Those Peaceful Indians Until Whitey Showed Up

[iamwhatiseem]

There is no history of any group of mankind in the world that isn't full of murder/war/slavery/rape... you name it.
The American Indians were no different. They wasn't less murderous than other peoples, or worse.

 

[Ringel05]

Until the 1970s, virtually all archaeologists and anthropologists claimed that the ancient Maya were a peaceful people who never engaged in large-scale warfare, that war was virtually unknown among them.

Yeah, the early archeologists latched on to Jean-Jacques Rousseau's erroneous stereotype of the noble savage. Most people are aware these days that the so called noble savage it a myth, what archeology and anthropologists have learned in the last 30-40 years is amazing. When I finished up my Cultural Anthropology pursuit in college in the early 80s the concept of the noble savage was only being taught as an example of how not to approach the subject of primitive cultures.

 

[Pellinore]

Rights are derived from the Constitution after all?

They are enumerated in the Constitution, not derived from it.

Rights granted by people can also be removed by people. The Big Idea behind the Declaration of Independence was that everyone had these natural rights, granted by our Creator, that other people can't take away, no matter what.

 

[there4eyeM]

They are enumerated in the Constitution, not derived from it.

Rights granted by people can also be removed by people. The Big Idea behind the Declaration of Independence was that everyone had these natural rights, granted by our Creator, that other people can't take away, no matter what.

No matter where nor who they are?

 

[gipper]

No matter where nor who they are?

It’s a nice idea, but we all know it’s bull shit. Our government ignores the constitution and violates the rights of Americans every day.

 

[there4eyeM]

If one is prevented from practicing a right (by force or other cause), is it still a right?

 

[DudleySmith]

If one is prevented from practicing a right (by force or other cause), is it still a right?

When the ones being 'violated' are imaginary, like in gipper's fantasy world, rights don't exist.

 

[bodecea]

Who the hell said they were peaceful?

His strawman.

 

[DudleySmith]

Except that it doesn't limit itself to just citizens. The entire nation is built upon the belief that all people have unalienable rights, bestowed by our Creator. The Constitution made us the first nation in the history of the world to be built around that idea, and it is at the core of why we are exceptional at all.

And yet, you said that some people have to earn those rights, by being a productive or properly organized society. Until then, according to how I read what you wrote, they are not entitled to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and deserved to be conquered by those who earned their elevated space.

Citizens have duties as well as rights, especially under WASP traditions and religious social values.


Every society has a right to fix the fundamental principles of its association, and to say to all individuals, that if they contemplate pursuits beyond the limits of these principles and involving dangers which the society chooses to avoid, they must go somewhere else for their exercise; that we want no citizens, and still less ephemeral and pseudo-citizens, on such terms. We may exclude them from our territory, as we do persons infected with disease.

Thomas Jefferson to William H. Crawford, 1816

If I'm wrong, tell me why.

Nothing in our founders' writings, the Declaration, nor the Constitution endorses anarchy nor tolerating murdering rampages by savages. 'Libertarians' are mostly nutjobs, not the 'Original Intent' fans they proclaim themselves to be. Jefferson and both his Republicans and the three main Federalist factions had zero problems deporting radicals and malcontents.

 

[gipper]

When the ones being 'violated' are imaginary, like in gipper's fantasy world, rights don't exist.

You’re blind. No doubt you’ll do well in our Orwellian future.

 

[ESay]

Citizens have duties as well as rights, especially under WASP traditions and religious social values

WASP traditions and religious social values have all become a history since some time ago.

 

[DudleySmith]

WASP traditions and religious social values have all become a history since some time ago.

So what? They were there for a long time, certainly up to the Civil War. Enough people still have those values today to make them important, despite the noise from the MSM, and that includes among a significant minority of blacks and latinos.

 

[toobfreak]

Who the hell said they were peaceful?

The Indians were a neolithic community and all neolithic tribes share a commonality of primative beliefs and customs, but they found out what killing was REALLY about when the white man came along with their diseases, guns, and backward legal system where anything is justified so long as you can write a law saying so.

 

[DudleySmith]

They are enumerated in the Constitution, not derived from it.

Rights granted by people can also be removed by people. The Big Idea behind the Declaration of Independence was that everyone had these natural rights, granted by our Creator, that other people can't take away, no matter what.

It was a propaganda document, and nothing else. The same Jefferson who wrote most of it, for other's approval, not his own, also wrote a screed on the evils of slavery, but in real life he made a fortune off of slave trading and bragged to his friends about what great returns he made off of the slave trade compared to farming.

Nobody should ever confuse what politicians say with what they actually believe and practice themselves.

 

[ESay]

So what? They were there for a long time, certainly up to the Civil War. Enough people still have those values today to make them important, despite the noise from the MSM, and that includes among a significant minority of blacks and latinos.

So, maybe it would be more correctly to call them something like American universal values?

 

[Mushroom]

Tell me about what Columbus brought to the Indians.

 

[Mushroom]

Guess it's not as widespread as some think it is

Oh trust me, it is. As well as the attempt by many to remove us from almost anything because "others" say it is "offensive".

Essentially trying to erase Indians from the culture, and create an image that some idolize.

YOU know it has gone over the top when schools on Indian Reservations are forbidden from using any reference to their own culture in their own mascots.

 

[Mushroom]

You know, the place that was such a heavenly utopia that millions sought escape in the "new world"?

You mean where they were not performing human sacrifices into the 19th century?

 

[Mushroom]

“The bloodshed unleashed by the Europeans had a lot do with killing off of these populations. Yet sickness played perhaps an even larger role. Smallpox hit the Andes before Spain’s Pizarro did, killing off most people and plunging the area into civil war. The sickness is thought to have arrived to the region from the Caribbean. Hepatitis A killed off an estimated 90% of the population in coastal New England in 3 years. Within first years of European contact, 95% of native populations died. “

So it is the fault of the Europeans that disease killed most of them.

Tell me, are you also blaming China for the current pandemic? And do you also blame China for the Black Death? Because that is literally the logic you are using.

 

[Mushroom]

a wealth of STDs

You are aware are you not that syphilis originated in the Americas, right?