Bull Ring Tn vs Foxfyre

[TNHarley]

You ready for me to start?

 

[odanny]

 

[Foxfyre]

You were supposed to provide a debatable topic, It is customary to call the person out when you're ready to go.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Look, you two -- I have a LOT of popcorn going to waste right now.

 

[Foxfyre]

Look, you two -- I have a LOT of popcorn going to waste right now.

Me too. But until the guy who called me out provides a debatable topic, there's nothing to debate. I didn't call him out. He called me out.

 

[TNHarley]

Me too. But until the guy who called me out provides a debatable topic, there's nothing to debate. I didn't call him out. He called me out.

I just seen you responded. I gave up after a day. I just figured you were going to ignore it like you have done before.
Ill put it up soon.

 

[Foxfyre]

I just seen you responded. I gave up after a day. I just figured you were going to ignore it like you have done before.
Ill put it up soon.

Ignore what? I said you are the one to provide a debatable topic. You haven't done that. It's fine if you changed your mind. I responded almost immediately to the thread re you providing a topic to debate. From you then, nothing.

 

[TNHarley]

Ignore what? I said you are the one to provide a debatable topic. You haven't done that. It's fine if you changed your mind. I responded almost immediately to the thread re you providing a topic to debate. From you then, nothing.

Ignore a call out. And no, it was the next day. I stopped checking. But like I said, I will post it soon.

 

[Foxfyre]

Ignore a call out. And no, it was the next day. I stopped checking. But like I said, I will post it soon.

You were checking for what? I am not the one who is supposed to provide the debate topic. As I advised you the SAME DAY you posted this thread. Sorry if that doesn't qualify as 'immediate' to you. I will be busy for the next several hours at least doing things other than USMB. But I have neither ignored you or refused to debate any debatable topic you provide.

It has been 10+ days now though and I don't remember in what thread you had an issue with what I had posted.

 

[TNHarley]

How Trump has turned MAGA leftist

I will start with 6 key points-

1. Spending. He has the record for biggest debt in one term.
2. Redistribution. Checks of money. Hundreds of billions to neighborhoods for simply having a black majority.
3. Healthcare. Instead of dismantling O-care, he wants to REPLACE it. Of course he wont. But that is what he said.
4. America First. He is still arming other peoples armies. He is bombing countries. He has now went in and taken the leader of a sovereign state. None of this is for our National security or best interests. It is the exact opposite of America First.
5. The BBB. Funded all sorts of things that we shouldnt be funding. Things the fed gov doesnt even have the authority to do. Like Trump accounts. Raised the debt ceiling by 5T. Increase debt by trillions of 10 years. (CBO projection)
6. Attacks on the 2nd and 14th amendments. From his bumpstock ban to his infamous quote, "Take the guns first, go through due process second"

All of these are leftist policies. Spending, wars and intervention, redistribution and attacks on constitutional rights. This isnt making America great again. It isnt America first. It is driving us further to the left. And MAGA rejoices. MAGA even attacks the ACTUAL America First congressmen that call him out. Massie, for example.

 

[TNHarley]

You were checking for what? I am not the one who is supposed to provide the debate topic. As I advised you the SAME DAY you posted this thread. Sorry if that doesn't qualify as 'immediate' to you. I will be busy for the next several hours at least doing things other than USMB. But I have neither ignored you or refused to debate any debatable topic you provide.

It has been 10+ days now though and I don't remember in what thread you had an issue with what I had posted.

yeah, time stamps are fake news.

 

[Foxfyre]

How Trump has turned MAGA leftist

I will start with 6 key points-

1. Spending. He has the record for biggest debt in one term.
2. Redistribution. Checks of money. Hundreds of billions to neighborhoods for simply having a black majority.
3. Healthcare. Instead of dismantling O-care, he wants to REPLACE it. Of course he wont. But that is what he said.
4. America First. He is still arming other peoples armies. He is bombing countries. He has now went in and taken the leader of a sovereign state. None of this is for our National security or best interests. It is the exact opposite of America First.
5. The BBB. Funded all sorts of things that we shouldnt be funding. Things the fed gov doesnt even have the authority to do. Like Trump accounts. Raised the debt ceiling by 5T. Increase debt by trillions of 10 years. (CBO projection)
6. Attacks on the 2nd and 14th amendments. From his bumpstock ban to his infamous quote, "Take the guns first, go through due process second"

All of these are leftist policies. Spending, wars and intervention, redistribution and attacks on constitutional rights. This isnt making America great again. It isnt America first. It is driving us further to the left. And MAGA rejoices. MAGA even attacks the ACTUAL America First congressmen that call him out. Massie, for example.

1. Nice cut and paste but you provided absolutely no evidence that Trump had the largest one term debt. And it wasn't Trump. It was FDR. The ONLY reason Trump's debt was so large was because of the 2020 pandemic in which the U.S. economy was mostly shut down for most of the year while expenses were massive. It is debatable whether that could all have been handled better but it wasn't Trump's fault that governors kept things shut down as long as they did. Long after he said the country should open back up. It was uncharted territory that no government/President in modern times has had to deal with.

If it had not been for the Pandemic, the record would look much different. His debt to GDP ratio was pretty darn good up to then.

And no President can undo congressional entitlements that have made the debt ery difficult to deal with.

U.S. Debt by President: Dollar and Percentage

The national debt has increased under most U.S. presidents. Here is how much each president's time in office added to the U.S. debt by percentage and dollar amounts.

www.investopedia.com

2. We can debate whether Trump's initiatives to invest in minority communities was a good thing, but the way it was done was definitely right wing. Money wasn't just handed out to people to 'buy their votes' but provided opportunities for minorities to improve their economic situations in a way that helped everybody, i.e. prospered America. And it wasn't billions but a few millions that went into those projects and scholarships for HCBUs.

3. How is replacing Obamacare a left wing thing? You really got off track here with that.

4. Give your evidence for how Trump's foreign policy is a bad thing? In his first term he achieved the closest thing to world peace that any of us had ever known in our lifetimes. This term has been tougher because of the mess Biden and administration left for him.

5. Specifically what did the BBB fund that should not have been funded and why? Support your theory with credible evidence. Even Elon Musk who strongly opposed the BBB now knows allowing the Democrats back into power would be a disaster for America and Americans. He has thrown his full support to President Trump and the pro GOP.

6. I was torn on the bump stock ban implemented after the Las Vegas mass shooting. I suspect he felt the government should respond to that in some way. The gun lobby supported the policy. Both Trump and the gun lobby expected the Supreme Court to overturn that which it did. It darn sure didn't make Trump a left winger.

Trump and the NRA counted on the Supreme Court to keep bump stocks legal

Analysis: When Trump banned the devices after a mass shooting, he did so with the gun lobby's support. They understood the court was likely to overturn the prohibition.

www.nbcnews.com

One thing I know about Trump. He is neither partisan or ideologue but his America First policy will benefit all Americans other than those who personally profit from left wing policy. No professional politician, all his vision, energy, policy initiatives are for what is good for Americans, not what right wing ideologues/partisans think all Americans should want. So yes, he will disappoint those on the right at times and enrage those on the left most of the time. But so far his vision, instincts, intuition, policies have been right for America far more than they have been wrong.

 

[Foxfyre]

I just seen you responded. I gave up after a day. I just figured you were going to ignore it like you have done before.
Ill put it up soon.

I revise a previous post that I responded the same day. It was the next day Post #3 that I responded to your call out. That's about as immediate as it gets for me on USMB.

 

[TNHarley]

Nice cut and paste but you provided absolutely no evidence that Trump had the largest one term debt.

I didnt cut and paste anything.
You are going by percent. Not dollar.

U.S. Debt by President: Dollar and Percentage

The national debt has increased under most U.S. presidents. Here is how much each president's time in office added to the U.S. debt by percentage and dollar amounts.

www.investopedia.com

It does seem like Joe biden did end up passing him by around 500B. So my apologies. He is second, only to biden. lol So my main point still stands, he spends like a drunken democrat. Or one with dementia
And im not going to take on excuses. He signed the bills. He directed the bills. He even wanted to send out more cash than he already did. Luckily, congress shut his retarded ass down.

2. We can debate whether Trump's initiatives to invest in minority communities was a good thing, but the way it was done was definitely right wing. Money wasn't just handed out to people to 'buy their votes' but provided opportunities for minorities to improve their economic situations in a way that helped everybody, i.e. prospered America. And it wasn't billions but a few millions that went into those projects and scholarships for HCBUs.

You are ignoring my point again. Its leftism. Redistribution is leftism.

3. How is replacing Obamacare a left wing thing? You really got off track here with that.

Govt ran healthcare is a righty thing? Lol are you really going to go with that?

4. Give your evidence for how Trump's foreign policy is a bad thing? In his first term he achieved the closest thing to world peace that any of us had ever known in our lifetimes. This term has been tougher because of the mess Biden and administration left for him.

Bombing countries, toppling leaders and sending money to fund other countries war machine is neocon crap. Again, you miss my point.

. Specifically what did the BBB fund that should not have been funded and why? Support your theory with credible evidence. Even Elon Musk who strongly opposed the BBB now knows allowing the Democrats back into power would be a disaster for America and Americans. He has thrown his full support to President Trump and the pro GOP.

I have already stated the bad things that came from that bill. Im not going to post every bad thing in a bill that was over 1100 pages.
Bills should be a couple pages at most. More leftist crap.

I was torn on the bump stock ban implemented after the Las Vegas mass shooting. I suspect he felt the government should respond to that in some way. The gun lobby supported the policy. Both Trump and the gun lobby expected the Supreme Court to overturn that which it did. It darn sure didn't make Trump a left winger.

Responding to something shouldnt go against the constitution. That is leftist crap. I notice you ignored his statement on the 14th.. lol

One thing I know about Trump. He is neither partisan or ideologue but his America First policy will benefit all Americans other than those who personally profit from left wing policy.

No, he is trump first.
How does bombing Nigeria benefit us? How does bombing syria benefit us? It COSTS us, it doesnt benefit us. He just stated the taxpayers may repay the oil industry for rebuilding venezuela. How does that benefit us? We will be paying for oil companies to make billions more.
As I said, trump is turning maga to the left. You make my point for me for defending this mess.

 

[gtopa1]

How Trump has turned MAGA leftist

I will start with 6 key points-

1. Spending. He has the record for biggest debt in one term.
2. Redistribution. Checks of money. Hundreds of billions to neighborhoods for simply having a black majority.
3. Healthcare. Instead of dismantling O-care, he wants to REPLACE it. Of course he wont. But that is what he said.
4. America First. He is still arming other peoples armies. He is bombing countries. He has now went in and taken the leader of a sovereign state. None of this is for our National security or best interests. It is the exact opposite of America First.
5. The BBB. Funded all sorts of things that we shouldnt be funding. Things the fed gov doesnt even have the authority to do. Like Trump accounts. Raised the debt ceiling by 5T. Increase debt by trillions of 10 years. (CBO projection)
6. Attacks on the 2nd and 14th amendments. From his bumpstock ban to his infamous quote, "Take the guns first, go through due process second"

All of these are leftist policies. Spending, wars and intervention, redistribution and attacks on constitutional rights. This isnt making America great again. It isnt America first. It is driving us further to the left. And MAGA rejoices. MAGA even attacks the ACTUAL America First congressmen that call him out. Massie, for example.

You don't bring marshmallows to a bullring!! Can you put up a debate topic that's downright aggressive!!

Greg

 

[Foxfyre]

I didnt cut and paste anything.
You are going by percent. Not dollar.

U.S. Debt by President: Dollar and Percentage

The national debt has increased under most U.S. presidents. Here is how much each president's time in office added to the U.S. debt by percentage and dollar amounts.

www.investopedia.com

It does seem like Joe biden did end up passing him by around 500B. So my apologies. He is second, only to biden. lol So my main point still stands, he spends like a drunken democrat. Or one with dementia
And im not going to take on excuses. He signed the bills. He directed the bills. He even wanted to send out more cash than he already did. Luckily, congress shut his retarded ass down.

You are ignoring my point again. Its leftism. Redistribution is leftism.

Govt ran healthcare is a righty thing? Lol are you really going to go with that?

Bombing countries, toppling leaders and sending money to fund other countries war machine is neocon crap. Again, you miss my point.

I have already stated the bad things that came from that bill. Im not going to post every bad thing in a bill that was over 1100 pages.
Bills should be a couple pages at most. More leftist crap.

Responding to something shouldnt go against the constitution. That is leftist crap. I notice you ignored his statement on the 14th.. lol

No, he is trump first.
How does bombing Nigeria benefit us? How does bombing syria benefit us? It COSTS us, it doesnt benefit us. He just stated the taxpayers may repay the oil industry for rebuilding venezuela. How does that benefit us? We will be paying for oil companies to make billions more.
As I said, trump is turning maga to the left. You make my point for me for defending this mess.

Please stay with the numbers on each point since you insisted on multiple debate topics instead of one that would have been much easier to deal with. It would help if you used the bolded tags I am using for each topic. Otherwise it is too tedious having to scroll back each time to see what we are debating.

1. SPENDING: My link shows dollar amount AND percentages. And again you cannot blame Trump for an economy that was shut down or a world wide pandemic that was extremely costly to deal with and the cost was approved by Republicans. If you intend to demand that 2020 be included than we'll just have to agree to disagree.

It is too soon to evaluate the whole effect of the BBB as Trump had to run on a Biden budget until Oct 1, 2025.

Again from my link: ". . .The national debt increased by nearly 40 times under Abraham Lincoln from 1861 to 1865—the largest multiple of increase in U.S. history.3 Of those who were president in either the 20th or 21st century, Franklin D. Roosevelt contributed to the largest percentage increase in national debt. Based on total dollar amounts, Joe Biden contributed the most to the national debt, adding $8.5 trillion during his presidency, followed by Donald Trump ($7.8 trillion in his first term) and Barack Obama ($7.7 trillion during his two terms), , ,:

Take 2020 out of the equation and Trump would be way down on that list. Also one does not look at the spending alone but evaluates that against the GDP and investments in the economy that have not yet had time to produce results.

We are seeing almost as many surpluses as deficits in recent months though.

2. REDISTRIBUTION. You have provided no evidence that redistribution was involved. Again investment that results in more return than outlay is not redistribution.

3. OBAMACARE. Trump's ideas for replacing Obamacare do not include government run healthcare other than Medicare/Medicaid that was congressionally established and cannot be just stopped without devastating the country. You might want to research exactly what he has proposed over the years re that.

Trump's record/approval rating on healthcare so far is more positive than negative though.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/steveforbes/2025/08/18/trump-is-making-healthcare-a-winning-8020-political-issue-for-gop/

4. FOREIGN POLICY Again unless you post the specific policy/initatives and make an argument for why it was a bad thing, you are just making another vague and unsupportable TDS fused rant. Certainly the point is not debatable.

Trump didn't bomb Syria. He bombed an ISIS nest there after they caused the death of two Americans. Trump has put all countries on notice. Harm an American citizen and you will pay the price. Again he didn't bomb Nigeria. He went after Jihadists who were committing genocide on Christians there. And did so in conjunction with and with the approval of Nigerian officials. Yes whether that was appropriate is certainly debatable on our part. But the debate should be whether the U.S. has any moral duty in such cases.

". . .U.S. Africa Command (AFRICOM) and Nigerian officials confirmed the strikes in Sokoto, a Nigerian Muslim-majority state of four million people that borders Niger. Nigerian Information Minister Mohammed Idris said that sixteen precision strikes were conducted in coordination with the United States using guided missiles launched from Reaper drones. The minister noted that the attack was carried out with the “full involvement of the Armed Forces of Nigeria” and with “explicit approval” from Nigerian President Bola Ahmed Tinubu. . .

The Dynamics Behind Trump’s Decision to Bomb ISIS in Nigeria | Council on Foreign Relations

Facing the Sahel’s growing terrorism threat, the Trump administration could discover that its avoidance of “long-term American presence or commitments” in Africa is impracticable.

www.cfr.org

On Venezuela, I'm not ready to take a position on that yet. I am studying all the pros, cons, opinions, trying to sort out the dishonest propaganda and disinformation from fact there. Later on I will probably be ready to defend what I think about that ohe.

5. BBB Again if you cannot be specific on what is wrong with the BBB. you again are just making another vague and unsupportable TDS fused rant. Again, without agreement on what we are debating, the point is not debatable.

6. 2nd & 14th Amendments. I addressed the 2nd Amendment bumpstock issue which is the only specific issue you raised re the 2nd Amendment. Since the Court overturned that policy it is now moot as Trump has no interest in renewing it.

Since the NRA and other pro 2nd Amendment people are solidly behind him, Trump's track record on the 2nd Amendment is pretty darn good. One incident or policy addressing a specific major tragedy does not nullify that.

You provided nothing specific re the 14th Amendment or what problem you have with Trump re the 14th Amendment. When you do I will address that. There is no way to debate a vague TDS rant. Provide evidence to support your specific issues and we can go with that.

When you call out somebody to the Bullring, you are supposed to come with your evidence to support your opinions. Otherwise there is little to debate. Trying to say you already addressed it in another forum/thread doesn't cut it.

 

[TNHarley]

Please stay with the numbers on each point since you insisted on multiple debate topics instead of one that would have been much easier to deal with. It would help if you used the bolded tags I am using for each topic. Otherwise it is too tedious having to scroll back each time to see what we are debating.

1. SPENDING: My link shows dollar amount AND percentages. And again you cannot blame Trump for an economy that was shut down or a world wide pandemic that was extremely costly to deal with and the cost was approved by Republicans. If you intend to demand that 2020 be included than we'll just have to agree to disagree.

It is too soon to evaluate the whole effect of the BBB as Trump had to run on a Biden budget until Oct 1, 2025.

Again from my link: ". . .The national debt increased by nearly 40 times under Abraham Lincoln from 1861 to 1865—the largest multiple of increase in U.S. history.3 Of those who were president in either the 20th or 21st century, Franklin D. Roosevelt contributed to the largest percentage increase in national debt. Based on total dollar amounts, Joe Biden contributed the most to the national debt, adding $8.5 trillion during his presidency, followed by Donald Trump ($7.8 trillion in his first term) and Barack Obama ($7.7 trillion during his two terms), , ,:

Take 2020 out of the equation and Trump would be way down on that list. Also one does not look at the spending alone but evaluates that against the GDP and investments in the economy that have not yet had time to produce results.

We are seeing almost as many surpluses as deficits in recent months though.

2. REDISTRIBUTION. You have provided no evidence that redistribution was involved. Again investment that results in more return than outlay is not redistribution.

3. OBAMACARE. Trump's ideas for replacing Obamacare do not include government run healthcare other than Medicare/Medicaid that was congressionally established and cannot be just stopped without devastating the country. You might want to research exactly what he has proposed over the years re that.

Trump's record/approval rating on healthcare so far is more positive than negative though.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/steveforbes/2025/08/18/trump-is-making-healthcare-a-winning-8020-political-issue-for-gop/

4. FOREIGN POLICY Again unless you post the specific policy/initatives and make an argument for why it was a bad thing, you are just making another vague and unsupportable TDS fused rant. Certainly the point is not debatable.

Trump didn't bomb Syria. He bombed an ISIS nest there after they caused the death of two Americans. Trump has put all countries on notice. Harm an American citizen and you will pay the price. Again he didn't bomb Nigeria. He went after Jihadists who were committing genocide on Christians there. And did so in conjunction with and with the approval of Nigerian officials. Yes whether that was appropriate is certainly debatable on our part. But the debate should be whether the U.S. has any moral duty in such cases.

". . .U.S. Africa Command (AFRICOM) and Nigerian officials confirmed the strikes in Sokoto, a Nigerian Muslim-majority state of four million people that borders Niger. Nigerian Information Minister Mohammed Idris said that sixteen precision strikes were conducted in coordination with the United States using guided missiles launched from Reaper drones. The minister noted that the attack was carried out with the “full involvement of the Armed Forces of Nigeria” and with “explicit approval” from Nigerian President Bola Ahmed Tinubu. . .

The Dynamics Behind Trump’s Decision to Bomb ISIS in Nigeria | Council on Foreign Relations

Facing the Sahel’s growing terrorism threat, the Trump administration could discover that its avoidance of “long-term American presence or commitments” in Africa is impracticable.

www.cfr.org

5. BBB Again if you cannot be specific on what is wrong with the BBB. you again are just making another vague and unsupportable TDS fused rant. Again, without agreement on what we are debating, the point is not debatable.

6. 2nd & 14th Amendments. I addressed the 2nd Amendment bumpstock issue which is the only specific issue you raised re the 2nd Amendment. Since the Court overturned that policy it is now moot as Trump has no interest in renewing it.

Since the NRA and other pro 2nd Amendment people are solidly behind him, Trump's track record on the 2nd Amendment is pretty darn good. One incident or policy addressing a specific major tragedy does not nullify that.

You provided nothing specific re the 14th Amendment or what problem you have with Trump re the 14th Amendment. When you do I will address that. There is no way to debate a vague TDS rant. Provide evidence to support your specific issues and we can go with that.

When you call out somebody to the Bullring, you are supposed to come with your evidence to support your opinions. Otherwise there is little to debate. Trying to say you already addressed it in another forum/thread doesn't cut it.

1. SPENDING And by dollar amount, Trump spent the second most in one term out of everyone else.
I understand covid happened, but that doesnt excuse his spending. He was the redistribution king during covid.

2. REDISTRIBUTION How is taking from tax payers to give to people and communities not redistribution?
The definition is to reallocate.

3. OCARE Does it matter? Its govt run healthcare. Healthcare should be solely the private sector, not the public. The govt has no authority to manage our healthcare.

4. FOREIGN POLICY you can make excuses his whole schtick was peace. And then he bombs multiple countries. Saying he just hit targets is a scapegoat. Bombs went into that country and hit their soil. Period.

5. BBB I already said trump accounts as one. Then i also mentioned the increased debt ceiling and debt that will be added.
If you want to ignore what I have already posted, and break down an 1100 page bill, we can do that.

6. 2ND AND 14TH LOL so he got overturned for unconstitutionally attacking the 2nd, and it doesn't matter anymore. That isnt much of an argument.
I have already stated that he said to take the guns first and go through due process second, which is a direct attack on the 14th. Since I apparently need to quote the constitution, here you go. "No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.".
Are you reading what I am writing? When I said I have already mentioned it, I meant IN THIS THREAD.
I noticed you ALSO ignored my entire last paragraph.

 

[Foxfyre]

1. SPENDING And by dollar amount, Trump spent the second most in one term out of everyone else.
I understand covid happened, but that doesnt excuse his spending. He was the redistribution king during covid.

2. REDISTRIBUTION How is taking from tax payers to give to people and communities not redistribution?
The definition is to reallocate.

3. OCARE Does it matter? Its govt run healthcare. Healthcare should be solely the private sector, not the public. The govt has no authority to manage our healthcare.

4. FOREIGN POLICY you can make excuses his whole schtick was peace. And then he bombs multiple countries. Saying he just hit targets is a scapegoat. Bombs went into that country and hit their soil. Period.

5. BBB I already said trump accounts as one. Then i also mentioned the increased debt ceiling and debt that will be added.
If you want to ignore what I have already posted, and break down an 1100 page bill, we can do that.

6. 2ND AND 14TH LOL so he got overturned for unconstitutionally attacking the 2nd, and it doesn't matter anymore. That isnt much of an argument.
I have already stated that he said to take the guns first and go through due process second, which is a direct attack on the 14th. Since I apparently need to quote the constitution, here you go. "No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.".
Are you reading what I am writing? When I said I have already mentioned it, I meant IN THIS THREAD.
I noticed you ALSO ignored my entire last paragraph.

1. SPENDING: If you won't take COVID out of the equation I'm sorry. That makes it impossible to honestly evaluate the track record. Your opinion about something, without some evidence to support it, simply is an opinion. And abdication of all normal rules of debate.

2. REDISTRIBUTION: You still have not provided a speck of evidence that any redistribution happened. You need to give a specific example.

3. OBAMACARE: I agree no authority is given the federal government to provide healthcare. But neither does a President have authority to overturn a congressional action that was signed into law by another President. And when such law is overturned it often has to be done incrementally and carefully by Congress so that more damage than good is not done.

4, FOREIGN POLICY: We might as well remove this one from the list since you ignore any argument I make and just keep spouting TDS infused rants about it while offering no evidence that the policy was bad or inappropriate.

5. BBB: What 'Trump accounts". I have no idea what you are talking about there. Give me a specific. Okay you didn't want the debt ceiling raised and the government shut down permanently. I see that as a bad thing. Convince me it would have been a good thing.

6. 2nd and 14th Amendments: Many constitutional scholars do not translate the 14th Amendment as you seem to want it to be translated and I certainly know the Founders would not interpret it that way. I agree with the President's opinion on that and hope with all my heart so will the Supreme Court agree that it was NEVER intended that everybody born on U.S. soil would have automatic citizenship.

Excellent 8 minute analysis here:


Give me the post number that I 'ignored' a last paragraph.

 

[TNHarley]

1. SPENDING: If you won't take COVID out of the equation I'm sorry. That makes it impossible to honestly evaluate the track record. Your opinion about something, without some evidence to support it, simply is an opinion. And abdication of all normal rules of debate.

2. REDISTRIBUTION: You still have not provided a speck of evidence that any redistribution happened. You need to give a specific example.

3. OBAMACARE: I agree no authority is given the federal government to provide healthcare. But neither does a President have authority to overturn a congressional action that was signed into law by another President. And when such law is overturned it often has to be done incrementally and carefully by Congress so that more damage than good is not done.

3, FOREIGN POLICY: We might as well remove this one from the list since you ignore any argument I make and just keep spouting TDS infused rants about it while offering no evidence that the policy was bad or inappropriate.

4. BBB: What 'Trump accounts". I have no idea what you are talking about there. Give me a specific. Okay you didn't want the debt ceiling raised and the government shut down permanently. I see that as a bad thing. Convince me it would have been a good thing.

5. 2nd and 14th Amendments: Many constitutional scholars do not translate the 14th Amendment as you seem to want it to be translated and I certainly know the Founders would not interpret it that way. I agree with the President's opinion on that and hope with all my heart so will the Supreme Court agree that it was NEVER intended that everybody born on U.S. soil would have automatic citizenship.

1. SPENDING Jesus Christ, I have already supplied the link to his first term spending. Excuses arent an argument. I KNEW this was going to be your entire defense for this. The fed gov had no authority to do what they did with covid. All that happened was redistribution, more fraud, more deficit and higher debt.
2. REDISTRIBUTION I never claimed it came to fruition. Its what he wanted to do. Lots of his leftist BS never came to pass. But here you are, defending it. Which was my entire point of this.
3. OBAMACARE. But that wasnt his plan. His plan was to eliminate it, which they didnt, and replace it with more govt healthcare.
4. FOREIGN POLICY All you have are excuses and scapegoats. He has bombed multiple countries, toppled a leader of a soverign country and plans on controlling it for the foreseeable future. 100% fact.
5. BBB New Trump accounts provide savings options for children That explains the trump accounts.
Instead of addressing the problem with spending, he went the lazy route. As all leftists do. So they can spend more.
6. 14TH What are you talking about? I was clearly referring to due process. Which he attacked directly with those words.

 

[Foxfyre]

1. SPENDING Jesus Christ, I have already supplied the link to his first term spending. Excuses arent an argument. I KNEW this was going to be your entire defense for this. The fed gov had no authority to do what they did with covid. All that happened was redistribution, more fraud, more deficit and higher debt.
2. REDISTRIBUTION I never claimed it came to fruition. Its what he wanted to do. Lots of his leftist BS never came to pass. But here you are, defending it. Which was my entire point of this.
3. OBAMACARE. But that wasnt his plan. His plan was to eliminate it, which they didnt, and replace it with more govt healthcare.
4. FOREIGN POLICY All you have are excuses and scapegoats. He has bombed multiple countries, toppled a leader of a soverign country and plans on controlling it for the foreseeable future. 100% fact.
5. BBB New Trump accounts provide savings options for children That explains the trump accounts.
Instead of addressing the problem with spending, he went the lazy route. As all leftists do. So they can spend more.
6. 14TH What are you talking about? I was clearly referring to due process. Which he attacked directly with those words.

1. SPENDING. I posted rebuttal to your links and also request for you to specify what spending was inappropriate..

2. REDISTRIBUTION. You have provided zero evidence that he supported it or supports it. Post your evidence in proper context please. Lines plucked out of context and misrepresented as what he actually said/intended won't work with me.

3. OBAMACARE. You still have provided zero evidence that Trump intended government healthcare. All his ideas I've seen leaned toward private healthcare as much as possible.

4. FOREIGN POLICY. You're still just ranting TDS nonsense and ignoring what actually happened. Lost cause for you. Until you give me a specific argument based on actual facts of what transpired--you ignored my rebuttal to your opinion-- I won't respond to you further on this.

5. BBB. Your link doesn't work. Explain exactly how saving options for children would work and are a bad thing.

6. 2nd and 14th Amendments. You didn't even listen to Levine's 8 minute commentary did you and what the language of the 14th amendment actually intended.

Look you can debate specific issues which is what the Bullring is for, or you can continue to spout your personal vague TDS afflicted opinion and refuse to make an argument for why your opinion is valid. Or you can agree to disagree and we can both go do other things. Your opinion is not valid debate. Facts, results, track record, history, all relevant factors in an specific and honestly described issue provide valid debate.