Three things about Islam

[Kalam]

I firmly believe that all of your quotes are accurate...

Of course you do.

I'll admit that you do a decent job of hiding your inability to think critically. It's statements like this that expose you for what you really are.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I could post three videos almost identical to the one in the original post regarding the Talmud from the anti-zionist crowd.

Here's a pretty good suggestion:

Mind your own damn business and let people practice whatever sick or twisted religion they please.

If they commit a crime. Convicted them and punish them accordingly.

There you go.

What if the sick and twisted way they want to practice their religion involves strapping you to a table and using you to incubate snakes? Should I still mind my own business and let them do whatever they want? After all, they haven't committed a crime unless they actually do it, and talking about it is perfectly legal.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I firmly believe that all of your quotes are accurate...

Of course you do.

I'll admit that you do a decent job of hiding your inability to think critically. It's statements like this that expose you for what you really are.

This from a person who refuses to discuss the parts of his religion that prove that everything anyone says about it is true.

 

[JScott]

I cant believe some of you lead your lives by what one video says.

 

[Kalam]

I firmly believe that all of your quotes are accurate...

Of course you do.

I'll admit that you do a decent job of hiding your inability to think critically. It's statements like this that expose you for what you really are.

This from a person who refuses to discuss the parts of his religion that prove that everything anyone says about it is true.

Can I get that in English...?

 

[Kalam]

I cant believe some of you lead your lives by what one video says.

It was pointed out in the other thread that these people suffer from very serious cases of confirmation bias. They deserve our pity.

 

[Rezonator]

I cant believe some of you lead your lives by what one video says.

I have good news for you! You don't have to believe it, because nobody's doing that! Did you have a little nightmare or something? There, there.

I know what those nightmares can be like. Hell, I had one once where there were over a BILLION people living their lives entirely based on the hallucinations of one homicidal maniac that lived over a thousand years ago—and emulated everything he did! Now that's a nightmare, son.

Oh, wait...

 

[Rezonator]

Speaking of which...

I cant believe some of you lead your lives by what one video says.

It was pointed out in the other thread that these people suffer from very serious cases of confirmation bias. They deserve our pity.

Kalam, I asked you why you're a slave. You never answered me. Aren't you proud to be a slave? Please explain to me why you're a slave.

 

[PoliticalChic]

I don't generally consider questions couched in such scandalous hyperbole to be serious attempts at a rational discussion, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Once.

As for "having a plan," I don't feel any personal obligation to come up with a unified plan for effectively answering a declaration of war on the United States and the Constitution. I haven't even run, much less been elected.

In the far smaller sphere that I can realistically influence though, I'm doing everything I can to inform people, and to lift the discussion out of the mire of Muslim Brotherhood propaganda—the most vicious of which is that there are two different Islams, one "moderate, peaceful" and one "radical, extremist, fundamentalist," and other apologist bullshit.

It's a vicious fiction, and, funded by Saudi money, this poison has absolutely flooded the groundwater of knowledge and discussion. Nobody in the lamestream media can even mention Islam or Muslims without sticking one of the apologist propaganda adjectives in front of it, and every time it's done it's a lie. Every office and official at every level of our own government is propagating this fairy tale—on your dime. You cannot go into any thread about Islam anywhere in this or any other forum without running into this perverse mythology being used like a club to slam people over the head.

It utterly defeats any rational and realistic discussion of the facts at issue, because facts get fried in the heat generated by the raging conflict between these completely false and fictional dichotomies. That's the exact intention of having them. It is a textbook propaganda tool, and it was dreamed up by the Muslim Brotherhood with malice aforethought—along with other of their memes, like "bridge-building."

So that's my small part: trying in every way I can to supply facts, from the source documents, that prove the falsity of that propaganda tool. There is only one Islam. It has one goal: complete world domination, and complete eradication of all religions, all governments, to be replaced by an Islamic theocracy and Sharia law. That's the way it is. Believing in some fairy tale that there is some other "Islam" that's all peace and light and love and moderation is suicidal.

Islam has declared war on us. The faster we all come to grips with that fact, and force our officials to face it and admit it, the faster we as a nation actually can forge a realistic and effective plan for self-preservation.

What's your plan?

Oops...forgot my manners! Welcome to the board.

Thank you.



Let's.



I appreciate folks who value rational discussion. Does that qualify as a Mutual Admiration Society, or is a charter required?



I don't have the means—or at least the time—to verify or refute your assertion, but it doesn't really matter for two compelling reasons:

A. On any subject, relevant facts and maxims are often lost in a roiling sea of mere opinion, rhetoric, hyperbole, and outright lies. Any process that distills and condenses the relatively important and germane facts, and discards the slush, is not only beneficial, but necessary to rational analysis and discussion, and,

B. All such relevant facts and maxims always are worth repeating and reinforcing—especially in the face of concerted efforts to keep lies afloat and dominant.

So the relevant isn't always "the new." In fact, some of the most relevant data in this discussion are ~1400 years old, yet have had a staggering impact on freedom and human rights, and continue to do so right now.



We'll see.



A plan for what? You keep talking about "a plan," but don't say for what. A plan is useless without a defined goal in sight, so tell me specifically what you feel I should be proposing a plan for, and if I think it's a valid goal, I'll discuss possible plans toward achieving it.

Meanwhile, my own modest goal, and my plan for it, is to do everything I humanly can to supplant the current fictions—such as that there are two Islams, one "moderate" and one "radical," "extremist," "fundamentalist," whatever—with relevant facts that conclusively prove that there is one, and only one, Islam.

But I interrupted you. Please go on...



Please allow me to interrupt you again, because you've now brought up another crucial point that is fraught with fictions. Here are some very relevant and vitally important facts that have to be taken into account in even analyzing what the term "Muslim citizens" means:

"Bear in mind that every claim of privilege, whether that of blood or property is abolished . . . I reject all claims relating to life and property and all imaginary honors of the past, and declare them to be baseless . . . A Muslim is the brother of another Muslim and all the Muslims are brothers of one another and constitute one hand as against the non-Muslims. The blood of every one of them is equal to that of others and even the smallest among them can make a promise on behalf of others." —Muhammad, 630 A.D., at the occupation of Mecca

"The Believers are but a single brotherhood." —Quran 49:10

"A Muslim has no nationality except his belief." —Syed Qutb

"Islam wishes to destroy all states and governments anywhere on the face of the earth which are opposed to the ideology and program of Islam regardless of the country or the nation which rules it. The purpose of Islam is to set up a State on the basis of its own ideology and program." — Syed Abul A'ala Maududi
​

Now: "Muslim citizens" of what, exactly? The above quotes are taken from an article that is published in this forum, The Muslim Mosque: A State Within a State, which I include here by reference as though reproduced in full, and which I recommend to your close attention.

The point of the article is that Islam is a de facto international state not bound by geography—which geographical borders Islam itself disdains as mere manmade fictions—that its constitution is the Quran, and that it is self-ordained as supreme over all man-made laws and forms of government—including any and all "citizenship" laws, and including our own Constitution.

With those incontrovertible facts at hand, tell me exactly what you mean by the word "citizen." Then we'll talk.

Please continue:

b. The seductive nature of our culture

Let's keep my personal life out of this. Oh, wait: you meant immigration, didn't you? I'll wait for your definition of "citizen."

c. How your plan aligns with foreign, as well as domestic policies.

You've leap-frogged to a "plan" again, with no defined goal, but as to both foreign and domestic policies, a primary priority at a governmental level, in any sane goal or plan, would be to recognize Islam as a de jure international state, and deal with it as such.

And I'll look forward to your response.

1. "...So that's my small part: trying in every way I can to supply facts, from the source documents, that prove..."
My previous post explained why it is not necessary for you to "supply facts."

Without any reason to, you assume that most folks- at least most here on USMB, are lacking in sentience.
I tried to help you proceed beyond what has become the beating of this dead horse.

2. "...relevant facts and maxims are often lost in a roiling sea of mere opinion, rhetoric, hyperbole, and outright lies."
Have you seen such?
If you wish to reduce your audience to folks such as our misguided friend Kalem, then, by all means, continue to provide the documentation that most of us have seen and stipulate as correct...

3. "Meanwhile, my own modest goal, and my plan for it, is to do everything I humanly can to supplant the current fictions—such as that there are two Islams, one "moderate" and one "radical," "extremist," "fundamentalist," whatever—with relevant facts that conclusively prove that there is one, and only one, Islam."
Done.
So, if the efforts that you have clearly been willing to take on, are the end of your 'humanly' performed venture, consider same accomplished, and have a good day...

4. But if you wish to inspire thought and debate...continue with a 'plan.'

One which is based on reality, not the vacant "The point of the article is that Islam is a de facto international state not bound by geography—which geographical borders Islam itself disdains as mere manmade fictions—that its constitution is the Quran, and that it is self-ordained as supreme over all man-made laws and forms of government—including any and all "citizenship" laws, and including our own Constitution."

The degree to which a Muslim subscribes to the letter of the Q'ran, is willing to carry out the most inhuman of instructions, per enchiridion, is unknown.

Some may carry out only the most docile of sura, others may be inspired by the more vile.

You seem to insist that all will be of the latter rather than the former.

5. Many immigrants leave behind cultural restrictions that we in America would find abhorrent. This is the area that I have described as the seductive nature of western culture.
Those who do not, we have systems and institutions to deal with those.

6. I expect that, based on your posts, you are able to consider the spectrum of human behavior in this light, and might wish to offer a view based on this, rather than the most pessimistic scenarios.

a. A plan that might encourage assimilaton: restrictions on marrige between cousins. Or vetting of family brought into the country...
You might get quite a debate there...

In summary, I see potential for a discussion far more ratiocinative, which, I admit, I like to see on the board.

 

[PoliticalChic]

I firmly believe that all of your quotes are accurate...

Of course you do.

I'll admit that you do a decent job of hiding your inability to think critically. It's statements like this that expose you for what you really are.

Poor Kalam...

poor, poor Kalem.

Kind of painted yourself into the corner, huh?

 

[Kalam]

I firmly believe that all of your quotes are accurate...

Of course you do.

I'll admit that you do a decent job of hiding your inability to think critically. It's statements like this that expose you for what you really are.

Poor Kalam...

poor, poor Kalem.

Kind of painted yourself into the corner, huh?

Oh, I see. In your "everybody realizes that Islam is evil" fantasy, I'm the one whose arguments are utterly lacking in substance. What a profound reversal of roles!

 

[Rezonator]

My previous post explained why it is not necessary for you to "supply facts."

Not even a little bit persuasively. And I didn't appoint you to make decisions for me about what I consider worth posting.

you assume that most folks- at least most here on USMB, are lacking in sentience.

I don't assume jack shit. I observe—as I wrote earlier—that the media, the news, the government at every level, and this forum, too, are infested with fatuous falsehoods and fictions on the subject. That's my observation. Take it or leave it.

if you wish to inspire thought and debate...continue with a 'plan.'

Asked and answered, counselor. Either stop evading my question about "a plan toward what goal," or roll your plan demands around a pencil and shove 'em up your ass.

One which is based on reality, not the vacant "The point of the article is that Islam is a de facto international state not bound by geography—which geographical borders Islam itself disdains as mere manmade fictions—that its constitution is the Quran, and that it is self-ordained as supreme over all man-made laws and forms of government—including any and all "citizenship" laws, and including our own Constitution."

The only thing vacant is your rebuttal of a thoroughly researched and cited article. The fact that the totality of your rebuttal is a dismissive one-word label is the measure of your intellectual dishonesty.

The degree to which a Muslim subscribes to the letter of the Q'ran, is willing to carry out the most inhuman of instructions, per enchiridion, is unknown.

Some may carry out only the most docile of sura, others may be inspired by the more vile.

You seem to insist that all will be of the latter rather than the former.

What pretentious horseshit. You just confessed your complete ignorance of the abrogation doctrine of Islam—al-Nasikh wal-Mansoukh.

Weren't you the one just talking down to me from your high-horse about how it is "not necessary" for me to supply facts? And now you bray about the fact that you haven't even completed a Quran 101 primer? <Snort!> Get back to me when you've done your homework.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Of course you do.

I'll admit that you do a decent job of hiding your inability to think critically. It's statements like this that expose you for what you really are.

Poor Kalam...

poor, poor Kalem.

Kind of painted yourself into the corner, huh?

Oh, I see. In your "everybody realizes that Islam is evil" fantasy, I'm the one whose arguments are utterly lacking in substance. What a profound reversal of roles!

Correction: ""everybody realizes that Islam..." has more adherents that subscribe to the most violent and inhuman aspects than any other major religion.

Deny?

Let's list all the major religions that have folks leaving or participating in religious services, followed by or accompanied by, murder.

Somewhat short list, huh?

Now then, let's begin our discussion based on the reality outlined above.

 

[PoliticalChic]

My previous post explained why it is not necessary for you to "supply facts."

Not even a little bit persuasively. And I didn't appoint you to make decisions for me about what I consider worth posting.

you assume that most folks- at least most here on USMB, are lacking in sentience.

I don't assume jack shit. I observe—as I wrote earlier—that the media, the news, the government at every level, and this forum, too, are infested with fatuous falsehoods and fictions on the subject. That's my observation. Take it or leave it.



Asked and answered, counselor. Either stop evading my question about "a plan toward what goal," or roll your plan demands around a pencil and shove 'em up your ass.

One which is based on reality, not the vacant "The point of the article is that Islam is a de facto international state not bound by geography—which geographical borders Islam itself disdains as mere manmade fictions—that its constitution is the Quran, and that it is self-ordained as supreme over all man-made laws and forms of government—including any and all "citizenship" laws, and including our own Constitution."

The only thing vacant is your rebuttal of a thoroughly researched and cited article. The fact that the totality of your rebuttal is a dismissive one-word label is the measure of your intellectual dishonesty.

The degree to which a Muslim subscribes to the letter of the Q'ran, is willing to carry out the most inhuman of instructions, per enchiridion, is unknown.

Some may carry out only the most docile of sura, others may be inspired by the more vile.

You seem to insist that all will be of the latter rather than the former.

What pretentious horseshit. You just confessed your complete ignorance of the abrogation doctrine of Islam—al-Nasikh wal-Mansoukh.

Weren't you the one just talking down to me from your high-horse about how it is "not necessary" for me to supply facts? And now you bray about the fact that you haven't even completed a Quran 101 primer? <Snort!> Get back to me when you've done your homework.

Based on the precipitous drop off of your language, and lack of substance in your response, it is clear that my posts skewered the vituperative nature of your attacks on all Muslims,...and you have nothing else to add.

Consider yourself dismissed.

 

[Twofox]

Of course you do.

I'll admit that you do a decent job of hiding your inability to think critically. It's statements like this that expose you for what you really are.

Poor Kalam...

poor, poor Kalem.

Kind of painted yourself into the corner, huh?

Oh, I see. In your "everybody realizes that Islam is evil" fantasy, I'm the one whose arguments are utterly lacking in substance. What a profound reversal of roles!

So why does your avatar have sword in it? It represents your faith in islam correct?

I'm an open minded person, but actions speak louder than words, and so far the actions of Islam have not shown me that it is very tolerant or peaceful.

 

[Kalam]

Correction: ""everybody realizes that Islam..." has more adherents that subscribe to the most violent and inhuman aspects than any other major religion.

Deny?

If you "firmly believe" that Rezonator's litany of bullshit is accurate, then you believe that there is a problem with the very fundamentals of the Islamic religion rather than only with its followers.

 

[Kalam]

Poor Kalam...

poor, poor Kalem.

Kind of painted yourself into the corner, huh?

Oh, I see. In your "everybody realizes that Islam is evil" fantasy, I'm the one whose arguments are utterly lacking in substance. What a profound reversal of roles!

So why does your avatar have sword in it? It represents your faith in islam correct?

I'm an open minded person, but actions speak louder than words, and so far the actions of Islam have not shown me that it is very tolerant or peaceful.

The shahada represents the faith, I suppose. The sword represents our willingness to defend it.

So, you do not distinguish between a religion and its followers?

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Heres a new one if you tire of that one

 

[PoliticalChic]

Correction: ""everybody realizes that Islam..." has more adherents that subscribe to the most violent and inhuman aspects than any other major religion.

Deny?

If you "firmly believe" that Rezonator's litany of bullshit is accurate, then you believe that there is a problem with the very fundamentals of the Islamic religion rather than only with its followers.

Rather than tellng me what I believe, how about you attend to the question posed..."Islam..." has more adherents that subscribe to the most violent and inhuman aspects than any other major religion."

How about we begin right there.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Correction: ""everybody realizes that Islam..." has more adherents that subscribe to the most violent and inhuman aspects than any other major religion.

Deny?

If you "firmly believe" that Rezonator's litany of bullshit is accurate, then you believe that there is a problem with the very fundamentals of the Islamic religion rather than only with its followers.

I have proven that to the extent anything can be proven.