Tim Tebow Super Bowl Ad May Be Based On Falsehood

[geauxtohell]

The fact is that there are two parts of the "pro-choice" movement.

You have the people who profit from abortion, Planned Parenthood, Gloria Allred, NOW, NARAL, Emily's List etc. These are the people who could almost be termed Pro-abortion.

But, then you have the vast majority of pro-choice people. These are the people who do not profit from the procedure but look at the issue and whether or not they would ever consider the option of abortion, believe that the decision lies solely with the pregnant mother and that this is not something that the government should interfere with in any way whatsoever.

To claim that this second group is "pro-abortion" is not only wrong but detrimental to the cause of defending life. It is no less wrong than claiming that the pro-life movement is "anti-choice".

Immie

I see it as a simple matter of a patient's autonomy over their own health. Patient's have the right to make choices over matters involving their own health, even if they are detrimental.

I would expand that to physician assisted suicide, based on the Oregon model, which I believe should be a patient's choice as well.

That would put you as a member of the second group.

Immie

So be it. I am less concerned with the semantics of the issue and more concerned with the pragmatism behind the patient autonomy movement.

 

[geauxtohell]

How much is Focus on the Family paying for this ad?

On that note, if you ever want to see something obscene, check out the FOTF complex in Colorado Springs.

A lot of mouths could be fed with the money spent on building that monstrosity.

 

[Zoom-boing]

An egg by itself is nothing more than a potential something.

A sperm by itself is nothing more than a motile cell with potential to be something.

Right sperm meets right egg? It starts to divide and form more cells. At this time as well, it is STILL NOT A HUMAN.

At around the 40 day mark, the cells finally form a network of connections, and your nervous system is formed. At that time, the embryo is now capable of feeling pain.

THAT is when it's "human".

A fully formed human? Nope. But it is human (if it isn't human then what is it?) and it is life (if it wasn't life then abortion wouldn't be needed to destroy it).

So because it's not a fully formed human capable of feeling pain . . . it isn't human at all?

If it doesn't have a nervous system, it doesn't have a brain.

If it doesn't have a brain, it's not capable of self will and free thought.

If it's not capable of self will and free thought, it doesn't have a soul.

If it doesn't have a soul, it's not human.

Is a brand new baby, fresh out of the oven, capable of self will and free thought? No they haven't grown (and won't for many, many years) to the point of being able to do this. So to equate not being capable of self will and free thought to not having a soul to not being human . . . . sorry, not buying it.

Who is to say when the soul enters the picture? What if you don't believe that humans have souls? Are souls what make us human?

I don't know how to see what grows inside a woman during pregnancy as anything other than human life. A developing human, yes . . . but human and life, none the less.

 

[Immanuel]

I see it as a simple matter of a patient's autonomy over their own health. Patient's have the right to make choices over matters involving their own health, even if they are detrimental.

I would expand that to physician assisted suicide, based on the Oregon model, which I believe should be a patient's choice as well.

That would put you as a member of the second group.

Immie

So be it. I am less concerned with the semantics of the issue and more concerned with the pragmatism behind the patient autonomy movement.

I have found it difficult to argue with the second group lately. I realize they are not "for" abortion and in fact view the issue of abortion in much the way that I view many other issues. That being that it simply is not the place of the government to make those decisions for the people.

The one disagreement I have with group two, is that I view the most important purpose of the government is to defend life and liberty of its citizens.

Immie

 

[geauxtohell]

I am opposed to abortions because having a baby is not "convenient" at the time. If Tebows mother had economic issues and decided to have the baby anyway, the ad would make sense.
In a case where the mothers health is at risk and she gambles and wins, we should not get ads telling other mothers they should make the same choice because the baby might become a Heisman winning QB.

I totally agree. To me, that is the issue. I can't figure out why the people who are so offended over it have missed this simple point.

This is about telling women to ignore medical advice and take a risk with their own life, not about shunning "elective" abortions.

 

[Queen]

Well I still don't understand the controversy. Why do the pro-CHOICE people flip the fuck out whenever someone CHOOSES life? Isn't that one of the "options" discussed at Planned Parenthood? Or maybe not...

I don't understand why the anti-choice people have to use lies to make their point.

Your post is a lie. No one's flipping out because someone chose life.

People are flipping out because the story in the ad is a lie. Abortion is illegal in the Phillipines so doctors don't recommend it. They can't perform it. Do you think they would send a patient to a back alley illegal abortion or give her a coathanger?

Please.

I guess you liar lovers approve of the right wing Christian lies because you really do love lies. You tell them yourselves too.

Maybe that explains it. You righties really do love the lies.

 

[geauxtohell]

In a case where the mothers health is at risk and she gambles and wins, we should not get ads telling other mothers they should make the same choice because the baby might become a Heisman winning QB.

I read your earlier post that said much the same thing and could not think of a reply. Thinking about it now, I would say that to some extent maybe it is not a message that should not be heard for the reason you listed.

We all assume that Mrs. Tebow's life was in grave danger (and maybe it was) because a doctor in the Philippines said so. Doctors are not always right. It appears that in Mrs Tebow's case the doctor was wrong.

That being said, if the message is "don't listen to your doctor... he is lying to you" that could lead to the deaths of women. I for one do not want to see that happen.

Immie

The Doctors were obviously wrong in this instance. That being said, the statement here is absolutely "don't listen to your doctor".

Tebow's mother already had four children and was a Chrisian missionary. She would have never considered the abortion if it had not been a medical emergency.

 

[CurveLight]

You're trying to equate the unborn with the born. If you order scrambled eggs for breakfast are you asking for dancing chickens?

Are you saying that what grows inside of a woman isn't human? Isn't life?

I think in another thread, it was CurveLight that wrote that he would agree that a fetus was human life.

Sorry, CL, if I am mistaken that it was you that said that. Not attempting to put words in your mouth.

Immie

That's pretty close. I basically gave carte blanche for anyone to use any term they want. For whatever reason some assume I deny it is a human rising so they think if they keep pointing that out they have accomplished something.

 

[geauxtohell]

That would put you as a member of the second group.

Immie

So be it. I am less concerned with the semantics of the issue and more concerned with the pragmatism behind the patient autonomy movement.

I have found it difficult to argue with the second group lately. I realize they are not "for" abortion and in fact view the issue of abortion in much the way that I view many other issues. That being that it simply is not the place of the government to make those decisions for the people.

The one disagreement I have with group two, is that I view the most important purpose of the government is to defend life and liberty of its citizens.

Immie

And I deem it as inappropriate for other people to try and insert themselves into another person's decision making process over their own health and body.

As it stands, late term abortion is illegal. I deem that as reasonable.

 

[CurveLight]

Exactly. And Tim's mother chose to carry her pregnancy to term, even knowing that it would risk both their lives.

Abortion doesn't get dibs on the pro-choice term but from people's reaction to this commercial it sure seems as if pro-choice = pro-abortion. Otherwise, why would they be so upset at her choice?

Name two people who are upset with her choice.

Her choice was to carry Tim to term and they're putting an advocacy ad on CBS about it - and her choice - and people are upset over that. CBS urged to scrap anti-abortion Super Bowl ad featuring Tebow - SI.com - 2008 NFL Super Bowl

That doesn't show anyone who is upset with her choice. That article is about a protest regarding a tv ad. They are two different issues.

 

[Immanuel]

Are you saying that what grows inside of a woman isn't human? Isn't life?

I think in another thread, it was CurveLight that wrote that he would agree that a fetus was human life.

Sorry, CL, if I am mistaken that it was you that said that. Not attempting to put words in your mouth.

Immie

That's pretty close. I basically gave carte blanche for anyone to use any term they want. For whatever reason some assume I deny it is a human rising so they think if they keep pointing that out they have accomplished something.

I was certain it was pretty close to the idea you used, but didn't want to search for the quote to find it.

Immie

 

[geauxtohell]

Well I still don't understand the controversy. Why do the pro-CHOICE people flip the fuck out whenever someone CHOOSES life? Isn't that one of the "options" discussed at Planned Parenthood? Or maybe not...

I don't understand why the anti-choice people have to use lies to make their point.

Your post is a lie. No one's flipping out because someone chose life.

People are flipping out because the story in the ad is a lie. Abortion is illegal in the Phillipines so doctors don't recommend it. They can't perform it. Do you think they would send a patient to a back alley illegal abortion or give her a coathanger?

Please.

I guess you liar lovers approve of the right wing Christian lies because you really do love lies. You tell them yourselves too.

Maybe that explains it. You righties really do love the lies.

I doubt it was illegal if medically indicated. If it were, that would make the law draconian and dangerous.

The real issue is that Tebow's mom is telling people to ignore medical advice. It worked out in her case. She was lucky.

 

[Xenophon]

Planned parenthood should counter with an add showing Stalin's mother, saying 'why didn't I abort the lil bastard?'

 

[Queen]

How much is Focus on the Family paying for this ad?

On that note, if you ever want to see something obscene, check out the FOTF complex in Colorado Springs.

A lot of mouths could be fed with the money spent on building that monstrosity.

Focus on the Family is paying for the ACORN pimp's defense!

That's how they focus on the family.

 

[Immanuel]

So be it. I am less concerned with the semantics of the issue and more concerned with the pragmatism behind the patient autonomy movement.

I have found it difficult to argue with the second group lately. I realize they are not "for" abortion and in fact view the issue of abortion in much the way that I view many other issues. That being that it simply is not the place of the government to make those decisions for the people.

The one disagreement I have with group two, is that I view the most important purpose of the government is to defend life and liberty of its citizens.

Immie

And I deem it as inappropriate for other people to try and insert themselves into another person's decision making process over their own health and body.

As it stands, late term abortion is illegal. I deem that as reasonable.

I understand your point of view... just don't agree with it.

That being said, I'm tired of the two "middle grounds" group two in this case and those of us who are "pro-life" but don't profit from the "pro-life" propaganda but simply believe in defending human life at all costs allowing the lobbyists to fight this battle for us.

If we leave it up to them, we will never arrive at a solution to the issue.

Immie

 

[CurveLight]

Are you saying that what grows inside of a woman isn't human? Isn't life?

No that isn't what I'm saying. I'm saying you're trying to equate the unborn with the born. If you order scrambled eggs for breakfast are you asking for dancing chickens?
What is your answer?

Sure sounds like that's what you're saying to me, you want to go with because the chicken isn't dancing it's not really a chicken. I'm not equating the unborn with the born, I'm equating the unborn with being human life. When an abortion happens that human life is terminated, ended, destroyed.

I will comment when you respect the conversation. Kind of silly to ignore simple questions and put words in others mouths and expect a response.

 

[Queen]

Well I still don't understand the controversy. Why do the pro-CHOICE people flip the fuck out whenever someone CHOOSES life? Isn't that one of the "options" discussed at Planned Parenthood? Or maybe not...

I don't understand why the anti-choice people have to use lies to make their point.

Your post is a lie. No one's flipping out because someone chose life.

People are flipping out because the story in the ad is a lie. Abortion is illegal in the Phillipines so doctors don't recommend it. They can't perform it. Do you think they would send a patient to a back alley illegal abortion or give her a coathanger?

Please.

I guess you liar lovers approve of the right wing Christian lies because you really do love lies. You tell them yourselves too.

Maybe that explains it. You righties really do love the lies.

I doubt it was illegal if medically indicated. If it were, that would make the law draconian and dangerous.

The real issue is that Tebow's mom is telling people to ignore medical advice. It worked out in her case. She was lucky.

Some of the illegal abortions women get in the Phillipines are by herbs. So yes, ingesting something to have an abortion is illegal there.

It didn't work out in her case, because she is obviously lying by saying a doctor suggested abortion in a country were abortion is completely and totally illegal.

Her story is a lie. She isn't lucky, she's a liar.

 

[geauxtohell]

How much is Focus on the Family paying for this ad?

On that note, if you ever want to see something obscene, check out the FOTF complex in Colorado Springs.

A lot of mouths could be fed with the money spent on building that monstrosity.

Focus on the Family is paying for the ACORN pimp's defense!

That's how they focus on the family.

While I support their right to free speech and assembly, I find FOTF to be one of the most obnoxious groups in this country.

Let's not forget that Jimmy D advocated for Iraq based on St. Augustine's "just war" argument.

I've also never heard them condemn the death penalty.

"Pro-life" my ass. I guess brown lives don't care.

At least the catholic church is consistent.

 

[Zoom-boing]

That's pretty close. I basically gave carte blanche for anyone to use any term they want. For whatever reason some assume I deny it is a human rising so they think if they keep pointing that out they have accomplished something.

If you're referring to me you are mistaken. I asked you if you meant by your scrambled eggs/dancing chickens that what grows inside a woman isn't human life. Your response was no but you offered no further explanation, as noted below.

You're trying to equate the unborn with the born. If you order scrambled eggs for breakfast are you asking for dancing chickens?

Are you saying that what grows inside of a woman isn't human? Isn't life?

No that isn't what I'm saying. I'm saying you're trying to equate the unborn with the born. If you order scrambled eggs for breakfast are you asking for dancing chickens?
What is your answer?

Are you saying that what grows inside of a woman isn't human? Isn't life?

No that isn't what I'm saying. I'm saying you're trying to equate the unborn with the born. If you order scrambled eggs for breakfast are you asking for dancing chickens?
What is your answer?

Sure sounds like that's what you're saying to me, you want to go with because the chicken isn't dancing it's not really a chicken. I'm not equating the unborn with the born, I'm equating the unborn with being human life. When an abortion happens that human life is terminated, ended, destroyed.

 

[geauxtohell]

I don't understand why the anti-choice people have to use lies to make their point.

Your post is a lie. No one's flipping out because someone chose life.

People are flipping out because the story in the ad is a lie. Abortion is illegal in the Phillipines so doctors don't recommend it. They can't perform it. Do you think they would send a patient to a back alley illegal abortion or give her a coathanger?

Please.

I guess you liar lovers approve of the right wing Christian lies because you really do love lies. You tell them yourselves too.

Maybe that explains it. You righties really do love the lies.

I doubt it was illegal if medically indicated. If it were, that would make the law draconian and dangerous.

The real issue is that Tebow's mom is telling people to ignore medical advice. It worked out in her case. She was lucky.

Some of the illegal abortions women get in the Phillipines are by herbs. So yes, ingesting something to have an abortion is illegal there.

It didn't work out in her case, because she is obviously lying by saying a doctor suggested abortion in a country were abortion is completely and totally illegal.

Her story is a lie. She isn't lucky, she's a liar.

"Pennyroyal Tea".................

I wouldn't be so quick to call her a liar. There are medical indications for termination of a pregnancy. Any Doctor would admit that, and I doubt the laws of the country wouldn't make an exception for the life of the mother.