This place is a joke - Merged with AIRING OUT GRIEVANCES

[rtwngAvngr]

Y'all are brainwashed. We do have options. It's simply not the case that we MUST TRADE WITH TOTALITARIANS. We've been told it will make them free, but I see no evidence of that. It's all a lie, to get us to race each other to the depths of fascist inhumanity.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Pretty compelling, I know. The sad thing is the public stock market has gotten a huge segment of the population in the position of benefitting from the evil, and also gives them a level of plausible deniability they need to sleep at night.

 

[5stringJeff]

Wrong. OUr government has traditionally put moral boundaries on business foreign and domestic. Boycotting south africa for instance. Or outlawing child labor domestically, or outlawing prostitution.

The federal government has the ability, in the Constitution, to put restrictions on interstate commerce, so of course they can regulate child labor. Prostitution, however, is a state-by-state decision, and is not outlawed by the federal government, just like phone sex isn't outlawed. Again, individuals make moral decisions as to whether or not they should purchase those services.

Boycotting an entire country should be an individual choice, not a national choice, unless we are at war with that country.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

The federal government has the ability, in the Constitution, to put restrictions on interstate commerce, so of course they can regulate child labor. Prostitution, however, is a state-by-state decision, and is not outlawed by the federal government, just like phone sex isn't outlawed. Again, individuals make moral decisions as to whether or not they should purchase those services.

Boycotting an entire country should be an individual choice, not a national choice, unless we are at war with that country.

I disagree, it should be done at a national level, as we have done with other nations many times in the past, even without being at war, South Africa, for instance, over their apartheid policy.

Besides, it's not that far of stretch to assert we should be at war with china.

 

[jillian]

The federal government has the ability, in the Constitution, to put restrictions on interstate commerce, so of course they can regulate child labor. Prostitution, however, is a state-by-state decision, and is not outlawed by the federal government, just like phone sex isn't outlawed. Again, individuals make moral decisions as to whether or not they should purchase those services.

Boycotting an entire country should be an individual choice, not a national choice, unless we are at war with that country.

Actually, States can't regulate anything covered by the commerce claus IF such regulation impacts on interstate commerce. It's kind of an interesting area, one I'm not particularly fluent in.

Just to play devil's advocate for a moment (and by that take RWA's side :funnyface ) He raises a good point about our government setting moral boundaries, and rightfully so, when not doing business with a country like South Africa when it followed apartheid or with a country's leadership, like Hamas, if it doesn't foreswear terrorism.

I just think we've allowed China too much power over our financial well-being to do anything like that.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

I just think we've allowed China too much power over our financial well-being to do anything like that.

We haven't jillian. We just have to decide if we prefer cheap crap to moral clarity. Materialism vs. freedom.

 

[jillian]

We haven't jillian. We just have to decide if we prefer cheap crap to moral clarity. Materialism vs. freedom.

I'm talking about the debt issue, not "cheap labor".

 

[5stringJeff]

We haven't jillian. We just have to decide if we prefer cheap crap to moral clarity. Materialism vs. freedom.

Actually, you mean freedom (what I'm espousing) vs. government-dictated trading (which is what you're espousing).

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Actually, you mean freedom (what I'm espousing) vs. government-dictated trading (which is what you're espousing).

No. You're espousing enabling totalitarians, while I'm espousing cutting their infernal influence out of world affairs. We should take the time to rebuild all our production capacities domestically, so we're not so dependant.

 

[5stringJeff]

Actually, States can't regulate anything covered by the commerce claus IF such regulation impacts on interstate commerce. It's kind of an interesting area, one I'm not particularly fluent in.

You're right. I thought that was inferred in my post... if not, sorry.

Just to play devil's advocate for a moment (and by that take RWA's side :funnyface ) He raises a good point about our government setting moral boundaries, and rightfully so, when not doing business with a country like South Africa when it followed apartheid or with a country's leadership, like Hamas, if it doesn't foreswear terrorism.

I just think we've allowed China too much power over our financial well-being to do anything like that.

Doing business with terrorists is rightly outlawed, since we are at war against terrorism. But for the most part, I believe individuals should make their own decisions about where they spend their money. In the case of South Africa (and I don't know much of the historical background of the embargo), the country itself was not a threat to America; we just didn't like their apartheid policy. I would argue that 99% of America didn't like apartheid, and that if we had announced an unofficial boycott, individuals would have made the moral decision not to buy South African products. People are currently free to do the same with China, if they so desire.

 

[The ClayTaurus]

Let's just build a giant

Each coast can have a hand, and somewhere in Nebraska their can be a giant waving tongue with a PA system constantly repeating lalalalalalalallalalalalalalalalal

 

[5stringJeff]

No. You're espousing enabling totalitarians, while I'm espousing cutting their infernal influence out of world affairs. We should take the time to rebuild all our production capacities domestically, so we're not so dependant.

In other words, you favor a less efficient economy and higher prices, leading to higher unemployment and more government benefits paid out to welfare recipients. Did you also register as a Democrat for the '06 elections?

 

[rtwngAvngr]

You're right. I thought that was inferred in my post... if not, sorry.



Doing business with terrorists is rightly outlawed, since we are at war against terrorism. But for the most part, I believe individuals should make their own decisions about where they spend their money. In the case of South Africa (and I don't know much of the historical background of the embargo), the country itself was not a threat to America; we just didn't like their apartheid policy. I would argue that 99% of America didn't like apartheid, and that if we had announced an unofficial boycott, individuals would have made the moral decision not to buy South African products. People are currently free to do the same with China, if they so desire.

No. they wouldn't have. There are options to trading with china, such as, not trading with china. the government makes trade decsions all the time. It just so happens that china is the nation that will be used to drive all others to tyranny themselves, in vain hopes of trying to compete. This is the NWO formula for reducing the world to corporate tyranny.

Wake up!

 

[rtwngAvngr]

I like the old days when we used to actually FIGHT totalitarians. I hate the New World Order. Maybe jesus will will stop it.

"Dear Jesus, Please help people see how their thirst for cheap goods is making them support evil. Amen."

 

[jimnyc]

:rotflmao:
Real life? This is the internet, my friend.

I find it interesting, but not surprising, that you would describe me as a liberal, and claim that I would fit in at a Democratic board, despite the fact that my political ideology is neither liberal, nor is it aligned with the Democratic party.
Thank you for demonstrating another point for me, that whenever someone is in disagreement with this board, that person is often labeled a liberal, with or without reason.

Congrats on speaking out of one mouth while the other was slinging crap. Here you are complaining about generalizations about liberals, while generalizing about this entire board. Why do you feel the need to knock the board because you don't like some members here and the way they post? Do you not believe they are still entitled to post, regardless of their views about liberals?

If this place is a joke, can you name some better places, that allow all political parties to participate in fair debate, regardless of where you may reside? No banning simply because you don't agree? I mean, if this place is a joke, there must be better places for you to spend your time, no?

 

[no1tovote4]

Originally Posted by Max Power

Real life? This is the internet, my friend.

I find it interesting, but not surprising, that you would describe me as a liberal, and claim that I would fit in at a Democratic board, despite the fact that my political ideology is neither liberal, nor is it aligned with the Democratic party.
Thank you for demonstrating another point for me, that whenever someone is in disagreement with this board, that person is often labeled a liberal, with or without reason.

Trolling... Trolling on the riiiiver!

 

[Max Power]

Congrats on speaking out of one mouth while the other was slinging crap. Here you are complaining about generalizations about liberals, while generalizing about this entire board. Why do you feel the need to knock the board because you don't like some members here and the way they post? Do you not believe they are still entitled to post, regardless of their views about liberals?

Like I said in my first post, it's not the entire board, and there are quite a few intelligent posters, including some who are biased towards a certain side of the political spectrum, and I certainly believe that everyone is entitled to post, but the quality of the entire forum declines when the majority of threads are "Why do liberals hate..." and "Ask the Dems" strawman arguments.
http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=49
The top 5 threads in this forum are essentially complaints about liberals (and, let's not forget, the "liberal media").
If whining about liberals is a "good" message board, then count me out.

If this place is a joke, can you name some better places, that allow all political parties to participate in fair debate, regardless of where you may reside? No banning simply because you don't agree? I mean, if this place is a joke, there must be better places for you to spend your time, no?

Quite a few, actually. This thread aside, I've pretty much stopped posting here, save one or two threads in the WOT forum and one or two threads in the Economy forum.

So, yes, I do have better places to spend my time, and I've been coming here a lot less lately than I used to (ask any of your regulars who've engaged in discussion with me, and they'll attest to that).

Again, if your idea of a good discussion board is to simply whine about how liberals are ruining America, then mission accomplished. If people are looking for an intelligent discussion, they'd probably be better off looking elsewhere.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Like I said in my first post, it's not the entire board, and there are quite a few intelligent posters, including some who are biased towards a certain side of the political spectrum, and I certainly believe that everyone is entitled to post, but the quality of the entire forum declines when the majority of threads are "Why do liberals hate..." and "Ask the Dems" strawman arguments.
http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=49
The top 5 threads in this forum are essentially complaints about liberals (and, let's not forget, the "liberal media").
If whining about liberals is a "good" message board, then count me out.


Quite a few, actually. This thread aside, I've pretty much stopped posting here, save one or two threads in the WOT forum and one or two threads in the Economy forum.

So, yes, I do have better places to spend my time, and I've been coming here a lot less lately than I used to (ask any of your regulars who've engaged in discussion with me, and they'll attest to that).

Again, if your idea of a good discussion board is to simply whine about how liberals are ruining America, then mission accomplished. If people are looking for an intelligent discussion, they'd probably be better off looking elsewhere.

STFU, whiner.

 

[manu1959]

If whining about liberals is a "good" message board, then count me out.

don't let the door hit ya on the way out....

 

[dmp]

Like I said in my first post, it's not the entire board, and there are quite a few intelligent posters, including some who are biased towards a certain side of the political spectrum, and I certainly believe that everyone is entitled to post, but the quality of the entire forum declines when the majority of threads are "Why do liberals hate..." and "Ask the Dems" strawman arguments.
http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=49
The top 5 threads in this forum are essentially complaints about liberals (and, let's not forget, the "liberal media").
If whining about liberals is a "good" message board, then count me out.


Quite a few, actually. This thread aside, I've pretty much stopped posting here, save one or two threads in the WOT forum and one or two threads in the Economy forum.

So, yes, I do have better places to spend my time, and I've been coming here a lot less lately than I used to (ask any of your regulars who've engaged in discussion with me, and they'll attest to that).

Again, if your idea of a good discussion board is to simply whine about how liberals are ruining America, then mission accomplished. If people are looking for an intelligent discussion, they'd probably be better off looking elsewhere.

Then why - oh WHY the drama? Seriously? Just go away. What's the point of your rant? Did you need an esteem boost? Maybe a 'PAY ATTENTION TO ME" thread? Well, sonny - you got your wish. Great. Fine. We all see you there, posting.

Now - grow a pair of balls...Grow UP...find some esteem on ebay or whatever it takes. Just stop posting and nobody will care. You can go on your merry way and live your life. We won't chase you - I promise.