The World Is Sick Of Israeli Atrocities...

[Penelope]

I believe Kondor 3 is right. The UN really needs to get aggressive or the Arab countries in support of the Pals need to gain up, oh darn if only

Israel didn't have nukes and would take the world with it, if it meant their demise, I really do believe that.

Israel has to go as far as to make its own false flags (which I really believe) and put the blame on the Pals and or Hamas, or whoever, as an excuse to go to war and get more land and kill more Pals. So for the Pals to start a war, no need Israel will find a reason.

Someone from outside of Israel needs to step in, and Israel should start to have heavy sanctions by other countries given to it , you know like what is happening to Iran , only much more harsh, until the radical Zioinist gov, learns to act like human beings.

Many in Israel itself want rid of the radical Zionist gov.


















]

 

[Hossfly]

I believe Kondor 3 is right. The UN really needs to get aggressive or the Arab countries in support of the Pals need to gain up, oh darn if only

Israel didn't have nukes and would take the world with it, if it meant their demise, I really do believe that.

Israel has to go as far as to make its own false flags (which I really believe) and put the blame on the Pals and or Hamas, or whoever, as an excuse to go to war and get more land and kill more Pals. So for the Pals to start a war, no need Israel will find a reason.

Someone from outside of Israel needs to step in, and Israel should start to have heavy sanctions by other countries given to it , you know like what is happening to Iran , only much more harsh, until the radical Zioinist gov, learns to act like human beings.

Many in Israel itself want rid of the radical Zionist gov.


















]

Hamas really loves your support.

 

[Coyote]

You have no idea what I support because you can't read past the end of your nose. .

I have read you on other boards for quite some time as well as this one, and while you may think all your dishonest double talk fools people, it doesn't.

I've only posted a few other boards and those not for years. My opinions here are what - for the most part - they've always been. I say what I mean and mean what I say - do not put words in my mouth. I seem to recall that was your habit. You certainly sound familiar. A stalker?

You are intelligent enough to indulge in the typical leftist support for something on one hand while denying you are doing so on the other and you are intelligent enough to incorporate all the hackneyed Pallywood talking points in your rhetoric with just the occasional insincere reservation for the very worst of their atrocities so you can try to claim you are somehow balanced on the subject, but I am smart enough to see through the ruse.

I have no idea what you are talking about but if you are going to accuse me of things then you damn well better provide proof of them. Find a quote or post of mine here to support your claims that I support terrorism, am a rabid anti-semite etc. If you can't then admit your a fraud.

Other than that - try addressing the points I made. I support my points with sources. You support your points with insults.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Because to admit those 66-year refugees back amongst them is to commit National Suicide.

Ain't gonna happen.

.

Beyond that is the fact that precious few of the Arabs who are being called "refugees" are over 66 years old, so could not have even been born there much less owned any land (which the vast majority didn't to begin with).

Tinmore, Coyote et al have simply bought in to the propaganda that the Arabs who began calling themselves "Palestinians" for tactical purposes have the right to flood into a land in which they have never lived, and where their grandparents and great grandparents never owned property simply because of the fact that hey created this new identity as a propaganda tool.

Arabs were already given 78% of Palestine, so the invention of these brand new people was just a ploy to start working on the other 22%.

 

[Penelope]

I believe Kondor 3 is right. The UN really needs to get aggressive or the Arab countries in support of the Pals need to gain up, oh darn if only

Israel didn't have nukes and would take the world with it, if it meant their demise, I really do believe that.

Israel has to go as far as to make its own false flags (which I really believe) and put the blame on the Pals and or Hamas, or whoever, as an excuse to go to war and get more land and kill more Pals. So for the Pals to start a war, no need Israel will find a reason.

Someone from outside of Israel needs to step in, and Israel should start to have heavy sanctions by other countries given to it , you know like what is happening to Iran , only much more harsh, until the radical Zioinist gov, learns to act like human beings.

Many in Israel itself want rid of the radical Zionist gov.


















]

Hamas really loves your support.

Hamas is no different than the gov of Israel, or even the neocons in our USA. As a matter of fact , that is their homeland they are fighting for , they are not trying to take over another country or people, just get the ones who fenced them in and stole their land.

 

[Coyote]

The Christians and Muslims were living in Palestine. Jews came from Europe and evicted most of them from Palestine. That's just a fact.

I call bullshit on that.

There were indiginous Jews living in Palestine as well.

According to the population data available there is no evidence to show that the Zionist immigration displaced Palestinians: MidEast Web - Population of Palestine

3. Zionist settlement between 1880 and 1948 did not displace or dispossess Palestinians. Every indication is that there was net Arab immigration into Palestine in this period, and that the economic situation of Palestinian Arabs improved tremendously under the British Mandate relative to surrounding countries. By 1948, there were approximately 1.35 million Arabs and 650,000 Jews living between the Jordan and the Mediterranean, more Arabs than had ever lived in Palestine before, and more Jews than had lived there since Roman times. Analysis of population by sub-districts shows that Arab population tended to increase the most between 1931 and 1948 in the same areas where there were large proportions of Jews. Therefore, Zionist immigration did not displace Arabs.​

Of course it did. Once the British were gone the Zionists implemented Plan Dalet and expelled the non-Jews. The British prevented the ethnic cleansing that's the only reason the non-Jews were not expelled sooner.

There were hardly any Jews in Palestine prior to 1850.

AN INTERIM REPORT ON THE CIVIL ADMINISTRATION OF PALESTINE, during the period 1st JULY, 1920--30th JUNE, 1921. - ​

"The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews."

- See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921

The non-Jewish population increased mostly naturally, not through immigration as is confirmed by the Mandatory in another Interim Report.

6. The estimated total population has increased in the 15 years from 1922 to the middle of 1937, by 631,272 persons. The increase is due to immigration and to the excess of births over deaths, the allocation of the total increases between these two factors being estimated to be as follows:--

	All religions.	Moslems.	Jews.	Christians.	Others.
Total increase of population Increase by migration Natural increase	631,272 281,339 349,933	286,770 25,168 261,602	302,294 245,433 56,861	38,305 10,414 27,891	3,903 324 3,579

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

- See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the LoN 31 December 1937

Looking at your second link - the Jewish population is consistently higher than the Christian population - even at the beginning, prior to any large scale immigration. Why then do make the statement: "The Christians and Muslims were living in Palestine. Jews came from Europe and evicted most of them from Palestine." -- excluding the Jews from the population census? They too are indiginous people.

 

[montelatici]

The Christians and Muslims were living in Palestine. Jews came from Europe and evicted most of them from Palestine. That's just a fact.

I call bullshit on that.

There were indiginous Jews living in Palestine as well.

According to the population data available there is no evidence to show that the Zionist immigration displaced Palestinians: MidEast Web - Population of Palestine

3. Zionist settlement between 1880 and 1948 did not displace or dispossess Palestinians. Every indication is that there was net Arab immigration into Palestine in this period, and that the economic situation of Palestinian Arabs improved tremendously under the British Mandate relative to surrounding countries. By 1948, there were approximately 1.35 million Arabs and 650,000 Jews living between the Jordan and the Mediterranean, more Arabs than had ever lived in Palestine before, and more Jews than had lived there since Roman times. Analysis of population by sub-districts shows that Arab population tended to increase the most between 1931 and 1948 in the same areas where there were large proportions of Jews. Therefore, Zionist immigration did not displace Arabs.​

Of course it did. Once the British were gone the Zionists implemented Plan Dalet and expelled the non-Jews. The British prevented the ethnic cleansing that's the only reason the non-Jews were not expelled sooner.

There were hardly any Jews in Palestine prior to 1850.

AN INTERIM REPORT ON THE CIVIL ADMINISTRATION OF PALESTINE, during the period 1st JULY, 1920--30th JUNE, 1921. - ​

"The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews."

- See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921

The non-Jewish population increased mostly naturally, not through immigration as is confirmed by the Mandatory in another Interim Report.

6. The estimated total population has increased in the 15 years from 1922 to the middle of 1937, by 631,272 persons. The increase is due to immigration and to the excess of births over deaths, the allocation of the total increases between these two factors being estimated to be as follows:--

	All religions.	Moslems.	Jews.	Christians.	Others.
Total increase of population Increase by migration Natural increase	631,272 281,339 349,933	286,770 25,168 261,602	302,294 245,433 56,861	38,305 10,414 27,891	3,903 324 3,579

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

- See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Report of the Mandatory to the LoN 31 December 1937

Looking at your second link - the Jewish population is consistently higher than the Christian population - even at the beginning, prior to any large scale immigration. Why then do make the statement: "The Christians and Muslims were living in Palestine. Jews came from Europe and evicted most of them from Palestine." -- excluding the Jews from the population census? They too are indiginous people.

No, read carefully. There were hardly any Jews in Palestine prior to the European invasion. The British say "a handful".

AN INTERIM REPORT ON THE CIVIL ADMINISTRATION OF PALESTINE, during the period 1st JULY, 1920--30th JUNE, 1921. ​

"There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*See Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.

The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews.

- See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921

 

[Penelope]

Because to admit those 66-year refugees back amongst them is to commit National Suicide.

Ain't gonna happen.

.

Beyond that is the fact that precious few of the Arabs who are being called "refugees" are over 66 years old, so could have even been born there much less owned any land (which the vast majority didn't to begin with).

Tinmore, Coyote et al have simply bought in to the propaganda that the Arabs who began calling themselves "Palestinians" for tactical purposes have the right to flood into a land in which they have never lived, and where their grandparents and great grandparents never owned property simply because of the fact that hey created this new identity as a propaganda tool.

Arabs were already given 78% of Palestine, so the invention of these brand new people was just a ploy to start working on the other 22%.

The top people of Hamas and the one who founded it, were born there and so were their parents and probably their grandparents.

 

[Kondor3]

Because to admit those 66-year refugees back amongst them is to commit National Suicide.

Ain't gonna happen.

.

Beyond that is the fact that precious few of the Arabs who are being called "refugees" are over 66 years old, so could have even been born there much less owned any land (which the vast majority didn't to begin with).

Tinmore, Coyote et al have simply bought in to the propaganda that the Arabs who began calling themselves "Palestinians" for tactical purposes have the right to flood into a land in which they have never lived, and where their grandparents and great grandparents never owned property simply because of the fact that hey created this new identity as a propaganda tool.

Arabs were already given 78% of Palestine, so the invention of these brand new people was just a ploy to start working on the other 22%.

The real point being, we need to deal with the here-and-now, rather than 66 years ago, or 100 years ago, or 150 years ago, or whatever.

The Jews now hold the land.

The Jews will still be holding the land 100 years from now.

The Palestinians have lost.

The Palestinians are squeezed onto a few postage-stamp -sized pieces of land, and they need more room to breath.

The Palestinians are going to have to move elsewhere, in order to find that breathing room.

The sooner they pack up and leave and move somewhere else, the sooner we'll have peace and quiet that stands a chance of lasting for some time.

Sucks to be a Palestinian, no doubt, but that's the way of it, as things stand now.

They're in the way - they got their butts kicked - and now it's time for that Loser's Walk, to clear off, and build new and happier lives for themselves, someplace else.

It's time for the UN to step-in and to negotiate a resettlement of the Palestinians in one or more neighboring countries, and to evacuate the few remaining postage-stamp -sized scraps of Old Palestine that they still hold.

They are a defeated and only loosely-knit-together people and they (1) need to clear off, in order to establish a more lasting peace and (2) deserve better lives, elsewhere.

I would be ecstatically happy for the United States - as part of a Palestinian evacuation and resettlement - to join with the rest of the world, to help the Palestinians with moving costs, wergeld (compensation for their troubles), new infrastructure for their new location(s), and with some considerable startup capital and funding, for their first decade or two on their own, in some new location or another.

The Israelis have the upper hand.

The Palestinians cannot win, or even substantively improve their position any longer, where they are now.

The world is not going to force Israel to allow Right of Return or any of that happy horseshit.

Beyond the domains of Islam, the rest of the world does not feel strongly enough about the Palestinians, to risk making war on Israel, on behalf of the Palestinians.

So, if the Israelis have the upper hand, and the Palestinians can't win, and if the world isn't going to bludgeon Israel to death, then what's left?

(1) Perpetual continuation of the present state of affairs, with minor variations, or (2) relocating the Palestinians and giving them a fresh start elsewhere, out of harm's way.

(1) is unacceptable to all concerned, in the long run.

(2) seems most probable - consequently, the sooner the world begins down this path, the fewer lives will be lost in future, and the sooner we'll have peace and quiet.

Q.E.D.

 

[Penelope]

We like to blame it on the British, which they did divide the land strange, but perhaps they did it that way so the people would intermingle and grow together.

Also the british planned it so Jews would slowly come to Palestine, as evident by the White Paper of 1939 - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Most of the Jews who came , came illegally, and the rapid influx , one can't blame the Palestinians for revolting. (they even had to house them temp. on Cyprus)

So, no I do not think the Pals need to leave their country.

 

[montelatici]

The Palestinians know time is on their side. A minority, however strong, will eventually lose out. (Non-Jews currently outnumber the Jews among the population the Jews control and the demographics are ). The question is how they will lose. It can be an Algerian solution, a Rhodesian solution a South African solution etc. It's really up to the Jews.

 

[Kondor3]

We like to blame it on the British, which they did divide the land strange, but perhaps they did it that way so the people would intermingle and grow together.

Also the british planned it so Jews would slowly come to Palestine, but the Zionist as evident by the White Paper of 1939 - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Most of the Jews who came , came illegally, and the rapid influx , one can't blame the Palestinians for revolting. (they even had to house them temp. on Cyprus)

So, no I do not think the Pals need to leave their country.

Blame does not matter.

To a very large extent, the past does not matter.

What does matter is the here-and-now.

And moving forward.

In this conflict, there was a winner (Israel), a loser (Palestinians), and it is clear that the two cannot live peacefully side by side.

That leaves the removal or one or the other.

You cannot remove the strong.

That leaves removing the weak.

I"m sure that sucks, from the Loser's perspective, but life (and history) oftentimes isn't fair.

Time to move beyond 'fair' and time to move beyond 'blame', in order to make things better for the Losers, in a manner acceptable to the Winners.

 

[montelatici]

We like to blame it on the British, which they did divide the land strange, but perhaps they did it that way so the people would intermingle and grow together.

Also the british planned it so Jews would slowly come to Palestine, but the Zionist as evident by the White Paper of 1939 - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Most of the Jews who came , came illegally, and the rapid influx , one can't blame the Palestinians for revolting. (they even had to house them temp. on Cyprus)

So, no I do not think the Pals need to leave their country.

Blame does not matter.

To a very large extent, the past does not matter.

What does matter is the here-and-now.

And moving forward.

In this conflict, there was a winner (Israel), a loser (Palestinians), and it is clear that the two cannot live peacefully side by side.

That leaves the removal or one or the other.

You cannot remove the strong.

That leaves removing the weak.

I"m sure that sucks, from the Loser's perspective, but life (and history) oftentimes isn't fair.

Time to move beyond 'fair' and time to move beyond 'blame', in order to make things better for the Losers, in a manner acceptable to the Winners.

The whites in South Africa, with their nukes and far superior firepower, could not prevent "losing".

 

[Penelope]

Then ok lets deal. We will take the Palestinians and the Zionist and Jews living in the US move to Israel , to make room for the Pals here , and the Israel lobby in the US is abolished (no reason for them to be here since there are no Jews living here), and so is any aid going to Israel , as now we need to use it to help the Palestinians get homes and education.

Sound good?

 

[Kondor3]

Then ok lets deal. We will take the Palestinians and the Zionist and Jews living in the US move to Israel , to make room for the Pals here , and the Israel lobby in the US is abolished (no reason for them to be here since there are no Jews living here), and so is any aid going to Israel , as now we need to use it to help the Palestinians get homes and education.

Sound good?

Nope.

Move the Palestinians to Jordan and/or Lebanon and/or Egypt and/or some other place(s) in that region or in coastal Africa, once the UN negotiates all those arrangements.

No need (or desire) to do any such thing on our own shores.

The Jews (Israelis) are the winners.

Losers do not dictate terms.

 

[ChrisL]

No they do not. If you think they want peace, you are just fooling yourself. It is quite obvious to anyone with EYES and EARS and a BRAIN that they are not looking for "peace." It's NOT in their vocabulary.

Do you support ethnic cleansing?

Look how you try to use this word as if it's a weapon. Your liberal tactics are completely transparent. Lol! It's like "have you stopped beating your wife?"

FAIL bucket.

Try something else.

Do you support ethnic cleansing? It's a straightforward question.

You know what? Since it is the stated goal of the Hamas Charter to commit genocide, and you seem to support the people who elected MURDERERS who clearly want to kill Jews, then it is YOU who supports genocide.

I don't support Hamas. Nice try though.

But still no answer to my question

You sure could have fooled me. You have been defending their atrocious actions this whole time, while trying to make Israel look like they're the bad guys. Well, I think people with normally functioning brains can see WHO the real problem in this situation is, and it's certainly not the Israelis.

I already spelled out to you several times that, YES, I support Israel driving the troublemakers back into Egypt. Let them become THEIR problem. I couldn't THINK of a better gift for them!!

 

[ChrisL]

This is akin to a Native American knocking on your door, telling you that your house sits on property that his family once owned back in the 1800s, and that you must leave now or he is going to shoot your children every time they go outside to play.

 

[Penelope]

Then ok lets deal. We will take the Palestinians and the Zionist and Jews living in the US move to Israel , to make room for the Pals here , and the Israel lobby in the US is abolished (no reason for them to be here since there are no Jews living here), and so is any aid going to Israel , as now we need to use it to help the Palestinians get homes and education.

Sound good?

Nope.

Move the Palestinians to Jordan and/or Lebanon and/or Egypt and/or some other place(s) in that region or in coastal Africa, once the UN negotiates all those arrangements.

No need (or desire) to do any such thing on our own shores.

The Jews (Israelis) are the winners.

Losers do not dictate terms.

No don't think so, its a give and take. No deal with me then. You live in the US as I do, but your unwilling to relocate the Pals here.

You can't speak for another nation , only as a citizen of the US and what you'd accept.

 

[Phoenall]

So...if you consider this ethnic cleansing, you are effectively accusing Israel of ethnically cleansing Gaza...

The problem though lies in "intent".

the intent was to remove all the Jews ..Ethnic cleansing

This is SO obvious. I cannot believe that people are arguing that Israel is the one who wants to wipe out an entire people. THAT is just not the case. It is the other way around. What is wrong with people? Are they really SO blind?

If you want to remove an entire ethnic group from a land they have occupied for generations - then that is ethnic cleansing and that is what you claim to support.

Israel gave up the Gaza strip. I'm saying they should take it back. Why shouldn't they?

Palestine, including Gaza, was inhabited by Muslims and Christians before the Jews invaded from Europe. They gave back nothing.

What Jews invaded Palestine then monti, or are you talking about the legal land owners coming and evicting the squatters from their land. At no time was any part of Palestine bequeathed to the arab muslims by its legal owners, so were was this fictional land ?

 

[ChrisL]

the intent was to remove all the Jews ..Ethnic cleansing

This is SO obvious. I cannot believe that people are arguing that Israel is the one who wants to wipe out an entire people. THAT is just not the case. It is the other way around. What is wrong with people? Are they really SO blind?

If you want to remove an entire ethnic group from a land they have occupied for generations - then that is ethnic cleansing and that is what you claim to support.

Israel gave up the Gaza strip. I'm saying they should take it back. Why shouldn't they?

Palestine, including Gaza, was inhabited by Muslims and Christians before the Jews invaded from Europe. They gave back nothing.

What Jews invaded Palestine then monti, or are you talking about the legal land owners coming and evicting the squatters from their land. At no time was any part of Palestine bequeathed to the arab muslims by its legal owners, so were was this fictional land ?

Right, I don't have a deed or any proof, but this is "my" land. What a crock! Like I said above, it's akin to a Native American demanding you give up your home because that was his families lands generations ago.

These people are unrealistic and ridiculous expectations, and I wonder what they think the region would be like then? Do they actually think these people are going to be "peaceful" suddenly? Good grief!