The World is on to Israel...

[Indeependent]

Well, I guess to you, the final solution is the elimination of a billion or so people so that there is no risk that a few million will not be at risk. The white South Africans had the same position. The whites in South Africa still enjoy a decent life, much better than the non-Whites. Why can't that be the result in Palestine? Are "Arabs" so different than the South African non-whites?

I believe I stated a scant few postings back that "I absolutely believe the majority", etc...
The West Bank Jordanians must demonstrate that they have a handle on that small, but intense, segment of their population who are suicidal/homicidal.

How would you react to your neighbor tossing a grenade into your living room because you observe a different religion?Is that so much to ask?
If it is, take your humanism elsewhere.
There is NO Biblical or Talmudic source for Jews being suicidal.

Do you think the Israeli Occupation of their land might be contributing?

And for the 1 millionth time, do you have any respect for the UN or should we ignore EVERYTHING it's ever done, including it's daily Arab Nation bloc damnation of Israel?

Israel received land by the UN.
Israel was attacked a number of times and won.
Yes, I know we killed Jesus and you can't quite get over that, but tough nuggies.

 

[Indeependent]

Neither the Palestinians nor the Israelis are "brokers", honest or otherwise. They are the two antagonistic parties. It is the U.S. that should be the honest broker, but instead they are just supporters of Israel.

I know it frosts the anti Israeli crowd when they hear of America giving any help to Israel. However, they overlook the fact that it is the American taxpayers who pay the most to the UN which has its own relief agency for the "Palestinians" even though there are needier people in this world.

Yet Israelis are "needier" than say Haitians? Israel has been getting the lion's share of US foreign aid for a small population since 1948.

And who was testing US artillery, Tanks and Jets against the Soviet made equivalents for over 40 years so no US citizens would have to place themselves at risk in a direct confrontation with the Soviets?

 

[Indeependent]

This is getting WAY too easy.

 

[montelatici]

I believe I stated a scant few postings back that "I absolutely believe the majority", etc...
The West Bank Jordanians must demonstrate that they have a handle on that small, but intense, segment of their population who are suicidal/homicidal.

How would you react to your neighbor tossing a grenade into your living room because you observe a different religion?Is that so much to ask?
If it is, take your humanism elsewhere.
There is NO Biblical or Talmudic source for Jews being suicidal.

Do you think the Israeli Occupation of their land might be contributing?

And for the 1 millionth time, do you have any respect for the UN or should we ignore EVERYTHING it's ever done, including it's daily Arab Nation bloc damnation of Israel?

Israel received land by the UN.
Israel was attacked a number of times and won.
Yes, I know we killed Jesus and you can't quite get over that, but tough nuggies.

The Pope divided South America between the Spanish and Portuguese but never asked the indigenous people. That's similar to what the UN did with Palestine.

 

[Indeependent]

Do you think the Israeli Occupation of their land might be contributing?

And for the 1 millionth time, do you have any respect for the UN or should we ignore EVERYTHING it's ever done, including it's daily Arab Nation bloc damnation of Israel?

Israel received land by the UN.
Israel was attacked a number of times and won.
Yes, I know we killed Jesus and you can't quite get over that, but tough nuggies.

The Pope divided South America between the Spanish and Portuguese but never asked the indigenous people. That's similar to what the UN did with Palestine.

Straw man...We're not talking about the Pope, we're talking about an International Political body given authority to determine the validity and security of membership and potential membership nations.

Was Israel declared a State or not?

 

[montelatici]

And for the 1 millionth time, do you have any respect for the UN or should we ignore EVERYTHING it's ever done, including it's daily Arab Nation bloc damnation of Israel?

Israel received land by the UN.
Israel was attacked a number of times and won.
Yes, I know we killed Jesus and you can't quite get over that, but tough nuggies.

The Pope divided South America between the Spanish and Portuguese but never asked the indigenous people. That's similar to what the UN did with Palestine.

Straw man...We're not talking about the Pope, we're talking about an International Political body given authority to determine the validity and security of membership and potential membership nations.

Was Israel declared a State or not?

For the Catholic nations, the Pope was the International Political body. And yes, the UN's pronouncements are equal to the Pope's at the time.

And yes, the UN, like the Pope, could disregard the will of the indigenous people. But, was that right?

 

[Indeependent]

The Pope divided South America between the Spanish and Portuguese but never asked the indigenous people. That's similar to what the UN did with Palestine.

Straw man...We're not talking about the Pope, we're talking about an International Political body given authority to determine the validity and security of membership and potential membership nations.

Was Israel declared a State or not?

For the Catholic nations, the Pope was the International Political body. And yes, the UN's pronouncements are equal to the Pope's at the time.

And yes, the UN, like the Pope, could disregard the will of the indigenous people. But, was that right?

Let's look at this from a slightly different perspective...

Are you absolutely certain that every Balkan and Middle Eastern nation at this very moment is comprised of a millennial indigenous population?

How many Christians and Islamists were displaced by the UN?

How many Arab, Christian and Islamic alike were displaced by the UN?

How many of the indigenous populations were made subject to historical enemies even though they protested?
Even though these maneuvers resulted in decades long blood baths?

But of course, everybody simply wants to obsess on the Jews.

 

[pbel]

Straw man...We're not talking about the Pope, we're talking about an International Political body given authority to determine the validity and security of membership and potential membership nations.

Was Israel declared a State or not?

For the Catholic nations, the Pope was the International Political body. And yes, the UN's pronouncements are equal to the Pope's at the time.

And yes, the UN, like the Pope, could disregard the will of the indigenous people. But, was that right?

Let's look at this from a slightly different perspective...

Are you absolutely certain that every Balkan and Middle Eastern nation at this very moment is comprised of a millennial indigenous population?

How many Christians and Islamists were displaced by the UN?

How many Arab, Christian and Islamic alike were displaced by the UN?

How many of the indigenous populations were made subject to historical enemies even though they protested?
Even though these maneuvers resulted in decades long blood baths?

But of course, everybody simply wants to obsess on the Jews.

I I]


wonder why you think that?[/

 

[montelatici]

i But of course, everybody simply wants to obsess on the Jews.

The UN never sanctioned the displacement as they did in Palestine. That's the difference. The fact that that the Jews of Israel control the borders of a large number (in the millions) of non-Jews, makes it different. The Italians of Croatia, Slovenia etc., (who were there before the Slavs arrived) were all offered repatriation to Italy in accordance with the UN. There are no Italians in those countries claiming a return of their land. If the UN had offered big bucks for the non-Jews to leave, maybe there would be no problem today. The Christians could have been given big bucks to go to Lebanon and the Muslims could have been given big bucks to go to Egypt or another Muslim majority country.

 

[Indeependent]

i But of course, everybody simply wants to obsess on the Jews.

The UN never sanctioned the displacement as they did in Palestine. That's the difference. The fact that that the Jews of Israel control the borders of a large number (in the millions) of non-Jews, makes it different. The Italians of Croatia, Slovenia etc., (who were there before the Slavs arrived) were all offered repatriation to Italy in accordance with the UN. There are no Italians in those countries claiming a return of their land. If the UN had offered big bucks for the non-Jews to leave, maybe there would be no problem today. The Christians could have been given big bucks to go to Lebanon and the Muslims could have been given big bucks to go to Egypt or another Muslim majority country.

Of course the UN sanctioned displacement of Arabs from the Western portion of the land and Jews from the Eastern portion of the land.
What planet are you living on?
Do you think the US, Great Britain and France thought the Jews and Islamists could co-exist?
Not for a second.

In terms of paying off Arabs to leave, they were asked to stay but Jordan told them to leave or the Jordanian tanks would roll over them.

Now you're going to tell me that Jordan, Egypt and Syria didn't attack Israel, but that won't surprise me as I see you would love to have Israel vanish into the Mediterranean.

 

[montelatici]

i But of course, everybody simply wants to obsess on the Jews.

The UN never sanctioned the displacement as they did in Palestine. That's the difference. The fact that that the Jews of Israel control the borders of a large number (in the millions) of non-Jews, makes it different. The Italians of Croatia, Slovenia etc., (who were there before the Slavs arrived) were all offered repatriation to Italy in accordance with the UN. There are no Italians in those countries claiming a return of their land. If the UN had offered big bucks for the non-Jews to leave, maybe there would be no problem today. The Christians could have been given big bucks to go to Lebanon and the Muslims could have been given big bucks to go to Egypt or another Muslim majority country.

Of course the UN sanctioned displacement of Arabs from the Western portion of the land and Jews from the Eastern portion of the land.
What planet are you living on?
Do you think the US, Great Britain and France thought the Jews and Islamists could co-exist?
Not for a second.

In terms of paying off Arabs to leave, they were asked to stay but Jordan told them to leave or the Jordanian tanks would roll over them.

Now you're going to tell me that Jordan, Egypt and Syria didn't attack Israel, but that won't surprise me as I see you would love to have Israel vanish into the Mediterranean.

The Europeans were viewed as invading European colonists by the local states. The locals did not have the the vision of the the Holocaust and they probably did not feel that they were the cause of the Holocaust. The Europeans looked like and behaved like European colonists. Even you can understand that.

 

[Indeependent]

i But of course, everybody simply wants to obsess on the Jews.

The UN never sanctioned the displacement as they did in Palestine. That's the difference. The fact that that the Jews of Israel control the borders of a large number (in the millions) of non-Jews, makes it different. The Italians of Croatia, Slovenia etc., (who were there before the Slavs arrived) were all offered repatriation to Italy in accordance with the UN. There are no Italians in those countries claiming a return of their land. If the UN had offered big bucks for the non-Jews to leave, maybe there would be no problem today. The Christians could have been given big bucks to go to Lebanon and the Muslims could have been given big bucks to go to Egypt or another Muslim majority country.

Of course the UN sanctioned displacement of Arabs from the Western portion of the land and Jews from the Eastern portion of the land.
What planet are you living on?
Do you think the US, Great Britain and France thought the Jews and Islamists could co-exist?
Not for a second.

In terms of paying off Arabs to leave, they were asked to stay but Jordan told them to leave or the Jordanian tanks would roll over them.

Now you're going to tell me that Jordan, Egypt and Syria didn't attack Israel, but that won't surprise me as I see you would love to have Israel vanish into the Mediterranean.

The Europeans were viewed as invading European colonists by the local states. The locals did not have the the vision of the the Holocaust and they probably did not feel that they were the cause of the Holocaust. The Europeans looked like and behaved like European colonists. Even you can understand that.

Heck, I don't even think the majority of Germans and Austrians wanted the Holocaust but they were probably terrified of the consequences of speaking out (sounds familiar).

The Jordanians spat at their nomadic "brothers" in 1948 and have continued to do so.
There are, unfortunately, enough mad dogs within their midst to cause problems.
I was hoping the Arab Spring was going to be a turn around against anachronisms and dictatorships.

Until this is proven, Israel has every right to be suspicious and overly cautious.

 

[montelatici]

Any European settlement in non-European territory has to be cautious. Unless the Europeans are able to exterminate the locals, they usually lose. Rhodesia, South Africa, Algeria, etc.

 

[Phoenall]

I would think you could find other sources besides Wikipedia. Regardless, there are several countries in the EU and only one U.S. By the way, no comments about skin and bones starving people? Here I will show this site again, and you can tell us if the sight of theese people don't wrench your heart. These are the people who need their own relief agencies, not the Palestinians who look like they never skipped a meal in their life.



1. There are 28 states in the EU.

2. So you believe that the Palestinians are in a wonderful situation and have a great life style. Typical extremist.

Yes and each one is autonomous, making its own laws and paying its own way. They do not pay into a central pot for inclusion in the UN, and each has its own representative there. Some are also members of NATO with all that this entails.

They have one of the highest birth rates in the world, one of the longest life spans as well. They lack for nothing in the material sense as shown by the many large German cars in gaza. Many have better lifestyles than the comparable Americans, and can shop in state of the art Malls. Such a lavish lifestyle that many don't work and can exist on UNRWA handouts like kings.
Take the UNWRA aid away and they would be destitute and forced into dealing with the Israeli's honourably

 

[Phoenall]

1. Yes.

2. Yes

3. Yes, they go where the jobs are.

4. Corruption is rampant everywhere, look up the Greek island that Sharon's son bought.

mont, I congratulate you on having been to Israel, and I'm not speaking sarcastically. Most of the posters who live on this Board have never been there, and it's very apparent in their posts (like someone who spoke of apartheid there, or the map that Kondor posts).

Outside of Europe and the U.S., I have worked/lived in Israel, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Dubai, Syria, South Africa, India, Iraq, Nigeria and many Latin American countries. I also "lived" in Vietnam as an Lt. with the 196th Light Infantry, based at Da Nang.

I have nothing against Israel, I was involved with the supply of urgently needed munition components to an Israeli munitions plant which were certainly used against the Palestinians. Not proud of it but, it was my job. But I like to call a spade a spade so if my observations offend Israeli right or wrongers, that's ok, but they are observations of a true neutral.

Used against as in a pre ordained military strike without provocation, or used to defend Israeli civilians from a pre ordained terrorist attack. A world of difference when you think about it.

I was involved in the manufacture and supply of light gauge amour plating destined for Ahwaz in iran during the iran/Iraq war. We were ecstatic when we heard the full shipment was sunk in the Persian Gulf. And the super gun that was ordered by Iraq and fabricated locally. Looked just like a standard piece of pipe, only with many flanges along its length. Plausible reason was that it would be lagged to stop the contents overheating in the desert heat.

 

[Phoenall]

So, in your opinion the Palestinian Christians and Muslims should be happy about their apparently well fed status?

The Christians are down trodden by the muslims, who have been shown to murder Christians who refuse to convert. They are beaten and abused with many having fled gaza for Israel. The muslims plight is purely self inflicted and a sham, with many LIEs being told along the way. Their claims that they are suffering from malnutrition and anaemia as a result have been debunked as false by genetic testing that shows a defective gene in their make up.

The Palestinians should be thankful that Israel released them from their barbed wire cages in 1967 and not handed them back to their fellow muslims for more starvation and degredation.

 

[Phoenall]

i They should not be terrified of being executed when they speak their mind.

What would they say? "We are so happy that Europeans came to Palestine and threw us out".

You mean the Jews could say we are thankful that saudi arabs came to palestine and mass murdered our people for 1400 years

 

[Phoenall]

i They should not be terrified of being executed when they speak their mind.

What would they say? "We are so happy that Europeans came to Palestine and threw us out".

"We are willing to settle on discrete borders and not attempt to eliminate Israel."
Any West Bank Jordanian who says this guarantees a death sentence upon themselves.

On the other hand, I wish Israel WOULD withdraw from the Jordanian West Bank and then obliterate all signs of life therein after the first act of aggression against Israel.
All that demolition and building would be good for Israel's economy.

Hmmm, you just want non-Jews killed. Nice.

Read it again, only this time take your pallywood glasses of. Israel should leave the west bank and let the Hostiles have it. But the first attack on Israel from the west bank will result in a large scale counter attack from Israel that will see every terrorist lying dead in a pool of blood.

And were do you get your information from that it was Europeans that evicted the muslims, it was the combined arab armies that did that.
Now say that you are unbiased after coming out with a muslims BLOOD LIBEL

 

[Phoenall]

Hmmm, you just want non-Jews killed. Nice.

If they either want to kill Jews or can't control the enemy within...Yes.

And because you know what I state is fact...
All you can do is hide behind your policies that would result in dead Jews.

Why don't you preach your humanistic streak to Syria? or Sudan? Or Libya?
You know, where all Arabs are treated SO NICELY.

Well, I guess to you, the final solution is the elimination of a billion or so people so that there is no risk that a few million will not be at risk. The white South Africans had the same position. The whites in South Africa still enjoy a decent life, much better than the non-Whites. Why can't that be the result in Palestine? Are "Arabs" so different than the South African non-whites?

That's like comparing cheese to moon rock. The arab's are allowed to live as they want In Israel, own property, have government jobs, make government decisions, join the army in fact all the things the Jews can do. Apart that is from compulsory conscription, so hardly a n apartheid state as you are saying. Once again you show nothing but bias against the Jews while saying that you are neutral. White man speak with forked tongue .

 

[Phoenall]

Well, I guess to you, the final solution is the elimination of a billion or so people so that there is no risk that a few million will not be at risk. The white South Africans had the same position. The whites in South Africa still enjoy a decent life, much better than the non-Whites. Why can't that be the result in Palestine? Are "Arabs" so different than the South African non-whites?

I believe I stated a scant few postings back that "I absolutely believe the majority", etc...
The West Bank Jordanians must demonstrate that they have a handle on that small, but intense, segment of their population who are suicidal/homicidal.

How would you react to your neighbor tossing a grenade into your living room because you observe a different religion?Is that so much to ask?
If it is, take your humanism elsewhere.
There is NO Biblical or Talmudic source for Jews being suicidal.

Do you think the Israeli Occupation of their land might be contributing?

Hardly as shown by continual rocket attacks from gaza starting in August 2005 and lasting until early 2008 when Israel was not occupying gaza. There was no blockade or any occupation and still the attacks went on escalating in intensity and frequency. So the Israeli presence is not a contributing factor, just the religious commands from their god to kill the Jews