docmauser1
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Where is it written that those major arab settlers and squatters from their respective vaterlands got to be saudi sheiks to own(!) 90%(!) of the mandate palestine? Where?! Dammit! Proof!
The World Is Sick Of Israeli Atrocities...
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montelatici
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The land registry doesn't lie. You can whine and stamp your feet like a baby all you want. The facts are clear. Let's see it again, read it and weep. By the way, why would the British lie?
Arabs owned more than 90%.
Arabs owned more than 90%.
docmauser1
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Why wouldn't the brits lie?
Where is it written that those major arab settlers and squatters from their respective vaterlands got to be saudi sheiks to own(!) 90%(!) of the mandate palestine? Where?! Dammit! Proof!
Within living memory, the Israelis have been assaulted, on multiple occasions, by the combined military might of Egypt, Iraq, Syria, Jordan and Lebanon, with logistics, financial and personnel support from other neighboring Muslim-Arab countries, under circumstances where those adversaries were armed with state-of-the-art Soviet weaponry.
Most sane Muslims - those sane enough to rule, anyway - know that the Israelis (1) want nothing more than to complete their own modest Reconquista and (2) will be peaceful neighbors after the Reconquista if left alone and (3) will kick their asses again if they go to war with her again.
And, given that (a) most neighboring Muslim countries have been shaken-up enough so that it will be years or decades before they can threaten Israel again militarily and (b) The West will be going to war to suppress ISIS-ISIL in the not-too-distant future, I seriously doubt that Israel has anything substantive to worry about from the Arab world anytime soon.
Planned Annexations and Pacification continue apace.
montelatici
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Right up until the time that the Israelis change the demographics by expelling the troublemakers to points lying outside their borders.
Hossfly
ZIONIST
Then you had better hope the bastards don't have any misfires or missed opportunities.
Oh, I get it.
I just think your prognosis is wrong.
The Jews do not have to pacify the region.
They just need to complete their own far more modest Reconquista.
See below.
An outcome that is 80-90% realized already - not much further to go now.
Once completed, and once the dust settles, things will be quiet there for centuries.
The world - and even much of the nearby Arab world - will breath a sigh of relief.
And the world gets to move on with far more important business.
montelatici
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They got away with ethnic cleansing once, they won't again.
montelatici
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Oh, I get it.
I just think your prognosis is wrong.
The Jews do not have to pacify the region.
They just need to complete their own far more modest Reconquista.
See below.
An outcome that is 80-90% realized already - not much further to go now.
Once completed, and once the dust settles, things will be quiet there for centuries.
The world - and even much of the nearby Arab world - will breath a sigh of relief.
And the world gets to move on with far more important business.
Why are you posting propaganda when that specific propaganda has already been debunked?
Let's repeat, note how the Emir went from Amman Trans-Jordania to Palestine. And, how the Palestine administration would travel to Trans-Jordania. Always making fools of yourselves posting propaganda.
"I paid a visit to Amman on April 18th as the guest of the Emir and explained in an address to the sheikhs and notables the arrangement that had been made. The Emir came to Palestine again in the month of May. The political and technical officers of the Palestine Administration have made frequent visits to Trans-Jordania and have assisted the local officials with their advice. - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921
MaryL
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I am sick of Muslim atrocities, and all the excuses. Islam, and the Arab world, attacked the US on 9/11. I have a inkling of why the Israelis just can't get along with these assh*les. You try and all it does is enable them to hurt you further, and it seems like a death spiral that Muslims enjoy, like they where nihilists with a death wish. There isn't any fair way to deal with that mentality, but to end them, or die trying. Islam seems to be a dark hate filled form of nihilism, not a religion.
pbel
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With a hundred thirty nine expulsions thus far, their tactics are not conducive to long-term survival...Maybe sharing might work.Oh, I get it.
I just think your prognosis is wrong.
The Jews do not have to pacify the region.
They just need to complete their own far more modest Reconquista.
See below.
An outcome that is 80-90% realized already - not much further to go now.
Once completed, and once the dust settles, things will be quiet there for centuries.
The world - and even much of the nearby Arab world - will breath a sigh of relief.
And the world gets to move on with far more important business.
Expulsion, when it comes, will deal in incremental hundreds of thousands, not the chump-change you're referring to here.With a hundred thirty nine expulsions thus far, their tactics are not conducive to long-term survival...Maybe sharing might work.Oh, I get it.
I just think your prognosis is wrong.
The Jews do not have to pacify the region.
They just need to complete their own far more modest Reconquista.
See below.
An outcome that is 80-90% realized already - not much further to go now.
Once completed, and once the dust settles, things will be quiet there for centuries.
The world - and even much of the nearby Arab world - will breath a sigh of relief.
And the world gets to move on with far more important business.
Backed by a massive, overwhelming show of military force.
The Jews tried sharing off-and-on for much of the first half-century after Independence, and it does not work in their case, thanks to Palestinian intransigence.
When something stands in the way of your long-term survival, and when you have the strength to push that obstacle out of the way or to destroy it, you are eventually going to end-up doing one or the other.
The Israelis are far too humane to destroy the Palestinians outright, except as a last resort in extremis.
That leaves pushing them out of the way.
Who's going to stop them?
docmauser1
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And then palistanians wil overbreed their habitat, and will want to expand their lebensraum, and will start a new armed conflict, of course.
docmauser1
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Our honorable montelatici may keep telling himself that, of course.
1 This is a part of every UN resolution dealing with the Palestinian question so is not a pre condition but a demand from the world at large. While the Palestinians are engaging in violence and terrorism Israel HAS THE LEGAL RIGHT TO RETALIATE IN ITS DEFENCE OF CIVILIANS
2 The have already agreed to this in the Oslo Accords 2 that details land in the west bank and Jerusalm that will be for Israeli settlements. And don't forget that it is the Palestinians that have taken Jerusalem illegally in 1948, so the Israelis have taken it back for everyone.
3 The UN declared that Israel was to be known and accepted as a Jewish state, just as Iraq,iran, Jordan, Syria and Pakistan amongst others are Islamic states. The PLO recognised Israel as a Jewish state and all Israel wants is for the P.A. to accept them as such.
But these are not pre conditions to sitting down and talking are they, but conditions that will be included in any talks about the futire of Israel and Palestine. The Palestinian conditions are demands of what must be met before they will even contemplate any possibility of talks and are designed to bring all talks to a halt before they get of the ground. Only the brainwashed cant see that the Palestinians don't want peace and put these obstacles in the way of talks every time.
Of course they do. On the other hand - there is nothing to stop Israel from continuing to target Palestinians in the WB and Gaza even if the Palestinians have halted all rocket fire. Do you see the difference?
It is being set as a pre-condition - it is stated up front as a pre-condition. It's no different than the Palestinian demand to freeze settlement building. The demand that Israel cease settlement building is a demand from the world at large and has been the subject of multiple UN resolutions- so why do you call that a "pre-condition" then?
The Oslo II Accords: West Bank Areas in the Oslo II Accord - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Settlement violations of Oslo Accords 2: Israel Continues to Build and Expand Its Illegal Colonies
Settlement Violations of the Fourth Geneva Convention: Israel s Violations of the Oslo Agreements
The Fourth Geneva Convention, ratified by Israel in June 1951 and which was not superceded by the Oslo Agreements, prohibits Israel from establishing colonies in the Occupied Palestinian Territories. Article 49 (6) of the Fourth Geneva Convention states “The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.” The Oslo Agreements reaffirm this position. Article 31 of the Interim Agreement provides that “the two parties view the West Bank and Gaza Strip as a single territorial unit, the integrity and status of which will be preserved during the interim period.” Article 31 also provides that “neither side shall initiate or take any step that will change the status of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip pending the outcome of the permanent status negotiations.”
Despite these articles and in violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention, Israel has since 1993:
Despite these articles and in violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention, Israel has since 1993:
- Doubled the number of settlers living in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. There are now approximately 400,000;[2]
- Increased the number of illegal housing units in the Occupied Palestinian Territories (excluding Occupied East Jerusalem) by 62%;[3]
- Confiscated more than 60,000 acres of Palestinian land for colony construction and related by-pass roads, uprooted 220,000 trees and demolished 690 homes in the West Bank alone; [4] and
- Removed from official government maps the Green Line separating Israel from the Occupied Palestinian Territories, thereby failing to recognize the Occupied Palestinian Territories as a “single territorial unit”. (See official Touring Map of Israel issued by the Israeli Ministry of Tourism).
International Law and Israeli Settlements: International law and Israeli settlements - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
The international community considers the establishment of Israeli settlements in the Israeli-occupied territories illegal under international law,[1][2][3][4][5] however Israel maintains that they are consistent with international law[6] because it does not agree that the Fourth Geneva Convention applies to the territories occupied in the 1967 Six-Day War.[7] The United Nations Security Council, the United Nations General Assembly, the International Committee of the Red Cross, the International Court of Justice and the High Contracting Parties to the Convention have all affirmed that the Fourth Geneva Convention does apply.[8][9]
Numerous UN resolutions have stated that the building and existence of Israeli settlements in the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights are a violation of international law, including UN Security Council resolutions in 1979 and 1980.[10][11][12] UN Security Council Resolution 446 refers to the Fourth Geneva Convention as the applicable international legal instrument, and calls upon Israel to desist from transferring its own population into the territories or changing their demographic makeup. The reconvened Conference of the High Contracting Parties to the Geneva Conventions has declared the settlements illegal[13] as has the primary judicial organ of the UN, the International Court of Justice[14] and the International Committee of the Red Cross.
The position of successive Israeli governments is that all authorized settlements are entirely legal and consistent with international law,[15] despite Israel's armistice agreements having all being with High Contracting Parties.[16] In practice, Israel does not accept that the Fourth Geneva Convention applies de jure, but has stated that on humanitarian issues it will govern itself de facto by its provisions, without specifying which these are.[17][18] The majority of legal scholars hold the settlements to violate international law, while others have offered dissenting views supporting the Israeli position.[2]
Numerous UN resolutions have stated that the building and existence of Israeli settlements in the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights are a violation of international law, including UN Security Council resolutions in 1979 and 1980.[10][11][12] UN Security Council Resolution 446 refers to the Fourth Geneva Convention as the applicable international legal instrument, and calls upon Israel to desist from transferring its own population into the territories or changing their demographic makeup. The reconvened Conference of the High Contracting Parties to the Geneva Conventions has declared the settlements illegal[13] as has the primary judicial organ of the UN, the International Court of Justice[14] and the International Committee of the Red Cross.
The position of successive Israeli governments is that all authorized settlements are entirely legal and consistent with international law,[15] despite Israel's armistice agreements having all being with High Contracting Parties.[16] In practice, Israel does not accept that the Fourth Geneva Convention applies de jure, but has stated that on humanitarian issues it will govern itself de facto by its provisions, without specifying which these are.[17][18] The majority of legal scholars hold the settlements to violate international law, while others have offered dissenting views supporting the Israeli position.[2]
So...why is it you call a demand to "cease settlement building" a "pre-condition" then - if we follow the same logic you use to portray Israel's "pre-conditions" as "not pre-conditions"?
Have those states demanded that other nations recognize them formally as "Islamic States" or as Iraq, Iran, etc? Israel can call it what itself whatever it wants. It can't force others to do so. For years the demand was to recognize Israel and it's right to exist. That's a reasonable demand.
And, if you are going to conveniently use the UN to bolster your argument that these are not "pre-conditions" (which they are)....then the cessation of settlement construction can't be considered a "pre-condition" either.
Pre-conditions are pre-conditions whether it's for initiating talks or for negotiating peace. It amounts to the same thing in the end - the pre-condtions must be accepted in order for the talks to result in anything. How can you say Netanahu really wants peace given that? Israeli Preconditions for Peace
montelatici
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