This is how we end it! (solution)

[abi]

Please be specific, what are the main goals in th equation of Peace,
what is the situation the day AFTER the solution?

I don't want to go into more detail as peace and what it involves, would take a long time to write for you, it would be very philosophical, and you do much better with simple concepts.

Think 'freedom' and go from there.

 

[abi]

Man, that's a real cop out!

There is a WORLD of difference between freedom and peace!

You might be able to handle the more philosophical. Peace happens when we all realize that love is what God is.

 

[rylah]

Please be specific, what are the main goals in th equation of Peace,
what is the situation the day AFTER the solution?

I don't want to go into more detail as peace and what it involves, as it would take a long time to write for you, it would be very philosophical, and you do much better with simple concepts.

Think 'freedom' and go from there.

Freedom is a vague term.
I remember realizing in high-school "we're no more free than a potato" in many ways.

I was asking about Peace initially, because Your thread is about "solutions".
So my question stands:

Q. What happens the day after the solution, on both sides?

 

[abi]

Freedom is a vague term.
I remember realizing in high-school "we're no more free than a potato" in many ways.

I was asking about Peace, Your thread is about "solutions".
So my question stands:

Freedom is a step that comes before peace can occur. Read what I wrote just above to Humanity.

When that happens, your question has already been answered.

 

[rylah]

Freedom is a vague term.
I remember realizing in high-school "we're no more free than a potato" in many ways.

I was asking about Peace, Your thread is about "solutions".
So my question stands:

Freedom is a step that comes before peace can occur. Read what I wrote just above to Humanity.

When that happens, your question has already been answered.

Please quote specific points. What leads to "Peace" and what happens the day AFTER?
I see You have some practical arrangements in mind. Please elaborate.

 

[Humanity]

See, Humanity ? That only took ten minutes.

That did make me chuckle!

Humanity let me just say that Your attitude seems to be one of the most centered , close to neutrality.
Although I may disagree on much of what You say, I see in Your posts an attempt to comprehend the situation from 2 sides to reach Your own conclusion.

Q.Can You define "Peace", as You see it from both sides?
Q.What is the common "middle ground" in Your view?

Well, I will take that as a great compliment. Thank you!

Peace, from both sides, has to be about accepting each other, about one side NOT constantly firing rockets into Israel, about Israel trying to be a little more 'understanding', for Palestinians to find a 'governing body' who is prepared to a) Work for the Palestinians as a whole b) drop the 'annihilate' Israel mantra c) cease all violent acts against Israel.

Israel also needs to 'wind its neck' in a little too by the way! Accept that there are others, not just Palestinians, who put great emphasis on the holy lands, including Jerusalem. Stop the 'historical' mantra that is just boring as hell and, sorry, really not THAT relevant IMHO. Why you may ask do I feel it not THAT relevant... Simply that the whole region has been conquered, reconquered, for millennia. How can it be claimed as ONE persons 'property'!

"Common middle ground"? Well, at the moment there is none, otherwise there would quite possibly be peace. That is pretty much the issue as I see it... And remember, these are just my views, and, as you have already said, you "disagree on much of what I say"... Hamas wants rid of Israel, Israel wants a 'Greater Israel'... Voila, no "common middle ground".

 

[Shusha]

if the foundation narrative is, "the Temple Mount is holy to Jews and we must honor that", it will probably work out okay.

And if the foundation is based on a false premise, then why not abandon it for the sake of Peace?

Its not based on a false premise, abi. The Temple Mount IS holy to Jews.

 

[Humanity]

Man, that's a real cop out!

There is a WORLD of difference between freedom and peace!

You might be able to handle the more philosophical. Peace happens when we all realize that love is what God is.

Are we talking about... Peace... Freedom... Love or god?

You will forgive my 'ignorance' of most godly things but isn't freedom that one thing that believers use to 'forgive' god for creating such a shit hole of a world? It's not gods fault that children die horrible diseases, it's not gods fault that there are wars and natural catastrophes, god gave us freedom to choose!

 

[Shusha]

Israel or no Israel?

Defined as a homeland for the Jewish people in the land known as Palestine since at least 450BC?

Defined as a State in which the Jewish people have independence, sovereignty and self-determination, having reconstituted their 3000 year old nation.

Don't play games with the definitions -- the point is acceptance of the Jewish narrative.

 

[abi]

Its not based on a false premise, abi. The Temple Mount IS holy to Jews.

Maybe, because of a false premise makes more sense, but I wanted to answer your question. Did I post your working definition of what you mean by Israel?

 

[Shusha]

Can anyone define "P-e-a-c-e"?

People, really I'm not cynical here.
It can help us together, because we're a small group, discussing separate issues with each other for years and ...without having a clear definition of mutual GOALS.

We at least have to clearly understand how each of us sees th situation AFTER the solution, from all sides - to know what is the average, middle ground.

This is an excellent point. I believe a peaceful end goal would be Jewish self-rule in the State of Israel and Arab Palestinian self-rule, which may or may not mean the creation of new states.

"new stateS"

Emirates come to mind...what did You mean?

Anything that works. Palestine. Expanded borders for Egypt and/or Jordan. Emirates. Shrug. Its kinda up to them.

 

[abi]

Are we talking about... Peace... Freedom... Love or god?

You will forgive my 'ignorance' of most godly things but isn't freedom that one thing that believers use to 'forgive' god for creating such a shit hole of a world? It's not gods fault that children die horrible diseases, it's not gods fault that there are wars and natural catastrophes, god gave us freedom to choose!

God, as I used it simply is what it is. I don't see this as a cosmic accident any more than I believe that any of those things have anything to do with God.

 

[Hollie]

Man, that's a real cop out!

There is a WORLD of difference between freedom and peace!

You might be able to handle the more philosophical. Peace happens when we all realize that love is what God is.

Well actually, Louie, here's a bit of God's love as per your co-religionists.


Hamas Charter

THE CHARTER OF THE HAMAS

THE CHARTER OF ALLAH:

THE PLATFORM OF THE ISLAMIC RESISTANCE MOVEMENT (HAMAS)

In the Name of Allah, the Merciful, the Compassionate

You are the best community that has been raised up for mankind.

Israel will rise and will remain erect until Islam eliminates it as it had eliminated its predecessors.

The Islamic World is burning. It is incumbent upon each one of us to pour some water, little as it may be, with a view of extinguishing as much of the fire as he can, without awaiting action by the others.



A little bit of God's love per islamic terrorists.

 

[rylah]

See, Humanity ? That only took ten minutes.

That did make me chuckle!

Humanity let me just say that Your attitude seems to be one of the most centered , close to neutrality.
Although I may disagree on much of what You say, I see in Your posts an attempt to comprehend the situation from 2 sides to reach Your own conclusion.

Q.Can You define "Peace", as You see it from both sides?
Q.What is the common "middle ground" in Your view?

Well, I will take that as a great compliment. Thank you!

Peace, from both sides, has to be about accepting each other, about one side NOT constantly firing rockets into Israel, about Israel trying to be a little more 'understanding', for Palestinians to find a 'governing body' who is prepared to a) Work for the Palestinians as a whole b) drop the 'annihilate' Israel mantra c) cease all violent acts against Israel.

Israel also needs to 'wind its neck' in a little too by the way! Accept that there are others, not just Palestinians, who put great emphasis on the holy lands, including Jerusalem. Stop the 'historical' mantra that is just boring as hell and, sorry, really not THAT relevant IMHO. Why you may ask do I feel it not THAT relevant... Simply that the whole region has been conquered, reconquered, for millennia. How can it be claimed as ONE persons 'property'!

"Common middle ground"? Well, at the moment there is none, otherwise there would quite possibly be peace. That is pretty much the issue as I see it... And remember, these are just my views, and, as you have already said, you "disagree on much of what I say"... Hamas wants rid of Israel, Israel wants a 'Greater Israel'... Voila, no "common middle ground".

I'm an Israeli, from here it doesn't seem You have a bet in any side.
I think You can help us all, at least in this forum to understand better what is the dynamic between the opposing claims.

Thanks for the sincerity,
let me think about Your answer.

 

[Humanity]

if the foundation narrative is, "the Temple Mount is holy to Jews and we must honor that", it will probably work out okay.

And if the foundation is based on a false premise, then why not abandon it for the sake of Peace?

Its not based on a false premise, abi. The Temple Mount IS holy to Jews.

As it is to Christians and Muslims... As it will always be...

Yes of course, we can all argue about history or take the "I was here first" kind of mentality, but, for me, it is difficult for me to accept that a 'holy place', considered holy by millions of people from different faiths be classified as being single faith.

 

[abi]

Defined as a State in which the Jewish people have independence, sovereignty and self-determination, having reconstituted their 3000 year old nation.

Don't play games with the definitions -- the point is acceptance of the Jewish narrative.

HA! Don't play games with the definitions? From you? Listen, Shusha, Jews already have the same rights as everyone else.

I thought you were talking about Israel, as a homeland for the Jewish people, as you do day in and day out.

 

[Shusha]

if the foundation narrative is, "the Temple Mount is holy to Jews and we must honor that", it will probably work out okay.

And if the foundation is based on a false premise, then why not abandon it for the sake of Peace?

Its not based on a false premise, abi. The Temple Mount IS holy to Jews.

As it is to Christians and Muslims... As it will always be...

Yes of course, we can all argue about history or take the "I was here first" kind of mentality, but, for me, it is difficult for me to accept that a 'holy place', considered holy by millions of people from different faiths be classified as being single faith.

But again, that is not what I am saying. Accepting that it is holy to Jews is NOT the same thing as saying it is ONLY holy to Jews.

You do notice that Muslims are permitted to pray there. Christians and Jews are not. That must change. We agree?

 

[abi]

Christians and Jews are not. That must change. We agree?

No, that's a lie.

 

[Shusha]

Defined as a State in which the Jewish people have independence, sovereignty and self-determination, having reconstituted their 3000 year old nation.

Don't play games with the definitions -- the point is acceptance of the Jewish narrative.

HA! Don't play games with the definitions? From you? Listen, Shusha, Jews already have the same rights as everyone else.

I thought you were talking about Israel, as a homeland for the Jewish people, as you do day in and day out.

Israel, yes or no?

 

[abi]

Defined as a State in which the Jewish people have independence, sovereignty and self-determination, having reconstituted their 3000 year old nation.

Don't play games with the definitions -- the point is acceptance of the Jewish narrative.

HA! Don't play games with the definitions? From you? Listen, Shusha, Jews already have the same rights as everyone else.

I thought you were talking about Israel, as a homeland for the Jewish people, as you do day in and day out.

Israel, yes or no?

Defined as a homeland for the Jewish people in the land known as Palestine since at least 450BC?