Torture, the gift that keeps on giving...

[Bullypulpit]

<center><h1><a href=http://www.newyorker.com/printable/?fact/050214fa_fact6>Outsourcing Torure</a></h1></center>

<blockquote><center><b>Article 3</b></center>

1. No State Party shall expel, return ("refouler") or extradite a person to another State where there are substantial grounds for believing that he would be in danger of being subjected to torture. - <b>CONVENTION AGAINST TORTURE</b></blockquote>

"Extaordinary rendition"...a polite euphemism for transporting detainees to third party nations which, by the way, are neither signatory nor parties to any treaty prohibiting torture. A favorite destination is Syria. The act of transporting persons to such nations for the purpose of torture is a violation of the UN Convention Against Torture. Now, I'm sure some sick bastard will say that the US is under no obligation to adhere to the provision of the Convention, and this is true since the US is only signatory to the Convention and has not, much to our shame, ratified the it. While not legally bound to honor the provisions of the Convention, as signatory to it, the US is <b>MORALLY</b> obligated to honor its provisions. You know...The moral issue was a big one for the Republicans in 2004. But hey, they were more concerned with keeping same-gender couples from getting married than from preventing some rag-head from being tortured. We gotta keep our priorities straight...Right?

Under the "Foreign Affairs Reform and Resturucturing Act of 1998", however, This activity is a violation of US law. Yet we now have as the Attorney General of the United States a man who worked to justify such activities, and as President we have a man who has sanctions these activities. These activities demand the appointment of a special prosecutor and, if sufficient grounds are found, the trial and impeachment of all who aided and abetted this violation of US law, international treaties and human decency.

For further information on this issue, I am providing the following links:

http://www.aclu.org/ImmigrantsRights/ImmigrantsRights.cfm?ID=16165&c=95

http://www.newyorker.com/printable/?fact/050214fa_fact6 (the same link as in the header if it shouldn't work)

http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/crs/rl32276.pdf

http://www.hrweb.org/legal/cat.html

 

[Avatar4321]

If you are so against torture why dont you stop torturing us with these pointless posts?

 

[Yurt]

So where do you suppose we send these people? First you want them to be let go, then you want us to not send them to their home country.

Like the article said, they get assurances that there will be no torture. If they lie, it do be on their head.

 

[Bullypulpit]

If you are so against torture why dont you stop torturing us with these pointless posts?

Why don't you address the issue instead of trying to pretend it doesn't exist?

 

[Bullypulpit]

So where do you suppose we send these people? First you want them to be let go, then you want us to not send them to their home country.

Like the article said, they get assurances that there will be no torture. If they lie, it do be on their head.

You really don't get it...Do you? Torture produces little information beyond whatever the victim thinks will make the torture stop. It is essentially useless as a tool for intelligence gathering. It is a violation of US law...It is a violation of international law...It is an offense against human decency...Not that the Bush administration gives a damn about any of those things.

Torture is not about gathering intel, it is about instilling fear. And with that fear comes hatred. With these policies in place the Administration is sowing the seeds of a nightmare...And as you sow, so shall you reap, and we will surely reap the whirlwind.

 

[OCA]

Why don't you address the issue instead of trying to pretend it doesn't exist?

There is no issue, I checked your links. They were all suppositions based on hearsay and unsubstantiated rumours.

The ACLU and the New Yorker? Get serious.

You have no proof of presidential sanction nor A.G. sanction, even if that were true I say good job to them.

Thanks for supporting terorism over American lives once again......traitor.

 

[Bullypulpit]

And the heads remain buried in the sand.

And, OCA...Once again you have resorted to a favorite tactic of fascists everywhere...Anyone opposing the government line is a traitor. You can't debate the issue so you fall back on that tired old crap. Go home and take your meds.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Don't be a jackass Bully, you think this is something new since the Bush administration? Do you have some hard proof that this tactic does not work as far as gathering intel?

It's an offense against human decency? I guess beaheading people, and suicide bombing is pale in comparison to this isuue.

Is it really that bad that you only have these very little issues to hold onto?
Denial sucks, accept the fact that Bush is here till 2008!

I don't recall the issue being raised against any administration, Republican or Democrat, in the last 20 or 30 years. As far as producing results, it has been know for decades that torture produces little in the way of actionable intel. Do you have hard proof that it does work? And so long as you support the use torture, can you really support the ideals this nation was founded upon?

 

[OCA]

And the heads remain buried in the sand.

And, OCA...Once again you have resorted to a favorite tactic of fascists everywhere...Anyone opposing the government line is a traitor. You can't debate the issue so you fall back on that tired old crap. Go home and take your meds.

You have no issue, there is no proof of anything you posted, or are we just supposed to take your word for it? You are trolling.

Fascism, the new catch word for leftists today, if they can use the word enough and get it into today's lexicon then maybe they can get somewhere, sure can't do it debating the issues.

As for the torture, errrr humiliation my humble apologies to all the intelligent folks out there, the soldiers at Abu Ghraib did one hell of a job and provided a valuable service to their country and should be honored. I wonder how much valuable information was gleamed from these scum sucking dogs? But no i'm wrong, if we had given them caviar and Dom Perignon and provided them with virgins everyday they would've given up info also, heck we didn't need to put ourselves on the line.

As for the exportation of humiliation, provide some solid evidence and we'll discuss it, i'm not into innuendo and conspiracy theory. Until then we will consider that this is not taking place by default.

And yes you are an enemy of the constitution, not worthy of the fredoms you so deceitfully take advantage of everyday while tearing it assunder.

 

[OCA]

I don't recall the issue being raised against any administration, Republican or Democrat, in the last 20 or 30 years. As far as producing results, it has been know for decades that torture produces little in the way of actionable intel. Do you have hard proof that it does work? And so long as you support the use torture, can you really support the ideals this nation was founded upon?

Show that this tactic of humiliation has not been successful, your word is about as good as fools gold around here.

 

[Annie]

I don't recall the issue being raised against any administration, Republican or Democrat, in the last 20 or 30 years. As far as producing results, it has been know for decades that torture produces little in the way of actionable intel. Do you have hard proof that it does work? And so long as you support the use torture, can you really support the ideals this nation was founded upon?

I suppose it depends on what we are defining as 'torture.'

http://www.boston.com/news/world/eu...in_germany/?rss_id=Boston Globe -- Front Page

 

[OCA]

I suppose it depends on what we are defining as 'torture.'

http://www.boston.com/news/world/eu...in_germany/?rss_id=Boston Globe -- Front Page

AHAAA, 1 tip 22 arrests. What say ye traitor?

 

[OCA]

I'm guessing with Kathianne's link this will be the end of Bully's participation in this thread. Could be wrong but his track record suggests this will be so.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Show that this tactic of humiliation has not been successful, your word is about as good as fools gold around here.

And yours is worthless.

 

[Bullypulpit]

AHAAA, 1 tip 22 arrests. What say ye traitor?

You'd sell your soul for less.

 

[OCA]

And yours is worthless.

Whooo what a comeback, that deserves an award. Don't debate me, I know your scared.

Anyway, GED or did you just say fuck it, I don't need a diploma to mop up piss and shit.

 

[Annie]

You'd sell your soul for less.

Bully, no one else is speaking for me. What exactly do you define as torture? I mean we'd agree on 'the rack', but what is it you have in mind?

 

[OCA]

You'd sell your soul for less.

Debate or leave the board. Your choice. You wanted debate, I gave it to you. Now you are just a common troll. Elevate the content of a majority of your posts or part ways.

 

[OCA]

You have no issue, there is no proof of anything you posted, or are we just supposed to take your word for it? You are trolling.

Fascism, the new catch word for leftists today, if they can use the word enough and get it into today's lexicon then maybe they can get somewhere, sure can't do it debating the issues.

As for the torture, errrr humiliation my humble apologies to all the intelligent folks out there, the soldiers at Abu Ghraib did one hell of a job and provided a valuable service to their country and should be honored. I wonder how much valuable information was gleamed from these scum sucking dogs? But no i'm wrong, if we had given them caviar and Dom Perignon and provided them with virgins everyday they would've given up info also, heck we didn't need to put ourselves on the line.

As for the exportation of humiliation, provide some solid evidence and we'll discuss it, i'm not into innuendo and conspiracy theory. Until then we will consider that this is not taking place by default.

And yes you are an enemy of the constitution, not worthy of the fredoms you so deceitfully take advantage of everyday while tearing it assunder.

You gonna debate this Bully or am I gonna pull the fucking plug on you?

 

[OCA]

Show that this tactic of humiliation has not been successful, your word is about as good as fools gold around here.

You gonna provide some proof on its uselessness? Or are you gonna be what you really are, just a worthless, piece of shit troll.