Time to attack iran

[Dr.Drock]

I've said as much in other posts, don't get me wrong. I feel the US SHOULD go to war with Iran because, in reality, Iran has been waging war on the US indirectly for decades.

And btw, I also feel the US has done some horrendous things to Iranians since and after 1953. I remember a quote from a senior US official to the UN regarding Saddam's chemical weapons, where he said something along the lines of 'It's a difficult situation. You want Iraq to stop using chemical weapons, but on the other hand... you don't want Iran to win the war!" I mean that is a borderline evil thing to say, and it was the US policy towards Iran.

HOWEVER, I agree that the costs are way too high for this war. I would not support a US or Israeli attack on Iran. My main argument is against people that assume that the attack on Iran would be morally as low as the attack on Iraq. To say so is to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iran.

I agree with what you say about the costs of war, and actually would go further by saying what I've already probably said 10X (and I'm paraphrasing an scholar whose name I can't remember unfortunately): If you were to hold referendums today in the Middle East, every single country with one exception would have a theocratic government like Iran's. The exception is of course Iran itself. If the US were to attack, this reality would change.

But I don't agree with the statement that there are other countries more dangerous than Iran. One, it is in the single most important region of the world, surrounded by allies of the US, controlling or influencing the vast majority of the flow of energy around the world.

Two, it has imperial ambitions. The revolution was from the start meant to be a starting point for the spread of the new Shia empire. On top of that, the rather extreme ethnocentrism and nationalism of Iranians who consider themselves superior to Arabs is just a powderkeg waiting to explode as soon as Iran becomes the single dominant nation in the region. For years Iranians and Russians have been building towards a middle east controlled by Iran and influenced by Russia. It is a very rational consequence of the departure of US influence in the region (and the original reason for US interferance in Iran since thd 1920s).

If North Korea nukes Japan, it would be unbelievably horrendous. But it couldn't damage the entire world economy. If Iran got into a war with its very natural enemy, Saudi Arabia... can you imagine the consequences? The entire world economy would be brought to its knees.

Again, I don't say the US MUST attack. But if we're talking about a country that has to look at its best interests and the interest of its allies in the region (not just Israel), you do have to make the case that the US would not be in the same moral position as it was with Iraq (a country that was not a genuine threat after the first gulf war, and had been tortured through air attacks and sanctions for over a decade).

But Iran has a very advanced ballistic missles industry that, as a military spokesman of the IRI said "manufactures bombs the same way it can manufacture books." It could cause inmense, borderline fatal damage to Israel as well as tens of thousands of bystanding US troops in Southern Iraq. So I understand and generally agree with what you're saying. I'm just not willing to say that it's just another country like Cuba or Lybia, and that the US has no reason to attack.

No offense sir, you sound smart, but this is nothing but drivel. If Iran or North Korea even reached towards the button to launch a nuclear weapon (if they ever have them) the entire country would be blown away before it ever reached the high airspace. Iran has a hundred US and Israeli nukes aimed at it right now. Iran getting nuclear weapons (legally I might add) would do absolutely nothing to affect any US or close US ally's safety. Don't believe the fearmongering, that's what got us into Iraq.

I hope if we ever sign up to fight for war with Iran you're the first to sign up for it. Don't take after all the pro Iraq war chickenhawks like the voting neoconservatives, Dick Cheney, Bill O'Reilly, George Bush, Sean Hannity, etc who do nothing but cower under beds and cheer on others to die in their place when they want war to happen.

I don't think Iran would use a nuke, or even really build one... but they definitely are after the capability

their conventional ballistic missiles are enough of a threat, and their actions demonstrate a desire and willingness to interfere with the broader US plan for the middle east.

Now, that doesn't mean that it's not rational or even moral for the Iranians to do this, as it is their interests that may be threatened. But ultimately, as much as politicians may want to market it, war is seldom between good and evil. It's usually between two flawed governments with conflicting interests.

I would suit up to fight the regime, any day and at any time. I'm Iranian and for me it would feel almost like a jew getting a chance to fight Hitler. Sadly, I'm shit at the military, but maybe they could use a logistics officer or a translator. But I realize war with Iran is unwinnable unless the entire country is nuked back to the stone age. And that's not something I support, nor really the death of civilians and innocent US soldiers. I just want to make the point that Iran is far more dangerous (and not because of nukes) than the other "axis of evil" countries because of its geo-strategic position and absolutely belligerent behaviour. With nuclear capability, however, it would have to be accepted and respected like China... but the Islamic Republic is no China...

So you would sign up to fight a war and put your life on the line in a war that's unwinnable that would result in hundreds of thousands of your people being killed?


What is it that I'm missing?

 

[stonewall]

Alright well here comes a line by line disection of all the people who responded to me

"RhodesScholar"- I said first that Iran's government is trash. I know how neoconservatives ignore what they don't wanna hear and put in bold things that aren't even said, so you haven't done anything to change the stereotype. Ahmadinejad's job is a lot like Obama's, doesn't have much power but everyone on all sides thinks his speeches and rhetoric are a big deal. The Federal Reserve and Corporate America run this country not the government, The Supreme ruling body runs Iran not Ahmadinejad or any other elected post in Iran.

elvis3577- Is it legal to fund Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden/Al Qaeda? That's what we did, they killed a lot more people than Hezbollah has.

Annie-imagine if a country ended all democracy in the US like we did in Iran in 1953, the citizens would've been in the right to send over a million suicide bombers for us destroying their country. A simple little takeover of an embassy and holding hostages? Yawn

Stonewall- what defines "aggressive"? War starting? Killing? Country destroying? Democracy ending? Nuke building? Weapons selling? I'd like to hear this.


God how I wish the people beating the war drum would go and grab their tin hats and rifles and do it themselves. The number of cowards who talk big and do nothing grows exponentially every year in this country.

I do not want the U.S. to do anything about Iran. If it were my call I would leave Iraq and Afghanistan and the Persian Gulf.

I would much rather do all of those things than I would attack Iran.

And, we should do those things regardless of Iran.

Countries in this world should get away from the idea that America is the one to call when trouble arises and Americans should rid ourselves of that same idea. We provide a false sense of security and nations do not have to act in a responsible manner.

That being said, Iran is a very dangerous nation. It has spread terror all through the Middle East, Pakistan, Europe, the Americas.

It blames us for a coup that the Iranians themselves led. No American overthrew the Iranian government. So what if we wanted it to happen or backed the thing? We want a lot of things. Most we do not get. We back a coup right now... are we getting that? I don't see it.

 

[BasicGreatGuy]

Iran hasn't attacked us. If they were to ever try, turn their country into glass.

 

[rhodescholar]

Iran hasn't attacked us. If they were to ever try, turn their country into glass.

How do you know they didn't attack us?

Was it because the back of your Hulk comic didn't say so?

 

[Cold Fusion38]

Rhoad Kill. If Iran wanted to attack us they certainly wouldn't do it themselves and the MOST definately wouldn't use a nuke that could be traced back to them. You are just RANTING about your BS paranoia. ANY country that does not act EXACTELY like us should be attacked by your "logic". How about this.....How about we stop meddeling in the affairs of EVERY OTHER COUNTRY ON EARTH. How about we say hey Israel you are on your own......Don't start no shit won't BE no shit!

 

[Cold Fusion38]

Rhoad Kill your paranoia is really quite desterbing. Get help......Sometimes a "Black helicopter is just a black helicopter.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

Whe the USA has been in bed with almost EVERY dictator in the past century have is it we are so surprised when the rest of the world questions our motives and wants to kill us?

 

[BasicGreatGuy]

Iran hasn't attacked us. If they were to ever try, turn their country into glass.

How do you know they didn't attack us?

Was it because the back of your Hulk comic didn't say so?

The sea monkeys ad on the back cover didn't mention anything about there being any attacks other than your constant attack on logic and civility.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

Until we as a nation quit trying to prop up BRUTAL dictators for our OWN SELFISH needs we will continue to face attacks both here and abroad. We need to be the leader in DIPLOMACY not in going half way across the world and shock and awe our way to peace in a region that has been at war for TWO MILLENIA!

 

[rhodescholar]

Until we as a nation quit trying to prop up BRUTAL dictators for our OWN SELFISH needs we will continue to face attacks both here and abroad. We need to be the leader in DIPLOMACY not in going half way across the world and shock and awe our way to peace in a region that has been at war for TWO MILLENIA!

It would be nice if a few adult thinkers walked into this forum, right now I don't see any besides myself.

CF, you're the president, here's your options in the Middle East:

A-you can support a secular dictator, who will allow your nation to continue functioning by continuing to sell oil to you, will accept and work with your policy requests, but is a repressive leader who crushes dissent. The leader is not hegemonistic, and only wants to stay in power and keep his family wealthy.

B-you can allow the only opposition that exists in arab muslim countries to take over, which is the islamist party, which will not sell oil to the US, thereby devastating your economy, will use terrorism throughout the region to further its policy of islamic expansion, and will operate as a repressive, theocratic dictatorship that oppresses its people.

You can choose option B, but that will destroy your country, raising prices thru the roof, and will probably lead to you getting voted out of office, if not impeached. You will also lose support of any allies in the mideast, and will ensure further regional wars.

How does option B sound?

 

[Shogun]

It would be nice if a few adult thinkers walked into this forum, right now I don't see any besides myself.


IRONY ALERT! IRONY ALERT! IRONY ALERT!

 

[Sunni Man]

Until we as a nation quit trying to prop up BRUTAL dictators for our OWN SELFISH needs we will continue to face attacks both here and abroad. We need to be the leader in DIPLOMACY not in going half way across the world and shock and awe our way to peace in a region that has been at war for TWO MILLENIA!

It would be nice if a few adult thinkers walked into this forum, right now I don't see any besides myself.

Still hanging on to your deluded psychotic sense of self importance RhodesStupid

 

[rhodescholar]

As expected. the 2 house monkeys avoid my post, and focus entirely on the irrelevent.

Why is it that far left psychotics are so given to avoiding the facts?

 

[HUGGY]

As expected. the 2 house monkeys avoid my post, and focus entirely on the irrelevent.

Why is it that far left psychotics are so given to avoiding the facts?

Rhodent Scholar,

You made my list...you can stop talking crazy. ...or not.

 

[jillian]

It would be nice if a few adult thinkers walked into this forum, right now I don't see any besides myself.

CF, you're the president, here's your options in the Middle East:

A-you can support a secular dictator, who will allow your nation to continue functioning by continuing to sell oil to you, will accept and work with your policy requests, but is a repressive leader who crushes dissent. The leader is not hegemonistic, and only wants to stay in power and keep his family wealthy.

B-you can allow the only opposition that exists in arab muslim countries to take over, which is the islamist party, which will not sell oil to the US, thereby devastating your economy, will use terrorism throughout the region to further its policy of islamic expansion, and will operate as a repressive, theocratic dictatorship that oppresses its people.

You can choose option B, but that will destroy your country, raising prices thru the roof, and will probably lead to you getting voted out of office, if not impeached. You will also lose support of any allies in the mideast, and will ensure further regional wars.

How does option B sound?

Isn't there an option which assures we have people we can deal wtih while not invading foreign countries? Or another way to keep Iran from going nuclear than turning it into glass as one of the posters said?

I'm thinking that while I understand your objectives, there may be a more palatable way to get at them.

Iran is particularly interesting since the powers that be hate us and our interests, while the younger people who have been the most vocal dissenters will, one day, if we stay out of their way, be allies.

You can't address whatever interests we have in the middle east without acknowledging the very real internal politics in Iran.

I think those are the issues you're addressing.

 

[Shogun]

As expected. the 2 house monkeys avoid my post, and focus entirely on the irrelevent.

Why is it that far left psychotics are so given to avoiding the facts?

yea, whatever you say "Adult Thinker"!





BEEEEP BEEEEEP BEEEEEP! Adult thinking ahead!


How do you know they didn't attack us?

Was it because the back of your Hulk comic didn't say so?

 

[rhodescholar]

As expected. the 2 house monkeys avoid my post, and focus entirely on the irrelevent.

Why is it that far left psychotics are so given to avoiding the facts?

yea, whatever you say "Adult Thinker"!





BEEEEP BEEEEEP BEEEEEP! Adult thinking ahead!


How do you know they didn't attack us?

Was it because the back of your Hulk comic didn't say so?

I can see how noone agreed with you when you declared yourself the most creative flamer here, perhaps the only flaming you are good at is when you wear your transvestite outfit and scope for men at your local truck stop.

 

[rhodescholar]

Isn't there an option which assures we have people we can deal wtih while not invading foreign countries? Or another way to keep Iran from going nuclear than turning it into glass as one of the posters said?

I'm thinking that while I understand your objectives, there may be a more palatable way to get at them.

Iran is particularly interesting since the powers that be hate us and our interests, while the younger people who have been the most vocal dissenters will, one day, if we stay out of their way, be allies.

You can't address whatever interests we have in the middle east without acknowledging the very real internal politics in Iran.

I think those are the issues you're addressing.

I wish there was a third option in the arab states, who unlike iran, do not have any civic organizations of size outside the islamist groups and the bloated state bureaucracy.

This is why for 60 years the US chose to work with the secular dictatorships, it was either that or the islamists, and given that they are the scum of humanity, left the US no choice.

Iran does have a more educated population - and a reasonably sized middle class - but they are the exception sadly, not the rule.

 

[Shogun]

As expected. the 2 house monkeys avoid my post, and focus entirely on the irrelevent.

Why is it that far left psychotics are so given to avoiding the facts?

yea, whatever you say "Adult Thinker"!





BEEEEP BEEEEEP BEEEEEP! Adult thinking ahead!


How do you know they didn't attack us?

Was it because the back of your Hulk comic didn't say so?

I can see how noone agreed with you when you declared yourself the most creative flamer here, perhaps the only flaming you are good at is when you wear your transvestite outfit and scope for men at your local truck stop.

... yea.. as if that thread really meant something....


Speaking of local reputations...... Do you notice how you've hit the lofty status that Charles Bass enjoys around here, nutjob? Maybe you can go drink the blood of some goyim child instead of throwing another tantrum around here, eh?

 

[Cold Fusion38]

I tweak the parameters of the test so I can win...."I don't like the no win scenario."