There is no Morality

[Intense]

Careful--it could mean common beliefs shared by individuals in that society, not trans-societal beliefs that are shared.

Like was said earlier--SOME religions used to require human sacrifices.

SOME religions used to keep temple prostitutes.

SOME religions stoned people for what was considered major infractions by its members.

But not all religions did the same thing. Nor is there one religion that established all the cultures and societies that exist today.

I just realized that this is almost proof that all religions are man made.

"No one religion established all societies or culture. "​

Of course, all religions are man made. Religion is man's way of reaching out to, or trying to find God. That is why so many Christians have come to realize that it is their relationship with God that is real. The relationship is established through His Word.

His Word is Recognized and digested, Through Conscience. If You are coming from a Christian Foundation, Consider "John 15:26" and the effect.

 

[Smartt33]

It has been a while since I visited this topic. Of course, I am sure everyone knew that there would be so many ideas and phylosophies expressed that a conclusion would not ever be formulated.

The very fact that there is a question is pretty significant, IMO. Why do we even ask?

If morality is "the working out of..." anything by societies, and if where the world is today is any indication, then we have not yet found out what is moral.

If what is right is moral, then what is wrong must be immoral, right? However, if there is no morality, as some suggest, then there is no right or wrong. I believe that is where society is headed these days, at least in the USA.

Pretty much we agree that religion is not the place to look for morality. Religion is indeed manmade, and is there because man is searching for God, and maybe even greater meaning in life.

I believe there is morality. I believe it is something that mankind knows from birth. I believe it is built into the creation of man, and man has definitely been touched by it's reality and meaning. I also believe there is indeed a moral standard. It is not something that man can put a finger on in an absolute way yet, and if we could, we could not live up to it. I believe moral standards have been established and defeated over and over in societies. I believe there is a definite friction between right and wrong, and morality and immorality. That is why mankind stays on edge.

Having solved nothing, I will leave this with you. It is good just to think about it, and even search for some truth in it all.

Personally, I believe God is above religion, and is the real foundation of what morality is. I beleive He is a relational God, and because of that we can find direction, and oneday, in the end, absolute morality will be shown to us by Him.

 

[froggy]

Take God out the picture, take religion out the picture.

Are all humans built with a sense of morality?

If so, give examples. If so, prove it.

Or is that just faith based as well...

No we were born in sin and sin is our nature, god gives use a moral consciousness.

 

[midcan5]

Good discussion above.

I may have posted this before but I thought it worth another post. The implications of the 'fudge factor'
has interesting implications.

Dan Ariely on our buggy moral code | Video on TED.com

The following is an debate on religion.

h ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiXjaoC5yGA

[space added]

 

[ABikerSailor]

You know, when I was younger and living with my Grandparents, I learned a lot of values like work hard and work honest, never steal, and a whole bunch of other things.

Why? Simple.....it made my life easier. It also made it easier to live around other people. But, at the same time, I have no morals whatsoever.

Why? Values are ideals that an individual takes on for themselves, because they work for them.

Morals are values that are impressed UPON the individual by society at large. You didn't choose them, they were forced upon you by the people you're visiting.

By the way, you can see the same thing in Salt Lake City. They don't do things like the rest of the country (even though they are part of it). You can't get alcohol very easily, and a lot of other things.

That place is full of morals because they expect you to live as they do, regardless of what your own nature tells you.

Same with most Christian churches by the way............say a cuss word in church and watch all of them look at you VERY disapprovingly. No matter that you might have just stubbed your toe or gotten shot.

Travel to an Amish village sometime. You'll see it there as well.

What are morals? Basically the rules of any given clique, that are impressed upon the individuals who want to join.

And....if you break the rules, you can be kicked out of the clique (banished). But, that comes with it's own rewards.............

The freedom from morality of others.

 

[PixieStix]

How I see it is that we are ingrained with a natural compass of right and wrong, I for one believe that that natural compass gets marred and eventually broken if we continue to go against the natural grain of our souls. Kind of like going against the grain of wood, it mares it's beauty, also the beauty of a human becomes marred with going against our grain. You can feel it in your gut.

I believe that is why many people are so unhappy, they have become jaded to their own moral compass, and with all they/we are bombarded with in the world today, we are being told we must conform to what we may think is immoral or unjust.

Common decency and common grace is a rare commodity these days

 

[ABikerSailor]

How I see it is that we are ingrained with a natural compass of right and wrong, I for one believe that that natural compass gets marred and eventually broken if we continue to go against the natural grain of our souls. Kind of like going against the grain of wood, it mares it's beauty, also the beauty of a human becomes marred with going against our grain. You can feel it in your gut.

I believe that is why many people are so unhappy, they have become jaded to their own moral compass, and with all they/we are bombarded with in the world today, we are being told we must conform to what we may think is immoral or unjust.

Common decency and common grace is a rare commodity these days

That "natural compass" is actually a neat little thing called "free will". I once read an interesting thing on this once. Seems that a mortal was talking to God, and asking why we were given free will (he originally started by asking to have it removed so that he wouldn't sin).

The basic answer was actually pretty simple. Without free will, we would do more damage to ourselves and others than what we currently do WITH it.

Why? Again.......basic human physiology and psychology............nobody likes living in pain (which is one reason torture never works), but everyone likes to feel good, and, if they see someone NOT feeling good (especially during this season), they are motivated to feel compassion, and thereby help THEM to feel good.

Now...........based on that idea of having everyone feel good, that is what motivates people to form the social groups they do, and, because the group takes the needs of the individuals AFTER the needs of the group (the group can do without the individual up to a point), which results in rules and morals being forced upon all of them.

 

[uscitizen]

The best way to foster morality is to treat others as you want them to treat you.

 

[PixieStix]

The best way to foster morality is to treat others as you want them to treat you.

The problem is today, most people are too selfish to understand that concept, when they are on the recieving end, they look at you like you are crazy

 

[Smartt33]

I just realized that this is almost proof that all religions are man made.

"No one religion established all societies or culture. "​

Of course, all religions are man made. Religion is man's way of reaching out to, or trying to find God. That is why so many Christians have come to realize that it is their relationship with God that is real. The relationship is established through His Word.

His Word is Recognized and digested, Through Conscience. If You are coming from a Christian Foundation, Consider "John 15:26" and the effect.

It is true, the very coming of the Spirit, sent by Jesus after He ascended, is the very means by which we know God, and His awesome Word.

 

[Diuretic]

I have to take issue with the assertion that there is no right and wrong. Yes there is. Because moral absolutism has largely been rejected in secular life for the more difficult moral relativism doesn't wipe out two basic, socially defined concepts. The concepts of "right" and "wrong" appear in any society of humans. The ability to label an action in that way is one of the differentiations between us and other animals.

 

[Intense]

I have to take issue with the assertion that there is no right and wrong. Yes there is. Because moral absolutism has largely been rejected in secular life for the more difficult moral relativism doesn't wipe out two basic, socially defined concepts. The concepts of "right" and "wrong" appear in any society of humans. The ability to label an action in that way is one of the differentiations between us and other animals.

It is the distinction between Good and Evil, something the Good can't live without, and the Evil can't live with. You may reject Moral Absolutism, I do not. Your Perspective may be relative, the object remains what it is.

 

[ABikerSailor]

"Right"..........that which gives us pleasure.

"Wrong"............that which causes pain.

You can use good and evil in place of right and wrong by the way. And.......remember........before you go too far in one direction of the moral absolute, what would you think of living in a Mayan civilization? How's about an Egyptian one?

Samurai perhaps?

All have different values of "right" and "wrong". What is wrong in one society, is very much right in another.

Good example is the beaches of the Mediterranean during the summer, and compared to those of the US.

 

[Intense]

"Right"..........that which gives us pleasure.

"Wrong"............that which causes pain.

You can use good and evil in place of right and wrong by the way. And.......remember........before you go too far in one direction of the moral absolute, what would you think of living in a Mayan civilization? How's about an Egyptian one?

Samurai perhaps?

All have different values of "right" and "wrong". What is wrong in one society, is very much right in another.

Good example is the beaches of the Mediterranean during the summer, and compared to those of the US.

Right.... That which brings resolution, Growth, Understanding, Learning, Healing, Reconciliation, Redemption, Life, Ethical Treatment, Value for Value, An Honest Scale, to name a few thoughts here.

Wrong........ Brings Violence, Harm, Hurt, Damage, Theft, Loss of Liberty, Undeserved Compensation, Injustice, Extortion, Bribery, Libel, Fraud.

The Societies that Serve Justice seem to fare better.

 

[Diuretic]

I have to take issue with the assertion that there is no right and wrong. Yes there is. Because moral absolutism has largely been rejected in secular life for the more difficult moral relativism doesn't wipe out two basic, socially defined concepts. The concepts of "right" and "wrong" appear in any society of humans. The ability to label an action in that way is one of the differentiations between us and other animals.

It is the distinction between Good and Evil, something the Good can't live without, and the Evil can't live with. You may reject Moral Absolutism, I do not. Your Perspective may be relative, the object remains what it is.

What's "good" or what's "evil" is relative. There are no moral absolutes and certainly none labelled "good" or "evil". The terms themselves are subjective. Their very existence proves my point. Go anywhere in the world an ask "what is good?" and "what is evil?" and you will get many interpretations. Everything is relative, everything must be thought through.

 

[Diuretic]

"Right"..........that which gives us pleasure.

"Wrong"............that which causes pain.

You can use good and evil in place of right and wrong by the way. And.......remember........before you go too far in one direction of the moral absolute, what would you think of living in a Mayan civilization? How's about an Egyptian one?

Samurai perhaps?

All have different values of "right" and "wrong". What is wrong in one society, is very much right in another.

Good example is the beaches of the Mediterranean during the summer, and compared to those of the US.

Right.... That which brings resolution, Growth, Understanding, Learning, Healing, Reconciliation, Redemption, Life, Ethical Treatment, Value for Value, An Honest Scale, to name a few thoughts here.

Wrong........ Brings Violence, Harm, Hurt, Damage, Theft, Loss of Liberty, Undeserved Compensation, Injustice, Extortion, Bribery, Libel, Fraud.

The Societies that Serve Justice seem to fare better.

All relative. Just to use one example - violence can be good. We recognise that by substituting other words and phrases in order to disguise its nature. Try this one, "reasonable force". It's controlled violence and it is legally acceptable so it must be put on the "good" side of the ledger.

There are no moral absolutes.

 

[dilloduck]

I have to take issue with the assertion that there is no right and wrong. Yes there is. Because moral absolutism has largely been rejected in secular life for the more difficult moral relativism doesn't wipe out two basic, socially defined concepts. The concepts of "right" and "wrong" appear in any society of humans. The ability to label an action in that way is one of the differentiations between us and other animals.

It is the distinction between Good and Evil, something the Good can't live without, and the Evil can't live with. You may reject Moral Absolutism, I do not. Your Perspective may be relative, the object remains what it is.

What's "good" or what's "evil" is relative. There are no moral absolutes and certainly none labelled "good" or "evil". The terms themselves are subjective. Their very existence proves my point. Go anywhere in the world an ask "what is good?" and "what is evil?" and you will get many interpretations. Everything is relative, everything must be thought through.

agreed---purely an investion of man--I guess as a way for millions of individuals to try to be on the same page.

 

[FactFinder]

moral relativity is only supported by the selfish and those trying to absolve their conscience.

so exploitation of the poor and children is relative?

 

[dilloduck]

moral relativity is only supported by the selfish and those trying to absolve their conscience.

so exploitation of the poor and children is relative?

look at the animal kingdom that we belong to. The weak are eaten

 

[FactFinder]

moral relativity is only supported by the selfish and those trying to absolve their conscience.

so exploitation of the poor and children is relative?

look at the animal kingdom that we belong to. The weak are eaten

Then we eat the animals and philosophize on whether we should.