Tony Blair: We blew it

[Wry Catcher]

TB is or I am?

I don't know about Blair, but there is no other candidate with her range of experience in the Clown Car or in her D. competition.

 

[Dot Com]

4,000 + US servicemen deaths later they decide to reevaluate. Go figure.

 

[Correll]

Was it UN forces that "ceased fire" in the First Persian Gulf War?

Nope, it was US forces.

You are now reduced to playing games of semantics.


"You guys"? Because democrats never invade other countries? LOL!!

Nah, "you guys" because I'm not an american. The last time the Dutch committed war crimes is a few decades ago.

Oh, well thanks for your help in defeating the Soviet Union. And for the vote in confidence in still being a member of the US led alliance.

Yes, it is likely that it is only a matter of time before some other asshole(s) manage to provoke US to war.

THe longer the better, imo.

But I do not support any invasions at this point in time lacking any new provocations.

And nothing I have said should have indicated otherwise.

 

[rightwinger]

Yet it was a supposed violation of a UN resolution that was used as justification

By the way...it turned out the UN was right about Iraq

The UN was right? How?

Did they predict that there were no WMDs?

Did they predict that the Iraqi would not be able to do democracy together?

Did they predict that the Iraqis would not be effective fighters?

Google Hans Blix and find out what the UN thought

Bush was afraid Blix would prove there were no WMDs and attacked before he could prove it

This is what wikepedia has on his comments BEFORE the war.

"

Yet it was a supposed violation of a UN resolution that was used as justification

By the way...it turned out the UN was right about Iraq

The UN was right? How?

Did they predict that there were no WMDs?

Did they predict that the Iraqi would not be able to do democracy together?

Did they predict that the Iraqis would not be effective fighters?

Google Hans Blix and find out what the UN thought

Bush was afraid Blix would prove there were no WMDs and attacked before he could prove it

This is what Wikepdia has on him and what he had to say BEFORE the war.

You are letting your self be fooled by a Monday Morning Quarterback, are you?


"During the Iraq disarmament crisis before the 2003 invasion of Iraq, Blix was called back from retirement by UN Secretary General Kofi Annan to lead United Nations Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission in charge of monitoring Iraq. Kofi Annan originally recommended Rolf Ekéus, who worked with UNSCOM in the past, but both Russia and France vetoed his appointment.

Blix personally admonished Saddam for "cat and mouse" games[3] and warned Iraq of "serious consequences" if it attempted to hinder or delay his mission.[4]

In his report to the UN Security Council on 14 February 2003, Blix claimed that "If Iraq had provided the necessary cooperation in 1991, the phase of disarmament – under resolution 687 – could have been short and a decade of sanctions could have been avoided."

Think of that. What if Saddam didn't play those games and all of this was laid to rest back in 92 or 93?

You are talking ten years earlier. Saddam had done nothing in those ten years

In an interview on BBC 1 on 8 February 2004, Blix accused the US and British governments of dramatizing the threat of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, in order to strengthen the case for the 2003 war against the government of Saddam Hussein. Ultimately, no stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction were ever found.[7]

MY quote is from Hans Blix's report to the UN from 14 February 2003, less than one month BEFORE the war.

You are quoting from a year AFTER the war to support your argument that the UN was right BEFORE the war.

Your quote has Blix talking about what could have happened ten years before. Blix also too Bush at the time that if he had more time, he could show Hussein did not have WMDs

Bush invaded before Blix removed his excuse for invasion

 

[playtime]

I don't recall anyone claiming HIllary is Obama's boss. Link please.

You need to work on your sense of humor comrade....

Saddam was a bad guy for a lot of reasons.

So what? There are a lot of bad guys on this planet, what gives the US the right to decide which ones can stay and which ones need to be killed?

...And put our children on the front lines to do it?

 

[playtime]

So you disagreed with the rationals for the war. Got it.

Nope, those reasons were fine.

What was your point again?

Do you have short term memory issues? here let me help you out

Iraq was justified for numerous other reasons, and, it the Iraqis had their act together at all, should have ended up much better than under Saddam.

I asked you for the specifics of those "numerous other reasons", either you still buy the bullshit that the was being peddled to justify the war in the first place or you just wandered off into a fairy tale land of shoulda, woulda, coulda and attempted to blame all the negative consequences on the Iraqi people, which is it?

I do however respect the fact that you don't want to even attempt to back up your statement since apparently you've realized that it's an impossible position to defend.

The fact that you disagreed with those reasons doesn't mean they didn't exist or were not real.

Really? which specific reasons turned out to be real?

We freed the Iraqis from their oppressor.

And you think that justifies all the costs? If that's the case why aren't we freeing the North Koreans from their oppressors who are far worse than the Bathists? why aren't we freeing the Chinese from their oppressors? what about the Iranians? How about the Russians?

Did a majority of the Iraqi people ask us to come over and free them from the Bathists?

That they can't be a modern nation state without being oppressed from above is not our fault.

No but the fact that 10's of thousands of innocent lives were lost not to mention a mountain of American blood & treasure is OUR fault.

It is a lesson we should remember the next time we want to overthrow a Muslim DIctator, though.

Yes except for the fact that YOU apparently won't remember it since YOU are still attempting to justify it even after history has demonstrated what a colossal mistake it was, I can forgive all the citizens that were suckered into supporting that war as long as they acknowledge the fact that they were wrong, what I cannot forgive are citizens that refuse to learn from history and still seek to justify the stupidity since they're the leading contenders in the "who's going to fall for this type of idiocy again" contest.

Feb. 20 2003:
“It is unknowable how long that conflict [the war in Iraq] will last. It could last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months.”

- Donald Rumsfeld

 

[Sun Devil 92]

They blew it the day they started whole effort.

What a terrible tragedy.

Bush was a moron. The GOP was all to bloodthirsty. The democrats voted for it before they voted against and will bear the blood of everyone who died with equal weight.

Get some historic perspective for God's sakes. Every conflict in the bloody 20th century happened during a democrat administration. More Americans died in training accidents during WW2 then the entire Iraq/Afghanistan conflict. Harry Truman sent Troops to Korea on an executive order and bungled the mission to such a degree that we lost about 50,000 Americans during the three year quagmire and had to settle for a truce dictated by the N.K. and political instability that lasted fifty years. LBJ sent Troops to Vietnam with a fake crisis and then set the rules so that the U.S. could win every battle and still lose the war. Bill Clinton bombed a defenseless European country when he was literally caught with his pants down in the Oval Office. Democrats voted for boots on the ground in Iraq and then the freaking traitors undermined the mission. Barry Hussein abandoned the Troops in Afghanistan while he destabilized just about every Mid-East country so that the muslem brotherhood could take over.

Not arguing any of that.

Still was against the war in Afghanistan/Iraq before it (they) started.

 

[paulitician]

Let's be real, if the U.S. and Great Britain didn't own the UN and International Justice System, many of its leaders would be standing trial for War Crimes. If any other nations had committed the Iraq War atrocity, its leaders would have been held accountable by now. But do you see any Americans or Brits on trial right now? Nope. And it will never happen.

ANy Soviet leaders ever get tried?

French?

If Russia or any other nation had committed the Iraq War atrocity, i do believe War Crimes charges would have been sought by the U.S. and Great Britain. Both nations routinely do the awful things it accuses others of doing. Yet how many Americans and Brits have you ever seen on trial? I wonder why?

The SOviets did far worse in Afghanistan. Any call to put Gorby in front of a judge?

I wonder why?

The U.S. and Great Britain called for it daily. Meanwhile, they were funding & arming Al Qaeda and the Taliban. The rest is history...

 

[paulitician]

Permanent War. That's the NWO Globalist Elite goal. If there is no Boogeyman to slay, they'll just invent one. Americans need to rethink their support for unjust and unwise policies like 'Regime Change.' They need to rethink supporting this permanent war.

After the fall of the Soviet Union military spending tanked and did so though out the GHWBush and Clinton administrations.

It took a really long time for the Elite to find a new "Boogeyman". Almost as if they were not driving policy.

Without a 'Boogeyman' there's no valid excuse to invade and plunder foreign resources. So the Permanent War folks will always invent one. Now it's up o the People to stop falling for their schemes. Time to end this Permanent War.

 

[paulitician]

Yet it was a supposed violation of a UN resolution that was used as justification

By the way...it turned out the UN was right about Iraq

The UN was right? How?

Did they predict that there were no WMDs?

Did they predict that the Iraqi would not be able to do democracy together?

Did they predict that the Iraqis would not be effective fighters?

The U.S. wanted war. Hussein allowed inspections for years. Nothing was ever found. And who are we to declare 'No Fly Zones' and Regime Change?' We don't have a moral authority to make such declarations. Bottom line is, the U.S. wanted the Iraq War. It wanted a puppet regime to plunder the oil. Simple as that.

Please link to show that we have ever paid less than market rates for Iraqi oil.

Western oil & gas corporations are now flourishing in Iraq. They're doing well. I didn't say you the average American Citizen would ever benefit from the Iraq War. All average Citizens got out of it, was sending their kids to die and paying the enormous costs.

Only the Globalist Elite Fatcats have benefited from the Iraq War. The war wasn't about you or 'Freedom.' The war was about getting a puppet in there and plundering Iraq's resources.

Providing a service for a profit is hardly "a puppet regime to plunder the oil."

OIl is fungible. If the Elite was worried about Oil Production they would have left Saddam there to keep the pumping going.

Hussein was a puppet who was no longer doing what he was told. He had to die. It's what happens to all puppets who stop doing what they're told. The Iraq War was not about 'Freedom.' It was about control and plundering.

 

[Dot Com]

I don't think this half-hearted apology quite covers a fuck up of this magnitude, if Tony truly wants to make amends he can start by giving all his worldly possessions to help support the victims of the idiotic war he helped to foment, then he can beg forgiveness from each and every one of them.

Barring that I say Tony and the rest of the merry band of warmongers that perpetrated that ill-advised and fraudulent war should burn in hell.

What do you think about hillary rushing to war in Libya even though quadaffi son was calling and trying to make peace?

Hillary is a warmongering asshole too but what does the imbroglio that the Obama and his gang created in Libya have to do with the George & Tony Sunshine Bands screw up in Iraq?

Topic

Try to stay on it

 

[Correll]

Permanent War. That's the NWO Globalist Elite goal. If there is no Boogeyman to slay, they'll just invent one. Americans need to rethink their support for unjust and unwise policies like 'Regime Change.' They need to rethink supporting this permanent war.

After the fall of the Soviet Union military spending tanked and did so though out the GHWBush and Clinton administrations.

It took a really long time for the Elite to find a new "Boogeyman". Almost as if they were not driving policy.

Without a 'Boogeyman' there's no valid excuse to invade and plunder foreign resources. So the Permanent War folks will always invent one. Now it's up o the People to stop falling for their schemes. Time to end this Permanent War.

That was a long break from "Permanent War".

The end of Reagan's second administration, nearly all of GHWBush's administration, and all of Bill Clinton's administrations.

I mean that was some attempts at ginning up concern about China, but it didn't get any traction.

Almost like your "boogeymen" of the "Permanent War" folks weren't in control of policy.

Which puts a big hole in your theory.

 

[Correll]

The UN was right? How?

Did they predict that there were no WMDs?

Did they predict that the Iraqi would not be able to do democracy together?

Did they predict that the Iraqis would not be effective fighters?

The U.S. wanted war. Hussein allowed inspections for years. Nothing was ever found. And who are we to declare 'No Fly Zones' and Regime Change?' We don't have a moral authority to make such declarations. Bottom line is, the U.S. wanted the Iraq War. It wanted a puppet regime to plunder the oil. Simple as that.

Please link to show that we have ever paid less than market rates for Iraqi oil.

Western oil & gas corporations are now flourishing in Iraq. They're doing well. I didn't say you the average American Citizen would ever benefit from the Iraq War. All average Citizens got out of it, was sending their kids to die and paying the enormous costs.

Only the Globalist Elite Fatcats have benefited from the Iraq War. The war wasn't about you or 'Freedom.' The war was about getting a puppet in there and plundering Iraq's resources.

Providing a service for a profit is hardly "a puppet regime to plunder the oil."

OIl is fungible. If the Elite was worried about Oil Production they would have left Saddam there to keep the pumping going.

Hussein was a puppet who was no longer doing what he was told. He had to die. It's what happens to all puppets who stop doing what they're told. The Iraq War was not about 'Freedom.' It was about control and plundering.

Hussein was never our puppet. Just because the CIA bought him lunch once in Cario does not make him an employee.

If he was anyone's he was the Soviet Union's, where he got 95% of his shit, and it's not like they gave him that crap in return for following orders. He paid money for it.

 

[Redfish]

Did any of you libs notice the word "WE" in Blair's statement?

the WE he is talking about is the entire world, the UN, the intel services of every nation.

Yes, WE blew it. It was a mistake based on bad intel that WE believed to be true.

BTW, WE includes Bush, and many many others, including both clintons.

 

[Avorysuds]

Let history judge them


Tony Blair says he's sorry for Iraq War 'mistakes' - CNN.com

(CNN)Former British Prime Minister Tony Blair says he's sorry for "mistakes" made in the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in 2003, but he doesn't regret bringing down dictator Saddam Hussein.

"I can say that I apologize for the fact that the intelligence we received was wrong because, even though he had used chemical weapons extensively against his own people, against others, the program in the form that we thought it was did not exist in the way that we thought," Blair said in an exclusive interview on CNN's Fareed Zakaria GPS that airs Sunday.

Blair was referring to the claim that Saddam's regime possessed weapons of mass destruction, which was used by the U.S. and British governments to justify launching the invasion. But the intelligence reports the claim was based on turned out to be false.

And Obama took us back in after lying about ending the Iraq war.... Poor Tony, Bush and Obama.... History will hate them.

 

[paulitician]

Permanent War. That's the NWO Globalist Elite goal. If there is no Boogeyman to slay, they'll just invent one. Americans need to rethink their support for unjust and unwise policies like 'Regime Change.' They need to rethink supporting this permanent war.

After the fall of the Soviet Union military spending tanked and did so though out the GHWBush and Clinton administrations.

It took a really long time for the Elite to find a new "Boogeyman". Almost as if they were not driving policy.

Without a 'Boogeyman' there's no valid excuse to invade and plunder foreign resources. So the Permanent War folks will always invent one. Now it's up o the People to stop falling for their schemes. Time to end this Permanent War.

That was a long break from "Permanent War".

The end of Reagan's second administration, nearly all of GHWBush's administration, and all of Bill Clinton's administrations.

I mean that was some attempts at ginning up concern about China, but it didn't get any traction.

Almost like your "boogeymen" of the "Permanent War" folks weren't in control of policy.

Which puts a big hole in your theory.

You sure about that? We've been bombing & killing somewhere in the world for the last 75yrs straight. I haven't noticed a 'long break.'

 

[bendog]

Let history judge them


Tony Blair says he's sorry for Iraq War 'mistakes' - CNN.com

(CNN)Former British Prime Minister Tony Blair says he's sorry for "mistakes" made in the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in 2003, but he doesn't regret bringing down dictator Saddam Hussein.

"I can say that I apologize for the fact that the intelligence we received was wrong because, even though he had used chemical weapons extensively against his own people, against others, the program in the form that we thought it was did not exist in the way that we thought," Blair said in an exclusive interview on CNN's Fareed Zakaria GPS that airs Sunday.

Blair was referring to the claim that Saddam's regime possessed weapons of mass destruction, which was used by the U.S. and British governments to justify launching the invasion. But the intelligence reports the claim was based on turned out to be false.

Does he know yet that Labour isn't running Britain, or is that news to him too? (-:

 

[paulitician]

The U.S. wanted war. Hussein allowed inspections for years. Nothing was ever found. And who are we to declare 'No Fly Zones' and Regime Change?' We don't have a moral authority to make such declarations. Bottom line is, the U.S. wanted the Iraq War. It wanted a puppet regime to plunder the oil. Simple as that.

Please link to show that we have ever paid less than market rates for Iraqi oil.

Western oil & gas corporations are now flourishing in Iraq. They're doing well. I didn't say you the average American Citizen would ever benefit from the Iraq War. All average Citizens got out of it, was sending their kids to die and paying the enormous costs.

Only the Globalist Elite Fatcats have benefited from the Iraq War. The war wasn't about you or 'Freedom.' The war was about getting a puppet in there and plundering Iraq's resources.

Providing a service for a profit is hardly "a puppet regime to plunder the oil."

OIl is fungible. If the Elite was worried about Oil Production they would have left Saddam there to keep the pumping going.

Hussein was a puppet who was no longer doing what he was told. He had to die. It's what happens to all puppets who stop doing what they're told. The Iraq War was not about 'Freedom.' It was about control and plundering.

Hussein was never our puppet. Just because the CIA bought him lunch once in Cario does not make him an employee.

If he was anyone's he was the Soviet Union's, where he got 95% of his shit, and it's not like they gave him that crap in return for following orders. He paid money for it.

Hussein was just another example of 'Puppets behaving badly.' He wouldn't do what the Wast wanted, especially the U.S. And that earned him a death sentence. Anyone who doesn't go along with what the U.S. dictates, is marked for death.

It'll just label em 'The Next Hitler', and start bombing em. It's an old tried-and-true pattern. The list of dead folks who wouldn't do what the U.S. told em, is a long one.

 

[Correll]

Permanent War. That's the NWO Globalist Elite goal. If there is no Boogeyman to slay, they'll just invent one. Americans need to rethink their support for unjust and unwise policies like 'Regime Change.' They need to rethink supporting this permanent war.

After the fall of the Soviet Union military spending tanked and did so though out the GHWBush and Clinton administrations.

It took a really long time for the Elite to find a new "Boogeyman". Almost as if they were not driving policy.

Without a 'Boogeyman' there's no valid excuse to invade and plunder foreign resources. So the Permanent War folks will always invent one. Now it's up o the People to stop falling for their schemes. Time to end this Permanent War.

That was a long break from "Permanent War".

The end of Reagan's second administration, nearly all of GHWBush's administration, and all of Bill Clinton's administrations.

I mean that was some attempts at ginning up concern about China, but it didn't get any traction.

Almost like your "boogeymen" of the "Permanent War" folks weren't in control of policy.

Which puts a big hole in your theory.

You sure about that? We've been bombing & killing somewhere in the world for the last 75yrs straight. I haven't noticed a 'long break.'

Yes. YOu are walking it back now.

Now instead of "Permanent War" your talking about "bombing and killing".

That doesn't feed the Military Industrial Complex that is supposedly driving policy in your scenario.

Military spending plunged and stayed down from the late 80s to 9-11.

 

[paulitician]

Permanent War. That's the NWO Globalist Elite goal. If there is no Boogeyman to slay, they'll just invent one. Americans need to rethink their support for unjust and unwise policies like 'Regime Change.' They need to rethink supporting this permanent war.

After the fall of the Soviet Union military spending tanked and did so though out the GHWBush and Clinton administrations.

It took a really long time for the Elite to find a new "Boogeyman". Almost as if they were not driving policy.

Without a 'Boogeyman' there's no valid excuse to invade and plunder foreign resources. So the Permanent War folks will always invent one. Now it's up o the People to stop falling for their schemes. Time to end this Permanent War.

That was a long break from "Permanent War".

The end of Reagan's second administration, nearly all of GHWBush's administration, and all of Bill Clinton's administrations.

I mean that was some attempts at ginning up concern about China, but it didn't get any traction.

Almost like your "boogeymen" of the "Permanent War" folks weren't in control of policy.

Which puts a big hole in your theory.

You sure about that? We've been bombing & killing somewhere in the world for the last 75yrs straight. I haven't noticed a 'long break.'

Yes. YOu are walking it back now.

Now instead of "Permanent War" your talking about "bombing and killing".

That doesn't feed the Military Industrial Complex that is supposedly driving policy in your scenario.

Military spending plunged and stayed down from the late 80s to 9-11.

There's always a Boogeyman to be bombed. That's how the NWO Globalist Elites continue their Permanent War. If there isn't a Boogeyman, you can bet they'll invent one.