This is why you shouldn't pay burger flippers 15 an hour

[iamwhatiseem]

LIBs fear high achievers. As long as there are high achievers in society it means whenever a lazy slack-ass LIB looks in the mirror they see themselves for what they are.
That's the reason in the Liberal Indoctrination Centers the kids are brainwashed into believing 'everyone is the same'. Everyone deserves a trophy. Competition is a dirty word.
What they end up being are a bunch of semi literate pussies/cowardly/'man-bun'/'metros'/who break into a sweat if anyone brings up the subject of actually GOD FORBID! competing against someone else for fear of failing.

In the same sense public schools are erasing masculinity. Male behavior is being discouraged and even prohibited. Playgrounds are now empty of equipment and basket ball nets...games like "tag" and playground football are no longer allowed..a boy makes a "gun" out of a poptart and he is suspended.
A society needs strong males for a variety of reasons.

 

[beagle9]

You say things like a business should do this or should do that yet you never seem to say what an person should do to take responsibility for his own life

Like so many people here you shift the burden of personal responsibility away from the individual and onto another entity be it government or a business.

I do not confuse the issue by holding people responsible for their lives. It is not a distraction. In fact I shine a light on the real problem here it is you that want to avoid the issue of where actual responsibility lies. Instead you'd rather blame an employer for not having the pay scale he "should" have which really means the one you think is the right one.

This is a perfect description of a liberal mind.
Liberals have zero respect for high achievers, in fact they loathe them. On the other hand liberals have great compassion and admiration for under achievers.

. Thanks for informing everyone that while on the plantation, they are to never question the master, and they are to be over joyed at the crumbs thrown to them on the slave Shack floor.. You see the slaves didn't slave for free.. They got a roof over their head with a dirt floor to boot, and they had corn to mash and a hog to eat etc. So who were they to question or ask for more ? I guess the tongue whips being brought out here, are equivalent to the whips when the slaves got out of line or to uppity back then. I guess they wanted to be slaves all their lives as well right ? I have actually seen that argument put up before also... Amazing.

Slavery ended in America on January 31st 1865

. I thought it was 1965...

 

[beagle9]

LIBs fear high achievers. As long as there are high achievers in society it means whenever a lazy slack-ass LIB looks in the mirror they see themselves for what they are.
That's the reason in the Liberal Indoctrination Centers the kids are brainwashed into believing 'everyone is the same'. Everyone deserves a trophy. Competition is a dirty word.
What they end up being are a bunch of semi literate pussies/cowardly/'man-bun'/'metros'/who break into a sweat if anyone brings up the subject of actually GOD FORBID! competing against someone else for fear of failing.

In the same sense public schools are erasing masculinity. Male behavior is being discouraged and even prohibited. Playgrounds are now empty of equipment and basket ball nets...games like "tag" and playground football are no longer allowed..a boy makes a "gun" out of a poptart and he is suspended.
A society needs strong males for a variety of reasons.

. Strong, dumb, under paid uneducated males right ? I agree with your other points made.

 

[Andylusion]

In my office, I had a rule. One year or you are gone. I hired trainees as a receptionist. If in a year they could not be promoted to secretary, I let them go. One receptionist asked me for a raise. I told her no. I would promote her if she thought she could do the work. She quit. She wanted a low level job as a career.

It ended well. 6 months later she was back ready for better.

I have seen people working entry level jobs all their lives. Why? What a waste.

Again....
What if that's what they want? "what a waste" who are you to make that judgement? I know people who make LESS than minimum wage, and that's what they wanted. Who are you to DEMAND others follow your DICTATION on their lives?

Do you believe in freedom of choice OR NOT?!?

. You know people who want less than minimum wage eh, and they don't want anymore than that ever eh ? Now that is an interesting group of friends or acquaintances you have there. Don't get mad if I don't believe such a thing.

My grandmother lived (when she was alive), in Portsmouth Ohio, way down south in the hills. There was a guy there with a wife and several kids, and they lived in a ground level flat, on the outskirts of town. He would load up his truck with a lawn mower, and mow lawns of retired people. He earned about $10,000 a year.

We ended up doing a little investigative on this, because granny decided to put Lawn mower man in the will, and we wanted to make sure that she wasn't being conned by the guy. Sure enough, he earned about $10,000 a year.

We talked with the dude. He was cool about it. He could have gotten a job at Wendy's working a straight 40 hours, and increased his income 50%. In fact, he was a likable guy, I betcha he could have been a manager, and earned at least $20K.

But.... he didn't want to. He liked setting his own hours, and he liked being able to "go huntin in the woods" as he said.

Now, by the way... I'm not suggesting that people don't want to earn more money. Everyone wants to earn more money. What they don't want to do, is do what is required to earn that more money. I'm sure if he could have earned $100,000 mowing 3 lawns a week, he'd have taken the cash.

But there are people who simply would rather do a menial job, and earn little. I'm one of those people actually. I haven't earned more than $20,000 in a single year yet. I was offered a job at Honda. Turned it down. Offered another as a store manager for an auto-parts store. Turned it down. I don't want to do all that.

Why should people like you... force me to do jobs I don't want, because you don't think anyone should have a low paying job?

. Your interpreting my post to say I would force you to do something, but I'm not sure where your getting that from.. The other poster talked about a lady in her office, and she said her office had a policy that you must apply yourself or no raises or job after s certain amount of time. I agreed with her in her specific rules pertaining to her office. Yes some places you can choose freely where you want to be in life, but not all jobs have that as their situation.

Well, I'm talking in the context of the post that I responded to.

In my office, I had a rule. One year or you are gone. I hired trainees as a receptionist. If in a year they could not be promoted to secretary, I let them go. One receptionist asked me for a raise. I told her no. I would promote her if she thought she could do the work. She quit. She wanted a low level job as a career.

I have seen people working entry level jobs all their lives. Why? What a waste.
​

The implication here is that people should not work an entry level job all their lives, and that it's a "waste".

But it's not a waste to the person doing that job. If that's the job they want, who are you to step in between the employee and employer, and say that shouldn't be the case?

Now if you run your own business, you can have any rule you want for your business, and I couldn't care less either way. Your business, your rules.

However, I have a massive issue with people who try to claim that because that's their rules, that it should be everyone's rules. That's stupidity. If the employee wants a lazy low-stress, low pay job flipping burgers over at Whooper Floppers, and the employer needs someone to Flop the Whoopers, then that is perfectly fine, and moral, to pay a guy $8/hour to Whooper Flop for his entire life.

 

[Andylusion]

LIBs fear high achievers. As long as there are high achievers in society it means whenever a lazy slack-ass LIB looks in the mirror they see themselves for what they are.
That's the reason in the Liberal Indoctrination Centers the kids are brainwashed into believing 'everyone is the same'. Everyone deserves a trophy. Competition is a dirty word.
What they end up being are a bunch of semi literate pussies/cowardly/'man-bun'/'metros'/who break into a sweat if anyone brings up the subject of actually GOD FORBID! competing against someone else for fear of failing.

In the same sense public schools are erasing masculinity. Male behavior is being discouraged and even prohibited. Playgrounds are now empty of equipment and basket ball nets...games like "tag" and playground football are no longer allowed..a boy makes a "gun" out of a poptart and he is suspended.
A society needs strong males for a variety of reasons.

. Strong, dumb, under paid uneducated males right ? I agree with your other points made.

lol....

What? Do you think weak, brilliant, over paid, over educated males are the typical CEOs of the world?

The average CEO is not super smart. They are not super educated. And usually they are not weak pathetic guys either.

 

[Andylusion]

You say things like a business should do this or should do that yet you never seem to say what an person should do to take responsibility for his own life

Like so many people here you shift the burden of personal responsibility away from the individual and onto another entity be it government or a business.

I do not confuse the issue by holding people responsible for their lives. It is not a distraction. In fact I shine a light on the real problem here it is you that want to avoid the issue of where actual responsibility lies. Instead you'd rather blame an employer for not having the pay scale he "should" have which really means the one you think is the right one.

This is a perfect description of a liberal mind.
Liberals have zero respect for high achievers, in fact they loathe them. On the other hand liberals have great compassion and admiration for under achievers.

. Thanks for informing everyone that while on the plantation, they are to never question the master, and they are to be over joyed at the crumbs thrown to them on the slave Shack floor.. You see the slaves didn't slave for free.. They got a roof over their head with a dirt floor to boot, and they had corn to mash and a hog to eat etc. So who were they to question or ask for more ? I guess the tongue whips being brought out here, are equivalent to the whips when the slaves got out of line or to uppity back then. I guess they wanted to be slaves all their lives as well right ? I have actually seen that argument put up before also... Amazing.

Years ago I got a job at a small, mom&pop shop. It was tiny little gas station and repair bay. The owner of the shop, was an old man in his 60s, whose son was taking over the business, and whose wife ran the office.

By the way...... all those left-wing idiots that hate the major corporations, and love tiny small business.... none of them must have worked for a mom&pop shop business before, because that's where people get abused the most. I had no chance, and no one had any chance of being promoted or given a raise in that business. Your only hope was to marry into the family.

Anyway, this guy treated me like dirt. He would say jokes about me, in front of customers or anyone, and insult me on a routine basis.

One day he had given me a couple of really hurtful insults in front of customer, and I did the task he asked me to, and when I was finished, he was talking with a customer, and I handed him my tools and badge, and simply said "I'm going home, have a good one".

It was the only job I ever walked off to this day. Just here's my stuff, have a nice day, and walked out.

People like you, keep talking about slavery and masters and blaw blaw blaw blaw blaw....... and honestly, it just sounds like "blaw blaw blaw blaw blaw whine blaw blwa blaw cry blaw blaw blaw."

No one in this country is a slave. You can walk off the job at any moment in time. Anyone can. Even Illegal immigrants, can walk right off the job... and nothing happens. No came and got me. No one stopped me on the way out. So all that whining, and crying.... doesn't ring true buddy. Does not ring true.

 

[beagle9]

You say things like a business should do this or should do that yet you never seem to say what an person should do to take responsibility for his own life

Like so many people here you shift the burden of personal responsibility away from the individual and onto another entity be it government or a business.

I do not confuse the issue by holding people responsible for their lives. It is not a distraction. In fact I shine a light on the real problem here it is you that want to avoid the issue of where actual responsibility lies. Instead you'd rather blame an employer for not having the pay scale he "should" have which really means the one you think is the right one.

This is a perfect description of a liberal mind.
Liberals have zero respect for high achievers, in fact they loathe them. On the other hand liberals have great compassion and admiration for under achievers.

. Thanks for informing everyone that while on the plantation, they are to never question the master, and they are to be over joyed at the crumbs thrown to them on the slave Shack floor.. You see the slaves didn't slave for free.. They got a roof over their head with a dirt floor to boot, and they had corn to mash and a hog to eat etc. So who were they to question or ask for more ? I guess the tongue whips being brought out here, are equivalent to the whips when the slaves got out of line or to uppity back then. I guess they wanted to be slaves all their lives as well right ? I have actually seen that argument put up before also... Amazing.

Years ago I got a job at a small, mom&pop shop. It was tiny little gas station and repair bay. The owner of the shop, was an old man in his 60s, whose son was taking over the business, and whose wife ran the office.

By the way...... all those left-wing idiots that hate the major corporations, and love tiny small business.... none of them must have worked for a mom&pop shop business before, because that's where people get abused the most. I had no chance, and no one had any chance of being promoted or given a raise in that business. Your only hope was to marry into the family.

Anyway, this guy treated me like dirt. He would say jokes about me, in front of customers or anyone, and insult me on a routine basis.

One day he had given me a couple of really hurtful insults in front of customer, and I did the task he asked me to, and when I was finished, he was talking with a customer, and I handed him my tools and badge, and simply said "I'm going home, have a good one".

It was the only job I ever walked off to this day. Just here's my stuff, have a nice day, and walked out.

People like you, keep talking about slavery and masters and blaw blaw blaw blaw blaw....... and honestly, it just sounds like "blaw blaw blaw blaw blaw whine blaw blwa blaw cry blaw blaw blaw."

No one in this country is a slave. You can walk off the job at any moment in time. Anyone can. Even Illegal immigrants, can walk right off the job... and nothing happens. No came and got me. No one stopped me on the way out. So all that whining, and crying.... doesn't ring true buddy. Does not ring true.

. With all that writing and whining you just did, all I read was blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah...LOL. No one will expect you to unite under one flag, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all, so don't sweat it.

 

[EverCurious]

Odd. I find small businesses run by a "family" are the nicest bosses to work for, in fact, I pro-bono or hugely discount my service fees simply to help them out because of how they treat their employees. Maybe it's a local thing as I generally stay local with small businesses...

 

[candycorn]

I'll tell you "people" something. I don't work in fast food, but people who do, do a lot more then "flip burgers". That's a term used by those who are clueless

Its the 3rd thread on this one topic...you wonder what kind of "kick" conservative shit bags get out of attacking the poor. I mean, I understand they were never loved as kids but surely even people as dense as this can see they are repeating the cycle.

Awwww.......

You understand what ?

Nothing.

Hate breeds hate.

 

[miketx]

Libtards breed libtards.

 

[Andylusion]

You say things like a business should do this or should do that yet you never seem to say what an person should do to take responsibility for his own life

Like so many people here you shift the burden of personal responsibility away from the individual and onto another entity be it government or a business.

I do not confuse the issue by holding people responsible for their lives. It is not a distraction. In fact I shine a light on the real problem here it is you that want to avoid the issue of where actual responsibility lies. Instead you'd rather blame an employer for not having the pay scale he "should" have which really means the one you think is the right one.

This is a perfect description of a liberal mind.
Liberals have zero respect for high achievers, in fact they loathe them. On the other hand liberals have great compassion and admiration for under achievers.

. Thanks for informing everyone that while on the plantation, they are to never question the master, and they are to be over joyed at the crumbs thrown to them on the slave Shack floor.. You see the slaves didn't slave for free.. They got a roof over their head with a dirt floor to boot, and they had corn to mash and a hog to eat etc. So who were they to question or ask for more ? I guess the tongue whips being brought out here, are equivalent to the whips when the slaves got out of line or to uppity back then. I guess they wanted to be slaves all their lives as well right ? I have actually seen that argument put up before also... Amazing.

Years ago I got a job at a small, mom&pop shop. It was tiny little gas station and repair bay. The owner of the shop, was an old man in his 60s, whose son was taking over the business, and whose wife ran the office.

By the way...... all those left-wing idiots that hate the major corporations, and love tiny small business.... none of them must have worked for a mom&pop shop business before, because that's where people get abused the most. I had no chance, and no one had any chance of being promoted or given a raise in that business. Your only hope was to marry into the family.

Anyway, this guy treated me like dirt. He would say jokes about me, in front of customers or anyone, and insult me on a routine basis.

One day he had given me a couple of really hurtful insults in front of customer, and I did the task he asked me to, and when I was finished, he was talking with a customer, and I handed him my tools and badge, and simply said "I'm going home, have a good one".

It was the only job I ever walked off to this day. Just here's my stuff, have a nice day, and walked out.

People like you, keep talking about slavery and masters and blaw blaw blaw blaw blaw....... and honestly, it just sounds like "blaw blaw blaw blaw blaw whine blaw blwa blaw cry blaw blaw blaw."

No one in this country is a slave. You can walk off the job at any moment in time. Anyone can. Even Illegal immigrants, can walk right off the job... and nothing happens. No came and got me. No one stopped me on the way out. So all that whining, and crying.... doesn't ring true buddy. Does not ring true.

. With all that writing and whining you just did, all I read was blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah...LOL. No one will expect you to unite under one flag, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all, so don't sweat it.

Of course. Because you can't argue a single thing I said. Not one.

 

[beagle9]

You say things like a business should do this or should do that yet you never seem to say what an person should do to take responsibility for his own life

Like so many people here you shift the burden of personal responsibility away from the individual and onto another entity be it government or a business.

I do not confuse the issue by holding people responsible for their lives. It is not a distraction. In fact I shine a light on the real problem here it is you that want to avoid the issue of where actual responsibility lies. Instead you'd rather blame an employer for not having the pay scale he "should" have which really means the one you think is the right one.

This is a perfect description of a liberal mind.
Liberals have zero respect for high achievers, in fact they loathe them. On the other hand liberals have great compassion and admiration for under achievers.

. Thanks for informing everyone that while on the plantation, they are to never question the master, and they are to be over joyed at the crumbs thrown to them on the slave Shack floor.. You see the slaves didn't slave for free.. They got a roof over their head with a dirt floor to boot, and they had corn to mash and a hog to eat etc. So who were they to question or ask for more ? I guess the tongue whips being brought out here, are equivalent to the whips when the slaves got out of line or to uppity back then. I guess they wanted to be slaves all their lives as well right ? I have actually seen that argument put up before also... Amazing.

Years ago I got a job at a small, mom&pop shop. It was tiny little gas station and repair bay. The owner of the shop, was an old man in his 60s, whose son was taking over the business, and whose wife ran the office.

By the way...... all those left-wing idiots that hate the major corporations, and love tiny small business.... none of them must have worked for a mom&pop shop business before, because that's where people get abused the most. I had no chance, and no one had any chance of being promoted or given a raise in that business. Your only hope was to marry into the family.

Anyway, this guy treated me like dirt. He would say jokes about me, in front of customers or anyone, and insult me on a routine basis.

One day he had given me a couple of really hurtful insults in front of customer, and I did the task he asked me to, and when I was finished, he was talking with a customer, and I handed him my tools and badge, and simply said "I'm going home, have a good one".

It was the only job I ever walked off to this day. Just here's my stuff, have a nice day, and walked out.

People like you, keep talking about slavery and masters and blaw blaw blaw blaw blaw....... and honestly, it just sounds like "blaw blaw blaw blaw blaw whine blaw blwa blaw cry blaw blaw blaw."

No one in this country is a slave. You can walk off the job at any moment in time. Anyone can. Even Illegal immigrants, can walk right off the job... and nothing happens. No came and got me. No one stopped me on the way out. So all that whining, and crying.... doesn't ring true buddy. Does not ring true.

. With all that writing and whining you just did, all I read was blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah...LOL. No one will expect you to unite under one flag, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all, so don't sweat it.

Of course. Because you can't argue a single thing I said. Not one.

. Who wants to play your game ? No one.... Your bias has your mind searching for people to entertain your ego, but no takers are gullible enough to feed it. Now if you want to have an honest conversation, then we can, but let me just say that I will be able to tell immediately when your bias gets in the way of your honesty.

 

[Andylusion]

Odd. I find small businesses run by a "family" are the nicest bosses to work for, in fact, I pro-bono or hugely discount my service fees simply to help them out because of how they treat their employees. Maybe it's a local thing as I generally stay local with small businesses...

It's not a local thing, because my jobs have been all over. However I did not say that "all" family business treat their employees like crap.

You read in, more than what was there. I said most of the abuses are in family business.

Family business is more to the extreme either way. Large corporations, are more in the center of both sides. They don't treat their employees overly good, or overly bad in my experience. Largely because everyone was hired from the outside, and worked their way in.

Family business, can be very generous and nice to employees. But family business, can also be the most abusive of any business, because "I own this place, and you do as I say, or get out!".

And even the best of family business employers, tend to... not always... but tend to have that nepotism element.

I worked at one company, where I found out after working there for 6 months, that I was one of exactly 4 people in the entire facility, that was not either family, or a friend of the family. Wasn't a bad place to work, nor did they treat you terribly, but.... you either married up... or you didn't go up. Every person was a relative, a spouse, a close friend of a relative. Me, and two guys, and one girl, were the only people in the place not related or friends, and all four of us, were the lowest paid employees of the place, and it was made indirectly clear, that no promotions were coming our way. In fact, one of the guys, had a degree in electrical engineering, and I found he was paid the same as me.

 

[Andylusion]

This is a perfect description of a liberal mind.
Liberals have zero respect for high achievers, in fact they loathe them. On the other hand liberals have great compassion and admiration for under achievers.

. Thanks for informing everyone that while on the plantation, they are to never question the master, and they are to be over joyed at the crumbs thrown to them on the slave Shack floor.. You see the slaves didn't slave for free.. They got a roof over their head with a dirt floor to boot, and they had corn to mash and a hog to eat etc. So who were they to question or ask for more ? I guess the tongue whips being brought out here, are equivalent to the whips when the slaves got out of line or to uppity back then. I guess they wanted to be slaves all their lives as well right ? I have actually seen that argument put up before also... Amazing.

Years ago I got a job at a small, mom&pop shop. It was tiny little gas station and repair bay. The owner of the shop, was an old man in his 60s, whose son was taking over the business, and whose wife ran the office.

By the way...... all those left-wing idiots that hate the major corporations, and love tiny small business.... none of them must have worked for a mom&pop shop business before, because that's where people get abused the most. I had no chance, and no one had any chance of being promoted or given a raise in that business. Your only hope was to marry into the family.

Anyway, this guy treated me like dirt. He would say jokes about me, in front of customers or anyone, and insult me on a routine basis.

One day he had given me a couple of really hurtful insults in front of customer, and I did the task he asked me to, and when I was finished, he was talking with a customer, and I handed him my tools and badge, and simply said "I'm going home, have a good one".

It was the only job I ever walked off to this day. Just here's my stuff, have a nice day, and walked out.

People like you, keep talking about slavery and masters and blaw blaw blaw blaw blaw....... and honestly, it just sounds like "blaw blaw blaw blaw blaw whine blaw blwa blaw cry blaw blaw blaw."

No one in this country is a slave. You can walk off the job at any moment in time. Anyone can. Even Illegal immigrants, can walk right off the job... and nothing happens. No came and got me. No one stopped me on the way out. So all that whining, and crying.... doesn't ring true buddy. Does not ring true.

. With all that writing and whining you just did, all I read was blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah...LOL. No one will expect you to unite under one flag, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all, so don't sweat it.

Of course. Because you can't argue a single thing I said. Not one.

. Who wants to play your game ? No one.... Your bias has your mind searching for people to entertain your ego, but no takers are gullible enough to feed it. Now if you want to have an honest conversation, then we can, but let me just say that I will be able to tell immediately when your bias gets in the way of your honesty.

I don't care. You are talking to me like I care what you or others, think about me as a person. I don't. You have never matter to me in any way.

This is a forum. Generally the idea is to discuss topics and respond. I gave some clear cut arguments, and an example to back those arguments. Can you respond to that, or not? If not, you lose. Have a nice day, here's a copy of the home game.

If you have a response, give it. I'll listen to you. But if you are going to say "I'm not going to answer your arguments, because I think you are a..... (insert dumb irrelevant reason here)" OK...... That's fine. You lost. Thanks for stopping by. The class is dismissed. Try to do your homework next time, and maybe you'll have an actually response instead of lame personal insults.

So which is it? (I wager I already know the answer: You can't respond, but I'm giving you a chance).

 

[beagle9]

. Thanks for informing everyone that while on the plantation, they are to never question the master, and they are to be over joyed at the crumbs thrown to them on the slave Shack floor.. You see the slaves didn't slave for free.. They got a roof over their head with a dirt floor to boot, and they had corn to mash and a hog to eat etc. So who were they to question or ask for more ? I guess the tongue whips being brought out here, are equivalent to the whips when the slaves got out of line or to uppity back then. I guess they wanted to be slaves all their lives as well right ? I have actually seen that argument put up before also... Amazing.

Years ago I got a job at a small, mom&pop shop. It was tiny little gas station and repair bay. The owner of the shop, was an old man in his 60s, whose son was taking over the business, and whose wife ran the office.

By the way...... all those left-wing idiots that hate the major corporations, and love tiny small business.... none of them must have worked for a mom&pop shop business before, because that's where people get abused the most. I had no chance, and no one had any chance of being promoted or given a raise in that business. Your only hope was to marry into the family.

Anyway, this guy treated me like dirt. He would say jokes about me, in front of customers or anyone, and insult me on a routine basis.

One day he had given me a couple of really hurtful insults in front of customer, and I did the task he asked me to, and when I was finished, he was talking with a customer, and I handed him my tools and badge, and simply said "I'm going home, have a good one".

It was the only job I ever walked off to this day. Just here's my stuff, have a nice day, and walked out.

People like you, keep talking about slavery and masters and blaw blaw blaw blaw blaw....... and honestly, it just sounds like "blaw blaw blaw blaw blaw whine blaw blwa blaw cry blaw blaw blaw."

No one in this country is a slave. You can walk off the job at any moment in time. Anyone can. Even Illegal immigrants, can walk right off the job... and nothing happens. No came and got me. No one stopped me on the way out. So all that whining, and crying.... doesn't ring true buddy. Does not ring true.

. With all that writing and whining you just did, all I read was blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah...LOL. No one will expect you to unite under one flag, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all, so don't sweat it.

Of course. Because you can't argue a single thing I said. Not one.

. Who wants to play your game ? No one.... Your bias has your mind searching for people to entertain your ego, but no takers are gullible enough to feed it. Now if you want to have an honest conversation, then we can, but let me just say that I will be able to tell immediately when your bias gets in the way of your honesty.

I don't care. You are talking to me like I care what you or others, think about me as a person. I don't. You have never matter to me in any way.

This is a forum. Generally the idea is to discuss topics and respond. I gave some clear cut arguments, and an example to back those arguments. Can you respond to that, or not? If not, you lose. Have a nice day, here's a copy of the home game.

If you have a response, give it. I'll listen to you. But if you are going to say "I'm not going to answer your arguments, because I think you are a..... (insert dumb irrelevant reason here)" OK...... That's fine. You lost. Thanks for stopping by. The class is dismissed. Try to do your homework next time, and maybe you'll have an actually response instead of lame personal insults.

So which is it? (I wager I already know the answer: You can't respond, but I'm giving you a chance).

. If anyone cares to read your bull, then they will see your bias, and that your rants are loaded with insults when you can't get your way in a conversation. Now if you care to read to understand my position of the minimum wage bill or law, then you would see that you are wrong in your attacking me. You come into a conversation, read a few post, and (bam), you think you instantly know peoples positions on the issue when you don't. Quite amusing really.

 

[EverCurious]

It's not a local thing, because my jobs have been all over. However I did not say that "all" family business treat their employees like crap.

You read in, more than what was there. I said most of the abuses are in family business.

Family business is more to the extreme either way. Large corporations, are more in the center of both sides. They don't treat their employees overly good, or overly bad in my experience. Largely because everyone was hired from the outside, and worked their way in.

Family business, can be very generous and nice to employees. But family business, can also be the most abusive of any business, because "I own this place, and you do as I say, or get out!".

And even the best of family business employers, tend to... not always... but tend to have that nepotism element.

I worked at one company, where I found out after working there for 6 months, that I was one of exactly 4 people in the entire facility, that was not either family, or a friend of the family. Wasn't a bad place to work, nor did they treat you terribly, but.... you either married up... or you didn't go up. Every person was a relative, a spouse, a close friend of a relative. Me, and two guys, and one girl, were the only people in the place not related or friends, and all four of us, were the lowest paid employees of the place, and it was made indirectly clear, that no promotions were coming our way. In fact, one of the guys, had a degree in electrical engineering, and I found he was paid the same as me.

I'd gone into the promotion/pay raise stuff with smaller businesses in depth on USMB before (I believe it was in this thread but it could have been a different one), and yes, there is a trade off decision you have to make; better work environment/less stress/job security in exchange for pay raises, so I'll agree with you on that.

However, I've worked for a /bunch/ of corps and they are far, far more "Do as I say or GTFO" than small businesses tend to be. Corps. have a very structured system of advancement and very clear boundaries for authority/privilege. Small businesses tend to be a lot more flexible on authority and responsibilities - if Jane can't handle X then Joe will pick it up and take the time to teach them how to do it. Corp positions usually come with a heavier work load and typically they don't have time for that - I spend more my time teaching people how to do things in Corp (especially computer stuff) though generally they just want me to watch the ship until they find their new person. In small business I almost always end up teaching managers who have been promoted beyond their abilities and have no idea what they're doing (or occasionally owners who aren't making the best financial business decisions.)

 

[Andylusion]

It's not a local thing, because my jobs have been all over. However I did not say that "all" family business treat their employees like crap.

You read in, more than what was there. I said most of the abuses are in family business.

Family business is more to the extreme either way. Large corporations, are more in the center of both sides. They don't treat their employees overly good, or overly bad in my experience. Largely because everyone was hired from the outside, and worked their way in.

Family business, can be very generous and nice to employees. But family business, can also be the most abusive of any business, because "I own this place, and you do as I say, or get out!".

And even the best of family business employers, tend to... not always... but tend to have that nepotism element.

I worked at one company, where I found out after working there for 6 months, that I was one of exactly 4 people in the entire facility, that was not either family, or a friend of the family. Wasn't a bad place to work, nor did they treat you terribly, but.... you either married up... or you didn't go up. Every person was a relative, a spouse, a close friend of a relative. Me, and two guys, and one girl, were the only people in the place not related or friends, and all four of us, were the lowest paid employees of the place, and it was made indirectly clear, that no promotions were coming our way. In fact, one of the guys, had a degree in electrical engineering, and I found he was paid the same as me.

I'd gone into the promotion/pay raise stuff with smaller businesses in depth on USMB before (I believe it was in this thread but it could have been a different one), and yes, there is a trade off decision you have to make; better work environment/less stress/job security in exchange for pay raises, so I'll agree with you on that.

However, I've worked for a /bunch/ of corps and they are far, far more "Do as I say or GTFO" than small businesses tend to be. Corps. have a very structured system of advancement and very clear boundaries for authority/privilege. Small businesses tend to be a lot more flexible on authority and responsibilities - if Jane can't handle X then Joe will pick it up and take the time to teach them how to do it. Corp positions usually come with a heavier work load and typically they don't have time for that - I spend more my time teaching people how to do things in Corp (especially computer stuff) though generally they just want me to watch the ship until they find their new person. In small business I almost always end up teaching managers who have been promoted beyond their abilities and have no idea what they're doing (or occasionally owners who aren't making the best financial business decisions.)

Wow, ok. That's just not at all my experience.

I'm wondering if the difference between us, is that I work for really small business, and a real small business doesn't have the money to hire someone like you. Thus you don't see the businesses I'm talking about.

Like the whole Jane can't handle X, and Joe picks it up. That usually doesn't happen in the businesses I'm talking about because everyone is already doing as much as they can. The business usually isn't big enough to hire people who have 'spare time'. If Jane can't handle it, then you normally need a new Jane. I'm working non-stop when I enter the front door. I couldn't pick up someone's work load if I wanted to.

Another difference is you seem to be talking about work / production structure. Small business being more flexible in how they do things.

I'm talking about literally how you treat another human being. At some corporations if someone says something even 'harsh' to another employee, it's stamped out pretty quick. They take you to HR, and they have you sign a paper "This conduct is unacceptable", and it normally happens in 15 minutes or less. That kind of behavior is unacceptable.

In small business, like what I'm talking about, I've witness people literally screamed at... just flat out YELLING and SCREAMING... and then nothing. Nothing happens. You get this "oh that's just phil... he gets wound up now and then...." as if that's completely acceptable now because Phil is a friend of the family, or married the daughter or something...

I'm not talking about rigid conforming to corporate policy. On that, you are absolutely right. Corporations are like that. That's not abuse. It may be restrictive and annoying, but I'll take restrictive and annoying over being abused ANY DAY.

And I'm not suggesting that this is because corporations are benevolent and altruistic. Most corporations know that the worse the employee environment, the more money you have to pay them to stay on. Small business, especially mom&pop shops, don't care.

You never walk through a Walmart, and find employees cussing each other out. (at least I have never). I did walk into a small independent pizza shop, and find two employees cursing each other out. Needless to say, I didn't go there again.

 

[Andylusion]

Years ago I got a job at a small, mom&pop shop. It was tiny little gas station and repair bay. The owner of the shop, was an old man in his 60s, whose son was taking over the business, and whose wife ran the office.

By the way...... all those left-wing idiots that hate the major corporations, and love tiny small business.... none of them must have worked for a mom&pop shop business before, because that's where people get abused the most. I had no chance, and no one had any chance of being promoted or given a raise in that business. Your only hope was to marry into the family.

Anyway, this guy treated me like dirt. He would say jokes about me, in front of customers or anyone, and insult me on a routine basis.

One day he had given me a couple of really hurtful insults in front of customer, and I did the task he asked me to, and when I was finished, he was talking with a customer, and I handed him my tools and badge, and simply said "I'm going home, have a good one".

It was the only job I ever walked off to this day. Just here's my stuff, have a nice day, and walked out.

People like you, keep talking about slavery and masters and blaw blaw blaw blaw blaw....... and honestly, it just sounds like "blaw blaw blaw blaw blaw whine blaw blwa blaw cry blaw blaw blaw."

No one in this country is a slave. You can walk off the job at any moment in time. Anyone can. Even Illegal immigrants, can walk right off the job... and nothing happens. No came and got me. No one stopped me on the way out. So all that whining, and crying.... doesn't ring true buddy. Does not ring true.

. With all that writing and whining you just did, all I read was blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah...LOL. No one will expect you to unite under one flag, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all, so don't sweat it.

Of course. Because you can't argue a single thing I said. Not one.

. Who wants to play your game ? No one.... Your bias has your mind searching for people to entertain your ego, but no takers are gullible enough to feed it. Now if you want to have an honest conversation, then we can, but let me just say that I will be able to tell immediately when your bias gets in the way of your honesty.

I don't care. You are talking to me like I care what you or others, think about me as a person. I don't. You have never matter to me in any way.

This is a forum. Generally the idea is to discuss topics and respond. I gave some clear cut arguments, and an example to back those arguments. Can you respond to that, or not? If not, you lose. Have a nice day, here's a copy of the home game.

If you have a response, give it. I'll listen to you. But if you are going to say "I'm not going to answer your arguments, because I think you are a..... (insert dumb irrelevant reason here)" OK...... That's fine. You lost. Thanks for stopping by. The class is dismissed. Try to do your homework next time, and maybe you'll have an actually response instead of lame personal insults.

So which is it? (I wager I already know the answer: You can't respond, but I'm giving you a chance).

. If anyone cares to read your bull, then they will see your bias, and that your rants are loaded with insults when you can't get your way in a conversation. Now if you care to read to understand my position of the minimum wage bill or law, then you would see that you are wrong in your attacking me. You come into a conversation, read a few post, and (bam), you think you instantly know peoples positions on the issue when you don't. Quite amusing really.

Years ago I got a job at a small, mom&pop shop. It was tiny little gas station and repair bay. The owner of the shop, was an old man in his 60s, whose son was taking over the business, and whose wife ran the office.

By the way...... all those left-wing idiots that hate the major corporations, and love tiny small business.... none of them must have worked for a mom&pop shop business before, because that's where people get abused the most. I had no chance, and no one had any chance of being promoted or given a raise in that business. Your only hope was to marry into the family.

Anyway, this guy treated me like dirt. He would say jokes about me, in front of customers or anyone, and insult me on a routine basis.

One day he had given me a couple of really hurtful insults in front of customer, and I did the task he asked me to, and when I was finished, he was talking with a customer, and I handed him my tools and badge, and simply said "I'm going home, have a good one".

It was the only job I ever walked off to this day. Just here's my stuff, have a nice day, and walked out.

People like you, keep talking about slavery and masters and blaw blaw blaw blaw blaw....... and honestly, it just sounds like "blaw blaw blaw blaw blaw whine blaw blwa blaw cry blaw blaw blaw."

No one in this country is a slave. You can walk off the job at any moment in time. Anyone can. Even Illegal immigrants, can walk right off the job... and nothing happens. No came and got me. No one stopped me on the way out. So all that whining, and crying.... doesn't ring true buddy. Does not ring true.

. With all that writing and whining you just did, all I read was blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah...LOL. No one will expect you to unite under one flag, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all, so don't sweat it.

Of course. Because you can't argue a single thing I said. Not one.

. Who wants to play your game ? No one.... Your bias has your mind searching for people to entertain your ego, but no takers are gullible enough to feed it. Now if you want to have an honest conversation, then we can, but let me just say that I will be able to tell immediately when your bias gets in the way of your honesty.

I don't care. You are talking to me like I care what you or others, think about me as a person. I don't. You have never matter to me in any way.

This is a forum. Generally the idea is to discuss topics and respond. I gave some clear cut arguments, and an example to back those arguments. Can you respond to that, or not? If not, you lose. Have a nice day, here's a copy of the home game.

If you have a response, give it. I'll listen to you. But if you are going to say "I'm not going to answer your arguments, because I think you are a..... (insert dumb irrelevant reason here)" OK...... That's fine. You lost. Thanks for stopping by. The class is dismissed. Try to do your homework next time, and maybe you'll have an actually response instead of lame personal insults.

So which is it? (I wager I already know the answer: You can't respond, but I'm giving you a chance).

. If anyone cares to read your bull, then they will see your bias, and that your rants are loaded with insults when you can't get your way in a conversation. Now if you care to read to understand my position of the minimum wage bill or law, then you would see that you are wrong in your attacking me. You come into a conversation, read a few post, and (bam), you think you instantly know peoples positions on the issue when you don't. Quite amusing really.

But they are not. I did not insult you. I may have insulted left-wing belief, but that isn't a personal insult.

You brought up slavery. I pointed out there is no slavery in the US. When I have felt the need to quit a job, I simply quit the job. Slavery would mean that I didn't have that option.

So slavery is a false argument.

You responded with....

. With all that writing and whining you just did, all I read was blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah...LOL. No one will expect you to unite under one flag, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all, so don't sweat it.
​

Which didn't contradict anything I said. And then....

. Who wants to play your game ? No one....​

Which is ironic given someone agreed with that post.
So apparently some people do agree with my claims... claims you still failed to address.

 

[EverCurious]

Wow, ok. That's just not at all my experience.

I'm wondering if the difference between us, is that I work for really small business, and a real small business doesn't have the money to hire someone like you. Thus you don't see the businesses I'm talking about.

Like the whole Jane can't handle X, and Joe picks it up. That usually doesn't happen in the businesses I'm talking about because everyone is already doing as much as they can. The business usually isn't big enough to hire people who have 'spare time'. If Jane can't handle it, then you normally need a new Jane. I'm working non-stop when I enter the front door. I couldn't pick up someone's work load if I wanted to.

Another difference is you seem to be talking about work / production structure. Small business being more flexible in how they do things.

I'm talking about literally how you treat another human being. At some corporations if someone says something even 'harsh' to another employee, it's stamped out pretty quick. They take you to HR, and they have you sign a paper "This conduct is unacceptable", and it normally happens in 15 minutes or less. That kind of behavior is unacceptable.

In small business, like what I'm talking about, I've witness people literally screamed at... just flat out YELLING and SCREAMING... and then nothing. Nothing happens. You get this "oh that's just phil... he gets wound up now and then...." as if that's completely acceptable now because Phil is a friend of the family, or married the daughter or something...

I'm not talking about rigid conforming to corporate policy. On that, you are absolutely right. Corporations are like that. That's not abuse. It may be restrictive and annoying, but I'll take restrictive and annoying over being abused ANY DAY.

And I'm not suggesting that this is because corporations are benevolent and altruistic. Most corporations know that the worse the employee environment, the more money you have to pay them to stay on. Small business, especially mom&pop shops, don't care.

You never walk through a Walmart, and find employees cussing each other out. (at least I have never). I did walk into a small independent pizza shop, and find two employees cursing each other out. Needless to say, I didn't go there again.

hmm interesting. Small businesses are kind of my philanthropy, I don't usually charge at all if I like the product, or very little if I just think the business will do well eventually (aka a good idea.) I generally barter with small business rather than take cash, but ya know its totally subjective so there's not a "set" price or anything - like I own a third of a local RV shop up here cause they needed help, I own stocks in a number of smaller businesses instead of having been paid, etc. Still, I can't say that I've run into that in front of customers before, I mean I've seen it in meetings or when no one else is around, though to be honest it's usually like husband and wife or kid and parent having a family disagreement. I suppose perhaps if the employee was there long enough to "feel like part of the family" maybe? I'm usually not in those places more than a year or so. Either way it's absolutely not the experience I've had with small businesses.

Worst I've ever been treated was Corp, female exec dislike stuff, but that kind of idk faded a while ago - though I suppose it depends on what one finds offensive... I hear some shit, but I find it amusing (I'm a bit uhm crass I guess) so that stuff never bothered me too much. They liked to question my authority and shit, which I actually kind of enjoyed the challenge of so.. idk I suppose today's little snowflakes would be in court over some of the jokes I've heard heh I did run into a guy who was hitting on the underlings; he grabbed my knee when I was his assistant district manager for a local newspaper; said it had nothing to do with work, I told him to kiss off, and that was the end of it for me until the police called me up asking about him like idk 8-10 years ago - he ultimately ended up in jail for sexual harassment and sexual harassment of a minor as well.

 

[charwin95]

Odd. I find small businesses run by a "family" are the nicest bosses to work for, in fact, I pro-bono or hugely discount my service fees simply to help them out because of how they treat their employees. Maybe it's a local thing as I generally stay local with small businesses...

It's not a local thing, because my jobs have been all over. However I did not say that "all" family business treat their employees like crap.

You read in, more than what was there. I said most of the abuses are in family business.

Family business is more to the extreme either way. Large corporations, are more in the center of both sides. They don't treat their employees overly good, or overly bad in my experience. Largely because everyone was hired from the outside, and worked their way in.

Family business, can be very generous and nice to employees. But family business, can also be the most abusive of any business, because "I own this place, and you do as I say, or get out!".

And even the best of family business employers, tend to... not always... but tend to have that nepotism element.

I worked at one company, where I found out after working there for 6 months, that I was one of exactly 4 people in the entire facility, that was not either family, or a friend of the family. Wasn't a bad place to work, nor did they treat you terribly, but.... you either married up... or you didn't go up. Every person was a relative, a spouse, a close friend of a relative. Me, and two guys, and one girl, were the only people in the place not related or friends, and all four of us, were the lowest paid employees of the place, and it was made indirectly clear, that no promotions were coming our way. In fact, one of the guys, had a degree in electrical engineering, and I found he was paid the same as me.

1. You worked all over the places. Maybe you cannot hold on to your jobs?
2. How in the world you knew how much other employees make? Are everyone displaying their pay check?
3. From what I read you complained a lot. Maybe you are a below average worker?