Zone1 This is Why I don't Talk about Black on Black Crime

[HereWeGoAgain]

White racism.

So why dont blacks start a new grocery store?
I know,white racism.

 

[woodwork201]

I know how to use numbers son. If 85 percent of whites are killed by another white and 76 percent of the victimizations of whites are by another white peson, the greater threat to a white person is another white person.

Raw numbers tell us that 2 percent of the national population were criminal offenders. That means 98 percent were not. The arrest data shows that just over 3 percent of the population was arrested if you make each arrest on a separate person. That means 97 percent of the population were not arrested. So what this shows is that America is a low crime nation accross lines of race.

Per capita is really of little value because the racism in the justice system will crreate black convictions for things whites don't get convictesd for. Whites such as yourself don't consider this and your denial of systemic racism means you can't be taken seriously.

By your numbers, 42,541,000 black people are not criminals and 243,043,200 white people are not criminals.

Since we don't believe in normalization, these numbers clearly prove that white people are 5 times less likely to be criminals than are black people. Or we could normalize and find the difference to be much smaller than that,.

 

[IM2]

These are the crime categories whites led in getting arrested for in 2019. If crime is a reason black communities are food deserts, then white communities should be deserts too. But they aren't and it is because of white racis.

 

[IM2]

So why dont blacks start a new grocery store?
I know,white racism.

Why do whites ask so many questions about blacks here instead of looking at their own problems?

 

[Meathead]

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These are the crime categories whites led in getting arrested for in 2019. If crime is a reason black communities are food deserts, then white communities should be deserts too. But they aren't and it is because of white racis.

Exactly. Black crime is the biggest crime problem. it is way out of whack with every other demographic.

 

[IM2]

By your numbers, 42,541,000 black people are not criminals and 243,043,200 white people are not criminals.

Since we don't believe in normalization, these numbers clearly prove that white people are 5 times less likely to be criminals than are black people. Or we could normalize and find the difference to be much smaller than that,.

Yeah thats what the numbers say and the numbers don't show that whites are 5 times less likely to be criminals. It only shows that 5 times more whites live in America. 98 percent is not 5 times 95 percent.

 

[woodwork201]

A 30 year period of reduction during a time where you kept getting told about black on black crime is pretty impessive. Meanwhile we have seen NOTHING said about this:

Between 1980 to 2008, a majority (53.3 percent) of gang-related murders were committed by white people, with a majority of the homicide victims being white as well.

or this:

Dangerous, growing, yet unnoticed: the rise of America's white gangs

White gangs are less covered by the media and less punished – even though 53% of gang members in Mississippi are white

www.theguardian.com

The unnoticed rise of America's white gangs - Attention to the Unseen

Donna Ladd reports: Surveys of young Americans have shown that 40% identifying as gang members are white, but police tend to undercount them at 10% to 14% and overcount black and Hispanic members, says Babe Howell, a criminal law professor at City University of New York who focuses on crime and...

attentiontotheunseen.com

​

White nationalist groups are really street gangs, and law enforcement needs to treat them that way

Law enforcement’s historical tendency to treat crimes committed by white power groups as isolated incidents has allowed them to flourish.

theconversation.com

77 Ghostface Gangsters indicted, viewed as fastest growing white gang in U.S.

Gangs of White Thugs Are Terrorizing America - Medium​

I didn't read all your links because I don't have time to prove them all wrong - I've proven the lie in every link of yours that I have ever opened so we'll just assume the wrong in all of these that I didn't read.

The one that seemed most interesting to me, because you highlighted it, was the last one, about white gangs terrorizing America.

As I read that, I found that most of the claims were about planned atrocities. You know, like the kidnapping of the governor of Minnesota or others where there are more FBI agents in the gang than bad (stupid) guys.

The one story about a shooting was at a BLM riot where Antifa was tearing down a statue. The guy who shot was properly arrested and will likely, again properly, get the death penalty.

What's missing in all of those stories, with the exception of the one killing, are the innocent bystanders getting killed, like babies in their mother's arms, or in the back seats of daddy's car. Or of the wild-east shootouts in the malls and streets by those white gangs. And, then again, the one person shot wasn't exactly an innocent, were they? But that's no excuse for shooting them; I agree.

But I think most here will agree with you. When bad guys, white or black, plan to kill a cop, they need to be arrested and punished. When they kill a cop, they need the death penalty. You won't find anyone here saying we won't talk about those white crimes; almost universally, and shame on those who disagree, we stand against white crime.

So, you've established that there are bad white people... Now let's get back to those crimes where innocents are being killed. Still waiting on you to go first.

 

[flacaltenn]

We have over 100 years worth of data that shows the danger police have been to blacks. You want everybody to forget all that and pretend that only last year matters. This is where YOUR argument is disingenuous

ABSOLUTELY NOT disingenuous, but you IGNORING IT IS - SO lets repeat the diff between RAW numbers and normalized (what you call per capita) stats.

Per capita is not the facts.

You FLUNK the stat exam. Let's finish this. Here's where YOU LOSE your argument on police killing of Blacks IF YOU DO NOT USE "per capita" (normalization by cohort or race). TWO EQUALLY VALID FACTOIDS are presented here. ONE presents the raw numbers where TWICE AS MANY white people get killed by police as black. The "per capita" number shows the "THREAT RISK" to black people. Which you wanna use and why? Be careful because Black Lives Matter. And BOTH ARE TRUE FACTS.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/07/11/arent-more-white-people-than-black-people-killed-by-police-yes-but-no/

“If we have a shooting, we end up assuming that it had to be racial,” former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee (R) said Saturday during an interview with Fox News, in which he argued that national concerns about police killings of black men are overblown.

“When in fact, as we know … more white people have been shot by police officers this year than minorities,” he said.

Huckabee is not, factually, incorrect.

In 2015, The Washington Post launched a real-time database to track fatal police shootings, and the project continues this year. As of Sunday, 1,502 people have been shot and killed by on-duty police officers since Jan. 1, 2015. Of them, 732 were white, and 381 were black (and 382 were of another or unknown race).

But as data scientists and policing experts often note, comparing how many or how often white people are killed by police to how many or how often black people are killed by the police is statistically dubious unless you first adjust for population.

According to the most recent census data, there are nearly 160 million more white people in America than there are black people. White people make up roughly 62 percent of the U.S. population but only about 49 percent of those who are killed by police officers. African Americans, however, account for 24 percent of those fatally shot and killed by the police despite being just 13 percent of the U.S. population. As The Post noted in a new analysis published last week, that means black Americans are 2.5 times as likely as white Americans to be shot and killed by police officers.

U.S. police officers have shot and killed the exact same number of unarmed white people as they have unarmed black people: 50 each. But because the white population is approximately five times larger than the black population, that means unarmed black Americans were five times as likely as unarmed white Americans to be shot and killed by a police officer.

Police have shot and killed a young black man (ages 18 to 29) — such as Michael Brown in Ferguson, Mo. —175 times since January 2015; 24 of them were unarmed. Over that same period, police have shot and killed 172 young white men, 18 of whom were unarmed. Once again, while in raw numbers there were similar totals of white and black victims, blacks were killed at rates disproportionate to their percentage of the U.S. population. Of all of the unarmed people shot and killed by police in 2015, 40 percent of them were black men, even though black men make up just 6 percent of the nation’s population.

-----------------------------------------

So here's the "make-up" test. And read carefully the piece above and THINK before you answer. Because I'm not gonna be wasting time in your threads where you assert that "per capita is NOT the facts" and you can just hurl RAW numbers and expect folks to just roll over and accept them like the premise of THIS thread. In RACE discussions, what MATTERS IS the magnitude of the threat or DAMAGE to that race. NOT the absolute number of victims when you dont NORMALIZE numbers by "per capita".

Here's the question -- ABSOLUTELY need a discussion back from you based on THIS EXAMPLE or I cant participate further in your threads.


In the case of deaths by race -- committed by police -- WHICH NUMBERS accurately depict the LIKELIHOOD of you or I being shot by police?


Extra credit question --

In the case of deaths by police DO the qualifiers "unarmed" or "youth" MATTER? And how important is the statistical LANGUAGE to qualifying the EXACT question that each of those "subset" statistics raise?

You can never again honestly say that "per capita is not the facts". Nor can you toss out just the RAW numbers in a thread and PRETEND that;s the ENTIRE HONEST picture of a racial issue.

 

[flacaltenn]

Why is this post not deleted?

Same reason you have 2 or 3 posts in here today -- struck out, but not deleted. Dont do this in thread. It's in violation of the board rules.

 

[woodwork201]

According to the FBI blacks are 3 times more likely to commit a violent crime than whites. Violent crime is defined in this context as rape, murder, manslaughter, armed robbery or aggravated assault. If you notice, your incarceration rates per capita very closely tracks with FBI data on violent crime. Roughly 3 to 1 per capita.

IM2 doesn't care about black people killing black people. He only cares if white people talk about black people killing black people. The most racist white person on this board cares more about black babies getting killed than IM2 cares about black babies getting killed.

 

[woodwork201]

Yeah thats what the numbers say and the numbers don't show that whites are 5 times less likely to be criminals. It only shows that 5 times more whites live in America. 98 percent is not 5 times 95 percent.

I rest my case; suddenly you care that 5 times as many whites live in America and how that number effects the rates of crime and the likelihood of crime.

You can change your argument faster than Biden's wife can change his diaper.

 

[Meathead]

IM2 doesn't care about black people killing black people. He only cares if white people talk about black people killing black people. The most racist white person on this board cares more about black babies getting killed than IM2 cares about black babies getting killed.

Black life is very cheap. It is certainly expendable if some dilapidated cheap shot is to be made.

 

[woodwork201]

ABSOLUTELY NOT disingenuous, but you IGNORING IT IS - SO lets repeat the diff between RAW numbers and normalized (what you call per capita) stats.


You FLUNK the stat exam. Let's finish this. Here's where YOU LOSE your argument on police killing of Blacks IF YOU DO NOT USE "per capita" (normalization by cohort or race). TWO EQUALLY VALID FACTOIDS are presented here. ONE presents the raw numbers where TWICE AS MANY white people get killed by police as black. The "per capita" number shows the "THREAT RISK" to black people. Which you wanna use and why? Be careful because Black Lives Matter. And BOTH ARE TRUE FACTS.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/07/11/arent-more-white-people-than-black-people-killed-by-police-yes-but-no/

“If we have a shooting, we end up assuming that it had to be racial,” former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee (R) said Saturday during an interview with Fox News, in which he argued that national concerns about police killings of black men are overblown.

“When in fact, as we know … more white people have been shot by police officers this year than minorities,” he said.

Huckabee is not, factually, incorrect.

In 2015, The Washington Post launched a real-time database to track fatal police shootings, and the project continues this year. As of Sunday, 1,502 people have been shot and killed by on-duty police officers since Jan. 1, 2015. Of them, 732 were white, and 381 were black (and 382 were of another or unknown race).

But as data scientists and policing experts often note, comparing how many or how often white people are killed by police to how many or how often black people are killed by the police is statistically dubious unless you first adjust for population.

According to the most recent census data, there are nearly 160 million more white people in America than there are black people. White people make up roughly 62 percent of the U.S. population but only about 49 percent of those who are killed by police officers. African Americans, however, account for 24 percent of those fatally shot and killed by the police despite being just 13 percent of the U.S. population. As The Post noted in a new analysis published last week, that means black Americans are 2.5 times as likely as white Americans to be shot and killed by police officers.

U.S. police officers have shot and killed the exact same number of unarmed white people as they have unarmed black people: 50 each. But because the white population is approximately five times larger than the black population, that means unarmed black Americans were five times as likely as unarmed white Americans to be shot and killed by a police officer.

Police have shot and killed a young black man (ages 18 to 29) — such as Michael Brown in Ferguson, Mo. —175 times since January 2015; 24 of them were unarmed. Over that same period, police have shot and killed 172 young white men, 18 of whom were unarmed. Once again, while in raw numbers there were similar totals of white and black victims, blacks were killed at rates disproportionate to their percentage of the U.S. population. Of all of the unarmed people shot and killed by police in 2015, 40 percent of them were black men, even though black men make up just 6 percent of the nation’s population.

-----------------------------------------

So here's the "make-up" test. And read carefully the piece above and THINK before you answer. Because I'm not gonna be wasting time in your threads where you assert that "per capita is NOT the facts" and you can just hurl RAW numbers and expect folks to just roll over and accept them like the premise of THIS thread. In RACE discussions, what MATTERS IS the magnitude of the threat or DAMAGE to that race. NOT the absolute number of victims when you dont NORMALIZE numbers by "per capita".

Here's the question -- ABSOLUTELY need a discussion back from you based on THIS EXAMPLE or I cant participate further in your threads.


In the case of deaths by race -- committed by police -- WHICH NUMBERS accurately depict the LIKELIHOOD of you or I being shot by police?


Extra credit question --

In the case of deaths by police DO the qualifiers "unarmed" or "youth" MATTER? And how important is the statistical LANGUAGE to qualifying the EXACT question that each of those "subset" statistics raise?

You can never again honestly say that "per capita is not the facts". Nor can you toss out just the RAW numbers in a thread and PRETEND that;s the ENTIRE HONEST picture of a racial issue.

Although normalizing the numbers is critical and shows that blacks are killed by police at a higher rate than white, there is nothing that can be assumed about the underlying cause of the shootings based on those numbers.

When we do data science and data analytics, we actually spend a lot of time, and a lot of computing cost, in trying to identify otherwise unknown relationships in data. Huge amounts of resources have been put into developing programs to identify the unknown in data.

If the data analytics found some other, perhaps unexpected, relationship in the data, it gets investigated further. For instance, what if the analysis showed that more black people who died from gunfire were killed by Toyota owners than by those who owned any other car make? That would get further investigated and, almost certainly, discarded as a root cause. Correlation does not equal causation.

But what if we had several other crime stats we were looking at? Say we were looking at child abuse, spousal abuse, white gun deaths, Asian gun deaths, random assaults on the subway, etc., and they all showed the Toyota correlation? Well, then we might do investigation into the chemicals or other conditions in a Toyota and perhaps identify that there's some off-gassing from the plastics that causes violent tendencies... Wow. maybe car ownership was the cause.

But lacking those unexpected correlations, we stick with the ones that seem to tell us the most. When data scientists take these numbers and then work to find the underlying causes, studying data closely related to the numbers we're questioning, and branching out to numbers further and further away, then they can hope to find root causes.

If the data scientist is told that the relationships they are finding are racist so don't ever mention them again or they're fired, then there's no hope that data will ever help to solve the problem.

We do tend to jump to conclusions but, as you suggest, data science leads us to follow up and verify or disprove our assumptions. In fact, for a data scientist, the big rewards, recognition, and excitement, comes in disproving the assumptions.

Those numbers on black on black murders, however, prove the need to identify and address the root causes. As someone else pointed out in this thread, though, the refusal of those in the black communities and in Democratic DOJ, to recognize this means more black babies get killed every year. Until we accept the numbers for what they tell us and also accept what they don't tell us, we can never use the numbers to help point us toward solutions.

I am sorry for black babies that so many black men hate white people more than they love black babies.

 

[woodwork201]

Why do whites ask so many questions about blacks here instead of looking at their own problems?

Why do you keep arguing that dead babies, just because of their skin color, are not everyone's problem?

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Why do whites ask so many questions about blacks here instead of looking at their own problems?

Because we dont have a problem.
Show me a white community with food deserts.
You cant....
In my white bread community we have at least 7 grocery stores within a few miles of my house.
So how is it possible for your black communities to have zero?
Oh wait...it's because of racism amiright?!?!

 

[flacaltenn]

Do something about this and stop pretending that only blacks have gangs.

Dangerous, growing, yet unnoticed: the rise of America's white gangs

White gangs are less covered by the media and less punished – even though 53% of gang members in Mississippi are white

www.theguardian.com

Says right in that article what I've said in this thread.

But by the 1980s, the gang had weakened after its leadership got locked up or killed.

Strength shifted to prisons, and the brand spread to midwestern and southern states like Mississippi, where the Royals are now one of the largest and most violent gangs in the state.

AND

Woods explains that law enforcement typically splits gang activity into three groups: white supremacist prison gangs, outlaw biker clubs and criminal street gangs. He concluded that systemic racism often keeps white gangs categorized as prison and biker groups instead of street gangs – the category drawing the toughest charges and sentences.

STILL largely prison and "outlaw" biker gangs. LOTS of folks JOIN "outlaw biker gangs" but in terms of homicides/assaults/street crimes -- this is a distinction WITHOUT a major problem -- isn't it? And prison gangs occur on both sides causing havoc IN PRISONS. When out on the streets, those associations are mostly gone and the criminal either reform or they DONT. STREET GANGS are the ONLY segment that have a major effect on violent crime.

 

[JoeB131]

These are the crime categories whites led in getting arrested for in 2019. If crime is a reason black communities are food deserts, then white communities should be deserts too. But they aren't and it is because of white racis.

Two points.

First, the percentage of crimes committed by blacks is far beyond their 13% of the population.

Secondly, FBI stats only record reported crime. White people will rat out their criminal neighbors. Black people, not so much.

 

[ThomasSowellsFro]

Don't you live near Chicago? Or is that Paul? Anyway you should play in Pastor Brooks golf tournament on August 8th. It would be good for you to get some fresh air and support the great work he is doing to give those Chicago kids a different path in life.

You're in Chicago, why don't you go?

 

[ThomasSowellsFro]

Two points.

First, the percentage of crimes committed by blacks is far beyond their 13% of the population.

Secondly, FBI stats only record reported crime. White people will rat out their criminal neighbors. Black people, not so much.

And? What about it?

 

[ThomasSowellsFro]

You don't have to talk about it. Unless you're an actual criminal, you have no onus to do anything. Whites just use it to practice their racism and spread black collective guilt. They don't mind 13/50 so long as it is mostly against other blacks, but they do care if it happens to white bodies. You see Chicago whites whining nowadays about blacks coming into their ethnostates and carjacking them. I like it TBH! I pray for the day when a black criminal wouldn't target another black man like. But Don't create ethnostates and then you might be a smaller target, but then they had no problem with crime until it started happening to them. So fuc em. I saw a black underneath a car looking for a catalytic converter last month-I DIDNT call the pigs, and suddenly realized that "personal responsibility" is key. hehe


But They say racist things like 13/50, when actually I think those doing murders is only like .01% of all blacks. Big fuckin' deal. See how racism is? I'm supposed to have black guilt over .05% of the population, but they aren't supposed to care about the 100% of them that are racist? It's literally On TO Black Black.