Zone1 Transsubstantiation?

[DennisPTate]

After I began to think seriously about the Roman Catholic idea of Purgatory, I did discuss my possible conversion to Roman Catholicism with a truly brilliant Roman Catholic professor at St. Francis Xavier University.

I was making progress until I hit the topic of "Transsubatantiation?"

My former "Pope" of sorts, Pastor General Herbert W. Armstrong, may not have been pleased, [if he was allowed to see what I was attempting to do]?

Here is what bothered me.....
IF Unbelief can stop Jesus from healing many people in his home town......
then could not "Unbelief" stop Transubstantiation from happening in a particular diocese, where the priest or bishop is having doubts?

[Matthew 13] :
53 And it came to pass: when Jesus had finished these parables, he passed from thence. 54 And coming into his own country, he taught them in their synagogues, so that they wondered and said: How came this man by this wisdom and miracles? 55 Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not his mother called Mary, and his brethren James, and Joseph, and Simon, and Jude:

[55] "His brethren": These were the children of Mary the wife of Cleophas, sister to our Blessed Lady, ([Matt 27:56], [John 19:25]) and therefore, according to the usual style of the Scripture, they were called brethren, that is, near relations to our Saviour.

56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence therefore hath he all these things? 57 And they were scandalized in his regard. But Jesus said to them: A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house. 58 And he wrought not many miracles there, because of their unbelief.

Douay-Rheims Bible, Matthew Chapter 13

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is the Roman Catholic doctrine that during the Eucharistic sacrifice (Mass), the entire substance of bread and wine is miraculously converted into the actual body, blood, soul, and divinity of Jesus Christ. While the physical appearance and properties ("accidents") remain those of bread and wine, the underlying reality changes.

Key Aspects of Transubstantiation:

• Definition: From Latin trans (across/change) + substantia (substance), it signifies a change of being, not just a symbolic act.
• The Moment of Change:
  This conversion occurs at the moment of consecration when the priest speaks the words of Jesus
  .
• • Substance vs. Accidents: The "substance" (what it fundamentally is) becomes Christ, while the "accidents" (appearance, taste, smell, texture) remain those of bread and wine.
  • Catholic Doctrine: Defined formally at the Fourth Lateran Council in 1215 and reaffirmed by the Council of Trent, it is a central tenet of the Catholic faith.
  • Distinction from Other Views: Unlike Lutheran "consubstantiation" (where Christ is present "in, with, and under" the elements) or Reformed views of a purely symbolic/spiritual presence, transubstantiation teaches a change in the very nature of the elements.

The doctrine is also shared by the Eastern Orthodox Church, where it is known as metousiosis.

I am of the belief that former Atheist and near death experiencer Howard Storm had what could be termed a glimpse of "Purgatory?" It was the NDE of Howard Storm that got me thinking about becoming a Roman Catholic, [in spite of the fact that I am part of the Messianic Gentile or Messianic Jewish movement]?

[Howard Storm]

3. A Rescue from Hell by Jesus Christ​

Now I didn’t know if I was even in the world. But I did know that I was here. I was real, all my senses worked too painfully well. I didn’t know how I had arrived here. There was no direction to follow even if I had been physically able to move. The agony that I had suffered during the day was nothing compared to what I was feeling now. I knew then that this was the absolute end of my existence, and it was more horrible than anything I could possibly have imagined.

Then a most unusual thing happened. I heard very clearly, once again in my own voice, something that I had learned in nursery Sunday School. It was the little song, “Jesus loves me, yes I know …” and it kept repeating. I don’t know why, but all of a sudden I wanted to believe that. Not having anything left, I wanted to cling to that thought. And I, inside, screamed, “Jesus, please save me.” That thought was screamed with every ounce of strength and feeling left in me. When I did that, I saw, off in the darkness somewhere, the tiniest little star. Not knowing what it was, I presumed it must be a comet or a meteor, because it was moving rapidly. Then I realized it was coming toward me. It was getting very bright, rapidly. When the light came near, its radiance spilled over me, and I just rose up – not with my effort – I just lifted up. Then I saw – and I saw this very plainly – I saw all my wounds, all my tears, all my brokenness, melt away. And I became whole in this radiance. What I did was to cry uncontrollably. I was crying, not out of sadness, but because I was feeling things that I had never felt before in my life. Another thing happened. Suddenly I knew a whole bunch of things. I knew things … I knew that this light, this radiance, knew me. I don’t know how to explain to you that I knew it knew me, I just did. As a matter of fact, I understood that it knew me better than my mother or father did. The luminous entity that embraced me knew me intimately and began to communicate a tremendous sense of knowledge. I knew that he knew everything about me and I was being unconditionally loved and accepted.

The light conveyed to me that it loved me in a way that I can’t begin to express. It loved me in a way that I had never known that love could possibly be. He was a concentrated field of energy, radiant in splendor indescribable, except to say goodness and love. This was more loving than one can imagine. I knew that this radiant being was powerful. It was making me feel so good all over. I could feel its light on me – like very gentle hands around me. And I could feel it holding me. But it was loving me with overwhelming power. After what I had been through, to be completely known, accepted, and intensely loved by this Being of Light surpassed anything I had known or could have imagined. I began to cry and the tears kept coming and coming. And we, I and this light, went up and out of there.

Howard Storm's Near-Death Experience - Near-Death Experiences and the Afterlife

Near-Death Experiences and the Afterlife profiles Howard Storm's Near-Death Experience . Did you enjoy reading this post, we have more!

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Howard Storm NDE - Follow Up Interview 2006

115,619 views May 17, 2014

Stunning follow up interview with Howard Storm. I love this guy. My number one book recommendation of all time. A must read.

Howard Storm Interview STUNNING AND LIFE CHANGING NDE 2001​

11,757 views Oct 8, 2024

Howard Storm, an avowed atheist, was awaiting emergency surgery when he realized that he was at death’s door. Storm found himself out of his own body, looking down on the hospital room scene below. Next, rather than going “toward the light,” he found himself being torturously dragged to excruciating realms of darkness and death, where he was physically assaulted by monstrous beings of evil. Finally, drawn away from death and transported to the realm of Heaven, Storm met angelic beings as well as the God of Creation. Storm was sent back to his body with a new knowledge of the purpose of life here on earth.

Howard Storm

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The Dr. Gloria Polo near death experience got me thinking about actually becoming Roman Catholic.

Dr. Gloria Polo, a Colombian dentist, experienced a profound near-death experience (NDE) in May 1995 after being struck by lightning, which killed her nephew and left her with severe burns and clinical death for over two hours. She reported a life review, a, journey to a place of judgment, and a, glimpse of hell, which motivated her to spread a message of repentance, focusing on the Ten Commandments and, God's mercy.

Key Aspects of the NDE:

• The Incident: Struck by lightning while seeking shelter under a tree, resulting in massive, life-threatening electrical burns.
• Life Review: She described being shown her life, highlighting the emptiness of focusing on material wealth rather than spiritual growth and love.
• Vision of Judgment: Polo reported seeing her sins and being shown the reality of heaven and hell.
• Mission: She claimed that Jesus allowed her to return to life with a mission to share her testimony "a thousand times a thousand" (a message of conversion).
• Aftermath: Following her recovery, she became a devout Catholic speaker, sharing her testimony globally.

Her story, often titled "I have been to the gates of heaven and hell," emphasizes the importance of a life lived according to faith, charity, and repentance

Gloria Polo Struck by Lighting: Standing at the Gates of Heaven and Hell | Hearts of the Holy Family​

9,161 views Premiered May 21, 2024 #LifeAfterDeath #DivineMessage #SpiritualAwakening

https://www.heartsoftheholyfamily.orgJoin Yves and Anne Marie Jacques as they dive into the extraordinary story of Doctor Gloria Polo, a dentist from Colombia, who experienced a life-altering event after being struck by lightning. Hear her vivid account of standing at the gates of heaven and hell, and the powerful message she received about faith, sin, and redemption. This profound testimony has touched thousands of lives, revealing the urgent need to align our lives with God's holy plan. Don't miss this captivating and transformative journey!Gloria Polo's book, "Struck by Lightning: Testimony of Gloria Polo" and more deetails of her testimony are available on the Hearts of the Holy Family website.

 

[Eman623]

If you think that unbelief ruins the miracle of transubstantiation, then you can't believe it can actually happen.

There will always be unbelievers.

 

[DennisPTate]

If you think that unbelief ruins the miracle of transubstantiation, then you can't believe it can actually happen.

There will always be unbelievers.

Thank you for this very good comment but the fact is that in Bethany Jesus was able to raise Lazarus from the dead but in Nazareth he could only cure a few sick folk. If my questioning this miracle of "Transsubstantiation" in one dioceses, vs a different dioceses, makes me an "unbeliever" by your definition of that term. So be it.... and I will answer to my Creator when I pass on into the afterlife, for my "unbelief."

 

[Eman623]

Thank you for this very good comment but the fact is that in Bethany Jesus was able to raise Lazarus from the dead but in Nazareth he could only cure a few sick folk. If my questioning this miracle of "Transsubstantiation" in one dioceses, vs a different dioceses, makes me an "unbeliever" by your definition of that term. So be it.... and I will answer to my Creator when I pass on into the afterlife, for my "unbelief."

So the people without belief in Nazareth did not affect Jesus' ability to raise Lazarus from the dead in Bethany. Sounds like it's an observer thing. This is a known principle in quantum physics.

The cat is neither alive nor dead until you look in the box. The electron exists only as a wave function until you look at it. And the bread and wine only becomes the blood and body of Christ when an unbeliever doesn't look at it.

My advice would be to place the bread and wine in a sealed box so that unbelievers can't see them and collapse the "miracle function".

 

[Meriweather]

Thank you for this very good comment but the fact is that in Bethany Jesus was able to raise Lazarus from the dead but in Nazareth he could only cure a few sick folk. If my questioning this miracle of "Transsubstantiation" in one dioceses, vs a different dioceses, makes me an "unbeliever" by your definition of that term. So be it.... and I will answer to my Creator when I pass on into the afterlife, for my "unbelief."

Mark says "could not"; Matthew says "did not". In other passages the word for "could not" is also used in the event a person had another priority. For example, the groom could not attend the feast because he was newly married and was obliged to spend that time with his wife. Or, a person could not do one thing, because he had to attend to business.

Also: Is it possible that Jesus could not do any miracles there, because no one would ask?

 

[DennisPTate]

Mark says "could not"; Matthew says "did not". In other passages the word for "could not" is also used in the event a person had another priority. For example, the groom could not attend the feast because he was newly married and was obliged to spend that time with his wife. Or, a person could not do one thing, because he had to attend to business.

Also: Is it possible that Jesus could not do any miracles there, because no one would ask?

Certainly there would be a tendency for people who grew up with Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus to tend to be unwilling to ask him for assistance. I do agree that that would be one important part of the dynamic there.