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Time to choose a side

Rogue AI

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Nope... My side is that of the minority... The same side I am ALWAYS ON. MINE.

I agree and disagree on ideas based on their merits. I don't care who came up with those ideas.

Thank you. I think party politics is the worst thing that ever happened to our nation. No one cares if we make progress or fix problems, as long as their side beats the other side.
The two party system worked for over 200 years. The civil war was not a product of the two party system but of pre-existing problems that were simply never addressed. The two party system is supposed to limit extremism on both sides and create a moderate and workable government. The only time it becomes problematic is when radicals do in fact overthrow one side, as the progressives have done to the Democrats.
 
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YoursTruly

YoursTruly

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I don't choose a party, but there are certain values I believe in. I find constitutional state, a free political system and honest, constructive debate pretty cool.

I like it when people with different opinions about what's good for the country debate with mutual respect, and in the end, the majority decides. And that there are certain basic rights that are always protected, regardless what the majority thinks.

That's why I don't like the utter decline of public debate due to fake news, disinformation, demonization of people who disagree and hyper-polarization of topics that are too complex for simple A or B answers.
That's the way it should be. It's the way it used to be.
If I was American, I'd vote for the Dems as the lesser evil. That's because I feel the Republicans which are currently still in the pockets of Trump, stand for everything I dislike: They are anti-constitutional, they are for fake news, they deny facts and truth, and they demonize their opponents. They place power over truth, over facts and over the welfare of their country.

The Democrats play a role in this polarization, too, but at least they still respect the constitution and legal procedures, and they don't totally deny facts to the extent the Republicans do that.
The lesser of two evils is still evils. As much as I agree with you about how republican are, I think maybe you don't realize just how much the democrats are like the republicans. All those things you stated about the republicans, can honestly be said about the democrats. At least enough of them. But of course, that's not absolute. There are some good people in both parties.
The similarities are more noticeable in their voting records, not so much their speeches. Trying to match up their speeches (from the more corrupt R & D's) to their voting records takes some work. But the results might astonish you.
As far as the Constitution goes, again, neither side of the isle really gives a crap about that. They use the "excuse" that things are different now than when the constitution was enacted. As true as that might be. But as someone who actually supports the constitution, IMO that if what ever they're trying to do isn't mentioned in the constitution or the bill of rights, then they should not do anything.
Many times, the government doing nothing, is better than them trying to do something.
 

toobfreak

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But before you do, you have to decide how much you can stomach being part of their group.

If you choose, or have chosen the republicans, you have to put up with:

If you're a democrat, you'll have to put up with this.
1. A baby in the womb is just cells. It's not really life.
2. You'll have to overlook all the violent druggy thugs, and have sympathy for them, when they murder, rape or beat you
3. You'll have to overlook all the wars against countries that pose no threat to our national security.
4. You'll have to overlook your parties nomination rigging.
5. You'll have to overlook for profit race based organizations that makes whites out to be bad people.
6. You'll have to overlook the fact that the democrats are more focused on taking guns from people who don't commit violent gun crimes than they are those who actually do
7. You're going to have to overlook the fact that transgender females still have a male bone and muscle structure when they're beating the snot out of biological females in sports.
8. And having an open border means that more and more fentanyl and heroin will be coming across our borders.
9. You'll have to put up with your party flip flopping on issues when it's convenient. As in immigration. Back during Bill Clintons era and before, democrats wanted to secure Americans jobs by securing the border. You're going to have to learn to just "blow with the wind" a lot better.

I started out keeping all your accurate points and throwing out just the BS. Very odd that while you could nail down many of the worst aspects of the DNC, you utterly blew it with the GOP demonstrating that you basically really don't understand republicans at all.
 

Bernhard

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I don't choose a party, but there are certain values I believe in. I find constitutional state, a free political system and honest, constructive debate pretty cool.

I like it when people with different opinions about what's good for the country debate with mutual respect, and in the end, the majority decides. And that there are certain basic rights that are always protected, regardless what the majority thinks.

That's why I don't like the utter decline of public debate due to fake news, disinformation, demonization of people who disagree and hyper-polarization of topics that are too complex for simple A or B answers.
That's the way it should be. It's the way it used to be.
If I was American, I'd vote for the Dems as the lesser evil. That's because I feel the Republicans which are currently still in the pockets of Trump, stand for everything I dislike: They are anti-constitutional, they are for fake news, they deny facts and truth, and they demonize their opponents. They place power over truth, over facts and over the welfare of their country.

The Democrats play a role in this polarization, too, but at least they still respect the constitution and legal procedures, and they don't totally deny facts to the extent the Republicans do that.
The lesser of two evils is still evils. As much as I agree with you about how republican are, I think maybe you don't realize just how much the democrats are like the republicans. All those things you stated about the republicans, can honestly be said about the democrats. At least enough of them. But of course, that's not absolute. There are some good people in both parties.
The similarities are more noticeable in their voting records, not so much their speeches. Trying to match up their speeches (from the more corrupt R & D's) to their voting records takes some work. But the results might astonish you.
As far as the Constitution goes, again, neither side of the isle really gives a crap about that. They use the "excuse" that things are different now than when the constitution was enacted. As true as that might be. But as someone who actually supports the constitution, IMO that if what ever they're trying to do isn't mentioned in the constitution or the bill of rights, then they should not do anything.
Many times, the government doing nothing, is better than them trying to do something.

Well, the fundamental difference is ... when losing an election, Democrats respect the constitution and grudgingly give up power, maybe after filing a lawsuit that was then decided against them.

Republicans no longer respect the constitution and when losing an election, they rally up a mob to storm the capitol, with the intent of staging a coup to cling to power despite being diselected.

That's a huge difference. The former is the behavior of a constitutional, democratic party that believes in freedom and Western values. The latter is the behavior of common autocratic tyrants America always used to battle in the past 200 years.
 
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YoursTruly

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The two party system worked for over 200 years. The civil war was not a product of the two party system but of pre-existing problems that were simply never addressed. The two party system is supposed to limit extremism on both sides and create a moderate and workable government. The only time it becomes problematic is when radicals do in fact overthrow one side, as the progressives have done to the Democrats.

Personally, I don't think we really have two party's. From the outside looking in, it seems more like we have one party with two different names. Two different lines of rhetoric. But honestly, when something has to get done, both sides come together like BFF's.
NDAA, Patriot Act, FISA (including 702), spending, the Fed, and other things that are important to them, you can't tell the difference between the two.
On social issues, the rhetoric changes, and the votes differ. But usually only when one party is in the minority does a subject become a hot topic.
Example: Abortion. Abortion never becomes a hot topic when the GOP has the majority. If it became an issue during a GOP majority, the republican voters would expect them to do something about it. After, they have the majority.

It's all in the rhetoric. Who's got the best rhetoric. Democrats have a way of making it sound like they help the poor and suppressed. Who doesn't like that?
The republicans have a way of making it sound like they want people to help themselves. Who doesn't like that?
The fuzzy part of both is how it's executed. Everyone knows there are people who get addicted to the help and become lazy du nuffins. Those people become fodder for the right to oppose social help. And the left uses that against the republicans because there's also people that actually need that help.
But when you get right down to it, nothing really changes. There's still people that actually need the help and can't get it. And there's people who are just lazy, who get way too much. There's a simple fix to all this. But neither side will do it,
 
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YoursTruly

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I started out keeping all your accurate points and throwing out just the BS. Very odd that while you could nail down many of the worst aspects of the DNC, you utterly blew it with the GOP demonstrating that you basically really don't understand republicans at all.

Maybe I do understand them. But you just don't agree with my reasoning for not supporting them.
 
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YoursTruly

YoursTruly

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Well, the fundamental difference is ... when losing an election, Democrats respect the constitution and grudgingly give up power, maybe after filing a lawsuit that was then decided against them.

Republicans no longer respect the constitution and when losing an election, they rally up a mob to storm the capitol, with the intent of staging a coup to cling to power despite being diselected.

That's a huge difference. The former is the behavior of a constitutional, democratic party that believes in freedom and Western values. The latter is the behavior of common autocratic tyrants America always used to battle in the past 200 years.

On the day Trump was supposed to leave the white house, he did. So then there's that.
The way this election went down wasn't just different because of the lawsuits that were filed in protest. But the way the vote counting took place. Blame that on the Covid thing. But last minute comebacks are extremely rare.
There's absolutely no way to know for sure if the election and vote counting was fair or not. Both sides say different things, and depending on which side of the isle you stand, will determine which side you believe.
None of us here counted every vote. So all we have to go by is what we're told.
I choose to believe neither side, because I'm neither a republican or a democrats. IMO, it didn't matter if Trump stayed in office, or Biden came in.

Trump wasn't as bad as the democrats made him out to be. But not near as good as his supporters made him out to be.
 
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YoursTruly

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toobfreak

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I started out keeping all your accurate points and throwing out just the BS. Very odd that while you could nail down many of the worst aspects of the DNC, you utterly blew it with the GOP demonstrating that you basically really don't understand republicans at all.

Maybe I do understand them. But you just don't agree with my reasoning for not supporting them.

No, I just don't agree with your liberal claims. They were all talking points like a progressive might claim. You even emphasized the word Republican while not similarly doing the same for the word Democrat.

You are clearly NOT a neutral person.
 

Flopper

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Nope... My side is that of the minority... The same side I am ALWAYS ON. MINE.

I agree and disagree on ideas based on their merits. I don't care who came up with those ideas.

Thank you. I think party politics is the worst thing that ever happened to our nation. No one cares if we make progress or fix problems, as long as their side beats the other side.
The two party system worked for over 200 years. The civil war was not a product of the two party system but of pre-existing problems that were simply never addressed. The two party system is supposed to limit extremism on both sides and create a moderate and workable government. The only time it becomes problematic is when radicals do in fact overthrow one side, as the progressives have done to the Democrats.
Both parties have gone to the extremes. In a two party system when one party goes further Left or Right, the other heads in opposite direct. In the past, party moderates on each side form coalitions or opposition to the leadership. That's not happening today because each party simply is too strong. Reengages and third party movements are crushed.
 
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YoursTruly

YoursTruly

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No, I just don't agree with your liberal claims. They were all talking points like a progressive might claim. You even emphasized the word Republican while not similarly doing the same for the word Democrat.

You are clearly NOT a neutral person.

Not neutral? No, I'm not. But I'm definitely not a republican. But I do believe in many of the republicans talking points. Where I differ is knowing the republicans (most of them) aren't actually conservative. The GOP platform is build on conservative values. The leadership of the GOP and the higher up (McConnell for example) don't necessarily abide by their own platform.
Like being fiscally conservative, which is in the RNC platform. During a republican majority, they spend as much as the democrats. Trump himself promised to balance the budget in like 4 years. He increased it, with the help of the republicans.
I like politicians who do what they say.

The talking points, as you call them, I repeated the ones that were true, for both sides. Democrats, in the last few years, seem to care more about transgender and immigrant rights, than they care about the working class Americans. And that's something that democrat voters, who don't really care about immigrants or transgenders will just have to put up with. This isn't a talking point. It's a fact. The liberals in the democratic party are having to put up with the progressives. And are hoping it's just a fad. They put up with them because it means votes and donations.
It's a fact that if the GOP had taken up the transgender fight, on the side of the transgender people, the left would oppose them at every turn.
 

Rogue AI

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Nope... My side is that of the minority... The same side I am ALWAYS ON. MINE.

I agree and disagree on ideas based on their merits. I don't care who came up with those ideas.

Thank you. I think party politics is the worst thing that ever happened to our nation. No one cares if we make progress or fix problems, as long as their side beats the other side.
The two party system worked for over 200 years. The civil war was not a product of the two party system but of pre-existing problems that were simply never addressed. The two party system is supposed to limit extremism on both sides and create a moderate and workable government. The only time it becomes problematic is when radicals do in fact overthrow one side, as the progressives have done to the Democrats.
Both parties have gone to the extremes. In a two party system when one party goes further Left or Right, the other heads in opposite direct. In the past, party moderates on each side form coalitions or opposition to the leadership. That's not happening today because each party simply is too strong. Reengages and third party movements are crushed.
Hardly, Republicans are centrists at most, that is simply how far left Democrats have gone. Leftists pretend they haven't radicalized, yet they openly run socialist candidates on the presidential stage.
 
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YoursTruly

YoursTruly

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Hardly, Republicans are centrists at most, that is simply how far left Democrats have gone. Leftists pretend they haven't radicalized, yet they openly run socialist candidates on the presidential stage.

Check out post #126 and tell me if you think it's accurate.
 

Rogue AI

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Hardly, Republicans are centrists at most, that is simply how far left Democrats have gone. Leftists pretend they haven't radicalized, yet they openly run socialist candidates on the presidential stage.

Check out post #126 and tell me if you think it's accurate.
I don't think it's that accurate. In America most people don't really care about politics until something significant happens. The portion of that video that discusses the 'people' would represent mostly apathetic Americans. The people more interested tend to fall quickly to one side or the other. The two party system works, and there is some overlap, there needs to be in order for compromise to happen. Sadly Marxists have usurped the DNC and until moderates take it back, there can be no compromise.
 

Flopper

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Hardly, Republicans are centrists at most, that is simply how far left Democrats have gone. Leftists pretend they haven't radicalized, yet they openly run socialist candidates on the presidential stage.

Check out post #126 and tell me if you think it's accurate.
Surely you don't consider a siege on the US Capital in an attempt to overthrow an election certified by all states and the US congress the act of centralists.
 

airplanemechanic

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airplanemechanic

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Hardly, Republicans are centrists at most, that is simply how far left Democrats have gone. Leftists pretend they haven't radicalized, yet they openly run socialist candidates on the presidential stage.

Check out post #126 and tell me if you think it's accurate.
Surely you don't consider a siege on the US Capital in an attempt to overthrow an election certified by all states and the US congress the act of centralists.

Certainly you don't consider a group of unarmed people holding Trump flags and American flags to be a siege on the US Capitol right?
 

imawhosure

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I'm cool right where I am ...

View attachment 497758

Almost all the way on the left side? Ok I'll remember that.
Notice, how the Leftists put forth their proof by what media says; just like they did with his majesty oh Fauci, and the rest of their crew.

It is over, one way or the other; and the Left is worried. Either they indoctrinated enough people, or the backlash is going to be uncontrollable for them.

They can talk all they want; including Mac, but it all boils down to if they sold their nonsense. With 75 million voters going against them, and states insuring they gotta show up to cast a vote, I would say the party is over for the Left. And if it isn't, then they can explain inflation, loss to China, and everything else going on.

They are the biggest phonies we have ever been witness to, and that is an understatement. They are going to lose the House and the Senate in 2022, and have no chance unless in 2024 Trump is the nominee. They better kiss his butt to run and make it about him, because they won only for the fact they got votes against him in 2020, and NOT for Biden. And it is still up in the air if they could win in 2024 if he was the nominee.

If he isn't, they are post toasties, lol. So if they want an even chance, they better try and prod him into running!
 

fncceo

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Flopper

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Hardly, Republicans are centrists at most, that is simply how far left Democrats have gone. Leftists pretend they haven't radicalized, yet they openly run socialist candidates on the presidential stage.

Check out post #126 and tell me if you think it's accurate.
Surely you don't consider a siege on the US Capital in an attempt to overthrow an election certified by all states and the US congress the act of centralists.

Certainly you don't consider a group of unarmed people holding Trump flags and American flags to be a siege on the US Capitol right?
They were not all unarmed and they weren't going to the capital for a peaceful protest. They carried a variety of weapons: stun guns, pepper spray, baseball bats and flagpoles wielded as clubs. They were doing far more than waving flags. They invaded the capital with threats of violence toward congressmen and stopped a session of congress. No congressmen were harmed do to the rapid response of capital police. 5 people died (1 shot dead, 1 from drug overdose, 3 from natural causes). An unknown number of insurgents were injured at least five hospitalized and at least 138 police officers (73 Capitol Police officers, 65 Metropolitan Police Department officers) suffered injuries including at least 15 hospitalized. Of Trump's "great patriots", 510 have been charged with various crimes.
 

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