Torture is wrong and unAmerican, nothing but neo-con filth

[PaintMyHouse]

Would rather see thousands of dead Americans than water board a terrorist.
Just cant wrap my head around that......

I'm sure that you can't. To do so requires morals.

So you'd prefer the dead Americans over a wet terrorist?
And you say I have no morals......

That's correct, you have no morals. When you become the same as the enemy you are no better so therefore what are you fighting for, survival, that's all, and there's nothing moral about that which makes you a lower animal, that's all. To have morals means that you stand up for them, even when the price is heavy. If your morality is displayed only during the good, easy, and safe times, then you don't actually have any.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

So what I'm gathering is that the whole pro-torture argument is based on ... "but we're afraid ..."

Compelling argument, huh?

Those who have died to protect our ideals and principles were surely afraid too. But the difference is THEY had the courage to stand up for something.

If George Washington could defeat the most powerful military force of the day with a bunch of shopkeepers and farmers WITHOUT torture, what makes you think the United States of America can't handle these idiots without it? What a slap in the face to ALL Those - living and dead - who have served in the U.S. Armed Forces

Is that soap box high enough? The British met us on the field of battle, these current "warriors" go against every convention of modern war and conflict, and those caught do not deserve the protections allocated to those who DO follow modern conventions.

The difference is the patriots were willing to die for their beliefs. While you sissies are more than happy to cower in fear, trade in your principles and act just like them.

Terrorists forgo any consideration for their "rights" when they break the rules of war. Allowing them protections despite this vindicates their decision to violate said rules, and encourages it.

You still do not get that this isn't about them, it;s about us and who we are. So saying what you said is backwards. Turning into them and not maintaining our principles is what really vindicates them. But you just do not get it because you're scared and want safety.

What i want is information out of the bastards, that precludes true torture, because all you get is what you want to hear, not the truth. What I am not against is stressing the bastards, be it sleep deprivation, calorie limitation, and psychological methods if it is determined they have information we need. Some people consider that "torture" I do not, however if the person is an american citizen you can't even do that until you rescind said citizenship.

I have to say the level of torture would be dictated by how valuable the info was.
If you knew the guy had info on something that could save thousands of people and it was time sensitive...you do whats necessary to get that info.

 

[nodoginnafight]

"We should play by the same rules as the enemy"

Yeah, we should've loaded all Germans into boxcars and taken them to these camps...

With that approach you can never rise above your enemies or truly defeat your enemies.

Nut up - grow a backbone. Being an American means you stand for something.

Those weren't Americans number one. And that you equate genocide with torture to get info is complete and utter horse shit.

I wasn't the one who said "do what our enemies do"
That is the false equivalency.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

As long as we only do it to them, and only use methods designed to get actual information, we are not compromising our morals at all.

That is a rationalization if ever their was one.

Ask yourself if you would approve of this. The terrorist will not talk no matter what you do to him and he is the only one that knows where the bomb that will kill thousands of people is hidden. You can't torture him, he won't talk, but you do have his 10-year-old daughter who you know he will try to save if you strip and rape and torture her. So, what do you do?

If you answer that question honestly your morality will suddenly appear.

 

[nodoginnafight]

So what I'm gathering is that the whole pro-torture argument is based on ... "but we're afraid ..."

Compelling argument, huh?

Those who have died to protect our ideals and principles were surely afraid too. But the difference is THEY had the courage to stand up for something.

If George Washington could defeat the most powerful military force of the day with a bunch of shopkeepers and farmers WITHOUT torture, what makes you think the United States of America can't handle these idiots without it? What a slap in the face to ALL Those - living and dead - who have served in the U.S. Armed Forces

Is that soap box high enough? The British met us on the field of battle, these current "warriors" go against every convention of modern war and conflict, and those caught do not deserve the protections allocated to those who DO follow modern conventions.

The difference is the patriots were willing to die for their beliefs. While you sissies are more than happy to cower in fear, trade in your principles and act just like them.

Terrorists forgo any consideration for their "rights" when they break the rules of war. Allowing them protections despite this vindicates their decision to violate said rules, and encourages it.

You still do not get that this isn't about them, it;s about us and who we are. So saying what you said is backwards. Turning into them and not maintaining our principles is what really vindicates them. But you just do not get it because you're scared and want safety.

What i want is information out of the bastards, that precludes true torture, because all you get is what you want to hear, not the truth. What I am not against is stressing the bastards, be it sleep deprivation, calorie limitation, and psychological methods if it is determined they have information we need. Some people consider that "torture" I do not, however if the person is an american citizen you can't even do that until you rescind said citizenship.

Thank you for the clarification. I agree that yet another problem with torture is that Americans die when they try to chase down the false leads that come from a prisoner who will say anything you want to hear in order to get you to stop torturing them.

The line between torture and tough interrogation is pretty clear. Especially when we have prosecuted others for a particular technique.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

As long as we only do it to them, and only use methods designed to get actual information, we are not compromising our morals at all.

That is a rationalization if ever their was one.

Ask yourself if you would approve of this. The terrorist will not talk no matter what you do to him and he is the only one that knows where the bomb that will kill thousands of people is hidden. You can't torture jim, he won't talk, but you do have his 10-year-old daughter who you know he will try to save if you strip and rape and torture her. So, what do you do?

If you answer that question honestly your morality will suddenly appear.

ha ha ha...

So much for "The terrorist will not talk no matter what you do to him". Raping his daughter isn't doing something to him?

What a joke.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

As long as we only do it to them, and only use methods designed to get actual information, we are not compromising our morals at all.

That is a rationalization if ever their was one.

Ask yourself if you would approve of this. The terrorist will not talk no matter what you do to him and he is the only one that knows where the bomb that will kill thousands of people is hidden. You can't torture jim, he won't talk, but you do have his 10-year-old daughter who you know he will try to save if you strip and rape and torture her. So, what do you do?

If you answer that question honestly your morality will suddenly appear.

ha ha ha...

So much for "The terrorist will not talk no matter what you do to him". Raping his daughter isn't doing something to him?

What a joke.

Not in the way most people think of it. They see it as an eye for an eye, which they believe is justified. When you now have a third-party things get more difficult.

 

[martybegan]

As long as we only do it to them, and only use methods designed to get actual information, we are not compromising our morals at all.

That is a rationalization if ever their was one.

Ask yourself if you would approve of this. The terrorist will not talk no matter what you do to him and he is the only one that knows where the bomb that will kill thousands of people is hidden. You can't torture him, he won't talk, but you do have his 10-year-old daughter who you know he will try to save if you strip and rape and torture her. So, what do you do?

If you answer that question honestly your morality will suddenly appear.

I drug the shit out of him and make it LOOK like I am raping and torturing his daughter. I push it to the absolute limit, up to stringing her up on a rope, and hope the bastard breaks.

But this is a moot exercise because the type of person who wouldn't talk using methods on themselves wouldn't talk if you threatened someone else, even a daughter.

 

[nodoginnafight]

The difference is the patriots were willing to die for their beliefs. While you sissies are more than happy to cower in fear, trade in your principles and act just like them.

Terrorists forgo any consideration for their "rights" when they break the rules of war. Allowing them protections despite this vindicates their decision to violate said rules, and encourages it.

What you are missing is that I don't give a rat's ass about the terrorists. I care about the United States of America. This is NOT about what we do to "them" it is about what some are trying to turn us into.

We should play by the same rules as the enemy. Otherwise you end up with more dead Americans.
If the enemy chooses to fight a guerrilla war you do the same. Unless of course you prefer carpet bombing.....

Would rather see thousands of dead Americans than water board a terrorist.
Just cant wrap my head around that......

I'm sure that you can't. To do so requires morals.

So you'd prefer the dead Americans over a wet terrorist?
And you say I have no morals......

WAY over your head, fella.

There ain't a ladder tall enough sonny...

Apparently not

 

[martybegan]

Is that soap box high enough? The British met us on the field of battle, these current "warriors" go against every convention of modern war and conflict, and those caught do not deserve the protections allocated to those who DO follow modern conventions.

The difference is the patriots were willing to die for their beliefs. While you sissies are more than happy to cower in fear, trade in your principles and act just like them.

Terrorists forgo any consideration for their "rights" when they break the rules of war. Allowing them protections despite this vindicates their decision to violate said rules, and encourages it.

You still do not get that this isn't about them, it;s about us and who we are. So saying what you said is backwards. Turning into them and not maintaining our principles is what really vindicates them. But you just do not get it because you're scared and want safety.

What i want is information out of the bastards, that precludes true torture, because all you get is what you want to hear, not the truth. What I am not against is stressing the bastards, be it sleep deprivation, calorie limitation, and psychological methods if it is determined they have information we need. Some people consider that "torture" I do not, however if the person is an american citizen you can't even do that until you rescind said citizenship.

I have to say the level of torture would be dictated by how valuable the info was.
If you knew the guy had info on something that could save thousands of people and it was time sensitive...you do whats necessary to get that info.

You do what you need to do to get the information. Just hurting someone rarely produces results, unless you do it over a long period of time. You need to BREAK them, and that is more of a pyschological exercise than a physical one.

Torture gets the answer the torture victim thinks you want, breaking gets you the actual answer.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

As long as we only do it to them, and only use methods designed to get actual information, we are not compromising our morals at all.

That is a rationalization if ever their was one.

Ask yourself if you would approve of this. The terrorist will not talk no matter what you do to him and he is the only one that knows where the bomb that will kill thousands of people is hidden. You can't torture him, he won't talk, but you do have his 10-year-old daughter who you know he will try to save if you strip and rape and torture her. So, what do you do?

If you answer that question honestly your morality will suddenly appear.

I drug the shit out of him and make it LOOK like I am raping and torturing his daughter. I push it to the absolute limit, up to stringing her up on a rope, and hope the bastard breaks.

But this is a moot exercise because the type of person who wouldn't talk using methods on themselves wouldn't talk if you threatened someone else, even a daughter.

So, you'd string an innocent child up on on a rope, naked, and pretend to rape and torture her to get what you want, correct?

 

[nodoginnafight]

I wish there were more Americans who were willing to make sacrifices in order to preserve our principles. Without them, America would already be gone.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

I wish there were more Americans who were willing to make sacrifices in order to preserve our principles. Without them, America would already be gone.

There's a price to paid for such things and these guys aren't willing to pay it. Survival is all that really matters to them.

 

[martybegan]

As long as we only do it to them, and only use methods designed to get actual information, we are not compromising our morals at all.

That is a rationalization if ever their was one.

Ask yourself if you would approve of this. The terrorist will not talk no matter what you do to him and he is the only one that knows where the bomb that will kill thousands of people is hidden. You can't torture him, he won't talk, but you do have his 10-year-old daughter who you know he will try to save if you strip and rape and torture her. So, what do you do?

If you answer that question honestly your morality will suddenly appear.

I drug the shit out of him and make it LOOK like I am raping and torturing his daughter. I push it to the absolute limit, up to stringing her up on a rope, and hope the bastard breaks.

But this is a moot exercise because the type of person who wouldn't talk using methods on themselves wouldn't talk if you threatened someone else, even a daughter.

So, you'd string an innocent child up on on a rope, naked, and pretend to rape and torture her to get what you want, correct?

If I KNOW the bastard has information that could prevent the deaths of thousands and that information had an expiration date, i.e. the detonation of the bomb, yes. I would rather face my conscience over one daughter of a terrorist being scarred than the deaths of thousands of innocents.

So YOU are saying you would let the thousands perish, correct? Would you then be willing to stand in front of the relatives of those who died, unarmed, and explain yourself to them?

 

[JakeStarkey]

The far right and neo-cons torture America with their lies

Bush was never in the loop: Bloomberg View Op-ed: CIA torture report says Bush was kept in dark

Bloomberg View Op-ed CIA torture report says Bush was kept in dark The Salt Lake Tribune

CIA misled BYU grad who wrote memo used to justify torture program

Bloomberg View Op-ed CIA torture report says Bush was kept in dark The Salt Lake Tribune

View attachment 34852

Ask the dead in the twin towers. Ask the beheaded.

Oh, that's right, you can't.

Always easy to express an opinion when you set back relaxed watching other folks pay the ultimate price for coddling evil.

Carry on, progressives.

Appeal to emotion. -5,000 penalty. To the back of the torture room for you. You have to watch the small screen.

^^^^can't handle truth

Wait till ISIS has a handful of your hair and tilts your head back

That is what it will take for children like you to learn.

Too bad, so sad

That Pop23 apparently desires to be a war criminal is despicable.

Put him on the next plane to Iraq with a placard hung around his chest, "I want to torture Muslims."

^^^ this message sponsored by USMB butthurt Queen

Let the butt hurt flow, Pop: you are what you are.

 

[JakeStarkey]

OK, we have a libertarian hissy fit going on among at least four freaks here.

So I am outta here.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

So basically we question terrorists with the soft pillow and the comfy chair?

Yes, as a matter of fact that would work very well. If you believe America is the greatest nation on earth, why would you not take the time to explain why, to defend what it stands for, to rise above any form of treatment he would have expected so that he want's to move here, to save the people who be so moral and decent under terrible threat? The way to get information is to make a friend, not an enemy.

 

[nodoginnafight]

I wish there were more Americans who were willing to make sacrifices in order to preserve our principles. Without them, America would already be gone.

There's a price to paid for such things and these guys aren't willing to pay it. Survival is all that really matters to them.

It truly hurts to see them crap on those who had/have real courage.

 

[martybegan]

So basically we question terrorists with the soft pillow and the comfy chair?

Yes, as a matter of fact that would work very well. If you believe America is the greatest nation on earth, why would you not take the time to explain why, to defend what it stands for, to rise above any form of treatment he would have expected so that he want's to move here, to save the people who be so moral and decent under terrible threat? The way to get information is to make a friend, not an enemy.

That makes you an idiot, and a *****, because you know all you will do is blame the government when they don't protect you, and castigate them when they take actions to do so.

Some people cannot be played nice with.

But we all know this is nothing more than Bush bashing for you, you partisan hack.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

As long as we only do it to them, and only use methods designed to get actual information, we are not compromising our morals at all.

That is a rationalization if ever their was one.

Ask yourself if you would approve of this. The terrorist will not talk no matter what you do to him and he is the only one that knows where the bomb that will kill thousands of people is hidden. You can't torture him, he won't talk, but you do have his 10-year-old daughter who you know he will try to save if you strip and rape and torture her. So, what do you do?

If you answer that question honestly your morality will suddenly appear.

I drug the shit out of him and make it LOOK like I am raping and torturing his daughter. I push it to the absolute limit, up to stringing her up on a rope, and hope the bastard breaks.

But this is a moot exercise because the type of person who wouldn't talk using methods on themselves wouldn't talk if you threatened someone else, even a daughter.

So, you'd string an innocent child up on on a rope, naked, and pretend to rape and torture her to get what you want, correct?

If I KNOW the bastard has information that could prevent the deaths of thousands and that information had an expiration date, i.e. the detonation of the bomb, yes. I would rather face my conscience over one daughter of a terrorist being scarred than the deaths of thousands of innocents.

So YOU are saying you would let the thousands perish, correct? Would you then be willing to stand in front of the relatives of those who died, unarmed, and explain yourself to them?

I'm saying that if you have morals then there are lines you do not cross no matter what the circumstances, and I can stand up and explain that anyone all day long, including those who have lost loved ones when had you been immoral, raped the little girl for instance, they might have been saved. If you value more than survival that will happen.

Be immoral and rape an innocent to save innocents, or be moral and innocents die, that is the question? I know my answer and why. I know your answer, and that of most other human beings as well. They are different answers.