Tom Jefferson Knew How To Handle Radical Islam

[Thinker101]

So?

Exactly america's problem.

How about sharing your brilliance, what specifically is America's problem.

Follow the thread if you like, we have too many to mention, pick one..

So...you identify rapes as a racist thing, and you're ok with Radical Muslims being more fair. Raping whites/blacks/countries...sounds like equal opportunity rapists.

You have this rather now common ability to connect dots that have no connection to fulfill a belief system, that's sad. Nope, not all rapes are racist, don't be so fuggin' daft. Radical muslims are connected to TJ's raping? Not sure how, and certainly not sure how speaking the truth upsets folks so much that they must then go hide behind "you're ok with Radical Muslims being more fair". But if your notion is that since we're all raping everyone that must mean everything's ok, I do appreciate your honesty. Turns out we're not all that exceptional after all, but rather common as a society.

Here I was under the impression it was you that brought up Jefferson, owning and raping blacks. And, you seem to feel America has a problem, which pretty much throws you into that lefty loon category, which feel borders are bad and America should let any and all Muslims into the U.S. I realize it may be tough for a lot of lefties to actually connect any dots, but what the heck.

 

[Coyote]

That was what pirates did: The Pirate Empire: Pirates and Slavery in the New World.

So now you're not only coddling modern terrorists but Tripoli muslim pirates as well?

How is explaining history "coddling" anything? These dude's are long dead. Times were rough back then

Are Fenton Lum's 14 incoherent posts in this thread going to be addressed?

Here's the thing...you're contributing to the flame fest. So...I'm participating here to get the thread on track.

 

[Fenton Lum]

Exactly america's problem.

How about sharing your brilliance, what specifically is America's problem.

Follow the thread if you like, we have too many to mention, pick one..

So...you identify rapes as a racist thing, and you're ok with Radical Muslims being more fair. Raping whites/blacks/countries...sounds like equal opportunity rapists.

You have this rather now common ability to connect dots that have no connection to fulfill a belief system, that's sad. Nope, not all rapes are racist, don't be so fuggin' daft. Radical muslims are connected to TJ's raping? Not sure how, and certainly not sure how speaking the truth upsets folks so much that they must then go hide behind "you're ok with Radical Muslims being more fair". But if your notion is that since we're all raping everyone that must mean everything's ok, I do appreciate your honesty. Turns out we're not all that exceptional after all, but rather common as a society.

Here I was under the impression it was you that brought up Jefferson, owning and raping blacks. And, you seem to feel America has a problem, which pretty much throws you into that lefty loon category, which feel borders are bad and America should let any and all Muslims into the U.S. I realize it may be tough for a lot of lefties to actually connect any dots, but what the heck.

Well as long as you can label something "left" or "right", you don't have to deal with it. Pretty common in the good old US.

 

[Tom Horn]

Here's the thing...you're contributing to the flame fest. So...I'm participating here to get the thread on track.

So now you're coddling trolls along with islamic pirates....pretty full plate if you ask me.

 

[Fenton Lum]

Here's the thing...you're contributing to the flame fest. So...I'm participating here to get the thread on track.

So now you're coddling trolls along with islamic pirates....pretty full plate if you ask me.

Have you ever considered rational discussion here? Just a thought.

 

[Coyote]

Piracy was epidemic in those days and slavery accepted. I think it's a stretch to conflate ancient piracy with Islamic extremism. Piracy is piracy. It's still a problem, largely in areas where we have failed states and lawlessness.

 

[Fenton Lum]

Piracy was epidemic in those days and slavery accepted. I think it's a stretch to conflate ancient piracy with Islamic extremism. Piracy is piracy. It's still a problem, largely in areas where we have failed states and lawlessness.

.... and the fishing waters have been destroyed by western intervention leaving many with no way to earn a living.

 

[Coyote]

Piracy was epidemic in those days and slavery accepted. I think it's a stretch to conflate ancient piracy with Islamic extremism. Piracy is piracy. It's still a problem, largely in areas where we have failed states and lawlessness.

.... and the fishing waters have been destroyed by western intervention leaving many with no way to earn a living.

I'm not sure how much that contributes to piracy but - overfishing, the use of huge mechanized trawlers does create a problem for cultures dependent on fishing.

 

[Fenton Lum]

Piracy was epidemic in those days and slavery accepted. I think it's a stretch to conflate ancient piracy with Islamic extremism. Piracy is piracy. It's still a problem, largely in areas where we have failed states and lawlessness.

.... and the fishing waters have been destroyed by western intervention leaving many with no way to earn a living.

I'm not sure how much that contributes to piracy but - overfishing, the use of huge mechanized trawlers does create a problem for cultures dependent on fishing.

I would never suggest that's the end all be all on that issue at all, but yeah.

 

[Tom Horn]

I'm not sure how much that contributes to piracy but - overfishing, the use of huge mechanized trawlers does create a problem for cultures dependent on fishing.

The U.S. doesn't fish the Mediterranean or African waters and never has..our only interest there is commerce routes. Lum now up to 18 posts having nothing to do with the OP.

 

[NightFox]

Once the scoundrels got a taste of American firepower, they left us alone.

Umm...no, less than 2 years after the end of the First Barbary War they were back to taking U.S. ships and crews, the practice and the payment of tribute didn't end until the conclusion of the Second Barbary War in 1816 (during the Madison Administration).

Depends on what version of history you choose to believe since Jefferson's presidency ended in early 2009. He was the one who first took them on by building our first real navy.

There is only one version, the 2nd Barbary War did in fact happen (during the Madison Presidency) and it was brought about by the resumption of piracy by the Barbary Corsairs after the conclusion of the 1st Barbary War. Secondly the Barbary Corsairs were not Islamic Terrorists, they were brigands and slavers and didn't engage in piracy to promote Islam (they were in it for the money), made no attempts at infiltration, didn't care about spreading any ideology and didn't carry out suicide attacks in the name of Allah, so trying to correlate the Barbary Wars and the modern "War on Terror" is a pretty faulty comparison IMHO.

 

[Fenton Lum]

I'm not sure how much that contributes to piracy but - overfishing, the use of huge mechanized trawlers does create a problem for cultures dependent on fishing.

The U.S. doesn't fish the Mediterranean or African waters and never has..our only interest there is commerce routes. Lum now up to 18 posts having nothing to do with the OP.

Tom, you can't own hominids, sorry. And murdering off everyone the US has issues with is doomed to faliure, and our joining the league of failed nation states.

 

[Fenton Lum]

Once the scoundrels got a taste of American firepower, they left us alone.

Umm...no, less than 2 years after the end of the First Barbary War they were back to taking U.S. ships and crews, the practice and the payment of tribute didn't end until the conclusion of the Second Barbary War in 1816 (during the Madison Administration).

Depends on what version of history you choose to believe since Jefferson's presidency ended in early 2009. He was the one who first took them on by building our first real navy.

There is only one version, the 2nd Barbary War did in fact happen (during the Madison Presidency) and it was brought about by the resumption of piracy by the Barbary Corsairs after the conclusion of the 1st Barbary War. Secondly the Barbary Corsairs were not Islamic Terrorists, they were brigands and slavers and didn't engage in piracy to promote Islam (they were in it for the money), made no attempts at infiltration, didn't care about spreading any ideology and didn't carry out suicide attacks in the name of Allah, so trying to correlate the Barbary Wars and the modern "War on Terror" is a pretty faulty comparison IMHO.

"Depends on what version of history you choose to believe since Jefferson's presidency ended in early 2009."

Well clearly we all get to invent our own histories now.

 

[Tom Horn]

There is only one version, the 2nd Barbary War did in fact happen (during the Madison Presidency) and it was brought about by the resumption of piracy by the Barbary Corsairs after the conclusion of the 1st Barbary War. Secondly the Barbary Corsairs were not Islamic Terrorists, they were brigands and slavers and didn't engage in piracy to promote Islam (they were in it for the money), made no attempts at infiltration, didn't care about spreading any ideology and didn't carry out suicide attacks in the name of Allah, so trying to correlate the Barbary Wars and the modern "War on Terror" is a pretty faulty comparison IMHO.

They were islamic pirates and slavers who routinely abused their Christian captives. No, they didn't use Facebook to recruit followers or board airliners with box-cutters or shoe bombs, but they were every bit as much terrorists in their day as we have today. Jefferson WON the first Barbary War. Whatever our presence there was in the intervening years, it didn't live up to Jefferson's and a second conflict became necessary. That doesn't diminish Jefferson's efforts there in the least nor does it contradict what what we're doing now...playing whack a mole. You'll notice that Somali pirates found other targets after we rolled through their waters a few years back:

 

[NightFox]

There is only one version, the 2nd Barbary War did in fact happen (during the Madison Presidency) and it was brought about by the resumption of piracy by the Barbary Corsairs after the conclusion of the 1st Barbary War. Secondly the Barbary Corsairs were not Islamic Terrorists, they were brigands and slavers and didn't engage in piracy to promote Islam (they were in it for the money), made no attempts at infiltration, didn't care about spreading any ideology and didn't carry out suicide attacks in the name of Allah, so trying to correlate the Barbary Wars and the modern "War on Terror" is a pretty faulty comparison IMHO.

They were islamic pirates and slavers who routinely abused their Christian captives. No, they didn't use Facebook to recruit followers or board airliners with box-cutters or shoe bombs, but they were every bit as much terrorists in their day as we have today.

Ummm.. methinks you need to do some research as to the definition of "terrorist", the Barbary Corsairs were interested in money not advancing political or religious aims, as I said before they were brigands and slavers which is not the same thing as terrorists, the two don't share the same aims or methods.

Jefferson WON the first Barbary War. Whatever our presence there was in the intervening years, it didn't live up to Jefferson's and a second conflict became necessary. That doesn't diminish Jefferson's efforts there in the least nor does it contradict what what we're doing now...playing whack a mole. You'll notice that Somali pirates found other targets after we rolled past their waters a few years back.

Yes the 1st Barbary War was won during the Jefferson Administration, however the victory was a hollow one since the piracy resumed shortly thereafter and continued until 1816, which indicates that the Jefferson Administration (and the 7th Congress) failed to resolve the problem. Give credit where credit is due though, Jefferson and the 7th Congress did put the pieces into place that ultimately led to the defeat of the Barbary Corsairs.

 

[Tom Horn]

Ummm.. methinks you need to do some research as to the definition of "terrorist", the Barbary Corsairs were interested in money not advancing political or religious aims, as I said before they were brigands and slavers which is not the same thing as terrorists, the two don't share the same aims or methods.

Jefferson WON the first Barbary War. Whatever our presence there was in the intervening years, it didn't live up to Jefferson's and a second conflict became necessary. That doesn't diminish Jefferson's efforts there in the least nor does it contradict what what we're doing now...playing whack a mole. You'll notice that Somali pirates found other targets after we rolled past their waters a few years back.

Yes the 1st Barbary War was won during the Jefferson Administration, however the victory was a hollow one since the piracy resumed shortly thereafter and continued until 1816, which indicates that the Jefferson Administration (and the 7th Congress) failed to resolve the problem. Give credit where credit is due though, Jefferson and the 7th Congress did put the pieces into place that ultimately led to the defeat of the Barbary Corsairs.

"methinks" seriously? Look, you can continue Googling the subject until Hell freezes over and not dispute what I've said in this thread. Was Desert Storm a "hollow victory" because we had to go back into Iraq? Of course not...the second time was for an entirely different reason. And you've finally admitted that Jefferson stood up a US navy that kicked muslim terrorist ass....therefore I win.

 

[whitehall]

The 2nd line in the Marine Corps Hymn, "to the shores of Tripoli".