old child,” according toVanity Fair. He also said that Trump had “lost his step.” Bannon had left the White House in August 2017.

• Former Secretary of State Rex Tillerson in July 2017 called Trump a “moron,”NBC News reported. The comments came after Tillerson had a meeting at the Pentagon with members of the White House national security team and Cabinet officials.

• At a dinner in July 2017, McMaster mocked Trump, also calling him an “idiot,”BuzzFeed News reported. At the dinner, which was with Oracle CEO Safra Catz, McMaster also said Trump was a “dope” with the intelligence of a “kindergartner,” according to that report.

(full article online)

‘Idiot,’ ‘Dope,’ ‘Moron’: How Trump’s aides have insulted the boss

“Fear: Trump in the White House,” by Bob Woodward, is the latest book to detail chaos in the president’s immediate orbit.

www.politico.com

 

[Correll]

[Trump supporters have either heard or read about this, but nothing changes their loyalty to him ]


John Kelly may not have joined the elite club of former White House chiefs of staff yet, but this week he joined another exclusive group: Donald Trump’s close confidantes who reportedly insult him behind his back.
.....

In a thread supposedly about psychology, you make a point that Trump supporters don't care that some people don't like him?


This says nothing about psychology. Or at least not about OUR psychology.


YOU are reduced to just spamming negative sound bites, to support your need to put down the OTHER.

 

[Correll]

[ People wanted to work for Trump, until they didn't ]


“Fear: Trump in the White House,” by Bob Woodward, is the latest book to detail chaos in the president’s immediate orbit. Excerpts were published Tuesday and immediately brought to mind several disparaging comments that Trump’s staff is reported to have made about the commander in chief:

• Defense Secretary Jim Mattis said Trump had the understanding of “a fifth- or sixth-grader,” according to accounts of Woodward’s book that were published by The Washington Post. The comments came after a National Security Council meeting on Jan. 19 in which Trump questioned why the government was using resources to maintain a U.S. military presence on the Korean Peninsula. Mattis told Trump that presence was necessary “in order to prevent World War III.”

• White House chief of staff John Kelly called Trump “an idiot” and said he thought the president was “unhinged,” The Post also reported.NBC News first reported in May that Kelly had referred to the president as an idiot multiple times, in addition to making several remarks “insulting the president’s intelligence and casting himself as the savior of the country.” Kelly has denied that he ever called Trump an idiot.



• Omarosa Manigault Newman, who was the highest-ranking African-American staffer in the West Wing, claimed in a book published earlier this summer that Trump is a “racist, misogynist and bigot.” In her book, “Unhinged,” Manigault Newman said she witnessed Trump use racial epithets while describing presidential counselor Kellyanne Conway’s husband, George Conway, who is half Filipino.


• Earlier this year, Michael Wolff detailed in his book “Fire and Fury” that a number of individuals in the Trump administration insulted the president’s intelligence. Both Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin and former chief of staff Reince Priebus called Trump an “idiot,” Wolff wrote. Former economic adviser Gary Cohn said Trump was “dumb as shit,” and former national security adviser H.R. McMaster said the president was a “dope,” according to the book.

• Former White House chief strategist Steve Bannon said in November 2017 that Trump was “like an 11-year-old child,” according toVanity Fair. He also said that Trump had “lost his step.” Bannon had left the White House in August 2017.

• Former Secretary of State Rex Tillerson in July 2017 called Trump a “moron,”NBC News reported. The comments came after Tillerson had a meeting at the Pentagon with members of the White House national security team and Cabinet officials.

• At a dinner in July 2017, McMaster mocked Trump, also calling him an “idiot,”BuzzFeed News reported. At the dinner, which was with Oracle CEO Safra Catz, McMaster also said Trump was a “dope” with the intelligence of a “kindergartner,” according to that report.

(full article online)

‘Idiot,’ ‘Dope,’ ‘Moron’: How Trump’s aides have insulted the boss

“Fear: Trump in the White House,” by Bob Woodward, is the latest book to detail chaos in the president’s immediate orbit.

www.politico.com

I'm tempted to report you for derailing your own thread.


Sixties. This is where you need to look at yourself and see that you have MORE of the Tribe thinking than those you are attacking.


Ask yourself, why you need to believe that your enemies are motivated by bad thinking and ill intent, and can't just disagree with you or have valid but conflicting interests.

 

[Dragonlady]

I don't care about Trump

The country is burning.

The world is burning.

That is what I care about

How about you?

You should care about Trump because men like him are trying to use the pandemic, and the social instability it has engendered, to try to overthrow Western Democracy, and replace it with authoritarian leadership, which is nimbler, and more economically efficient.

Now is their best shot at accomplishing this destruction. Using the chaos and economic displacement, and the fears it has engendered, those wanting "strong leadership", are really the people least able to "fend for themselves". There are indeed great similarities between Hitler's takeover of Germany, and Trump's rise to the Presidency.

But there are also great similarities between the Fall of the Roman Republic, and the current failure of the American Republic, and it both comes down to this: In the early days of the Roman Republic, it was a public duty of the "elites" to govern the City. EVERY male head of the family was expected to serve in the Senate, and to take his turn at Consul - there were always two, one out conquering lands, and one at home to manage the city. It was considered a duty and a responsibility to Rome. But when men began to seek the Consulship for their own selfish reasons, or for the power that came with it, Rome declared him "Emperor" for life, and the Roman Republic ended.

Trump wanted to be President for Life. He refused to accept that the American people voted him out of office. The problem being that there really is no such thing as a "benign dictatorship". And Trump has used race, and fear of the "other" to gin up outrage against non-white immigration. The consequences on the nation have been devastating.

He continues to attack and threaten his "enemies" and he now has a fairly large, violent, and well armed group awaiting his commands, as we saw on January 6th.

 

[Dragonlady]

In a thread supposedly about psychology, you make a point that Trump supporters don't care that some people don't like him?


This says nothing about psychology. Or at least not about OUR psychology.


YOU are reduced to just spamming negative sound bites, to support your need to put down the OTHER.

You put YOURSELVES down every single time you parrot Trump's ridiculous lies. Trump steals from his donors, and you deny it happened.

We've given up on you. You WANT to lied to and conned out of your money. And this started with you the moment he came down the escalator to enthusiastic applause from the actors he hired for the event.

 

[Correll]

You put YOURSELVES down every single time you parrot Trump's ridiculous lies. Trump steals from his donors, and you deny it happened.

We've given up on you. You WANT to lied to and conned out of your money. And this started with you the moment he came down the escalator to enthusiastic applause from the actors he hired for the event.

This thread is supposedly about the psychology of Trump supporters.




We disagree wtih you, politically. You can't just accept that, you have to pretend that that makes us bad people, or crazy or stupid or something.


You are the people with the psycological issues, not US.

 

[Sixties Fan]

 

[Correll]

Are you claiming that Afirmative Action and Diversity, doesn't effect promotion in today's military?

 

[initforme]

Uber wealthy men have no business in the white house. Yet that's all that we elect.

 

[Mac1958]

You put YOURSELVES down every single time you parrot Trump's ridiculous lies. Trump steals from his donors, and you deny it happened.

We've given up on you. You WANT to lied to and conned out of your money. And this started with you the moment he came down the escalator to enthusiastic applause from the actors he hired for the event.

This goes far beyond traditional politics or traditional partisan politics. The connection here is FAR deeper than anything this country has seen before. It's emotional. It's connected to their self esteem. This is a lifestyle. They sleep in the sheets, they wear the clothes, they paint their cars, on and on and on.

That's difficult enough to believe and understand, although I'm sure trying. And the attachment to this person, of all people. This flamboyant, guttural, immoral, childish metrosexual. It just defies logic. How can they fall head over heels for a person whose entire history is that of a con man, a charlatan?

This period will be studied for a long damn time, that's for sure.

 

[Correll]

This goes far beyond traditional politics or traditional partisan politics. The connection here is FAR deeper than anything this country has seen before. It's emotional. It's connected to their self esteem. This is a lifestyle. They sleep in the sheets, they wear the clothes, they paint their cars, on and on and on.

That's difficult enough to believe and understand, although I'm sure trying. And the attachment to this person, of all people. This flamboyant, guttural, immoral, childish metrosexual. It just defies logic. How can they fall head over heels for a person whose entire history is that of a con man, a charlatan?

This period will be studied for a long damn time, that's for sure.

Trump's issues were completely boring, ie jobs and immigration.


Yet the resopnse was hysterical.


From over here it looks like what you people are really upset about, is people like us having any voice at all.


THat makes it a matter of Identity. ANd considering the genocidal talk we so often hear about US "dying out", somewhat even more, perhaps a matter of survival.


Your hate of us, is what made it personal.

 

[Mac1958]

Your hate of us, is what made it personal.

You just can't or won't get it. I don't care enough about you to hate you. I do feel bad for what has been done to you, but there's nothing I can do about it. And, you have allowed it to happen to you.

My annoyance is with the craven politicians and media figures who are enabling all of this, nurturing it, pushing it. You're just a pawn they're using. A part of the obedient, mindless, faceless mob they're leveraging and manipulating for their own benefit.

But I do know how much you love to play the victim. So go ahead. Good to see you admit that that's what this is about. You said it.

 

[Correll]

You just can't or won't get it. I don't care enough about you to hate you. I do feel bad for what has been done to you, but there's nothing I can do about it. And, you have allowed it to happen to you.

My annoyance is with the craven politicians and media figures who are enabling all of this, nurturing it, pushing it. You're just a pawn they're using. A part of the obedient, mindless, faceless mob they're leveraging and manipulating for their own benefit.

But I do know how much you love to play the victim. So go ahead. Good to see you admit that that's what this is about. You said it.

It is disingenuous of you to pretend that that I was blaming you PERSONALLY, for the entire nationwide situation.

I clearly and explicitly used the term, "you people", thus signaling PLURAL use of the term "you".


My point stands. The personal hate and attacks from your side is what has turned political supporting, personal.


That is my point. DO you wish to address it, so as to advance the discussion, or are you goign to stonewall in some way, pretending to misunderstand again, or arguing about what I really said or meant, or perhaps, start a discussion of semantics?

 

[Mac1958]

It is disingenuous of you to pretend that that I was blaming you PERSONALLY, for the entire nationwide situation.

I clearly and explicitly used the term, "you people", thus signaling PLURAL use of the term "you".


My point stands. The personal hate and attacks from your side is what has turned political supporting, personal.


That is my point. DO you wish to address it, so as to advance the discussion, or are you goign to stonewall in some way, pretending to misunderstand again, or arguing about what I really said or meant, or perhaps, start a discussion of semantics?

If there were something I could say that would help or matter, I would say it.

I've already wasted enough bandwidth on you.

 

[Correll]

If there were something I could say that would help or matter, I would say it.

I've already wasted enough bandwidth on you.

You admitting that there is a reason for our actions, and saying so publicly, could matter. It might start a healthy and valuable discussion.

But, you can't do that. You NEED to believe that it is just about us having bad "psychology" or something.


That is what this thread is about. Reinforcing liberal stereotypes and ignorance.


Hopefully SPREADING THEM, to shut down any chance of communication across partisan lines.