Zone1 Thoughts On Near Death Experiences

[Carl in Michigan]

I don't want to derail another thread on this topic but I want to discuss the topic from a BIBLICAL standpoint. All cultures and religions report them, however they're not all the same.

There are many theories. I have my own. But if the experience contradicts Scripture, I side with Scripture. Never wander far from the trunk of the tree

 

[DennisPTate]

I don't want to derail another thread on this topic but I want to discuss the topic from a BIBLICAL standpoint. All cultures and religions report them, however they're not all the same.

There are many theories. I have my own. But if the experience contradicts Scripture, I side with Scripture. Never wander far from the trunk of the tree

View attachment 1188994

I personally am no expert on near death experiences but I have researched them more than any other topic except for the Bible itself.

I believe that the Apostle Paul did almost certainly address them and I do not know exactly the full context of his statements on them. Once Paul was converted on the road to Damascus did he perhaps meet Lazarus or somebody like Lazarus? Or did he have one of those near death experiences himself, [perhaps at the time when he had been stoned and "appeared to be dead" at Lystra?] If Paul was referring to his own experience did the unusual way that he worded his comments on this topic indicate that he was trying to be as humble as he could be when he got into this topic?


In my opinion verse five hints that this may well have been Paul's very own near death experience?

If I must glory (it is not expedient indeed), but I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. 2 I know a man in Christ above fourteen years ago (whether in the body, I know not, or out of the body, I know not; God knoweth), such a one caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I know such a man (whether in the body, or out of the body, I know not: God knoweth), 4 That he was caught up into paradise, and heard secret words, which it is not granted to man to utter. 5 For such an one I will glory; but for myself I will glory nothing, but in my infirmities.

[2 Corinthiahs 12 : 1 -5]

My guess is that within a couple of years from the time that the Apostle Paul wrote 2 Corinthians he felt that he had to attempt to say more about what he had been shown and he writes Romans chapters nine, ten and eleven. After praying and meditating on what he had been shown for a couple of more years, Paul felt that he had to say more, and he certainly did do that.

I speak the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost: 2 That I have great sadness, and continual sorrow in my heart. 3 For I wished myself to be an anathema from Christ, for my brethren, who are my kinsmen according to the flesh, 4 Who are Israelites, to whom belongeth the adoption as of children, and the glory, and the testament, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises: 5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom is Christ, according to the flesh, who is over all things, God blessed for ever. Amen.
[Romans 9]

Douay-Rheims Bible, Romans Chapter 9

Catholic Bible Study Online, Douay-Rheims Version. Complete text, index, search, Bible verse, bible story, scripture, book, prophesy, christian ...

www.drbo.org

Paul's statement about "anathema from Christ" could refer to the Apostle Paul beginning to question the hidden meaning in the guilty prisoner who had been released just before Messiah Yeshua - Jesus was scourged and crucified and murdered and buried before the Sabbath, [which could have been the First Day of Unleavened Bread which in 31 C.E. was on a Thursday?

Messiah, Barabbas & the Mystery of the Two Goats | Jonathan Cahn Sermon | Resurrection Day 2025​

143,759 views Apr 19, 2025 #jonathancahnlatest #jonathancahn #propheticword

Jonathan Cahn shares one of the most beautiful, important, meaningful, central, and powerful mysteries of the Bible, of God, of you, from the mystery of Isaac’s offering, to the mystery of the Passover lamb, to that of the first fruit and the redemption of the son, to the two goats of Yom Kippur, to the mystery of Barabbas, to God, to Messiah, to you, and your redemption. Jonathan Cahn shares on Resurrection Day.

Now let's continue with some more from Romans chapter eleven.

I say then: Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God hath not cast away his people, which he foreknew. Know you not what the scripture saith of Elias; how he calleth on God against Israel? 3 Lord, they have slain thy prophets, they have dug down thy altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. 4 But what saith the divine answer to him? I have left me seven thousand men, that have not bowed their knees to Baal. 5 Even so then at this present time also, there is a remnant saved according to the election of grace.
...
...
I say then, have they so stumbled, that they should fall? God forbid. But by their offence, salvation is come to the Gentiles, that they may be emulous of them. 12 Now if the offence of them be the riches of the world, and the diminution of them, the riches of the Gentiles; how much more the fulness of them? 13 For I say to you, Gentiles: as long indeed as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I will honour my ministry, 14 If, by any means, I may provoke to emulation them who are my flesh, and may save some of them. 15 For if the loss of them be the reconciliation of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?


For if the firstfruit be holy, so is the lump also: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches be broken, and thou, being a wild olive, art ingrafted in them, and art made partaker of the root, and of the fatness of the olive tree, 18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19 Thou wilt say then: The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in. 20 Well: because of unbelief they were broken off. But thou standest by faith: be not highminded, but fear.

For if God hath not spared the natural branches, fear lest perhaps he also spare not thee. 22 See then the goodness and the severity of God: towards them indeed that are fallen, the severity; but towards thee, the goodness of God, if thou abide in goodness, otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if thou wert cut out of the wild olive tree, which is natural to thee; and, contrary to nature, were grafted into the good olive tree; how much more shall they that are the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? 25 For I would not have you ignorant, brethren, of this mystery, (lest you should be wise in your own conceits), that blindness in part has happened in Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles should come in.

And so all Israel should be saved, as it is written: There shall come out of Sion, he that shall deliver, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob. 27 And this is to them my covenant: when I shall take away their sins. 28 As concerning the gospel, indeed, they are enemies for your sake: but as touching the election, they are most dear for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are without repentance. 30 For as you also in times past did not believe God, but now have obtained mercy, through their unbelief;

So these also now have not believed, for your mercy, that they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God hath concluded all in unbelief, that he may have mercy on all. 33 O the depth of the riches of the wisdom and of the knowledge of God! How incomprehensible are his judgments, and how unsearchable his ways! 34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? Or who hath been his counsellor? 35 Or who hath first given to him, and recompense shall be made him?

For of him, and by him, and in him, are all things: to him be glory for ever. Amen.

It is my belief that by the time that the Apostle Paul wrote Romand chapters nine, ten and eleven he was beginning to deal with information that he had felt was "unlawful to be uttered" a few years previously.

Many near death experiencer over these past few decades have written and testified to ideas that would seen to be "Unlawful to be uttered" by many sincere theologians who identify as being either Christian or Jewish or Messianic Jewish?

 

[Carl in Michigan]

There's a LOT of "supposition" in your response
"I believe"
"My guess"
"In my opinion"
Because you "preach" NDE in every thread, I can see this belief is important to you. But that doesn't make it true simply because you wish it to be.

IF we can reason together with the agreement that the Scriptures are the inspired WORD OF GOD, we have a foundation to work with.

There are FUNDEMENTAL Biblical truths. That is the starting point.

We know from the passage of time that Paul's experience was a VISION, since Jesus said, "NO MAN has ascended into heaven EXCEPT the Son or f Man who came down from heaven.'

Paul was in line with this when he taught about the Resurrection of the dead AT CHRIST'S RETURN at the end of the age.

Also, these NDEs differ depending on the culture and the religion.

The "kindest" theory to explain this is that God "built in" this experience to ease us into death with the knowledge that life ain't over. It may be a visionary "gift" from God.

"Scientists" say it may be an entirely biochemical process as the brain shuts down.

This may be two correct versions of the same experience

 

[DennisPTate]

There's a LOT of "supposition" in your response
"I believe"
"My guess"
"In my opinion"
Because you "preach" NDE in every thread, I can see this belief is important to you. But that doesn't make it true simply because you wish it to be.

IF we can reason together with the agreement that the Scriptures are the inspired WORD OF GOD, we have a foundation to work with.

There are FUNDEMENTAL Biblical truths. That is the starting point.

We know from the passage of time that Paul's experience was a VISION, since Jesus said, "NO MAN has ascended into heaven EXCEPT the Son or f Man who came down from heaven.'

Paul was in line with this when he taught about the Resurrection of the dead AT CHRIST'S RETURN at the end of the age.

Also, these NDEs differ depending on the culture and the religion.

The "kindest" theory to explain this is that God "built in" this experience to ease us into death with the knowledge that life ain't over. It may be a visionary "gift" from God.

"Scientists" say it may be an entirely biochemical process as the brain shuts down.

This may be two correct versions of the same experience

Well said. What do you think about these scriptures in Isaiah that remind me of many of those near death experience accounts?

Thou shalt take up this parable against the king of Babylon, and shalt say: How is the oppressor come to nothing, the tribute hath ceased? [5] The Lord hath broken the staff of the wicked, the rod of the rulers,

[6] That struck the people in wrath with an incurable wound, that brought nations under in fury, that persecuted in a cruel manner. [7] The whole earth is quiet and still, it is glad and hath rejoiced. [8] The fir trees also have rejoiced over thee, and the cedars of Libanus, saying: Since thou hast slept, there hath none come up to cut us down. [9] Hell below was in an uproar to meet thee at thy coming, it stirred up the giants for thee. All the princes of the earth are risen up from their thrones, all the princes of nations. [10] All shall answer, and say to thee: Thou also art wounded as well as we, thou art become like unto us.

Douay-Rheims Bible, Isaias (Isaiah) Chapter 14

Catholic Bible Study Online, Douay-Rheims Version. Complete text, index, search, Bible verse, bible story, scripture, book, prophesy, christian ...

www.drbo.org

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

There are many theories, but only one correct one:

Hallucinations and false memories resulting from hypoxic episodes.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Well said. What do you think about these scriptures in Isaiah that remind me of many of those near death experience accounts?

I'm sorry, I don't see the connection

 

[The Irish Ram]

Paul was in line with this when he taught about the Resurrection of the dead AT CHRIST'S RETURN at the end of the age

There have been several resurrections of the dead. The story of the rich man and the beggar tells us a lot about what happens when our clay structure gives out.
Souls continue.
In spirit form, we look like who we were when we were alive. We are recognizable even without the clay exterior.
We retain our knowledge and memories, because while our brains turn to mush in the grave, your soul is your memory bank.
We have vocal cords, our souls can speak, feel discomfort, and remorse.
During the earthquake that took place while Christ was on the cross, opened about 10,000 tombs. The souls waiting on Christ in Abraham's Bosom returned to those tombs and came out in their own, now glorified bodies.

When the Bible describes the rapture, the graves of those souls in Heaven are reunited with their now glorified bodies, and those who are still live are caught up in the clouds, in the air to Jesus. That is not when Christ returns. According to the Bible, the whole rapture process takes less than a split second.

1 Thessalonians 4:17
Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up in the clouds together with them to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

 

[Hafar1014]

There are many theories, but only one correct one:

Hallucinations and false memories resulting from hypoxic episodes.

False many cases involve no brain functioning or minimal functioning.
Then we have terminal lucidity when a badly damaged brain that has no memory or personality suddenly regains all of it instantly. Then death occurs in 1 or 2 days later. Thats physically impossible since the brain is physically damaged. When the body is near death memories personality and emotion separates intact.

 

[skye]

Very interesting topic, but more I can not add, it has never happened to me, all I know is that people who have "come back" are completly changed by the experience and for the better.

 

[Hafar1014]

Very interesting topic, but more I can not add, it has never happened to me, all I know is that people who have "come back" are completly changed by the experience and for the better.

You dont have to have an NDE to be contacted by the after life. A voice in my head saved my life. It wasnt my voice

 

[Carl in Michigan]

You dont have to have an NDE to be contacted by the after life. A voice in my head saved my life. It wasnt my voice

I've had that experience ONCE in my life. I "heard'" it in my forehead and not my ears. It told me something personal that would come to pass. It did.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

False many cases involve no brain functioning or minimal functioning.

This is simply false and made up. Of course all of these dying people were not hooked up to EEGs. And even if they were, an EEG has a floor of what it can detect.

 

[Nobody911]

Consciousness is not fully understood by current scientific methods.

Carl Jung: "The supernatural is the natural not yet understood."

Jung meant that what people call "supernatural"—ghosts, miracles, spirits, psychic phenomena—are phenomena arising from the same natural reality as everything else, but at a stage where our scientific, psychological, or conceptual understanding is incomplete. Key points that explain his statement:

- Epistemic humility: Jung encourages treating extraordinary reports as data rather than dismissing them. If something appears supernatural, it signals a gap in current knowledge, not necessarily a violation of natural law.

- Psychological framing: Many supposedly supernatural events involve mind processes (dreams, visions, synchronicities, archetypal images). Jung saw these as expressions of the unconscious or the collective unconscious; they are natural psychic phenomena that we lack full theories to explain.

- Synchronicity: Jung developed the idea of meaningful coincidences (synchronicity) where events are connected by meaning rather than causality. Calling such events "supernatural" is premature—they may point to unknown lawful relations between psyche and matter.

- Historical perspective: What earlier ages called magical or divine often became domains of science once better understood (lightning → electricity; disease → germs). Jung used that history to argue for treating current "supernatural" claims as candidates for future natural explanation.

- Methodological stance: He urged careful observation, symbolic interpretation, and openness—especially in clinical and cultural contexts—rather than outright skepticism or naive belief.

In short, Jung's aphorism asserts that "supernatural" labels reflect ignorance or conceptual limits. He urged examining such phenomena for natural (including psychological and symbolic) explanations rather than assuming they break natural order.

sources :

• Carl Jung | Biography, Archetypes, Books, Collective Unconscious, & Theory | Britannica
• Exploring the Depths of the Human Psyche: The Life and Legacy of Carl Jung

 

[DennisPTate]

You dont have to have an NDE to be contacted by the after life. A voice in my head saved my life. It wasnt my voice

I had a couple of pretty strange things happen in 1990 and 1991 when I went off in a very different direction from where I had been going from 1972 to 1990.

I do believe you Hafar1014. An encounter with our Creator can happen at any moment that it needs to.

 

[Hafar1014]

I had a couple of pretty strange things happen in 1990 and 1991 when I went off in a very different direction from where I had been going from 1972 to 1990.

I do believe you Hafar1014. An encounter with our Creator can happen at any moment that it needs to.

They are what my medium friend calls spirit guides

 

[DennisPTate]

They are what my medium friend calls spirit guides

I believe that there are two very different types of spirit guides.

Sid Roth got into the New Age Movement for a while and he felt that he was in a state that could be termed influence or even possession. He uttered two words... "Jesus Help!"... and Sid's deliverance from what was actually Familiar Spirits began.

One way to find out if our "Spirit Guides" have been sent from the dark side of the force is to pray in the name of Messiah Yeshua - Jesus. Familiar Spirits from the dark side, hate that name so vehemently that they will go into a frenzy when you begin to do something as simple as say "Jesus Help" with true intentions.

If you have already gotten in contact with sincere angelic assistance that is from Light, Truth and Love, then they will be glad when you use that name.

[John J. Davis ] :
"

Wildflower Meadow​

Here’s the last part of my near-death experience. My guide took me to what I can only describe as an absolutely beautiful meadow. There were rolling hills, beautiful flowers, green grass. It was a perfect day.

And then my guide left. I thought I was standing there by myself, and then, all of a sudden, a man showed up in front of me. Nobody told me it was him; I just knew that it was Jesus. He was different from everyone else. I could see his hands, and I could see his feet. I could see what he was wearing. He had a white robe on with a golden sash around his waist, and he had gold-colored sandals that laced up his calves, but he was so bright I couldn’t make out his facial features. Jesus had so much energy and so much light that was pouring out of him.

He said something to me, and it is something I have tried to do my entire life since then. It was like my assignment somehow. Jesus said, “You must tell them there is no death.”

Right after he said those words, I immediately woke up back in the hospital room. I asked the surgeon what happened, and he said, “We lost you. You were gone for seven minutes.”

Wildflower Meadow - John J. Davis Near-Death Experience

My guide took me to a wildflower meadow with beautiful wildflowers of every color. Suddenly a man showed up and I knew it was Jesus.

johnjdavisnde.com

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Did you ever hear about the experience of Sam Kinison? He's not the only person being prepared for death in this way. He argued with God, but after something was said to him, he accepted his "fate"

At first it looked like there were no serious injuries to Kinison, but within minutes he suddenly said to no one in particular "I don’t want to die. I don’t want to die." LaBove later said "it was as if he was having a conversation, talking to some unseen somebody else" some unseen person. Then there was a pause as if Kinison was listening to the other person speak. Then he asked "But why?" and after another pause LaBove heard him clearly say: "Okay, Okay, Okay.’ LaBove said: "The last ‘Okay’ was so soft and at peace…Whatever voice was talking to him gave him the right answer and he just relaxed with it. He said it so sweet, like he was talking to someone he loved." Kinson then lost consciousness. Efforts to resuscitate him failed. Kinison died at the scene from internal injuries. He was just thirty eight years old