Time For Transparency On Debt Ceiling

[boedicca]

Indeed. As Geithner recently noted, the objective is to keep Government from shrinking.

iirc he never publicly stated that Boe, big dif...

do you think he is that ill spoken to incite riots here?

if you'd like to argue his insinuation OF the concept, then you might have some takers here

He said it in front of a House Committee.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4bYNkXu5qs]YouTube - ‪Rep. Renee Ellmers Questions Timothy Geithner At Business Hearing‬‏[/ame]

 

[The T]

We need to know what it's about, for US and our creditors.

We all need to know what the issues are about and what is at stake:

Sen. Sessions challenges Obama to make debt-ceiling talks public - TheHill.com

Since WE the people are their employers, and it's our money, our futures they're playing with? It seems to me that the people should have a massive say on this matter.

It's not a direct democracy, we elected those folks, for good or bad. However, the people certainly should let their representatives know their positions, if enough agree with yours, perhaps it will make a difference. In any case, pay attention and let it influence your decisions in 2012.

Precisely. How many actually do? And how many Representatives actually listen, and act on the accord of what their constituients have said?

Witness Obamacare.

 

[candycorn]

Since WE the people are their employers, and it's our money, our futures they're playing with? It seems to me that the people should have a massive say on this matter.

We have the same say we've always had...elections. Gee, if more than 4 out of 10 voted and got involved...we may just have a government that works.

We get the government we deserve.

See Obamacare, that depite very loud objections from the people themselves? It was forced upon us. This government is playing with fire.

Nobody forced anything....those who supported it were in the majority. And some of those who voted for it paid the price such as Arlen Specter. Same way it's always worked;

The internet is a megaphone for people who have been nicked by reality. They've always bellyached about their supposed injustice; only now instead of the local paper, there are nationwide message boards so the minority has a more vocal stance.

I'm sure NOBODY likes taxes of any kind. I know I don't. Yet the taxes and feels have been going up since the beginning of time. Were they "forcing that upon us". Yes.

Same old same old.

 

[DontBeStupid]

The Iraq War was forced on us too and you guys seemed ok with that. How about you accept Obamacare and we call it even?

As for the talks, I'm sure Sessions wants them public because then people would see the Dems talking about increasing spending and increasing taxes and then the GOP could scream and cry and whine and try to make the Dems look like devils, even though tax increases and spending is exactly what we need right now.

As for the vote, the GOP is grand standing, nothing more. They all voted for the Ryan budget which adds $6T to our debt within the next decade. If they don't raise the ceiling they block themselves. They're not that dumb.

 

[bripat9643]

Indeed. As Geithner recently noted, the objective is to keep Government from shrinking. We can easily handle the $200B or so of interest payment on the debt by Shrinking The Government in other areas.

One thing is clear: DemoRATs are doing everything in their power to avoid spending cuts of any kind. The stimulus was intended to be a permanent increase in the size of government, not temporary as they advertized it. It was a naked power grab. The RATs wanted to permanently increase the government's take of our economic output.

 

[DontBeStupid]

The stimulus was intended to be a permanent increase in the size of government, not temporary as they advertized it. It was a naked power grab.

Then why did spending go down from 2009 to 2010?

 

[The T]

We have the same say we've always had...elections. Gee, if more than 4 out of 10 voted and got involved...we may just have a government that works.

We get the government we deserve.

See Obamacare, that depite very loud objections from the people themselves? It was forced upon us. This government is playing with fire.

Nobody forced anything....those who supported it were in the majority. And some of those who voted for it paid the price such as Arlen Specter. Same way it's always worked;

The internet is a megaphone for people who have been nicked by reality. They've always bellyached about their supposed injustice; only now instead of the local paper, there are nationwide message boards so the minority has a more vocal stance.

I'm sure NOBODY likes taxes of any kind. I know I don't. Yet the taxes and feels have been going up since the beginning of time. Were they "forcing that upon us". Yes.

Same old same old.

Yes they did. Otherwise? WHY the thousands of waivers? Those in the majority didn't care a WIT of what the polls stated or their webpages being shut down, or the switchboards being inundated against it.

Interesting the Unions and the AARP had to apply for waivers...wanna take a SWAG as to why...even though they were behind it all the way?

And WHY aren't any more waivers being issued?

You aren't too good at this are you?

 

[DontBeStupid]

Yes they did. Otherwise? WHY the thousands of waivers? Those in the majority didn't care a WIT of what the polls stated or their webpages being shut down, or the switchboards being inundated against it.

Interesting the Unions and the AARP had to apply for waivers...wanna take a SWAG as to why...even though they were behind it all the way?

And WHY aren't any more waivers being issued?

You aren't too good at this are you?

The waivers are to give states and unions more time to implement the changes. They aren't permanent exemptions from the law.

Oh wait! Did you think they were permanent?? Oh ... wow ...

 

[Trajan]

It appears Clayton some folks here need a reminder, or wake up call, so time for a 'recent history' lesson;

flashback- 2009 April 3 ( note the date) budget for 2010 approved, the house ala Mrs. Pelois saw the budget breaking out like this in the out years;

The House budget envisions a $1.2 trillion deficit for 2010, forecasting a steady decline through 2014 when the deficit is projected at $598 billion. The Senate budget projects a somewhat lower deficit of $507.6 billion in 2014.

yes you read that right.....

Congress Approves Obama's $3.6 Trillion Budget - WSJ.com



Flashback feb 2010-

Congress failed to pass a budget for 2011 and instead passed a series of short-term resolutions that keep funding for most departments at 2010 levels. The administration official cited uncertainty about 2011 funding as one reason for the delay in the 2012 budget proposal. Most recently, Congress passed a resolution that continues funding, but only until 4th March 2011.

FT.com / US / Politics & Foreign policy - Obama to submit 2012 budget one week late



Now, this year they spent from feb. to april trying to corral a budget for the balance of the year that is to craft a budget for the year we are in becasue they punted last year, and they fought every cent calling for any reduction, and they settled on 38 Billion.....we borrow approx 3 billion a day but hey, thats all they would surrender.

Obama owed the country a budget in Feb. He put out proposals, frameworks, remarks etc etc ...from his state of the union speech on, even the NY times wapo etc. called it an abrogation of leadership and a punt.

He has YET to submit one.

We now have a deadline for; a debt ceiling plan, we need a budget for 2012 and a deficit reduction plan, we have none.

This is ALL his and his parties doing, the severe time constraints , they use now as a cudgel are their own doing, no one else's, they had a reconciliation budgetary majority from day one as Obama was sworn in and had for 9 months a supra majority from 2009 to 10 to pass what they pleased as well.

Now that they blew their majority, its cry me a river time, the Republicans are 'intractable' etc etc etc ....

His highness has apparently deigned ot come down from Olympus ( well, get off air force one and the money circuit) to finally, get involved in the talks...jay carney explained it thus;

The goal is "to discuss the status of the negotiations to find common ground on a balanced approach to deficit reduction," White House spokesman Jay Carney said.

Obama to get involved in debt ceiling talks - The Oval: Tracking the Obama presidency

I see, so they are going to discuss their 'approach'.....I see.

Just wtf has he been doing, all this time? really?

 

[Trajan]

The stimulus was intended to be a permanent increase in the size of government, not temporary as they advertized it. It was a naked power grab.

Then why did spending go down from 2009 to 2010?

what in the hell are you talking about?

 

[boedicca]

The Iraq War was forced on us too and you guys seemed ok with that. How about you accept Obamacare and we call it even?

As for the talks, I'm sure Sessions wants them public because then people would see the Dems talking about increasing spending and increasing taxes and then the GOP could scream and cry and whine and try to make the Dems look like devils, even though tax increases and spending is exactly what we need right now.

As for the vote, the GOP is grand standing, nothing more. They all voted for the Ryan budget which adds $6T to our debt within the next decade. If they don't raise the ceiling they block themselves. They're not that dumb.

As ObamaCare is a permanent entitlement that will cost orders of magnitude more than a temporary war, that is hardly an Even Steven deal.

 

[Foxfyre]

We seem to have a President far more likely to e photographed playing golf than doing anything like - oh, I don't know - his job?

That makes it difficult to believe he is really concerned about debts, deficits, and such as that.

We have a First Lady, her two girls, and a large entourage touring Africa on our dime despite the fact that the new unemployment claims have exceeded 400,000 for weeks now and the housing market slides further into crisis.

That makes it difficult to believe she/they are really concerned about Americans in severe financial crisis.

We have dozens of Republican and Democrat congress people, their families, all with large entourages, touring Europe to 'inspect America's interests' this week and next week.

That makes it difficult to believe a debt ceiling is of any real concern to any of them.

When our fearless leaders start treating the people's money with the same respect we would treat it if we were allowed to keep it, I will choose to believe they can jolly well eliminate ALL unnecessary spending before they raise the debt ceiling.

We have not had a Congress in 60 years that didn't spend every dime it had and then some and not one thought it important to put any excess funds back into the treasury and not spend them on something.

The only way we are going to get a handle on the deficit and debt is to limit what Congress and the President is allowed to spend, not give them more to spend.

 

[Annie]

"We might as well stake it out publicly to see what the disagreements are," Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-Ala.) said Friday in an interview with The Hill. "I believe Majority Leader [Harry] Reid and the president desperately are working not to have to reveal their vision for the future, financially. Their vision will include, from what glimpses we've seen, an advocacy for more taxes and less spending cuts."

What ‘glimpses’ is Sessions referring to? He needs to either cite his sources or not engage in subjective, partisan speculation.

What’s of concern is republicans will be addressing this serious issue from a position of dogma, not fact. And the right is willing to risk our economic well-being for partisan gain.

Whatever the democrats’ failings and motives, they at least understand allowing the nation to default would be an act of serious administrative negligence.

Raising the debt ceiling doesn’t mean the deficit won’t be addressed, it means Congress is engaged in responsible governance. The right’s rush to reduce the deficit – and hold the Nation’s financial well-being hostage to do it – is politically motivated, having nothing to do with what’s best for the country.

Well good on the Democrats then. None of them voted to approve the Obama budget, how long ago? They refuse to address, amend, or provide an alternative to either Obama's or Ryan's, other than fear mongering. They have until August, hadn't they ought to get busy?

 

[auditor0007]

If Congress is waiting to increase the national debt ceiling until they have hammered out ways of eliminating the deficiet entirely, we will surely default on our debt payments and never be able to solve our economic problems.

And it is looking more and more to me like that is exactly what some people in Congress are planning on allowing to happen.

Let's see; we default on our debt, the value of the dollar drops much further, and OPEC moves to the Euro as their standard payment for oil. Gasoline prices hit $10.00 per gallon within one year. Just speculation.

 

[The Rabbi]

If Congress is waiting to increase the national debt ceiling until they have hammered out ways of eliminating the deficiet entirely, we will surely default on our debt payments and never be able to solve our economic problems.

And it is looking more and more to me like that is exactly what some people in Congress are planning on allowing to happen.

Let's see; we default on our debt, the value of the dollar drops much further, and OPEC moves to the Euro as their standard payment for oil. Gasoline prices hit $10.00 per gallon within one year. Just speculation.

You're forgetting the plague of locusts o'er the land.
More likely we default temporarily in order to get real spending cuts that will go towards restoring the ability of the gov't to pay its bills. The dollar moves up, gas prices come down, and the economy grows.