This is why you shouldn't pay burger flippers 15 an hour

[Andylusion]

Odd. I find small businesses run by a "family" are the nicest bosses to work for, in fact, I pro-bono or hugely discount my service fees simply to help them out because of how they treat their employees. Maybe it's a local thing as I generally stay local with small businesses...

It's not a local thing, because my jobs have been all over. However I did not say that "all" family business treat their employees like crap.

You read in, more than what was there. I said most of the abuses are in family business.

Family business is more to the extreme either way. Large corporations, are more in the center of both sides. They don't treat their employees overly good, or overly bad in my experience. Largely because everyone was hired from the outside, and worked their way in.

Family business, can be very generous and nice to employees. But family business, can also be the most abusive of any business, because "I own this place, and you do as I say, or get out!".

And even the best of family business employers, tend to... not always... but tend to have that nepotism element.

I worked at one company, where I found out after working there for 6 months, that I was one of exactly 4 people in the entire facility, that was not either family, or a friend of the family. Wasn't a bad place to work, nor did they treat you terribly, but.... you either married up... or you didn't go up. Every person was a relative, a spouse, a close friend of a relative. Me, and two guys, and one girl, were the only people in the place not related or friends, and all four of us, were the lowest paid employees of the place, and it was made indirectly clear, that no promotions were coming our way. In fact, one of the guys, had a degree in electrical engineering, and I found he was paid the same as me.

1. You worked all over the places. Maybe you cannot hold on to your jobs?
2. How in the world you knew how much other employees make? Are everyone displaying their pay check?
3. From what I read you complained a lot. Maybe you are a below average worker?

I've been openly told that x position is lowest paid in the company. And on other occasions, people are a bit loosed lipped with how much they make.

I actually complain very little about my own job. And there has only been two jobs where I was specifically treated very badly. In fact, other than the one above where the owner was insulting to me, all of my other examples were where other people, were treated badly, not me.

You don't see me complaining about low-pay. And there's a reason. I am a below average worker. I never have blamed my employer, for my uselessness, and worthless lack of skills. Ironically though, I have never been fired. I show up on time, work the entire time, and never cause any problems.

I'm just crappy useless human being, but not worth getting rid of, and replacing.

Most of the time, I'm laid off for lack of work, or quit because I hate my miserable life so much.

Ironically, I've had several times, where the manager tried to talk me out of quitting, and one demanded that I call him up and get my job back if I didn't like the new place. But that's more because I work for nothing, and don't complain, rather than any skill on my part. But I've had roughly 38 different jobs (roughly given I've forgotten more jobs I've had, than most people have ever had). So essentially your criticism is correct. OH well. Sucks to be me.

 

[beagle9]

Odd. I find small businesses run by a "family" are the nicest bosses to work for, in fact, I pro-bono or hugely discount my service fees simply to help them out because of how they treat their employees. Maybe it's a local thing as I generally stay local with small businesses...

It's not a local thing, because my jobs have been all over. However I did not say that "all" family business treat their employees like crap.

You read in, more than what was there. I said most of the abuses are in family business.

Family business is more to the extreme either way. Large corporations, are more in the center of both sides. They don't treat their employees overly good, or overly bad in my experience. Largely because everyone was hired from the outside, and worked their way in.

Family business, can be very generous and nice to employees. But family business, can also be the most abusive of any business, because "I own this place, and you do as I say, or get out!".

And even the best of family business employers, tend to... not always... but tend to have that nepotism element.

I worked at one company, where I found out after working there for 6 months, that I was one of exactly 4 people in the entire facility, that was not either family, or a friend of the family. Wasn't a bad place to work, nor did they treat you terribly, but.... you either married up... or you didn't go up. Every person was a relative, a spouse, a close friend of a relative. Me, and two guys, and one girl, were the only people in the place not related or friends, and all four of us, were the lowest paid employees of the place, and it was made indirectly clear, that no promotions were coming our way. In fact, one of the guys, had a degree in electrical engineering, and I found he was paid the same as me.

1. You worked all over the places. Maybe you cannot hold on to your jobs?
2. How in the world you knew how much other employees make? Are everyone displaying their pay check?
3. From what I read you complained a lot. Maybe you are a below average worker?

I've been openly told that x position is lowest paid in the company. And on other occasions, people are a bit loosed lipped with how much they make.

I actually complain very little about my own job. And there has only been two jobs where I was specifically treated very badly. In fact, other than the one above where the owner was insulting to me, all of my other examples were where other people, were treated badly, not me.

You don't see me complaining about low-pay. And there's a reason. I am a below average worker. I never have blamed my employer, for my uselessness, and worthless lack of skills. Ironically though, I have never been fired. I show up on time, work the entire time, and never cause any problems.

I'm just crappy useless human being, but not worth getting rid of, and replacing.

Most of the time, I'm laid off for lack of work, or quit because I hate my miserable life so much.

Ironically, I've had several times, where the manager tried to talk me out of quitting, and one demanded that I call him up and get my job back if I didn't like the new place. But that's more because I work for nothing, and don't complain, rather than any skill on my part. But I've had roughly 38 different jobs (roughly given I've forgotten more jobs I've had, than most people have ever had). So essentially your criticism is correct. OH well. Sucks to be me.

. You know the whole issue is simple really, but here you are coming up with scenario after scenario after scenario.... Why ? Minimum wage should be an entrance wage to any company that calls themselves a company. Then after say 6 months the employee should have earned his or her way out of the entrance pay system. If a company wants or doesn't care that a person not earn their way out of the minimum wage start pay, then I'd say the company would let a person work for free if the person really wanted to, and then tell all it's buddies over wine and steak about how much of an idiot the person is... Now is that right ? I knew a company that had management that preyed upon the weak minded in life, and I remember every time a worker would walk out the door, the management would say things like "there goes an idiot or dumb ace or make gestures that depicted what they figured an idiot represented. These people were pure evil, but sadly they were very wealthy as well. They worked people into the ground, and then they would totally disrespect them behind their backs. There sadly exist today some bad greedy people who are out there with way to much power, and one can't help but wonder how deep does it really go anymore ? Outing these types of individuals or groups is imperative to saving this nation, and restoring the true American Dream once more.

 

[Andylusion]

Odd. I find small businesses run by a "family" are the nicest bosses to work for, in fact, I pro-bono or hugely discount my service fees simply to help them out because of how they treat their employees. Maybe it's a local thing as I generally stay local with small businesses...

It's not a local thing, because my jobs have been all over. However I did not say that "all" family business treat their employees like crap.

You read in, more than what was there. I said most of the abuses are in family business.

Family business is more to the extreme either way. Large corporations, are more in the center of both sides. They don't treat their employees overly good, or overly bad in my experience. Largely because everyone was hired from the outside, and worked their way in.

Family business, can be very generous and nice to employees. But family business, can also be the most abusive of any business, because "I own this place, and you do as I say, or get out!".

And even the best of family business employers, tend to... not always... but tend to have that nepotism element.

I worked at one company, where I found out after working there for 6 months, that I was one of exactly 4 people in the entire facility, that was not either family, or a friend of the family. Wasn't a bad place to work, nor did they treat you terribly, but.... you either married up... or you didn't go up. Every person was a relative, a spouse, a close friend of a relative. Me, and two guys, and one girl, were the only people in the place not related or friends, and all four of us, were the lowest paid employees of the place, and it was made indirectly clear, that no promotions were coming our way. In fact, one of the guys, had a degree in electrical engineering, and I found he was paid the same as me.

1. You worked all over the places. Maybe you cannot hold on to your jobs?
2. How in the world you knew how much other employees make? Are everyone displaying their pay check?
3. From what I read you complained a lot. Maybe you are a below average worker?

I've been openly told that x position is lowest paid in the company. And on other occasions, people are a bit loosed lipped with how much they make.

I actually complain very little about my own job. And there has only been two jobs where I was specifically treated very badly. In fact, other than the one above where the owner was insulting to me, all of my other examples were where other people, were treated badly, not me.

You don't see me complaining about low-pay. And there's a reason. I am a below average worker. I never have blamed my employer, for my uselessness, and worthless lack of skills. Ironically though, I have never been fired. I show up on time, work the entire time, and never cause any problems.

I'm just crappy useless human being, but not worth getting rid of, and replacing.

Most of the time, I'm laid off for lack of work, or quit because I hate my miserable life so much.

Ironically, I've had several times, where the manager tried to talk me out of quitting, and one demanded that I call him up and get my job back if I didn't like the new place. But that's more because I work for nothing, and don't complain, rather than any skill on my part. But I've had roughly 38 different jobs (roughly given I've forgotten more jobs I've had, than most people have ever had). So essentially your criticism is correct. OH well. Sucks to be me.

. You know the whole issue is simple really, but here you are coming up with scenario after scenario after scenario.... Why ? Minimum wage should be an entrance wage to any company that calls themselves a company. Then after say 6 months the employee should have earned his or her way out of the entrance pay system. If a company wants or doesn't care that a person not earn their way out of the minimum wage start pay, then I'd say the company would let a person work for free if the person really wanted to, and then tell all it's buddies over wine and steak about how much of an idiot the person is... Now is that right ? I knew a company that had management that preyed upon the weak minded in life, and I remember every time a worker would walk out the door, the management would say things like "there goes an idiot or dumb ace or make gestures that depicted what they figured an idiot represented. These people were pure evil, but sadly they were very wealthy as well. They worked people into the ground, and then they would totally disrespect them behind their backs. There sadly exist today some bad greedy people who are out there with way to much power, and one can't help but wonder how deep does it really go anymore ? Outing these types of individuals or groups is imperative to saving this nation, and restoring the true American Dream once more.

Again.... you are making a ton of assumptions.

ASSumptions:

1. The person in the minimum wage positions wishes to move up. Some do not. Yes they want to be paid more, but they don't want to do the work required to do that.

Again, I myself am one of these people. When I worked at the parts store, they tried to promote me to manager a dozen times. I refused. I hate management. I hate dealing with employees and customers. I don't want to manage people.

2. The company has an open position for higher pay. How do you know if there is a management position available? If there is no position available, the company can't pay new manager in a higher pay rate, to sit around and do nothing, because there is no work for them to do.

3. The employee is even worth promoting. Believe it or not, there are many employees, that are neither bad enough to fire, nor good enough to promote. I generally fit that category. But I've seen many others. For example at my last big job, we a had a guy in the stock room. One of the most lazy people I've ever met. But he did just enough, just barely enough, to get by without being fired.

He'd sit there, playing games on his phone, and talking to people. And our orders would come up... you know... late, but not *toooo* late. Not late enough to get into trouble.

And even then... sometimes you have an employee that works good, but is lousy to work with. You have an employee with a bad attitude, but works hard, and he never gets a promotion. Well of course not. If the manager promotes this guy, then the manager would have to deal with him and his lousy attitude all day long. Better to leave him there in the corner, because at least he works on his own well.

Aside from those false assumptions, when you claim others are greedy and have too much power.... your own story contradicts that.

How much power did the owner really have? The employee walked off the job, and what could the owner do about it? Nothing. So much power did he have? Because he complained after the guy left?

Let me explain what too much power really is. Under Socialism in Russia, employees that were in state run companies, if the boss didn't like you, you'd be sent to a show trial, declared a traitor to the communist government, sent to Siberia, where you were worked until you couldn't work anymore, and the left to starve to death.

Or in China, where people in state run factories would be shuttled out of the factory, and back to communal rice farms, where you would live out your life in poverty until you died.

Now compare that to "he called him an idiot as he left and found other work". Which one has "too much power"?

As far as Greedy..... who is being greedy? What do you think the motivation is for demanding a pay raise, when you have done nothing to earn a pay raise? "I want more money, to do nothing more than what I already do".

How is that not being Greedy?

The owner of the business, isn't any more powerful or greedy, than you in your own home. If I come and mow your lawn, are you going to pay me a thousands dollars to do it? No? Why, are you greedy? Can I walk around your house with my muddy boots on? No? Why not, do you have too much power?

It's ridiculous... and just as ridiculous as you showing up at an employer, and demanding you control how the operation works, and how much you are paid. Same difference.

 

[beagle9]

Odd. I find small businesses run by a "family" are the nicest bosses to work for, in fact, I pro-bono or hugely discount my service fees simply to help them out because of how they treat their employees. Maybe it's a local thing as I generally stay local with small businesses...

It's not a local thing, because my jobs have been all over. However I did not say that "all" family business treat their employees like crap.

You read in, more than what was there. I said most of the abuses are in family business.

Family business is more to the extreme either way. Large corporations, are more in the center of both sides. They don't treat their employees overly good, or overly bad in my experience. Largely because everyone was hired from the outside, and worked their way in.

Family business, can be very generous and nice to employees. But family business, can also be the most abusive of any business, because "I own this place, and you do as I say, or get out!".

And even the best of family business employers, tend to... not always... but tend to have that nepotism element.

I worked at one company, where I found out after working there for 6 months, that I was one of exactly 4 people in the entire facility, that was not either family, or a friend of the family. Wasn't a bad place to work, nor did they treat you terribly, but.... you either married up... or you didn't go up. Every person was a relative, a spouse, a close friend of a relative. Me, and two guys, and one girl, were the only people in the place not related or friends, and all four of us, were the lowest paid employees of the place, and it was made indirectly clear, that no promotions were coming our way. In fact, one of the guys, had a degree in electrical engineering, and I found he was paid the same as me.

1. You worked all over the places. Maybe you cannot hold on to your jobs?
2. How in the world you knew how much other employees make? Are everyone displaying their pay check?
3. From what I read you complained a lot. Maybe you are a below average worker?

I've been openly told that x position is lowest paid in the company. And on other occasions, people are a bit loosed lipped with how much they make.

I actually complain very little about my own job. And there has only been two jobs where I was specifically treated very badly. In fact, other than the one above where the owner was insulting to me, all of my other examples were where other people, were treated badly, not me.

You don't see me complaining about low-pay. And there's a reason. I am a below average worker. I never have blamed my employer, for my uselessness, and worthless lack of skills. Ironically though, I have never been fired. I show up on time, work the entire time, and never cause any problems.

I'm just crappy useless human being, but not worth getting rid of, and replacing.

Most of the time, I'm laid off for lack of work, or quit because I hate my miserable life so much.

Ironically, I've had several times, where the manager tried to talk me out of quitting, and one demanded that I call him up and get my job back if I didn't like the new place. But that's more because I work for nothing, and don't complain, rather than any skill on my part. But I've had roughly 38 different jobs (roughly given I've forgotten more jobs I've had, than most people have ever had). So essentially your criticism is correct. OH well. Sucks to be me.

. You know the whole issue is simple really, but here you are coming up with scenario after scenario after scenario.... Why ? Minimum wage should be an entrance wage to any company that calls themselves a company. Then after say 6 months the employee should have earned his or her way out of the entrance pay system. If a company wants or doesn't care that a person not earn their way out of the minimum wage start pay, then I'd say the company would let a person work for free if the person really wanted to, and then tell all it's buddies over wine and steak about how much of an idiot the person is... Now is that right ? I knew a company that had management that preyed upon the weak minded in life, and I remember every time a worker would walk out the door, the management would say things like "there goes an idiot or dumb ace or make gestures that depicted what they figured an idiot represented. These people were pure evil, but sadly they were very wealthy as well. They worked people into the ground, and then they would totally disrespect them behind their backs. There sadly exist today some bad greedy people who are out there with way to much power, and one can't help but wonder how deep does it really go anymore ? Outing these types of individuals or groups is imperative to saving this nation, and restoring the true American Dream once more.

Again.... you are making a ton of assumptions.

ASSumptions:

1. The person in the minimum wage positions wishes to move up. Some do not. Yes they want to be paid more, but they don't want to do the work required to do that.

Again, I myself am one of these people. When I worked at the parts store, they tried to promote me to manager a dozen times. I refused. I hate management. I hate dealing with employees and customers. I don't want to manage people.

2. The company has an open position for higher pay. How do you know if there is a management position available? If there is no position available, the company can't pay new manager in a higher pay rate, to sit around and do nothing, because there is no work for them to do.

3. The employee is even worth promoting. Believe it or not, there are many employees, that are neither bad enough to fire, nor good enough to promote. I generally fit that category. But I've seen many others. For example at my last big job, we a had a guy in the stock room. One of the most lazy people I've ever met. But he did just enough, just barely enough, to get by without being fired.

He'd sit there, playing games on his phone, and talking to people. And our orders would come up... you know... late, but not *toooo* late. Not late enough to get into trouble.

And even then... sometimes you have an employee that works good, but is lousy to work with. You have an employee with a bad attitude, but works hard, and he never gets a promotion. Well of course not. If the manager promotes this guy, then the manager would have to deal with him and his lousy attitude all day long. Better to leave him there in the corner, because at least he works on his own well.

Aside from those false assumptions, when you claim others are greedy and have too much power.... your own story contradicts that.

How much power did the owner really have? The employee walked off the job, and what could the owner do about it? Nothing. So much power did he have? Because he complained after the guy left?

Let me explain what too much power really is. Under Socialism in Russia, employees that were in state run companies, if the boss didn't like you, you'd be sent to a show trial, declared a traitor to the communist government, sent to Siberia, where you were worked until you couldn't work anymore, and the left to starve to death.

Or in China, where people in state run factories would be shuttled out of the factory, and back to communal rice farms, where you would live out your life in poverty until you died.

Now compare that to "he called him an idiot as he left and found other work". Which one has "too much power"?

As far as Greedy..... who is being greedy? What do you think the motivation is for demanding a pay raise, when you have done nothing to earn a pay raise? "I want more money, to do nothing more than what I already do".

How is that not being Greedy?

The owner of the business, isn't any more powerful or greedy, than you in your own home. If I come and mow your lawn, are you going to pay me a thousands dollars to do it? No? Why, are you greedy? Can I walk around your house with my muddy boots on? No? Why not, do you have too much power?

It's ridiculous... and just as ridiculous as you showing up at an employer, and demanding you control how the operation works, and how much you are paid. Same difference.

. Your senario's are ridiculous, because all situations don't tie together like you try to make them. Anyone with half a brain can see your game here, and that is where you make excuses for people who choose to abuse people they figure are to ignorant to realize it. If you could convince the people of how to deal with that situation, then the rest would be OK, but do it in a way that's helpful..

 

[Andylusion]

It's not a local thing, because my jobs have been all over. However I did not say that "all" family business treat their employees like crap.

You read in, more than what was there. I said most of the abuses are in family business.

Family business is more to the extreme either way. Large corporations, are more in the center of both sides. They don't treat their employees overly good, or overly bad in my experience. Largely because everyone was hired from the outside, and worked their way in.

Family business, can be very generous and nice to employees. But family business, can also be the most abusive of any business, because "I own this place, and you do as I say, or get out!".

And even the best of family business employers, tend to... not always... but tend to have that nepotism element.

I worked at one company, where I found out after working there for 6 months, that I was one of exactly 4 people in the entire facility, that was not either family, or a friend of the family. Wasn't a bad place to work, nor did they treat you terribly, but.... you either married up... or you didn't go up. Every person was a relative, a spouse, a close friend of a relative. Me, and two guys, and one girl, were the only people in the place not related or friends, and all four of us, were the lowest paid employees of the place, and it was made indirectly clear, that no promotions were coming our way. In fact, one of the guys, had a degree in electrical engineering, and I found he was paid the same as me.

1. You worked all over the places. Maybe you cannot hold on to your jobs?
2. How in the world you knew how much other employees make? Are everyone displaying their pay check?
3. From what I read you complained a lot. Maybe you are a below average worker?

I've been openly told that x position is lowest paid in the company. And on other occasions, people are a bit loosed lipped with how much they make.

I actually complain very little about my own job. And there has only been two jobs where I was specifically treated very badly. In fact, other than the one above where the owner was insulting to me, all of my other examples were where other people, were treated badly, not me.

You don't see me complaining about low-pay. And there's a reason. I am a below average worker. I never have blamed my employer, for my uselessness, and worthless lack of skills. Ironically though, I have never been fired. I show up on time, work the entire time, and never cause any problems.

I'm just crappy useless human being, but not worth getting rid of, and replacing.

Most of the time, I'm laid off for lack of work, or quit because I hate my miserable life so much.

Ironically, I've had several times, where the manager tried to talk me out of quitting, and one demanded that I call him up and get my job back if I didn't like the new place. But that's more because I work for nothing, and don't complain, rather than any skill on my part. But I've had roughly 38 different jobs (roughly given I've forgotten more jobs I've had, than most people have ever had). So essentially your criticism is correct. OH well. Sucks to be me.

. You know the whole issue is simple really, but here you are coming up with scenario after scenario after scenario.... Why ? Minimum wage should be an entrance wage to any company that calls themselves a company. Then after say 6 months the employee should have earned his or her way out of the entrance pay system. If a company wants or doesn't care that a person not earn their way out of the minimum wage start pay, then I'd say the company would let a person work for free if the person really wanted to, and then tell all it's buddies over wine and steak about how much of an idiot the person is... Now is that right ? I knew a company that had management that preyed upon the weak minded in life, and I remember every time a worker would walk out the door, the management would say things like "there goes an idiot or dumb ace or make gestures that depicted what they figured an idiot represented. These people were pure evil, but sadly they were very wealthy as well. They worked people into the ground, and then they would totally disrespect them behind their backs. There sadly exist today some bad greedy people who are out there with way to much power, and one can't help but wonder how deep does it really go anymore ? Outing these types of individuals or groups is imperative to saving this nation, and restoring the true American Dream once more.

Again.... you are making a ton of assumptions.

ASSumptions:

1. The person in the minimum wage positions wishes to move up. Some do not. Yes they want to be paid more, but they don't want to do the work required to do that.

Again, I myself am one of these people. When I worked at the parts store, they tried to promote me to manager a dozen times. I refused. I hate management. I hate dealing with employees and customers. I don't want to manage people.

2. The company has an open position for higher pay. How do you know if there is a management position available? If there is no position available, the company can't pay new manager in a higher pay rate, to sit around and do nothing, because there is no work for them to do.

3. The employee is even worth promoting. Believe it or not, there are many employees, that are neither bad enough to fire, nor good enough to promote. I generally fit that category. But I've seen many others. For example at my last big job, we a had a guy in the stock room. One of the most lazy people I've ever met. But he did just enough, just barely enough, to get by without being fired.

He'd sit there, playing games on his phone, and talking to people. And our orders would come up... you know... late, but not *toooo* late. Not late enough to get into trouble.

And even then... sometimes you have an employee that works good, but is lousy to work with. You have an employee with a bad attitude, but works hard, and he never gets a promotion. Well of course not. If the manager promotes this guy, then the manager would have to deal with him and his lousy attitude all day long. Better to leave him there in the corner, because at least he works on his own well.

Aside from those false assumptions, when you claim others are greedy and have too much power.... your own story contradicts that.

How much power did the owner really have? The employee walked off the job, and what could the owner do about it? Nothing. So much power did he have? Because he complained after the guy left?

Let me explain what too much power really is. Under Socialism in Russia, employees that were in state run companies, if the boss didn't like you, you'd be sent to a show trial, declared a traitor to the communist government, sent to Siberia, where you were worked until you couldn't work anymore, and the left to starve to death.

Or in China, where people in state run factories would be shuttled out of the factory, and back to communal rice farms, where you would live out your life in poverty until you died.

Now compare that to "he called him an idiot as he left and found other work". Which one has "too much power"?

As far as Greedy..... who is being greedy? What do you think the motivation is for demanding a pay raise, when you have done nothing to earn a pay raise? "I want more money, to do nothing more than what I already do".

How is that not being Greedy?

The owner of the business, isn't any more powerful or greedy, than you in your own home. If I come and mow your lawn, are you going to pay me a thousands dollars to do it? No? Why, are you greedy? Can I walk around your house with my muddy boots on? No? Why not, do you have too much power?

It's ridiculous... and just as ridiculous as you showing up at an employer, and demanding you control how the operation works, and how much you are paid. Same difference.

. Your senario's are ridiculous, because all situations don't tie together like you try to make them. Anyone with half a brain can see your game here, and that is where you make excuses for people who choose to abuse people they figure are to ignorant to realize it. If you could convince the people of how to deal with that situation, then the rest would be OK, but do it in a way that's helpful..

You are telling me that every single company on the face of the planet, has a higher level position available at every moment, for every single low wage employee that wishes to move up?

That every single low-wage employee wishes to move up? You know this for a fact? (never mind that I myself have been in such a position)

And that every single low wage employee is worth promoting?

There is nothing ridiculous about my statements.

 

[beagle9]

1. You worked all over the places. Maybe you cannot hold on to your jobs?
2. How in the world you knew how much other employees make? Are everyone displaying their pay check?
3. From what I read you complained a lot. Maybe you are a below average worker?

I've been openly told that x position is lowest paid in the company. And on other occasions, people are a bit loosed lipped with how much they make.

I actually complain very little about my own job. And there has only been two jobs where I was specifically treated very badly. In fact, other than the one above where the owner was insulting to me, all of my other examples were where other people, were treated badly, not me.

You don't see me complaining about low-pay. And there's a reason. I am a below average worker. I never have blamed my employer, for my uselessness, and worthless lack of skills. Ironically though, I have never been fired. I show up on time, work the entire time, and never cause any problems.

I'm just crappy useless human being, but not worth getting rid of, and replacing.

Most of the time, I'm laid off for lack of work, or quit because I hate my miserable life so much.

Ironically, I've had several times, where the manager tried to talk me out of quitting, and one demanded that I call him up and get my job back if I didn't like the new place. But that's more because I work for nothing, and don't complain, rather than any skill on my part. But I've had roughly 38 different jobs (roughly given I've forgotten more jobs I've had, than most people have ever had). So essentially your criticism is correct. OH well. Sucks to be me.

. You know the whole issue is simple really, but here you are coming up with scenario after scenario after scenario.... Why ? Minimum wage should be an entrance wage to any company that calls themselves a company. Then after say 6 months the employee should have earned his or her way out of the entrance pay system. If a company wants or doesn't care that a person not earn their way out of the minimum wage start pay, then I'd say the company would let a person work for free if the person really wanted to, and then tell all it's buddies over wine and steak about how much of an idiot the person is... Now is that right ? I knew a company that had management that preyed upon the weak minded in life, and I remember every time a worker would walk out the door, the management would say things like "there goes an idiot or dumb ace or make gestures that depicted what they figured an idiot represented. These people were pure evil, but sadly they were very wealthy as well. They worked people into the ground, and then they would totally disrespect them behind their backs. There sadly exist today some bad greedy people who are out there with way to much power, and one can't help but wonder how deep does it really go anymore ? Outing these types of individuals or groups is imperative to saving this nation, and restoring the true American Dream once more.

Again.... you are making a ton of assumptions.

ASSumptions:

1. The person in the minimum wage positions wishes to move up. Some do not. Yes they want to be paid more, but they don't want to do the work required to do that.

Again, I myself am one of these people. When I worked at the parts store, they tried to promote me to manager a dozen times. I refused. I hate management. I hate dealing with employees and customers. I don't want to manage people.

2. The company has an open position for higher pay. How do you know if there is a management position available? If there is no position available, the company can't pay new manager in a higher pay rate, to sit around and do nothing, because there is no work for them to do.

3. The employee is even worth promoting. Believe it or not, there are many employees, that are neither bad enough to fire, nor good enough to promote. I generally fit that category. But I've seen many others. For example at my last big job, we a had a guy in the stock room. One of the most lazy people I've ever met. But he did just enough, just barely enough, to get by without being fired.

He'd sit there, playing games on his phone, and talking to people. And our orders would come up... you know... late, but not *toooo* late. Not late enough to get into trouble.

And even then... sometimes you have an employee that works good, but is lousy to work with. You have an employee with a bad attitude, but works hard, and he never gets a promotion. Well of course not. If the manager promotes this guy, then the manager would have to deal with him and his lousy attitude all day long. Better to leave him there in the corner, because at least he works on his own well.

Aside from those false assumptions, when you claim others are greedy and have too much power.... your own story contradicts that.

How much power did the owner really have? The employee walked off the job, and what could the owner do about it? Nothing. So much power did he have? Because he complained after the guy left?

Let me explain what too much power really is. Under Socialism in Russia, employees that were in state run companies, if the boss didn't like you, you'd be sent to a show trial, declared a traitor to the communist government, sent to Siberia, where you were worked until you couldn't work anymore, and the left to starve to death.

Or in China, where people in state run factories would be shuttled out of the factory, and back to communal rice farms, where you would live out your life in poverty until you died.

Now compare that to "he called him an idiot as he left and found other work". Which one has "too much power"?

As far as Greedy..... who is being greedy? What do you think the motivation is for demanding a pay raise, when you have done nothing to earn a pay raise? "I want more money, to do nothing more than what I already do".

How is that not being Greedy?

The owner of the business, isn't any more powerful or greedy, than you in your own home. If I come and mow your lawn, are you going to pay me a thousands dollars to do it? No? Why, are you greedy? Can I walk around your house with my muddy boots on? No? Why not, do you have too much power?

It's ridiculous... and just as ridiculous as you showing up at an employer, and demanding you control how the operation works, and how much you are paid. Same difference.

. Your senario's are ridiculous, because all situations don't tie together like you try to make them. Anyone with half a brain can see your game here, and that is where you make excuses for people who choose to abuse people they figure are to ignorant to realize it. If you could convince the people of how to deal with that situation, then the rest would be OK, but do it in a way that's helpful..

You are telling me that every single company on the face of the planet, has a higher level position available at every moment, for every single low wage employee that wishes to move up?

That every single low-wage employee wishes to move up? You know this for a fact? (never mind that I myself have been in such a position)

And that every single low wage employee is worth promoting?

There is nothing ridiculous about my statements.

. Not at the same moment persae, but of course within the natural order of things it all eventually takes place. You have an entrance time just like you have an entrance pay, and then for most employee's ten to 20 years later you leave but not at what you started out at.

 

[EverCurious]

Nice theory, but there's a few holes.

So I've got 10 employees who are bottom rung, a move up position opens up but the most "senior" MW worker isn't as good as a newer one. Why would a business promote based on seniority?

 

[Andylusion]

I've been openly told that x position is lowest paid in the company. And on other occasions, people are a bit loosed lipped with how much they make.

I actually complain very little about my own job. And there has only been two jobs where I was specifically treated very badly. In fact, other than the one above where the owner was insulting to me, all of my other examples were where other people, were treated badly, not me.

You don't see me complaining about low-pay. And there's a reason. I am a below average worker. I never have blamed my employer, for my uselessness, and worthless lack of skills. Ironically though, I have never been fired. I show up on time, work the entire time, and never cause any problems.

I'm just crappy useless human being, but not worth getting rid of, and replacing.

Most of the time, I'm laid off for lack of work, or quit because I hate my miserable life so much.

Ironically, I've had several times, where the manager tried to talk me out of quitting, and one demanded that I call him up and get my job back if I didn't like the new place. But that's more because I work for nothing, and don't complain, rather than any skill on my part. But I've had roughly 38 different jobs (roughly given I've forgotten more jobs I've had, than most people have ever had). So essentially your criticism is correct. OH well. Sucks to be me.

. You know the whole issue is simple really, but here you are coming up with scenario after scenario after scenario.... Why ? Minimum wage should be an entrance wage to any company that calls themselves a company. Then after say 6 months the employee should have earned his or her way out of the entrance pay system. If a company wants or doesn't care that a person not earn their way out of the minimum wage start pay, then I'd say the company would let a person work for free if the person really wanted to, and then tell all it's buddies over wine and steak about how much of an idiot the person is... Now is that right ? I knew a company that had management that preyed upon the weak minded in life, and I remember every time a worker would walk out the door, the management would say things like "there goes an idiot or dumb ace or make gestures that depicted what they figured an idiot represented. These people were pure evil, but sadly they were very wealthy as well. They worked people into the ground, and then they would totally disrespect them behind their backs. There sadly exist today some bad greedy people who are out there with way to much power, and one can't help but wonder how deep does it really go anymore ? Outing these types of individuals or groups is imperative to saving this nation, and restoring the true American Dream once more.

Again.... you are making a ton of assumptions.

ASSumptions:

1. The person in the minimum wage positions wishes to move up. Some do not. Yes they want to be paid more, but they don't want to do the work required to do that.

Again, I myself am one of these people. When I worked at the parts store, they tried to promote me to manager a dozen times. I refused. I hate management. I hate dealing with employees and customers. I don't want to manage people.

2. The company has an open position for higher pay. How do you know if there is a management position available? If there is no position available, the company can't pay new manager in a higher pay rate, to sit around and do nothing, because there is no work for them to do.

3. The employee is even worth promoting. Believe it or not, there are many employees, that are neither bad enough to fire, nor good enough to promote. I generally fit that category. But I've seen many others. For example at my last big job, we a had a guy in the stock room. One of the most lazy people I've ever met. But he did just enough, just barely enough, to get by without being fired.

He'd sit there, playing games on his phone, and talking to people. And our orders would come up... you know... late, but not *toooo* late. Not late enough to get into trouble.

And even then... sometimes you have an employee that works good, but is lousy to work with. You have an employee with a bad attitude, but works hard, and he never gets a promotion. Well of course not. If the manager promotes this guy, then the manager would have to deal with him and his lousy attitude all day long. Better to leave him there in the corner, because at least he works on his own well.

Aside from those false assumptions, when you claim others are greedy and have too much power.... your own story contradicts that.

How much power did the owner really have? The employee walked off the job, and what could the owner do about it? Nothing. So much power did he have? Because he complained after the guy left?

Let me explain what too much power really is. Under Socialism in Russia, employees that were in state run companies, if the boss didn't like you, you'd be sent to a show trial, declared a traitor to the communist government, sent to Siberia, where you were worked until you couldn't work anymore, and the left to starve to death.

Or in China, where people in state run factories would be shuttled out of the factory, and back to communal rice farms, where you would live out your life in poverty until you died.

Now compare that to "he called him an idiot as he left and found other work". Which one has "too much power"?

As far as Greedy..... who is being greedy? What do you think the motivation is for demanding a pay raise, when you have done nothing to earn a pay raise? "I want more money, to do nothing more than what I already do".

How is that not being Greedy?

The owner of the business, isn't any more powerful or greedy, than you in your own home. If I come and mow your lawn, are you going to pay me a thousands dollars to do it? No? Why, are you greedy? Can I walk around your house with my muddy boots on? No? Why not, do you have too much power?

It's ridiculous... and just as ridiculous as you showing up at an employer, and demanding you control how the operation works, and how much you are paid. Same difference.

. Your senario's are ridiculous, because all situations don't tie together like you try to make them. Anyone with half a brain can see your game here, and that is where you make excuses for people who choose to abuse people they figure are to ignorant to realize it. If you could convince the people of how to deal with that situation, then the rest would be OK, but do it in a way that's helpful..

You are telling me that every single company on the face of the planet, has a higher level position available at every moment, for every single low wage employee that wishes to move up?

That every single low-wage employee wishes to move up? You know this for a fact? (never mind that I myself have been in such a position)

And that every single low wage employee is worth promoting?

There is nothing ridiculous about my statements.

. Not at the same moment persae, but of course within the natural order of things it all eventually takes place. You have an entrance time just like you have an entrance pay, and then for most employee's ten to 20 years later you leave but not at what you started out at.

Why? Do you think because you sucked air, and showed up, that this alone means you deserve to make more money?

If you hire someone to mow your lawn, at $40 a mow. If he shows up twice, does that automatically mean you should pay him more than you agreed to pay him, simply because he showed up and sucked air?

The guy who delivers your news paper in the morning. Should you pay more money every month, because... hey he showed up and sucked air, so I should give him more money.

The guy who changes the oil in your car. Did you pay him a ton more this month, over last month, because.... hey he showed up! He sucked air both times! So I should pay $50 instead of $25 for an oil change.

Here's one of the problems I have with people on the left. You guys would never support such claim, if YOU YOURSELF had to pay out the money.

A self-employed mechanic, doesn't get paid more for replacing an alternator this year, than he did last years, simply because 12 months passed.

He shows up, "yeah, it's going to be $500 this time, because it was $300 last time"... .You'd find an other mechanic.

If a self employed HVAC guy shows up and fixed your A/C last year for $300, and this year he's like "Yeah I'm doing the same thing this time, but it will cost you $600" You'd find another A/C guy.

If you hired a baby sitter, so you and your wife could wine and dine for a night, (get a wife if you don't have one yet), and the baby sitter cost $40 for 3 hours of hitting 'play' on Hulu or whatever.... and then the next month, the Baby sitter was like "yeah I'm doing the exact same as I did before, but I want $100 now" You would find a new baby sitter.

The only way that a self-employed person earns more money, is if they do more. Fix more cars than they did before, fix more A/C than they did before, or baby sit more kids than they did before.

Yet in left-wing land, if that exact same self employed person, hires an employee to help them out, you expect that self employed person to pay the employee more and more over time, even if the employee hasn't done one single thing more to earn it.

The only reason any employee, anywhere, earns more money, is because they have produced something, worth paying more money for.

Even at Wendy's.... the only reason every employee is given a 6-month automatic raise, is because they are assuming after 6 months, you can ring up more people on the cash register because you are no longer hunting around the keyboard for the "combo" key.

You get a raise in pay... when you produce more value.

 

[beagle9]

Nice theory, but there's a few holes.

So I've got 10 employees who are bottom rung, a move up position opens up but the most "senior" MW worker isn't as good as a newer one. Why would a business promote based on seniority?

. I agree you don't promote based on seniority alone for sure, but everyone should at least be off of minimum wage by 6 months in a job. Then they will have entered the structural pay system the company has set up. After a year in a profitable company, an employee shouldn't have to go to the government to get subsidized government pay that goes along with their job pay to make ends meet. If a person can't make it after a year at a company, and then to have at least moved into a wage that needs no government assistance added, then they are in the wrong job in life. Companies who are paying employee's minimum wage after 2 years service, are those who are causing the whole problem that we are seeing the government pouncing on now. It is doing so because the government subsidizing companies who are milking the system has got to stop. The working citizens can't afford the bull crap anymore. Period.

 

[beagle9]

. You know the whole issue is simple really, but here you are coming up with scenario after scenario after scenario.... Why ? Minimum wage should be an entrance wage to any company that calls themselves a company. Then after say 6 months the employee should have earned his or her way out of the entrance pay system. If a company wants or doesn't care that a person not earn their way out of the minimum wage start pay, then I'd say the company would let a person work for free if the person really wanted to, and then tell all it's buddies over wine and steak about how much of an idiot the person is... Now is that right ? I knew a company that had management that preyed upon the weak minded in life, and I remember every time a worker would walk out the door, the management would say things like "there goes an idiot or dumb ace or make gestures that depicted what they figured an idiot represented. These people were pure evil, but sadly they were very wealthy as well. They worked people into the ground, and then they would totally disrespect them behind their backs. There sadly exist today some bad greedy people who are out there with way to much power, and one can't help but wonder how deep does it really go anymore ? Outing these types of individuals or groups is imperative to saving this nation, and restoring the true American Dream once more.

Again.... you are making a ton of assumptions.

ASSumptions:

1. The person in the minimum wage positions wishes to move up. Some do not. Yes they want to be paid more, but they don't want to do the work required to do that.

Again, I myself am one of these people. When I worked at the parts store, they tried to promote me to manager a dozen times. I refused. I hate management. I hate dealing with employees and customers. I don't want to manage people.

2. The company has an open position for higher pay. How do you know if there is a management position available? If there is no position available, the company can't pay new manager in a higher pay rate, to sit around and do nothing, because there is no work for them to do.

3. The employee is even worth promoting. Believe it or not, there are many employees, that are neither bad enough to fire, nor good enough to promote. I generally fit that category. But I've seen many others. For example at my last big job, we a had a guy in the stock room. One of the most lazy people I've ever met. But he did just enough, just barely enough, to get by without being fired.

He'd sit there, playing games on his phone, and talking to people. And our orders would come up... you know... late, but not *toooo* late. Not late enough to get into trouble.

And even then... sometimes you have an employee that works good, but is lousy to work with. You have an employee with a bad attitude, but works hard, and he never gets a promotion. Well of course not. If the manager promotes this guy, then the manager would have to deal with him and his lousy attitude all day long. Better to leave him there in the corner, because at least he works on his own well.

Aside from those false assumptions, when you claim others are greedy and have too much power.... your own story contradicts that.

How much power did the owner really have? The employee walked off the job, and what could the owner do about it? Nothing. So much power did he have? Because he complained after the guy left?

Let me explain what too much power really is. Under Socialism in Russia, employees that were in state run companies, if the boss didn't like you, you'd be sent to a show trial, declared a traitor to the communist government, sent to Siberia, where you were worked until you couldn't work anymore, and the left to starve to death.

Or in China, where people in state run factories would be shuttled out of the factory, and back to communal rice farms, where you would live out your life in poverty until you died.

Now compare that to "he called him an idiot as he left and found other work". Which one has "too much power"?

As far as Greedy..... who is being greedy? What do you think the motivation is for demanding a pay raise, when you have done nothing to earn a pay raise? "I want more money, to do nothing more than what I already do".

How is that not being Greedy?

The owner of the business, isn't any more powerful or greedy, than you in your own home. If I come and mow your lawn, are you going to pay me a thousands dollars to do it? No? Why, are you greedy? Can I walk around your house with my muddy boots on? No? Why not, do you have too much power?

It's ridiculous... and just as ridiculous as you showing up at an employer, and demanding you control how the operation works, and how much you are paid. Same difference.

. Your senario's are ridiculous, because all situations don't tie together like you try to make them. Anyone with half a brain can see your game here, and that is where you make excuses for people who choose to abuse people they figure are to ignorant to realize it. If you could convince the people of how to deal with that situation, then the rest would be OK, but do it in a way that's helpful..

You are telling me that every single company on the face of the planet, has a higher level position available at every moment, for every single low wage employee that wishes to move up?

That every single low-wage employee wishes to move up? You know this for a fact? (never mind that I myself have been in such a position)

And that every single low wage employee is worth promoting?

There is nothing ridiculous about my statements.

. Not at the same moment persae, but of course within the natural order of things it all eventually takes place. You have an entrance time just like you have an entrance pay, and then for most employee's ten to 20 years later you leave but not at what you started out at.

Why? Do you think because you sucked air, and showed up, that this alone means you deserve to make more money?

If you hire someone to mow your lawn, at $40 a mow. If he shows up twice, does that automatically mean you should pay him more than you agreed to pay him, simply because he showed up and sucked air?

The guy who delivers your news paper in the morning. Should you pay more money every month, because... hey he showed up and sucked air, so I should give him more money.

The guy who changes the oil in your car. Did you pay him a ton more this month, over last month, because.... hey he showed up! He sucked air both times! So I should pay $50 instead of $25 for an oil change.

Here's one of the problems I have with people on the left. You guys would never support such claim, if YOU YOURSELF had to pay out the money.

A self-employed mechanic, doesn't get paid more for replacing an alternator this year, than he did last years, simply because 12 months passed.

He shows up, "yeah, it's going to be $500 this time, because it was $300 last time"... .You'd find an other mechanic.

If a self employed HVAC guy shows up and fixed your A/C last year for $300, and this year he's like "Yeah I'm doing the same thing this time, but it will cost you $600" You'd find another A/C guy.

If you hired a baby sitter, so you and your wife could wine and dine for a night, (get a wife if you don't have one yet), and the baby sitter cost $40 for 3 hours of hitting 'play' on Hulu or whatever.... and then the next month, the Baby sitter was like "yeah I'm doing the exact same as I did before, but I want $100 now" You would find a new baby sitter.

The only way that a self-employed person earns more money, is if they do more. Fix more cars than they did before, fix more A/C than they did before, or baby sit more kids than they did before.

Yet in left-wing land, if that exact same self employed person, hires an employee to help them out, you expect that self employed person to pay the employee more and more over time, even if the employee hasn't done one single thing more to earn it.

The only reason any employee, anywhere, earns more money, is because they have produced something, worth paying more money for.

Even at Wendy's.... the only reason every employee is given a 6-month automatic raise, is because they are assuming after 6 months, you can ring up more people on the cash register because you are no longer hunting around the keyboard for the "combo" key.

You get a raise in pay... when you produce more value.

. Quit talking to people like there children please. There are no children in these conversations, so to save you all that writing just realize that everyone are adults here.

 

[EverCurious]

The problem is that fast food jobs are not meant to be "careers" ever. The entire structure of them is designed around offsetting the training and associated costs of having a high turn-over rate, having no-shows and generally bad workers. That's why a single McDonald's has 40-50 employees, to cover employees who don't show up, to cover things while training happens, etc.

This setup has benefits as well, it is structured in a way that is friendly to teens for working after school without running afoul of city/state ordinances on when and for how long minors are allowed to work (for example, in Alaska, you can only work 4 hours a day, 5 days a week - even with your parents permission.)

 

[Andylusion]

Nice theory, but there's a few holes.

So I've got 10 employees who are bottom rung, a move up position opens up but the most "senior" MW worker isn't as good as a newer one. Why would a business promote based on seniority?

. I agree you don't promote based on seniority alone for sure, but everyone should at least be off of minimum wage by 6 months in a job. Then they will have entered the structural pay system the company has set up. After a year in a profitable company, an employee shouldn't have to go to the government to get subsidized government pay that goes along with their job pay to make ends meet. If a person can't make it after a year at a company, and then to have at least moved into a wage that needs no government assistance added, then they are in the wrong job in life. Companies who are paying employee's minimum wage after 2 years service, are those who are causing the whole problem that we are seeing the government pouncing on now. It is doing so because the government subsidizing companies who are milking the system has got to stop. The working citizens can't afford the bull crap anymore. Period.

First off, if you are only talking about minimum wage.... There simply are not many people that are making minimum wage, unless they want to.

As I said before, even at Wendy's minimum wage is reserved usually for only those people who are working part time. Now if you are working part-time at Wendy's.... it's by choice. Wendy's doesn't advertise part time. The only reason they even hire people to work part-time is because Wendy's pretty much has to take whomever they can get, and if they can hire two people to work 20 hours each, to get the job done, that's what they do.

So again, when I said before you are assuming people want to move up the corporate ladder, you are making an assumption. That's not always the case.

And additionally to that, when you say that people should have moved into a position that needs no government assistance.... How do you define if they need no government assistance?

Do you define "they need it" as "they got it, therefore they must have needed it"? Because you can get food stamps, and make $70,000 a year. So the you are suggesting the Wendy's burger flipper should be paid at least $75,000 a year?

How do you define that? At what wage level, do you consider them no longer needing assistance?

 

[Andylusion]

The problem is that fast food jobs are not meant to be "careers" ever. The entire structure of them is designed around offsetting the training and associated costs of having a high turn-over rate, having no-shows and generally bad workers. That's why a single McDonald's has 40-50 employees, to cover employees who don't show up, to cover things while training happens, etc.

This setup has benefits as well, it is structured in a way that is friendly to teens for working after school without running afoul of city/state ordinances on when and for how long minors are allowed to work (for example, in Alaska, you can only work 4 hours a day, 5 days a week - even with your parents permission.)

More importantly, cheap food doesn't make enough money to pay a middle class wage.

You simply can't charge a customer $4 for a burger, and turn around and pay the employees $15 an hour. Wendy's doesn't have a private mint in the back yard, or a Department of Treasury to order some helicopter money from.

You magically pay people tons of money, and charge the customer pennies.

A while back there was a huge uproar over Norway McDonalds paying their employees $15/hour. Which is true. Because when you look at the menu, it was $15 for a burger.

I used to buy a burrito at Chipotle for $4.50. Now it's $6.75 after the minimum wage went up. I no longer go there. Too expensive.

 

[Flopper]

I'll tell you "people" something. I don't work in fast food, but people who do, do a lot more then "flip burgers". That's a term used by those who are clueless

That's true. Most people that think of them that way could not do their job.

 

[Andylusion]

Again.... you are making a ton of assumptions.

ASSumptions:

1. The person in the minimum wage positions wishes to move up. Some do not. Yes they want to be paid more, but they don't want to do the work required to do that.

Again, I myself am one of these people. When I worked at the parts store, they tried to promote me to manager a dozen times. I refused. I hate management. I hate dealing with employees and customers. I don't want to manage people.

2. The company has an open position for higher pay. How do you know if there is a management position available? If there is no position available, the company can't pay new manager in a higher pay rate, to sit around and do nothing, because there is no work for them to do.

3. The employee is even worth promoting. Believe it or not, there are many employees, that are neither bad enough to fire, nor good enough to promote. I generally fit that category. But I've seen many others. For example at my last big job, we a had a guy in the stock room. One of the most lazy people I've ever met. But he did just enough, just barely enough, to get by without being fired.

He'd sit there, playing games on his phone, and talking to people. And our orders would come up... you know... late, but not *toooo* late. Not late enough to get into trouble.

And even then... sometimes you have an employee that works good, but is lousy to work with. You have an employee with a bad attitude, but works hard, and he never gets a promotion. Well of course not. If the manager promotes this guy, then the manager would have to deal with him and his lousy attitude all day long. Better to leave him there in the corner, because at least he works on his own well.

Aside from those false assumptions, when you claim others are greedy and have too much power.... your own story contradicts that.

How much power did the owner really have? The employee walked off the job, and what could the owner do about it? Nothing. So much power did he have? Because he complained after the guy left?

Let me explain what too much power really is. Under Socialism in Russia, employees that were in state run companies, if the boss didn't like you, you'd be sent to a show trial, declared a traitor to the communist government, sent to Siberia, where you were worked until you couldn't work anymore, and the left to starve to death.

Or in China, where people in state run factories would be shuttled out of the factory, and back to communal rice farms, where you would live out your life in poverty until you died.

Now compare that to "he called him an idiot as he left and found other work". Which one has "too much power"?

As far as Greedy..... who is being greedy? What do you think the motivation is for demanding a pay raise, when you have done nothing to earn a pay raise? "I want more money, to do nothing more than what I already do".

How is that not being Greedy?

The owner of the business, isn't any more powerful or greedy, than you in your own home. If I come and mow your lawn, are you going to pay me a thousands dollars to do it? No? Why, are you greedy? Can I walk around your house with my muddy boots on? No? Why not, do you have too much power?

It's ridiculous... and just as ridiculous as you showing up at an employer, and demanding you control how the operation works, and how much you are paid. Same difference.

. Your senario's are ridiculous, because all situations don't tie together like you try to make them. Anyone with half a brain can see your game here, and that is where you make excuses for people who choose to abuse people they figure are to ignorant to realize it. If you could convince the people of how to deal with that situation, then the rest would be OK, but do it in a way that's helpful..

You are telling me that every single company on the face of the planet, has a higher level position available at every moment, for every single low wage employee that wishes to move up?

That every single low-wage employee wishes to move up? You know this for a fact? (never mind that I myself have been in such a position)

And that every single low wage employee is worth promoting?

There is nothing ridiculous about my statements.

. Not at the same moment persae, but of course within the natural order of things it all eventually takes place. You have an entrance time just like you have an entrance pay, and then for most employee's ten to 20 years later you leave but not at what you started out at.

Why? Do you think because you sucked air, and showed up, that this alone means you deserve to make more money?

If you hire someone to mow your lawn, at $40 a mow. If he shows up twice, does that automatically mean you should pay him more than you agreed to pay him, simply because he showed up and sucked air?

The guy who delivers your news paper in the morning. Should you pay more money every month, because... hey he showed up and sucked air, so I should give him more money.

The guy who changes the oil in your car. Did you pay him a ton more this month, over last month, because.... hey he showed up! He sucked air both times! So I should pay $50 instead of $25 for an oil change.

Here's one of the problems I have with people on the left. You guys would never support such claim, if YOU YOURSELF had to pay out the money.

A self-employed mechanic, doesn't get paid more for replacing an alternator this year, than he did last years, simply because 12 months passed.

He shows up, "yeah, it's going to be $500 this time, because it was $300 last time"... .You'd find an other mechanic.

If a self employed HVAC guy shows up and fixed your A/C last year for $300, and this year he's like "Yeah I'm doing the same thing this time, but it will cost you $600" You'd find another A/C guy.

If you hired a baby sitter, so you and your wife could wine and dine for a night, (get a wife if you don't have one yet), and the baby sitter cost $40 for 3 hours of hitting 'play' on Hulu or whatever.... and then the next month, the Baby sitter was like "yeah I'm doing the exact same as I did before, but I want $100 now" You would find a new baby sitter.

The only way that a self-employed person earns more money, is if they do more. Fix more cars than they did before, fix more A/C than they did before, or baby sit more kids than they did before.

Yet in left-wing land, if that exact same self employed person, hires an employee to help them out, you expect that self employed person to pay the employee more and more over time, even if the employee hasn't done one single thing more to earn it.

The only reason any employee, anywhere, earns more money, is because they have produced something, worth paying more money for.

Even at Wendy's.... the only reason every employee is given a 6-month automatic raise, is because they are assuming after 6 months, you can ring up more people on the cash register because you are no longer hunting around the keyboard for the "combo" key.

You get a raise in pay... when you produce more value.

. Quit talking to people like there children please. There are no children in these conversations, so to save you all that writing just realize that everyone are adults here.

I have no idea what you are talking about. But I see you didn't respond to anything, so I assume you agree with all my points, or can't respond to them.

 

[Andylusion]

I'll tell you "people" something. I don't work in fast food, but people who do, do a lot more then "flip burgers". That's a term used by those who are clueless

That's true. Most people that think of them that way could not do their job.

I've done their job. I worked at both Wendy, and McDonalds, and a Subway. I have done their job, and quite frankly anyone a notch above a trained monkey, could do their job.

It's actually easier now, than it was before. When I was there, I had to actually pick the correct cup size, and fill it with the correct drink, and amount of ice. Now the computer drops the cup, fills the ice, and adds the correct drink.



When I was there I had to actually flip the burgers over, and check to see they were done right. Now you slap a frozen patty on the grill and hit a button, and it pops up when it's ready.

When I was there I had to memorize a keyboard with little keys with the words of each meal, each option, and every extra thing, and how to enter coupons and so on. Now the cash registers are all pictures, and look like something Fisher Price made up, that a 4-year-old could operate. For example, when someone said "can you add onion" you had to find a normal sized key on a keyboard, that had "add onion" on it, in tiny letters because it fit on a normal keyboard key. It didn't come up with a giant picture of an onion on the screen that you tapped.

Honestly, the burger flipper job of old, was easy as cutting butter. If the "burger flipper" colloquialism is no longer valid, it would only be because that makes the job sound harder than what it is now.

In fact, this post is hilarious to me, because I now feel like the old man "when I was your age..." accept instead of walking up hill both ways to school, it was "I had to flip burgers with my bare hands, and mix soft drinks with raw ingredients from coke-a-cola!"

But it's true. I actually flipped burgers over. Now they just hit a button, and walk away.

 

[beagle9]

The problem is that fast food jobs are not meant to be "careers" ever. The entire structure of them is designed around offsetting the training and associated costs of having a high turn-over rate, having no-shows and generally bad workers. That's why a single McDonald's has 40-50 employees, to cover employees who don't show up, to cover things while training happens, etc.

This setup has benefits as well, it is structured in a way that is friendly to teens for working after school without running afoul of city/state ordinances on when and for how long minors are allowed to work (for example, in Alaska, you can only work 4 hours a day, 5 days a week - even with your parents permission.)

More importantly, cheap food doesn't make enough money to pay a middle class wage.

You simply can't charge a customer $4 for a burger, and turn around and pay the employees $15 an hour. Wendy's doesn't have a private mint in the back yard, or a Department of Treasury to order some helicopter money from.

You magically pay people tons of money, and charge the customer pennies.

A while back there was a huge uproar over Norway McDonalds paying their employees $15/hour. Which is true. Because when you look at the menu, it was $15 for a burger.

I used to buy a burrito at Chipotle for $4.50. Now it's $6.75 after the minimum wage went up. I no longer go there. Too expensive.

. Your premise to surmise the situation is in my opinion wrong, because if you have a company that ends up in a supply and demand chain that brings you 75¢ or better on the dollar, and you can make billions as is allowed to you because of the set up and products you sell, then wouldn't you be able to afford to create an individual brand that is talked about by your customers as theeee brand to shop for, and this because of everything that is known about your outfit, the products you sell, and that quality involved in it all ? How can you all talk about the employee's and what a company can and can't do for them as individuals in consideration of it all ? How about if the corporation has been paying them too low for way to long now, and then as soon as someone calls them on it, they then threaten the consumers with higher prices if anything is suggested as changes are needed ? Come onnn, your kidding me right ? I agree that Mcdonalds is a great place for teens to start working, and I agree that minimum wage should be just an entrance pay, and not seen as a living wage. I also think that Mcdonalds or any business if they don't have one, should have a structured pay system that has an entrance pay, and then a ladder system that ends with an exit pay if a person decides to stay on for twenty years or more.

 

[beagle9]

I'll tell you "people" something. I don't work in fast food, but people who do, do a lot more then "flip burgers". That's a term used by those who are clueless

That's true. Most people that think of them that way could not do their job.

I've done their job. I worked at both Wendy, and McDonalds, and a Subway. I have done their job, and quite frankly anyone a notch above a trained monkey, could do their job.

It's actually easier now, than it was before. When I was there, I had to actually pick the correct cup size, and fill it with the correct drink, and amount of ice. Now the computer drops the cup, fills the ice, and adds the correct drink.



When I was there I had to actually flip the burgers over, and check to see they were done right. Now you slap a frozen patty on the grill and hit a button, and it pops up when it's ready.

View attachment 72588

When I was there I had to memorize a keyboard with little keys with the words of each meal, each option, and every extra thing, and how to enter coupons and so on. Now the cash registers are all pictures, and look like something Fisher Price made up, that a 4-year-old could operate. For example, when someone said "can you add onion" you had to find a normal sized key on a keyboard, that had "add onion" on it, in tiny letters because it fit on a normal keyboard key. It didn't come up with a giant picture of an onion on the screen that you tapped.

View attachment 72589

Honestly, the burger flipper job of old, was easy as cutting butter. If the "burger flipper" colloquialism is no longer valid, it would only be because that makes the job sound harder than what it is now.

In fact, this post is hilarious to me, because I now feel like the old man "when I was your age..." accept instead of walking up hill both ways to school, it was "I had to flip burgers with my bare hands, and mix soft drinks with raw ingredients from coke-a-cola!"

But it's true. I actually flipped burgers over. Now they just hit a button, and walk away.

. Everything is going automated anyways, so using that as a threat is typical and ridiculous. The fact that automation is going to happen (saving corporations millions more), is all the more reason for the positions to become more quality, secure, long term if desired, and lucrative for teens or for who ever finds themselves on the climbing ladder rungs in their jobs they are appointed too or choose in their lives... Listen, there are people who end up in all different situations in life, and just because they might find themselves somewhere they are over qualified for, doesn't mean they should be abused in the situation. No matter what, there should be a structural ladder type pay system in every company that considers themselves a company. Now if someone decides to be a janitor all their life at a company, school or etc. then there is no excuse that they shouldn't have an entrance pay, then after that to become a part of a structural pay system that recognizes many factors in which meets the expectations of the job position, and then a participation in a profit sharing program. This was the case for many years in America, until greed started raging like a wid fire burning everything in it's path.

 

[EverCurious]

Business cannot base their budget on emotional factors... If they have 40% available for labor costs than that is all they have, regardless of how long the janitor has been working for them.

 

[beagle9]

Business cannot base their budget on emotional factors... If they have 40% available for labor costs than that is all they have, regardless of how long the janitor has been working for them.

. Agree if that's all they have, but how do you know what they have, and if they did what I said, then would you disagree with them for doing so ? Hmmm, is it that you like calaboration on the issue at or near the top or in certain circles, otherwise to say that if the employee's being treated badly at XYZ company can't run to ABC company in order to do better, and/or get a better situation going, then somehow that is a good thing in your opinion ?