There is NO RISK in privatizing SS and investing in stock market!!!

[bripat9643]

How do you propose to pay for those who have already earned social security benefits or have paid in for decades.

Crank up the printing presses! Why not...that's what's going on now.

Just end all entitlements, send every household in America $1M tax free and tell everyone "sink or swim boys and girls, no more handouts" oh and lower taxes since we no longer have the huge entitlement programs to pay for.

You flunked math in HS didn't you ?

Flunked math? How so? Over a timespan of say 20 years it would be cheaper to end all entitlement programs and give each household $1M tax free. Do you dispute that? Seriously?

1 million to every American family comes up to a 100 trillion dollars. How do you come up with the money.

The current unfunded liabilities of the federal government come to more than $100 trillion, so that would actually be a reduction in cost.

 

[rightwinger]

How do you propose to pay for those who have already earned social security benefits or have paid in for decades.

Crank up the printing presses! Why not...that's what's going on now.

No, it is not what is going on now

social security is solvent and has been for 75 years. Tell us how you propose to change it without sending millions of retired Americans into poverty.

If it has always been "solvent," then why did Congress increase FICA taxes and decrease SS benefits and also made them taxable when previously they weren't?

All part of remaining solvent. They need to take the big step towards solvency and raise the retirement age to 72 and make all wages taxable

 

[rightwinger]

How do you propose to pay for those who have already earned social security benefits or have paid in for decades.

Crank up the printing presses! Why not...that's what's going on now.

Just end all entitlements, send every household in America $1M tax free and tell everyone "sink or swim boys and girls, no more handouts" oh and lower taxes since we no longer have the huge entitlement programs to pay for.

You flunked math in HS didn't you ?

Flunked math? How so? Over a timespan of say 20 years it would be cheaper to end all entitlement programs and give each household $1M tax free. Do you dispute that? Seriously?

1 million to every American family comes up to a 100 trillion dollars. How do you come up with the money.

The current unfunded liabilities of the federal government come to more than $100 trillion, so that would actually be a reduction in cost.

100 trillion that needs to be paid 50 years from now vs paying right now. How do you propose paying 100 trillion right now?

 

[Dad2three]

Keynes wrote "The End of Laissez Faire" in 1926. He was correct then, and his insight remains more valid than any economics that conservative Libertarians propound ad infinitum and ad nauseum. Laissez Faire is nothing more than a childish Christmas wish of no substance; just hope and myth, and smoke and mirrors. Fails every time we try even the tiniest bit.

Chile Confronts Problems Caused by Social Security Privatization


Remember when Chile's private account system was hailed as a model for Social Security reform? As this article notes, the Chilean system was endorsed by President Bush, who has called it "a great example" from which the United States can "take some lessons." So what are the lessons?:



...
"Chile's social security system requires deep reforms in all sectors, because half of Chileans have no pension coverage, and of those who do, 40 percent are going to find it hard to reach the minimum level,"


Economist s View Chile Confronts Problems Caused by Social Security Privatization



Chile's Retirees Find Shortfall in Private Plan

The Chilean example also makes clear that introducing private accounts does not solve a lot of the problems faced in the United States, Europe and Japan, where pay-as-you-go systems remain the principal means of government retirement support.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/27/business/worldbusiness/27pension.html?_r=0

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

How do you propose to pay for those who have already earned social security benefits or have paid in for decades.

Crank up the printing presses! Why not...that's what's going on now.

Just end all entitlements, send every household in America $1M tax free and tell everyone "sink or swim boys and girls, no more handouts" oh and lower taxes since we no longer have the huge entitlement programs to pay for.

You flunked math in HS didn't you ?

Flunked math? How so? Over a timespan of say 20 years it would be cheaper to end all entitlement programs and give each household $1M tax free. Do you dispute that? Seriously?

1 million to every American family comes up to a 100 trillion dollars. How do you come up with the money.

First of all I said house holds, not families.

Second of all, there about 6.5M households in the US

http://www.zerohhttp://www.usmessag...eholds-has-over-million-assets-where-they-are

So , in point of fact it would cost $6.5T to give each household in the US $1M, not $100T as you claimed.

Major entitlements last year made up 45% of our budget

Federal Spending by the Numbers 2013

or roughly $1.5T per year. So, unless I've severely fucked up the math ( a distinct possibility) ending entitlements sand sending each household $1M would pay for itself in 4 years and after that , well you're on your own.

 

[Dad2three]

The current unfunded liabilities of the federal government come to more than $100 trillion, so that would actually be a reduction in cost.

Over how many decades? 7? lol


CONSERVATIVES (libertarians are FARRRR right on economics, yes, conservatives): ALWAYS ON THE WRONG SIDE OF HISTORY

 

[Dad2three]

How do you propose to pay for those who have already earned social security benefits or have paid in for decades.

Crank up the printing presses! Why not...that's what's going on now.

Just end all entitlements, send every household in America $1M tax free and tell everyone "sink or swim boys and girls, no more handouts" oh and lower taxes since we no longer have the huge entitlement programs to pay for.

You flunked math in HS didn't you ?

Flunked math? How so? Over a timespan of say 20 years it would be cheaper to end all entitlement programs and give each household $1M tax free. Do you dispute that? Seriously?

1 million to every American family comes up to a 100 trillion dollars. How do you come up with the money.

First of all I said house holds, not families.

Second of all, there about 6.5M households in the US

http://www.zerohhttp://www.usmessag...eholds-has-over-million-assets-where-they-are

So , in point of fact it would cost $6.5T to give each household in the US $1M, not $100T as you claimed.

Major entitlements last year made up 45% of our budget

Federal Spending by the Numbers 2013

or roughly $1.5T per year. So, unless I've severely fucked up the math ( a distinct possibility) ending entitlements sand sending each household $1M would pay for itself in 4 years and after that , well you're on your own.

6.5 million households ion the US? Oh you meant 115,226,802

USA QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau


No your math is the USUAL conservative 'math', it doesn't add up

 

[boedicca]

How do you propose to pay for those who have already earned social security benefits or have paid in for decades.

Crank up the printing presses! Why not...that's what's going on now.

No, it is not what is going on now

social security is solvent and has been for 75 years. Tell us how you propose to change it without sending millions of retired Americans into poverty.

If it has always been "solvent," then why did Congress increase FICA taxes and decrease SS benefits and also made them taxable when previously they weren't?

All part of remaining solvent. They need to take the big step towards solvency and raise the retirement age to 72 and make all wages taxable

And require workers to smoke three packs a day so that the majority will die before they are old enough to retire and collect benefits.

See. Easy Peasy.

 

[Dad2three]

Of course, you haven't offered a shred of proof to support your post.

How beautifully liberal!

It has been shown countless times that Democrats caused the sub-prime mortgage debacle. If you didn't soak your head in leftwing Kool-Aid, you might know the facts.

"It has been shown countless times that Democrats caused the sub-prime mortgage debacle. If you didn't soak your head in leftwing Kool-Aid, you might know the facts."

LIAR


Right-wingers Want To Erase How George Bush's "Homeowner Society" Helped Cause The Economic Collapse


2004 Republican Convention:

Another priority for a new term is to build an ownership society, because ownership brings security and dignity and independence.
...

Thanks to our policies, home ownership in America is at an all- time high.

(APPLAUSE)

Tonight we set a new goal: 7 million more affordable homes in the next 10 years, so more American families will be able to open the door and say, "Welcome to my home."


Right-wingers Want To Erase How George Bush's "Homeowner Society" Helped Cause The Economic Collapse


2004 Republican Convention:

Another priority for a new term is to build an ownership society, because ownership brings security and dignity and independence.
...

Thanks to our policies, home ownership in America is at an all- time high.

(APPLAUSE)

Tonight we set a new goal: 7 million more affordable homes in the next 10 years, so more American families will be able to open the door and say, "Welcome to my home."


Q WHO THE HELL LOANS HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS TO PEOPLE WITHOUT CHECKING THEIR INCOMES?!?!?

A Banks.

Q WHY??!?!!!?!

A Two reasons, greed and Bush's regulators let them

FACTS on Dubya s great recession US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

 

[Dad2three]

How do you propose to pay for those who have already earned social security benefits or have paid in for decades.

Just set a cut off date, and borrow enough to pay everyone off. Sure it would sting the deficit in the short term, but in the long term it ends the ponzi scheme

Since when is insurance a ponzi scheme? Germany has basically the same system for almost 150 years!

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

How do you propose to pay for those who have already earned social security benefits or have paid in for decades.

Crank up the printing presses! Why not...that's what's going on now.

Just end all entitlements, send every household in America $1M tax free and tell everyone "sink or swim boys and girls, no more handouts" oh and lower taxes since we no longer have the huge entitlement programs to pay for.

You flunked math in HS didn't you ?

Flunked math? How so? Over a timespan of say 20 years it would be cheaper to end all entitlement programs and give each household $1M tax free. Do you dispute that? Seriously?

1 million to every American family comes up to a 100 trillion dollars. How do you come up with the money.

First of all I said house holds, not families.

Second of all, there about 6.5M households in the US

http://www.zerohhttp://www.usmessag...eholds-has-over-million-assets-where-they-are

So , in point of fact it would cost $6.5T to give each household in the US $1M, not $100T as you claimed.

Major entitlements last year made up 45% of our budget

Federal Spending by the Numbers 2013

or roughly $1.5T per year. So, unless I've severely fucked up the math ( a distinct possibility) ending entitlements sand sending each household $1M would pay for itself in 4 years and after that , well you're on your own.

6.5 million households ion the US? Oh you meant 115,226,802

USA QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau


No your math is the USUAL conservative 'math', it doesn't add up

LOL that is the household total from 2008-2012 LOL

Also, many of those are non citizens, and certainly they wouldn't be eligible to receive any money.

Oh, and giving $1M to each house hold certainly isn't conservative LOL

 

[Dad2three]

How do you propose to pay for those who have already earned social security benefits or have paid in for decades.

Crank up the printing presses! Why not...that's what's going on now.

Just end all entitlements, send every household in America $1M tax free and tell everyone "sink or swim boys and girls, no more handouts" oh and lower taxes since we no longer have the huge entitlement programs to pay for.

You flunked math in HS didn't you ?

Flunked math? How so? Over a timespan of say 20 years it would be cheaper to end all entitlement programs and give each household $1M tax free. Do you dispute that? Seriously?

1 million to every American family comes up to a 100 trillion dollars. How do you come up with the money.

First of all I said house holds, not families.

Second of all, there about 6.5M households in the US

http://www.zerohhttp://www.usmessag...eholds-has-over-million-assets-where-they-are

So , in point of fact it would cost $6.5T to give each household in the US $1M, not $100T as you claimed.

Major entitlements last year made up 45% of our budget

Federal Spending by the Numbers 2013

or roughly $1.5T per year. So, unless I've severely fucked up the math ( a distinct possibility) ending entitlements sand sending each household $1M would pay for itself in 4 years and after that , well you're on your own.

6.5 million households ion the US? Oh you meant 115,226,802

USA QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau


No your math is the USUAL conservative 'math', it doesn't add up

LOL that is the household total from 2008-2012 LOL

Also, many of those are non citizens, and certainly they wouldn't be eligible to receive any money.

Oh, and giving $1M to each house hold certainly isn't conservative LOL

So the difference of 6.5 million households and 115,000,000 is what? THAT'S A ONE YEAR TOTAL. Number of US households dummy. Grow a brain

135,000,000 Tax returns filed in 2011

Summary of Latest Federal Income Tax Data Tax Foundation


Right wingers are HORRIBLE at math and history!

 

[rightwinger]

How do you propose to pay for those who have already earned social security benefits or have paid in for decades.

Crank up the printing presses! Why not...that's what's going on now.

Just end all entitlements, send every household in America $1M tax free and tell everyone "sink or swim boys and girls, no more handouts" oh and lower taxes since we no longer have the huge entitlement programs to pay for.

You flunked math in HS didn't you ?

Flunked math? How so? Over a timespan of say 20 years it would be cheaper to end all entitlement programs and give each household $1M tax free. Do you dispute that? Seriously?

1 million to every American family comes up to a 100 trillion dollars. How do you come up with the money.

First of all I said house holds, not families.

Second of all, there about 6.5M households in the US

http://www.zerohhttp://www.usmessag...eholds-has-over-million-assets-where-they-are

So , in point of fact it would cost $6.5T to give each household in the US $1M, not $100T as you claimed.

Major entitlements last year made up 45% of our budget

Federal Spending by the Numbers 2013

or roughly $1.5T per year. So, unless I've severely fucked up the math ( a distinct possibility) ending entitlements sand sending each household $1M would pay for itself in 4 years and after that , well you're on your own.

Again, your math skills leave me puzzled

6.5 million households in a nation of over 300 million ?

50 people per household ?

 

[boedicca]

How do you propose to pay for those who have already earned social security benefits or have paid in for decades.

Just set a cut off date, and borrow enough to pay everyone off. Sure it would sting the deficit in the short term, but in the long term it ends the ponzi scheme

Since when is insurance a ponzi scheme? Germany has basically the same system for almost 150 years!

SS isn't insurance. It's a transfer payment scheme from younger workers to older retired people.

Insurance requires reserves to fund expected liabilities. The so-called SS lockbox is just stuffed with IOUs to be paid be future taxpayers.

 

[Dad2three]

Math doesn’t work on privatizing Social Security

Here’s the problem: To finance benefits at promised levels for those 55 or older, we would need to continue to collect payroll taxes from today’s working-age population. However, we would also propose to divert a significant share of those payroll tax into personal accounts. In effect, we would be trying to spend the same dollar twice, and we would do it trillions of times.


...To offset that additional cost to workers, private employers in Chile were ordered by the military junta to increase wages across the board by 18 percent. The Chilean government also went deeply into debt to finance the transition to the new system while trying to honor commitments under the previous system.

In a study exploring the possibility of copying the Chilean example here in the United States, the Congressional Research Service outlined some of the major obstacles:

Absent other measures, keeping Social Security’ s commitments would require the government to raise taxes, cut spending on other programs, or borrow more from private financial markets. Put another way, a generation or two would have to pay twice, bearing both the cost of pre-funding the new system and the costs of benefits under the old system.

The United States already is faced with chronic budget deficit problems, leaving little or no room for the massive tax hikes or public borrowing that would be necessary (the Social Security Administration estimates if all workers currently under age 40 were to stop paying into Social Security, the system would need an infusion of $6.9 trillion in order to pay promised benefits to those remaining in the system).

That was written in 1998, at a time when — to put it mildly — our nation’s finances were in considerably better shape than they are today. That $6.9 trillion figure would also be considerably higher today, considering inflation and the fact that the Baby Boomers are now 13 years closer to retirement than they were in 1998.

All in all, a reasonable ballpark estimate of $10 trillion in additional resources would probably be needed to finance such a transition. So until you identify a source for that kind of money, talk of personal or private accounts is mere wishful thinking.

Math doesn 8217 t work on privatizing Social Security Jay Bookman

 

[bripat9643]

Of course, you haven't offered a shred of proof to support your post.

How beautifully liberal!

It has been shown countless times that Democrats caused the sub-prime mortgage debacle. If you didn't soak your head in leftwing Kool-Aid, you might know the facts.

"It has been shown countless times that Democrats caused the sub-prime mortgage debacle. If you didn't soak your head in leftwing Kool-Aid, you might know the facts."

LIAR


Right-wingers Want To Erase How George Bush's "Homeowner Society" Helped Cause The Economic Collapse


2004 Republican Convention:

Another priority for a new term is to build an ownership society, because ownership brings security and dignity and independence.
...

Thanks to our policies, home ownership in America is at an all- time high.

(APPLAUSE)

Tonight we set a new goal: 7 million more affordable homes in the next 10 years, so more American families will be able to open the door and say, "Welcome to my home."


Right-wingers Want To Erase How George Bush's "Homeowner Society" Helped Cause The Economic Collapse


2004 Republican Convention:

Another priority for a new term is to build an ownership society, because ownership brings security and dignity and independence.
...

Thanks to our policies, home ownership in America is at an all- time high.

(APPLAUSE)

Tonight we set a new goal: 7 million more affordable homes in the next 10 years, so more American families will be able to open the door and say, "Welcome to my home."


Q WHO THE HELL LOANS HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS TO PEOPLE WITHOUT CHECKING THEIR INCOMES?!?!?

A Banks.

Q WHY??!?!!!?!

A Two reasons, greed and Bush's regulators let them

FACTS on Dubya s great recession US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

How did George Bush's "home owner's society" cause the recession? Did he force banks to give loans to people who had poor credit histories?

 

[Dad2three]

How do you propose to pay for those who have already earned social security benefits or have paid in for decades.

Just set a cut off date, and borrow enough to pay everyone off. Sure it would sting the deficit in the short term, but in the long term it ends the ponzi scheme

Since when is insurance a ponzi scheme? Germany has basically the same system for almost 150 years!

SS isn't insurance. It's a transfer payment scheme from younger workers to older retired people.

Insurance requires reserves to fund expected liabilities. The so-called SS lockbox is just stuffed with IOUs to be paid be future taxpayers.

So the US Gov't bonds aren't the highest rated on Earth? Thanks for the info *shaking head*

 

[Andylusion]

No more than calling social security a safety net (unless, of course, you do enjoy cat food).

There are millions of senior citizens who lead dignified lives with nothing more than a social security check and medicare. I'm sure most of them aren't leading an extravagant lifestyle but I think it pretty well suits the definition of safety net.

According to social security my wife and I would have a total monthly benefit of almost $5,000 between the two of us if we retire at 67, which is more than our current monthly expenses. I'm not planning on that since working until 67 sounds horrible but it sure isn't cat food.

Before Social Security, senior citizens did the same thing. Except they did so with their own earnings, and their own retirement, or with the help of their own families.

There actually was no demand for Social Security. The demand for Social Security had to be created, by government making promises, and selling it to the public.

Now, people tend to not worry about retirement because they'll get Social Security. I have personally talked to people, who said "why should I put money away that I could use, when I'll just get Social Security?".

And it's wonderful that you are going to get $5K a month. What about everyone else?

You do know the average Social Security check is $1,200 a month?
Social Security Administration Social Security Basic Facts

SSA openly publishes this. "Average" is the scary key word. Half of retirees get less than that.

Most of the people living on Social Security are completely impoverished.... BECAUSE they live on Social Security. I ran Meals on Wheels, years back. I met these people all the time. They live in tiny dingy places, either studio, or single room apartments, with a recliner next to a TV set, and single bed. They barely survive on Social Security, when they could nearly double their income just working at Wendy's.

Further, there is no aspect of Social Security that is defensible.

The tax system is a clearly regressive tax, which punishes the poor more than any other group. It not only punishes the poor, but also discourages employment, and lowers wages. It's the biggest tax on the poorest people, that has ever existed in a modern country, as far as I can tell.

At the same time, it penalizes people at the poor end, while providing full benefits to those at the top. A person at age, working a full job, will end up losing their Social Security benefits, while the person whose house they are renting, could have a million dollars worth of property, and because they are not working at all, receives full benefits. Worse still, the poor elderly working the full time job, is now paying taxes into the very system whose benefits they are not getting.

And to add insult to injury, the ROI on Social Security is terrible.
What s your rate of return on Social Security Reuters

Those who live to 70 or less, are likely to have an ROI of zero. They lost money. And of course, all the money you put in, is gone. You can't pass it on to the next generation.

Even those that do make an ROI, the numbers are terrible. Between 2.5% to 4.5% for most people. That doesn't even keep pace with inflation for the most part.

My mutual funds have a 12% ROI average, over their history. My last statement showed a 23% increase over the past 12 months.

And unlike Social Security, if there is an Emergency of some vital magnitude, I can sell my stocks and get the money. With Social Security, the money is gone. When I die, I can pass on my investments to family or the next generation. Social Security, the money is gone.

So I don't know what dignity you think those living utterly impoverished on Social Security have.

 

[Dad2three]

Of course, you haven't offered a shred of proof to support your post.

How beautifully liberal!

It has been shown countless times that Democrats caused the sub-prime mortgage debacle. If you didn't soak your head in leftwing Kool-Aid, you might know the facts.

"It has been shown countless times that Democrats caused the sub-prime mortgage debacle. If you didn't soak your head in leftwing Kool-Aid, you might know the facts."

LIAR


Right-wingers Want To Erase How George Bush's "Homeowner Society" Helped Cause The Economic Collapse


2004 Republican Convention:

Another priority for a new term is to build an ownership society, because ownership brings security and dignity and independence.
...

Thanks to our policies, home ownership in America is at an all- time high.

(APPLAUSE)

Tonight we set a new goal: 7 million more affordable homes in the next 10 years, so more American families will be able to open the door and say, "Welcome to my home."


Right-wingers Want To Erase How George Bush's "Homeowner Society" Helped Cause The Economic Collapse


2004 Republican Convention:

Another priority for a new term is to build an ownership society, because ownership brings security and dignity and independence.
...

Thanks to our policies, home ownership in America is at an all- time high.

(APPLAUSE)

Tonight we set a new goal: 7 million more affordable homes in the next 10 years, so more American families will be able to open the door and say, "Welcome to my home."


Q WHO THE HELL LOANS HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS TO PEOPLE WITHOUT CHECKING THEIR INCOMES?!?!?

A Banks.

Q WHY??!?!!!?!

A Two reasons, greed and Bush's regulators let them

FACTS on Dubya s great recession US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

How did George Bush's "home owner's society" cause the recession? Did he force banks to give loans to people who had poor credit histories?

He FORCED F/F to buy $440 BILLION in MBS's to meet his 'goals', he ignored FBI warnings and GUTTED the FBI white collar crime divisions by 1,800+ agents, fought ALL 50 states on predatory lenders, took away Clinton's rule on subprimes and pushed the goal from 50% to 56% AND SO MUCH MORE

ALL DOCUMENTED HERE

FACTS on Dubya s great recession US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

 

[Dad2three]

No more than calling social security a safety net (unless, of course, you do enjoy cat food).

There are millions of senior citizens who lead dignified lives with nothing more than a social security check and medicare. I'm sure most of them aren't leading an extravagant lifestyle but I think it pretty well suits the definition of safety net.

According to social security my wife and I would have a total monthly benefit of almost $5,000 between the two of us if we retire at 67, which is more than our current monthly expenses. I'm not planning on that since working until 67 sounds horrible but it sure isn't cat food.

Before Social Security, senior citizens did the same thing. Except they did so with their own earnings, and their own retirement, or with the help of their own families.

There actually was no demand for Social Security. The demand for Social Security had to be created, by government making promises, and selling it to the public.

Now, people tend to not worry about retirement because they'll get Social Security. I have personally talked to people, who said "why should I put money away that I could use, when I'll just get Social Security?".

And it's wonderful that you are going to get $5K a month. What about everyone else?

You do know the average Social Security check is $1,200 a month?
Social Security Administration Social Security Basic Facts

SSA openly publishes this. "Average" is the scary key word. Half of retirees get less than that.

Most of the people living on Social Security are completely impoverished.... BECAUSE they live on Social Security. I ran Meals on Wheels, years back. I met these people all the time. They live in tiny dingy places, either studio, or single room apartments, with a recliner next to a TV set, and single bed. They barely survive on Social Security, when they could nearly double their income just working at Wendy's.

Further, there is no aspect of Social Security that is defensible.

The tax system is a clearly regressive tax, which punishes the poor more than any other group. It not only punishes the poor, but also discourages employment, and lowers wages. It's the biggest tax on the poorest people, that has ever existed in a modern country, as far as I can tell.

At the same time, it penalizes people at the poor end, while providing full benefits to those at the top. A person at age, working a full job, will end up losing their Social Security benefits, while the person whose house they are renting, could have a million dollars worth of property, and because they are not working at all, receives full benefits. Worse still, the poor elderly working the full time job, is now paying taxes into the very system whose benefits they are not getting.

And to add insult to injury, the ROI on Social Security is terrible.
What s your rate of return on Social Security Reuters

Those who live to 70 or less, are likely to have an ROI of zero. They lost money. And of course, all the money you put in, is gone. You can't pass it on to the next generation.

Even those that do make an ROI, the numbers are terrible. Between 2.5% to 4.5% for most people. That doesn't even keep pace with inflation for the most part.

My mutual funds have a 12% ROI average, over their history. My last statement showed a 23% increase over the past 12 months.

And unlike Social Security, if there is an Emergency of some vital magnitude, I can sell my stocks and get the money. With Social Security, the money is gone. When I die, I can pass on my investments to family or the next generation. Social Security, the money is gone.

So I don't know what dignity you think those living utterly impoverished on Social Security have.

LOL, NO DEMAND FOR SS? SERIOUSLY? READ A GAWWWDAM HISTORY BOOK!

Remember that GOP thing called the great depression?