Trump to save money by giving our troops cheaper equipment

[ScienceRocks]

He should give them plastic body armor and sell the tanks to china.

 

[RealDave]

Trump is going to have our soldiers fight with the cheaper option.

And you assholes defend it.

My God

It's laughable to think a bunch of liberals giving a shit about our servicemen.

Republicans always fuck over our vets. Democrats have a far far far better record of actually helping them & protecting them.

Reubliss like to talk about our vets then they elect a POW bashing POS.

 

[RealDave]

Really...? This is what you bring......

You really think that we are getting quality for the money we are paying these companies? That the cost over runs, the shoddy work can't be better dealt with than just continuing the same crappy system where they buy politicians, get the government contract then screw us over....you think that you are defending our troops by defending this system...

Please...try again....

Not to mention, that high tech jet fighters are NOT what is required for our current and likely wars. It's not like ISIS is going to contest our air superiority.

Should we insist on a security agreement with the UN, to lower costs?

The UN is our enemy.

no, it isn't. it is just another layer of "government".

No, it is not.

It is an organization dominated by people who want to advance their interests at the cost of ours.

So, what is our intererest in allowing peipe to starve or get slaughtered by tyrants?

 

[RealDave]

Hey Dave! Cheaper does not equal inferior. If you think about it, you would agree. If you don't like PEOTUS, find a legitimate reason to complain.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

So, genius, how do they lower the cost?
1) fewer features?
2) cheaper materials
3) Pay all those working on the roject minimum wage?

I laugfh at you for defending Triump on this. You want to sendf our troops to war with inferior eq

They always have inferior equipment.......Trump might actually be able to fix this.

Oh how fasrt the right jumps down the military's throat to protect their Orange Leader. First the generals are all so stupid that Trump knew more about ISIS than they did, POWs aren't heroes, and now our military fights with junk.

But hey, you are the same ones that said it was alright to send troops into Iraq without proper armor on vehicles & without protective gear for our soldiers.

Let's remember why our military didn't have the equipment. Clinton was handed a strong military and cut spending big time. Then handed Bush a recession and 911.

Actually, dick Cheney slashed our military as Sec of Defense under HW Bush far more than it was cut under Bill Clinton (6 years with Republican congresses).

 

[2aguy]

Trump is going to have our soldiers fight with the cheaper option.

And you assholes defend it.

My God

It's laughable to think a bunch of liberals giving a shit about our servicemen.

Republicans always fuck over our vets. Democrats have a far far far better record of actually helping them & protecting them.

Reubliss like to talk about our vets then they elect a POW bashing POS.

And that is a lie.........anyone who thinks that is either lying intentionally, or is just too stupid to know the truth.

 

[RealDave]

Trump is going to have our soldiers fight with the cheaper option.

And you assholes defend it.

My God

It's laughable to think a bunch of liberals giving a shit about our servicemen.

Republicans always fuck over our vets. Democrats have a far far far better record of actually helping them & protecting them.

Reubliss like to talk about our vets then they elect a POW bashing POS.

And that is a lie.........anyone who thinks that is either lying intentionally, or is just too stupid to know the truth.

Do some research. Become better informed.
Bill's Blocked By Republican's Since President Obama Took Office.

David Gregory, John McCain, and the media aren't covering this story so we have to.

Here's a concise extraction for easy viewing for those who are INTERESTED IN VETERANS ISSUES and need to know which party supports veterans and which party does not.

The rejected Bills are named:

H.R. 466 – Wounded Veteran Job Security Act became H. R. 2875.

H.R. 1168 -- Veterans Retraining Act

H.R. 1171 – Homeless Veterans Reintegration Program Reauthorization

H.R. 1172 -- Requiring List on VA Website of Organizations Providing Scholarships for Veterans

H.R. 1293 -- Disabled Veterans Home Improvement and Structural Alteration Grant Increase Act of 2009

H.R. 1803 -- Veterans Business Center Act

H.R. 2352 – Job Creation Through Entrepreneurship Act

DETAILS OF BILLS REJECTED BY REPUBLICANS:

H.R. 466 – Wounded Veteran Job Security Act – This bill would actually provide job security for veterans who are receiving medical treatment for injuries suffered while fighting in defense of their country. It would prohibit employers from terminating
employees who miss work while receiving treatment for a service-related disability.

H.R. 1168 -- Veterans Retraining Act – This bill would provide for assistance to help veterans who are currently unemployed with their expenses while retraining for the current job market.

H.R. 1171 – Homeless Veterans Reintegration Program Reauthorization – This bill would reauthorize programs in support of homeless veterans, to assist them with job training, counseling, and placement services through the Department of Veterans Affairs through 2014.

H.R. 1172 -- Requiring List on VA Website of Organizations Providing Scholarships for Veterans which does nothing more than direct the Department of Veterans Affairs to include information about scholarships for veterans.

H.R. 1293 -- Disabled Veterans Home Improvement and Structural Alteration Grant Increase Act of 2009 – Here’sanother bill in support of those who have fought for their country, passed by House Democrats and blocked from becoming law by Republicans.

This would increase the amount paid by the VA to disabled veterans for necessary home structural improvements from $4,100 to $6,800 for those who are more than 50% disabled, and from $1,200 to $2,000 who are less than 50%, disabled. This means, if a veteran lost the use of his legs in service of his country, the country will pay for the wheelchair ramp so that he can live at home.

By the way, the last time this ceiling was lifted was in 1992. There isn't even a fiscal reason for being against this bill, as the total cost of this bill, according to CBO estimates, would be a “whopping” $20 million. That's about a quarter (25 cents) per family of four.

H.R. 1803 -- Veterans Business Center Act – This bill would set up a Veterans Business Center program within the Small Business Administration, which would specialize in such programs as grants for service-disabled veterans, help them develop business plans and secure business opportunities. In other words, folks, it would create jobs and offer opportunities those who have fought in defense of our country.

H.R. 2352 – Job Creation Through Entrepreneurship Act – This bill essentially combines a number of other bills that Republicans had blocked in the Senate previously, and adds a few elements. The bill would again establish a Veterans Business Center Program; .... it would establish a Military Entrepreneurs Program; ...

Republicans Vote Against Increased VA Funding
Two billion to rescue our ailing VA system as new vets flood the system? Not necessary. apparently.
From the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 />Washington Post: (with thanks to jmarshall on our comment board)

"Republicans beat back a Democratic attempt to provide almost $2 billion in additional health care funding for veterans. rejecting claims that Department of Veterans Affairs hospitals are in crisis."

VA hospitals are doing just fine. huh? Tell that to Jeremy Lewis or Denver Jones - just two of the thousands of Iraq vets who came home to months of bureaucracy and delayed treatment. But it's not just Iraq vets who think the VA needs some help

 

[Iceweasel]

The rejected Bills are named:

You read all those bills, right? Problem is a LOT of shit gets tacked on to the bills so libs can cry evil when the Republicans refuse to go along with it. with Trump we'll have a better chance of actually getting more done.

 

[eagle1462010]

30 Facts About the F-22 Raptor That Will Blow You Away - Page 19 of 31 - HistoryInOrbit.com

n 2006, the Raptor had proven extremely effective against the outdated F-15s. During training sessions, it maintained a kill ratio of 108:0. This is exponentially more impressive than that of the F-15 against the F-5 during the 1970’s and 1980’s.

“No way an F-35 will ever match a Typhoon fighter jet in aerial combat” Eurofighter test pilot says

Here’s what he wrote to The Aviationist:

No doubt the F-35 will be, when available, a very capable aircraft: its stealth design, extended range, internal carriage of stores and a variety of integrated sensors are definitely the ingredients for success in modern air-to-ground operations.

However, when time comes for air dominance, some other ingredients like thrust to weight ratio and wing loading tend to regulate the sky. And in that nothing comes close to a Typhoon, except an F-22 which has very similar values. The F-35 thrust to weight ratio is way lower and its energy-manoeuvrability diagrams match those of the F/A-18, which is an excellent result for a single engine aircraft loaded with several thousand pounds of fuel and significant armament.

But it also means that starting from medium altitude and above, there is no story with a similarly loaded Typhoon.

 

[eagle1462010]

We have now spent 400 BILLION on the F35............it's purpose is a MULTI ROLL strikes such as the F/A 18.....It is not a AIR SUPERIORITY best aircraft........
It contains new electronic and radar systems.........State of the Art........

But will COST A TRILLION DOLLARS after buying the proposed 2200 aircraft..................That is a LOT OF FUCKING MONEY PEOPLE..............

Making the cost of the F22 seem insignificant.........................BANG for the buck...........and the F35 is NOT PERFORMING AS PRESCRIBED via Lockhead..

 

[danielpalos]

It is weird how this draft dodger is surrounding himself with military men too, reminds one of that other coward, Dick Cheney.

Life in Post Truth America - Does anyone find it ironic that the man who will now travel on your taxes pays none.

He didn't invent the tax rules, he just played by them.

the poor don't invent social policy; they just play by those rules.

I'm well aware of that, and want to change the rules to make it easier for them.

equal protection of the law makes it easier for the poor, on an at-will basis.

Is anyone arguing against equal protection of the law?

yes, the entire right wing always fails to advance a second wave; to help secure the concept of natural rights, whenever it is not specifically about guns.

 

[danielpalos]

Faced with the possible loss of this huge contract, anyone think that the Military pulling out of the F-35 program might be a negotiation tactic to get costs down and production more efficient while saving taxpayers money?

Naw, couldn't be that at all.....

After spending 400 billion on the F35 design development, and production of the first plane for fight testing, the pentagon is not about to scrap the program for two reason. First, there are no other good alternatives for the Air Force and Marines and secondly the plane offers great promise despite the plane missing the mark during flight test. For the pentagon to cancel the contract and pay Lockheed cancellation costs and rebid would make no sense because Lockheed would very likely be the low bidder since no other manufacturer will know the plane as well as the company that designed and built it. Negotiating with Lockheed is probably the Pentagon's best bet.

Should we modularize our arms industry, and have the commanding heights of heavier industries, reserved to federal and State armories. Gains could be achieved from standardization of heavier parts, under direct government control.

 

[danielpalos]

do land based air forces need multirole aircraft?

 

[rahtruelies]

Trump is going to have our soldiers fight with the cheaper option.

And you assholes defend it.

My God

It's laughable to think a bunch of liberals giving a shit about our servicemen.

Republicans always fuck over our vets. Democrats have a far far far better record of actually helping them & protecting them.

Reubliss like to talk about our vets then they elect a POW bashing POS.

Really? Tell that to the Vets using barry's VA.

 

[rahtruelies]

He didn't invent the tax rules, he just played by them.

the poor don't invent social policy; they just play by those rules.

I'm well aware of that, and want to change the rules to make it easier for them.

equal protection of the law makes it easier for the poor, on an at-will basis.

Is anyone arguing against equal protection of the law?

yes, the entire right wing always fails to advance a second wave; to help secure the concept of natural rights, whenever it is not specifically about guns.

Nah you folks just don't understand that abortion, date rape drugs and butt f^&king are NOT natural rights

 

[eagle1462010]

do land based air forces need multirole aircraft?

yes and no.........

Imagine you are a pilot and are on a mission to attack enemy targets...........Your designated fighters aren't near by and the enemy is targeting you.....You would probably be glad you have a F/A version aircraft............both FIGHTER AND ATTACK.........aka........DEFEND YOURSELF...........If your fighters are there.........say some F22 raptors then they would need to save your ass.................then your needing fighter capabilities wouldn't be the same.............

We have for a long time produced bombers with fighter capabilities so if they are attacked they can defend themselves if no one else is around.

The purpose of the F35 is to have this capability along with all the Radar and anti radar advantages of the most MODERN aircraft in the world........and be able to deliver ordinance on enemy targets whether they be land based or at sea...........

The Stealth Advantage allows our planes to go into a country completely undetected, hit a target, and leave with no one knowing where the hell they came from, or where the hell they are...............

China has built a MASSIVE anti air land bases missile systems in their country............If they can't see what's coming.......They can't shoot it down......allowing our aircraft to destroy key targets with minimal risk to our aircraft and Crippling their command and control capabilities................

That is this aircrafts function........and also to be able to launch off our Aircraft Carriers and Amphibs in the Navy.............but it gets deeper...China has now produced ship killing cruise missiles that can be launched from small patrol vessels in their waters.........which would force our navy to find and kill them first or send in smaller fast attack vessels to take them out..........again using stealth building technology to produce these ships..............which are being built........but not into expectations.........

F35 will cost 330 to 360 million per plane

F22 has cost 150 million per plane..........

The real question here is when they can't get the bugs out of the F35 after spending 400 billion on it, do we keep spending more or wait until they can PROVE they can make this system worked as proposed.............if they can't then perhaps the plane should be reconsidered..........

 

[danielpalos]

the poor don't invent social policy; they just play by those rules.

I'm well aware of that, and want to change the rules to make it easier for them.

equal protection of the law makes it easier for the poor, on an at-will basis.

Is anyone arguing against equal protection of the law?

yes, the entire right wing always fails to advance a second wave; to help secure the concept of natural rights, whenever it is not specifically about guns.

Nah you folks just don't understand that abortion, date rape drugs and butt f^&king are NOT natural rights

It is the right wing that enacted an alleged, Patriot Act.

 

[eagle1462010]

Options.........

Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet - Wikipedia

Advanced Super Hornet[edit]
Boeing and Northrop Grumman self-funded a prototype of the Advanced Super Hornet.[37] The prototype features a 50% reduction in frontal radar cross-section (RCS), conformal fuel tanks (CFT), and an enclosed weapons pod.[38][39] Features could also be integrated onto the EA-18G Growler; using CFTs on the EA-18 fleet was speculated as useful to releasing underwing space and drag margin for the Next Generation Jammer.[40][41] Flight tests of the Advanced Super Hornet began on 5 August 2013 and continued for three weeks, testing the performance of CFTs, the enclosed weapons pod (EWP), and signature enhancements.[42] The U.S. Navy was reported pleased with the Advanced Super Hornet's flight test results, and hopes it will provide future procurement options.[43]

In March 2013, the U.S. Navy was considering the widespread adoption of conformal fuel tanks, which would allow the Super Hornet to carry 3,500 lb (1,600 kg) of additional fuel. Budgetary pressures from the F-35C Lightning II and Pacific region operations were cited as reasons supporting the use of CFTs. Flight testing demonstrated CFTs could slightly reduce drag while expanding the combat range by 260 nautical miles.[44] The prototype CFT weighed 1,500 lb, while production CFTs are expected to weigh 870 lb. Boeing stated that the CFTs do not add any cruise drag but acknowledged a negative impact imposed on transonic acceleration due to increased wave drag. General Electric's enhanced performance engine (EPE), increasing the F414-GE-400's power output from 22,000 lb to 26,400 lb of thrust per engine, was suggested as a mitigating measure.[45] In 2009, development commenced on several engine improvements, including greater resistance to foreign object damage, reduced fuel burn rate, and potentially increased thrust of up to 20%.[46][47]

In 2014, Boeing revealed a Super Hornet hybrid concept, equipped with the EA-18G Growler's electronic signal detection capabilities to allow for targets engagement using the receiver; the concept did not include the ALQ-99 jamming pod. Growth capabilities could include the addition of a long-range infrared search and track sensor and new air-to-air tracking modes.[48]

In September 2014, Boeing readied plans to close its St. Louis production lines for the Super Hornet and F-15 in 2017. Chris Chadwick, president of Boeing Defense, Space and Security, told the Wall Street Journal that, although "we're still solidly behind them," the company could have decided by April 2015 whether to shut down both assembly lines and close the factory, but chose to keep the Super Hornet line going.[49] Due to various Pentagon contracts, Boeing had enough orders to keep things running into 2017 to give Boeing the opportunity to firm up more international orders.[

Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet - Wikipedia

They cost 52 million each............You can buy 7 of these for the cost of 1 F35

 

[danielpalos]

do land based air forces need multirole aircraft?

yes and no.........

Imagine you are a pilot and are on a mission to attack enemy targets...........

The point is, there are no space restrictions and thus, no multirole requirements for land based air forces; i assume full employment of resources in general scenarios.

 

[eagle1462010]

do land based air forces need multirole aircraft?

yes and no.........

Imagine you are a pilot and are on a mission to attack enemy targets...........

The point is, there are no space restrictions and thus, no multirole requirements for land based air forces; i assume full employment of resources in general scenarios.

That assumption has been squashed by requests from the Air Force, Navy, Marine Corps, and etc...........Requesting and demanding the need for Multi Role Aircraft over single mission aircraft...........

They want fighter Attack capabilities on the path finders into the conflict.......to destroy threats.......and then bring in the heavies...........B1's.....B52's and bring massive payloads to the enemy.

 

[danielpalos]

do land based air forces need multirole aircraft?

yes and no.........

Imagine you are a pilot and are on a mission to attack enemy targets...........

The point is, there are no space restrictions and thus, no multirole requirements for land based air forces; i assume full employment of resources in general scenarios.

That assumption has been squashed by requests from the Air Force, Navy, Marine Corps, and etc...........Requesting and demanding the need for Multi Role Aircraft over single mission aircraft...........

They want fighter Attack capabilities on the path finders into the conflict.......to destroy threats.......and then bring in the heavies...........B1's.....B52's and bring massive payloads to the enemy.

we may just be quibbling over semantics. even bombers have self defense capabilities not just bombing capabilities.

The U.S. Department of Defense responded by accelerating its Rapid Deployment Forces concept but suffered from major problems with airlift and sealift capability.[53] In order to slow an enemy invasion of other countries, air power was critical; however the key Iran-Afghanistan border was outside the range of the U.S. Navy's carrier-based attack aircraft, leaving this role to the U.S. Air Force. Although the B-52 had the range to support on-demand global missions, its long runway requirements limited the forward basing possibilities.[54]

Why would fewer multirole craft be preferable to fully complemented, multi-missions, with mission specific aircraft.

Let's assume one wing with a bombing mission and one wing with an air defence mission for the airspace involved.

Or, even a left wing, utopian fantasy of three air wings for an airspace, that may even include a ground support mission.