There HAS to be life on other planets..

[Flash]

FALSE

Goddammit, you stupid fucktards keep repeating that LIE.

It's been done in the laboratory from scratch FORTY times already.

There are already three brand new species because of it, that never existed before.

Stop with the bullshit, 'kay? It gives righties a bad name.


Please refer to my other thread. You can see graphically how it works in real life.

We now have AI and neural network models for these things. In the brain, pushing a neural network into criticality gives it 50x the speed and 2000x times the memory.

In a segment of DNA, one change in a base pair (a "point mutation") can push the entire system into criticality.

I mean no offense, but you need to hit the books. This is not your father's science. Criticality is extremely complex, so much so we can't even tell what we're looking at most of the time. However we can pick up fractal and power law signatures that give us clues.

Science is TODAY, not yesterday. Yesterday, Craig Vetter and his colleagues created a minimal life form from scratch in the laboratory. They synthesized all the DNA by hand (or rather, by machine). There were ZERO components from existing living cells. This science has been replicated hundreds of times already, all over the world.

Today, biophysicist like me are revisiting micelles. We have now catalogued all the different ways proteins can embed themselves into cell membranes, naturally forming trimers and tetramers by adopting their lowest stable energies. All this occurs through SELF assembly, humans just put the right number of molecules into a beaker and the rest happens by itself.

Life is a natural and inevitable consequence of the fabric of spacetime. There's nothing magical or mysterious about it.

You are confused. We have not created life in the laboratory. What you think is life in not life.

We have put together the components of what we think are the right things for life but it is still Chemistry and not Biology.

Even if we do ever produce life in a sanitized high tech laboratory that doesn't explain how those same conditions could have been reproduced in a primitive and possible hostile environment on the surface of a planet.

The only thing we will know if we ever do produce life in a lab is what we already know. That it is possible to turn Chemistry into Biology. We already know it because it happen here on earth in some very unique circumstances that may or not have ever been reproduced elsewhere. A step forward but not conclusive evidence that life exist elsewhere.

The much more conclusive evidence would be a little green man landing in a space ship or more realistic going to Mars and finding indisputable evidence that microbial life once existed before the solar winds destroyed the environment.

Synthesizing Life in the Laboratory: Why is it not Happening?

Laboratory abiogenesis is one of the ultimate goals of experimental biology. The most formidable barrier to create living matter in the laboratory is not the complexity of the cell, rather the absolute requirement for non-equilibrium steady state for all chemical reactions. Current synthetic...

www.grisda.org

At this point, the dead cell contains most of its nucleic acids, proteins, lipids, polysaccharides and metabolites. Therefore, while the genetic material, RNA, enzymes, polysaccharides and lipids are all necessary components of a live cell; their mere presence is not sufficient for life. In live cells, superimposed on all of the necessary biopolymers is the steady state non-equilibrium dynamics of all chemical events.

Has life been created in the laboratory?

No life has been created, there is no artificial life. There is only an artificial DNA, which can function as a natural one.

bioethicsobservatory.org

In short, no life has been created, there is no artificial life, there are no artificial cells. There is only (and it is a lot) an artificial DNA, which can function as a natural one, at least up to a limited number of generations. What remains until a living cell is artificially produced is still a colossal challenge, one that may never be overcome. And, of course, there is no point in trying to make pseudo-metaphysical somersaults from these experiments.

 

[ChemEngineer]

The Miserable End of Darwinism

themiserableendofdarwinism.blogspot.com

Statistical proof that primitive Darwinism is not science.

 

[Captain Caveman]

Just because mankind hasn't found it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist, whatever that might be; aliens, a peculiar type of star, new elements etc..

If there's a trillions galaxies, each with a trillion stars with trillions of planets, and you gotta ask yourself, "With those odds, does life only exist on earth", I'm certainly not going to bookies to place a bet.

Just because we can't cover vast distances and check out all the planets, I'm in the, "Possible to likelies" group that life elsewhere exists. But that's just my opinion. What would life elsewhere look like? Well, with all the different life forms on earth that vary in shape, colour, texture, environments they can tolerate etc.. I wouldn't like to guess.

And to call the human race an intelligent species? That's debatable.

 

[Captain Caveman]

Sigh.

How many times do we have to tell your ignorant self, that there's NO SUCH THING AS NOTHING.

"NOTHING" doesn't exist. It's a figment of your imagination.

Well, metaphysicians would debate you on that. For a basis of measurement, you need nothing, so does that nothing exist. So they get deep into that philosophical side of things that I've not fully read up on.

I have enough books to get through as it is

 

[Flash]

Just because mankind hasn't found it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist,

Of course.

However, it also means we don't know if it exist.

Space is big. Far bigger than humans can imagine and the distance between the stars is enormous.

For instance, if our sun was the size of a golf ball the earth would the size of a grain of sand and a human space ship microscopic, like the size of a virus. On that scale the nearest star would be about 750 miles away.

That is like the golf ball I have in the garage in my home outside Tampa being our sun and the nearest star being in Bowling Green Kentucky. Think about that scale.

Unless there is some science fiction type of warp drive out there that hasn't been discovered yet I doubt we will ever get farther than Mars. Even Mars would be a massive undertaking costing billions of dollars.

I suspect unless we find some evidence of primordial life on Mars we will probably die out as a species before that question is answered.

 

[Donald H]

Read about the minimal cell, then get back to us.

Is that Christians' answer to irreducible complexity?

I would rather not until you clarify the intent.

 

[Captain Caveman]

Of course.

However, it also means we don't know if it exist.

Space is big. Far bigger than humans can imagine and the distance between the stars is enormous.

For instance, if our sun was the size of a golf ball the earth would the size of a grain of sand and a human space ship microscopic, like the size of a virus. On that scale the nearest star would be about 750 miles away.

That is like the golf ball I have in the garage in my home outside Tampa being our sun and the nearest star being in Bowling Green Kentucky. Think about that scale.




View attachment 922611

Unless there is some science fiction type of warp drive out there that hasn't been discovered yet I doubt we will ever get farther than Mars. Even Mars would be a massive undertaking costing billions of dollars.

I suspect unless we find some evidence of primordial life on Mars we will probably die out as a species before that question is answered.

And our sun is the size of a grain of sand to some suns, probably to some unknown planets.

Unless mankind can kickstart a magnetic field strong enough to hold an atmosphere, people on Mars will forever live in sealed pods.

Imo, the majority of science research and money should be going into the research and development of a spaceship propulsion system to get us across vast distances in a meaningful timeframe. Scientists claiming they found planet bla bla that's probably earth like, means diddly squat if we can't get there.

 

[Dante]

I don't know what you have been bitching about. I have presented the facts as I know them. I have even listed the facts and they indisputable. I have given links to videos on the subject by scientists that are much better at explaining the facts than I am.

There is no other life in the universe as far as we know. We don't even know the conditions for life to get started from Chemistry. We have nothing of substance.

Until we get more information we have nothing but speculation and wishful thinking.

You need to go and look at the videos I posted. They are not videos posted by some nutjob. They are videos made by a noted scientist from Columbia University that explains the reality.

Also, I have a reading assignment for you. Go read the book "Rare Earth, Why Complex Life is Uncommon in the Universe" by Ward and Brownlee.

View attachment 910930

again, I'm not sure who you are responding to.

 

[Flash]

again, I'm not sure who you are responding to.

Just commenting on how big space really is and how difficult it will be for humans to ever go star trekking across the universe to see if there are green Orion Slave girls to screw.

 

[Dante]

Just commenting on how big space really is and how difficult it will be for humans to ever go star trekking across the universe to see if there are green Orion Slave girls to screw.

Humans use surrogates to trek across the universe. And not too long ago people could not fathom humans doing that. Science and technology will change what can and will be done. Pretending you know everything is probably caused by some leftover corrupted shit in the gene pool.

 

[Flash]

Humans use surrogates to trek across the universe. And not too long ago people could not fathom humans doing that. Science and technology will change what can and will be done. Pretending you know everything is probably caused by some leftover corrupted shit in the gene pool.

Being an Engineer I learned a long time ago to separate fantasy from reality.

The reality is that right now we only know of life on earth and that the technology to get much beyond Mars just doesn't exist. The Laws of Physics are working against us. For instance, it will take all the energy produced on earth for three years just to get a shuttle type space craft to one third the speed of light.

The problem, that I mentioned earlier in this thread, is our perception of the Universe has been greatly influenced by 100 years of science fiction. We think we can go star trekking across the Universe any day now. Just a matter of time, huh?

 

[ChemEngineer]

Just because mankind hasn't found it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist, whatever that might be; aliens, a peculiar type of star, new elements etc..

If there's a trillions galaxies, each with a trillion stars with trillions of planets, and you gotta ask yourself, "With those odds, does life only exist on earth", I'm certainly not going to bookies to place a bet.

You act as if "trillions" is a large number. It most certainly is not. It's close to zero, but it impresses you.

Let me explain to you what large numbers are. The universe consists of "only" 10 to the 80th fundamental particles. That too is close to zero.
I'll explain further down.

IJust because we can't cover vast distances and check out all the planets, I'm in the, "Possible to likelies" group that life elsewhere exists. But that's just my opinion. What would life elsewhere look like? Well, with all the different life forms on earth that vary in shape, colour, texture, environments they can tolerate etc.. I wouldn't like to guess.

You've been watching Star Trek too much. There IS no "life" elsewhere. Carbon is unique in building cells for life. Nothing else comes close.

Now titin is the largest protein in humans. It is part of our muscles.
Titin has 38,138 amino acids in precise sequence.

What is the probability of original, naturalistic synthesis of titin?
One in 20 amino acids to the 38,138th power, times 1/2 to the 38,138th power for L selection rather than the mirror image D amino acid, times 1/2 to the 38,138th power for the peptide bond, rather than the equally probable non-peptide bond. The product of these is 1 chance in 1 followed by 72, 578 zeroes. Now THAT is a big number.
Emil Borel, an eminent statistician, declared that "one chance in 10 to the 50th power is impossible." Ten to the 50th marbles only 1 cm in diameter would fill 72,000+ spheres the size of earth. Pick the unique marble on your first and only try. Not gonna happen. Calculations available on request. They are trivial.

One more thing. There are more than 20,000 other proteins in humans.

And to call the human race an intelligent species? That's debatable.

Given the idiots running Washington, D.C., your point is well taken.
D.C. has a higher percentage of homeless people than Left-wing California, where I reside. People's Republic of California is the state with the highest taxes, highest number and percentage of homeless, most people moving out to escape the insanity, and on and on.

People's Republic of California

peoplesrepublicofcalifornia.wordpress.com

 

[Flash]

You act as if "trillions" is a large number. It most certainly is not. It's close to zero, but it impresses you.

Let me explain to you what large numbers are. The universe consists of "only" 10 to the 80th fundamental particles. That too is close to zero.
I'll explain further down.


You've been watching Star Trek too much. There IS no "life" elsewhere. Carbon is unique in building cells for life. Nothing else comes close.

Now titin is the largest protein in humans. It is part of our muscles.
Titin has 38,138 amino acids in precise sequence.

What is the probability of original, naturalistic synthesis of titin?
One in 20 amino acids to the 38,138th power, times 1/2 to the 38,138th power for L selection rather than the mirror image D amino acid, times 1/2 to the 38,138th power for the peptide bond, rather than the equally probable non-peptide bond. The product of these is 1 chance in 1 followed by 72, 578 zeroes. Now THAT is a big number.
Emil Borel, an eminent statistician, declared that "one chance in 10 to the 50th power is impossible." Ten to the 50th marbles only 1 cm in diameter would fill 72,000+ spheres the size of earth. Pick the unique marble on your first and only try. Not gonna happen. Calculations available on request. They are trivial.

One more thing. There are more than 20,000 other proteins in humans.


Given the idiots running Washington, D.C., your point is well taken.
D.C. has a higher percentage of homeless people than Left-wing California, where I reside. People's Republic of California is the state with the highest taxes, highest number and percentage of homeless, most people moving out to escape the insanity, and on and on.

People's Republic of California

peoplesrepublicofcalifornia.wordpress.com

Excellent points.

Outside of being influenced by Science Fiction the biggest problem humans have in accepting reality is they think just because life happen here on earth it must be common or at least happen elsewhere.

That is total ignorance not really knowing how life got started on earth. It could have been the result of an astronomical number of rare events coming together at just the right time under the right circumstances in the right environment. It may never have happen before in the universe.

If this is a finite universe then unique things could be in it.

We just don't know if life exist elsewhere or if it is unique to earth. Claiming that it "just gotta be elsewhere" is science ignorance.

 

[Cougarbear]

I’m not talking about little green men, and I’ve never been a believer in aliens, I’ve never seen any evidence to prove to me that there are. However…there are hundreds of billions of galaxies, some say even trillions of galaxies. The odds that when the universe formed, that our planet is the ONLY one that ended up being able to sustain intelligent life would have to be astronomically high. It would almost seem impossible that what happened on on earth didn’t also happen somewhere else, or in many different places.

My thought on this is that if earth is the only place where humans ended up, you’d almost have to believe in creation to believe that.

Thoughts?

No, if your really understand the words of the Bible you would realize that God the Father is the father of trillions of spirits or his spirit children. And he’s been populating other worlds. The key is as we go into the Easter season is that our world, earth, is the only world with his children that would be evil enough to kill their Savior God to complete the atonement for all worlds.

 

[Dante]

Being an Engineer I learned a long time ago to separate fantasy from reality.

The reality is that right now we only know of life on earth and that the technology to get much beyond Mars just doesn't exist. The Laws of Physics are working against us. For instance, it will take all the energy produced on earth for three years just to get a shuttle type space craft to one third the speed of light.

The problem, that I mentioned earlier in this thread, is our perception of the Universe has been greatly influenced by 100 years of science fiction. We think we can go star trekking across the Universe any day now. Just a matter of time, huh?

Speak for yourself

I agree with the facts being what they are today. But you and I have no clue what the future holds.

"We think we can go star trekking across the Universe any day now. Just a matter of time, huh?" - there you go again, acting as if you're arguing with me. You're not. /you should probably go back and see my first few posts here.

 

[Flash]

Speak for yourself

I agree with the facts being what they are today. But you and I have no clue what the future holds.

"We think we can go star trekking across the Universe any day now. Just a matter of time, huh?" - there you go again, acting as if you're arguing with me. You're not. /you should probably go back and see my first few posts here.

This is not a thread for arguing, It is a thread for giving opinions on something none of us knows much about. You had a lot of interesting things to post. Don't get butt hurt when somebody responds to you with their own opinion, even when it closely aligns with yours.

I would love for a real Zefram Cochrane to come up with a warp drive that could go 85 times the speed of light, which is what they have in the Star Trek lore. But that was only Science Fiction.

I would love to to travel to one of the stars in the Orion constellation and find a planet with beautiful green sexy women. But as of now it is only Science Fiction.

I would love for there to be so many inhabited planets that they would have to form political confederations to provide economic trade and security alliances. That would be cool but it is only Science Fiction.

I am a skeptic when it comes to believing in life elsewhere. To me the universe doesn't seem very friendly towards life outside of our little planet. Not being able to reproduce life in a lab also tells me that it is extremely complicated and may not be elsewhere.

 

[ChemEngineer]

No, if your really understand the words of the Bible you would realize that God the Father is the father of trillions of spirits or his spirit children. And he’s been populating other worlds.

Sure God has. That's scriptural, right? What verse, exactly?

Humans aren't going anywhere. It took one of our probes eleven years to leave our solar system. Eleven years of space travel for a few people would take a LOT of food, oxygen, and water - more than any spacecraft could accommodate. The nearest star is thousands of years away at 25,000 miles per hour.

 

[luiza]

Unless there is some science fiction type of warp drive out there that hasn't been discovered yet I doubt we will ever get farther than Mars. Even Mars would be a massive undertaking costing billions of dollars.

You only think in terms of our Physics which we slowly revise over time .
Currently Quantum Theory suggests that Space and perhaps also Time "fold" under certain conditions .
So . If and when we can utilise those constructs, any need for Warp Drives will have disappeared .

 

[Dante]

This is not a thread for arguing, It is a thread for giving opinions on something none of us knows much about. You had a lot of interesting things to post. Don't get butt hurt when somebody responds to you with their own opinion, even when it closely aligns with yours.

I would love for a real Zefram Cochrane to come up with a warp drive that could go 85 times the speed of light, which is what they have in the Star Trek lore. But that was only Science Fiction.

I would love to to travel to one of the stars in the Orion constellation and find a planet with beautiful green sexy women. But as of now it is only Science Fiction.

I would love for there to be so many inhabited planets that they would have to form political confederations to provide economic trade and security alliances. That would be cool but it is only Science Fiction.

I am a skeptic when it comes to believing in life elsewhere. To me the universe doesn't seem very friendly towards life outside of our little planet. Not being able to reproduce life in a lab also tells me that it is extremely complicated and may not be elsewhere.

"butt hurt?"

Why do people like you always project?

 

[Flash]

You only think in terms of our Physics which we slowly revise over time .
Currently Quantum Theory suggests that Space and perhaps also Time "fold" under certain conditions .
So . If and when we can utilise those constructs, any need for Warp Drives will have disappeared .

Yea, we can say those kind of things but putting together an engine in the back of a spaceship that doesn't need the energy of an entire planet for three years jut to get 1/3rd the speed of light is quite another.

One of the things hardly ever mentioned.

Space is not empty. It has molecules in it. Not to mention dust and whatever. When you start going really really fast like the speed of light that will produces friction. Like when we saw the shuttles glow upon reentry to the atmosphere. Only it is spread out rather than be concentrated.

In other words an interstellar space better have a really good heat shield. Funny, I never saw one on the Enterprise or the Millennium Falcon.