The wars of Islam belong to the past

[Dajjal]

Muslim75 said " It is forbidden to read the Qur'an and the Hadiths and to have one own's understanding of it."

I say that is denial of reason and critical thinking, which is just as applicable to the Quran as it is to any other book.

My reasoning tells me the Quran has only one meaning and it repeats this many times. The meaning is "obey Muhammad " The rest of the Quran is just padding.

I need no saints to tell me there is any greater meaning in the Quran.

 

[Dajjal]

Here are some of the verses that say obey God and Muhammad . In this translation he is called the apostle, in others it uses the word messenger. But the meaning is clear. Obey Muhammad or face the wrath of God.
The true and only real meaning and purpose of the Quran.


3.32 Say: "Obey God and His Apostle": But if they turn back, God loveth not those who reject Faith.
3.132 And obey God and the Apostle; that ye may obtain mercy.
4.13 Those are limits set by God: those who obey God and His Apostle will be admitted to Gardens with rivers flowing beneath, to abide therein (for ever) and that will be the supreme achievement.
4.14 But those who disobey God and His Apostle and transgress His limits will be admitted to a Fire, to abide therein: And they shall have a humiliating punishment.
4.59 O ye who believe! Obey God, and obey the Apostle, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to God and His Apostle, if ye do believe in God and the Last Day: That is best, and most suitable for final determination.
4.69 All who obey God and the apostle are in the company of those on whom is the Grace of God,- of the prophets (who teach), the sincere (lovers of Truth), the witnesses (who testify), and the Righteous (who do good): Ah! what a beautiful fellowship!
5.92 Obey God, and obey the Apostle, and beware (of evil): if ye do turn back, know ye that it is Our Apostle's duty to proclaim (the message) in the clearest manner.
8.1 They ask thee concerning (things taken as) spoils of war. Say: "(such) spoils are at the disposal of God and the Apostle: So fear God, and keep straight the relations between yourselves: Obey God and His Apostle, if ye do believe."
8.20 O ye who believe! Obey God and His Apostle, and turn not away from him when ye hear (him speak).
8.46 And obey God and His Apostle; and fall into no disputes, lest ye lose heart and your power depart; and be patient and persevering: For God is with those who patiently persevere:
9.71 The Believers, men and women, are protectors one of another: they enjoin what is just, and forbid what is evil: they observe regular prayers, practise regular charity, and obey God and His Apostle. On them will God pour His mercy for God is Exalted in power, Wise.
24.52 It is such as obey God and His Apostle, and fear God and do right, that will win (in the end),
24.54 Say: "Obey God, and obey the Apostle: but if ye turn away, he is only responsible for the duty placed on him and ye for that placed on you. If ye obey him, ye shall be on right guidance. The Apostle's duty is only to preach the clear (Message)
33.33 And stay quietly in your houses, and make not a dazzling display, like that of the former Times of Ignorance; and establish regular Prayer, and give regular Charity; and obey God and His Apostle. And God only wishes to remove all abomination from you, ye members of the Family, and to make you pure and spotless.

47.33 O ye who believe! Obey God, and obey the apostle, and make not vain your deeds!
49.14 The desert Arabs say, "We believe." Say, "Ye have no faith; but ye (only)say, 'We have submitted our wills to God,' For not yet has Faith entered your hearts. But if ye obey God and His Apostle, He will not belittle aught of your deeds: for God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."
58.13 Is it that ye are afraid of spending sums in charity before your private consultation (with him)? If, then, ye do not so, and God forgives you, then (at least) establish regular prayer; practise regular charity; and obey God and His Apostle. And God is well-acquainted with all that ye do.
64.12 So obey God, and obey His Apostle: but if ye turn back, the duty of Our Apostle is but to proclaim (the Message) clearly and openly.
72.23 "Unless I proclaim what I receive from God and His Messages: for any that disobey God and His Apostle,- for them is Hell: they shall dwell therein for ever."

 

[AVG-JOE]

We need to prosecute violence relentlessly, regardless of religion and regardless of history.

That's a noble ideal. It's not just the United States. The Governments in the Muslim and Arab countries are working very hard to cut down on extremism and extremists, and the law in these countries hold accountable those who tend toward, promulgate or orchestrate Islamic radicalism. It's a fellony in those countries, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Turkey, the Arab Petro-monarchies, North and West Africa, Nigeria, and even Syria where Mr Assad is presently slaughtering his own people.

So apprehend and realise the exact nature of the war America is set upon.

Baby steps to the stars. The history of The United States is as realistically violent and exploitative as the document that founds it is altruistic.

In the grand scheme of things the American Civil War didn't actually end until the 1960's and the clean-up continues. As more and more of the disenfranchised claim a piece of the American Pie by having their lawyers point out the word "all" in The United States Constitution.

Baby Steps to the stars ​

Islam is a tool. In the hands of peaceful men it is a peaceful tool. In the hands of violent men it is destructive.

Islam is a religion. A religion is a means to re-building the relationship between a human being and his Creator. Since there is only none Creator, only one religion is ultimately true. As such all other religions are false and blameworthy.

Islam re-builds the relationship between a human being and his Creator. The relationship with his Lord that the human being lost when he came to this world, Islam re-builds it. We belong to the Lord, and to Him we return. We return to the Lord, and re-build our relationship with Him, in this life; not only when death comes. Christianity, or any other religion for that matter does not fulfill that purpose.

Which is all well and good ass-u-me-ing God is and ass-u-me-ing that The God of Abraham, as described in The Torah, The New Testament and The Koran is THE God and - now here is the bloody ******* kicker - ass-u-me-ing that EVERY person on earth believes that Abraham's God is the real deal and all are WILLING to adhere to the teaching of one of the three competing stories that presume to show a pathway to this particular God.

To me Islam is bullshit. As is Christianity and the stories of Zeus and His bunch. Not that the stories within aren't worthwhile literature, but, in my humble opinion, the stories of the supernatural within the ancient stories, especially everything dealing with origins, death and destiny are somewhere between naive guess and dramatic bullshit.

Now, if you want to bet both the current life that you know of and the eternal life of your speculative imagination on one or more of the ancient stories that's your business... The point being, ALL of us deserve that same respect.

​

 

[AVG-JOE]

The first generation to understand the right of every person to be wrong with regards to their beliefs about the unprovable questions of origins and afterlife gets to watch their grandchildren begin to explore the stars.

​

 

[irosie91]

Muslim75 said " It is forbidden to read the Qur'an and the Hadiths and to have one own's understanding of it."

I say that is denial of reason and critical thinking, which is just as applicable to the Quran as it is to any other book.

My reasoning tells me the Quran has only one meaning and it repeats this many times. The meaning is "obey Muhammad " The rest of the Quran is just padding.

I need no saints to tell me there is any greater meaning in the Quran.

I have known many many muslims well and had casual encounters with many many more. Some are eager to
discuss their religion-----thus I have heard from scores----
that the Koran is completely straightforward and does not
require "interpretation' as does the bible------BUT it contains
all of the "TRUTH" of the universe. I read the book at about age 20 when I was very clear minded and opened minded and
very receptive to any "truth" presented to me------calculus
was easy, physics was easy-------organic chemistry was tricky
----but actually easy. Muslims whom I have known by the score----insist that Christianity is an evil joke-------and Jews---
are simply evil people (I got that information about Christianity when muslims knew me to be a jew and information about
jews from muslims who took me for a Christian) I also visited
a mosque and found out that no matter how outrageous the
"sermon" -----no one objects and even doing so after the filth
was delivered outside of the mosque is TABOO. ----furthermore---no jokes EVAH!!!!!! ----no jokes and no discussion----jews--
in particular are mocked for propensity to DEBATE-----debate
about scriptural writings PROVES that JOOOOS DON'T REALLY RESPECT THEIR RELIGION. Christians are mocked for the
"turn the cheek thing"---which muslims see as an obvious proof
or cowardice and lack of actual belief. Believing people
kill those who question the absolute TRUTH of the Koran.

now you know

 

[AVG-JOE]

I speak from the traditional knowledge in Islam.

There have been 124 000 prophets, peace be upon them all. The first was Adam (peace be upon him), the last was Muhammad (peace be upon him and his family). Muhammad is the Seal of the prophets, the last of them and the best of them. Muhammad was born in 570 and died in 632.

Because Muhammad was the last prophet, the Seal of the prophets, God supported him with saints. These saints of Islam came at each century, from the 7th century (after Muhammad and his Companions) to today in the 21st century. There are 124 000 saints of Islam. These saints are in contact with God and with His prophet Muhammad. Muslims are forbidden to take up the religion on their own, they must seek these saints and take the religion from them. These saints are the ones who know the meanings of the Qur'an and the Hadiths (the sayings of Muhammad). It is forbidden to read the Qur'an and the Hadiths and to have one own's understanding of it. People are under the obligation to refer to the saints of Islam for the interpretation of the Qur'an and the Hadiths.

In the desert Hasan Basri (7th-8th century) prayed, and the water rose in the well.
Hasan of Basra - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Malik Deenar (8th century) would never sleep at night out of love for God.
Malik Deenar - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Ibrahim Adham (8th century) was a king. He awoke one day and found over his transparent roof a man trying to find his lost camel. That man told him he had more chance to find his camel, than for him to find God in the midst of this luxurious lifestyle.
Ibrahim ibn Adham - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Abu Yazid Al Bistami (9th century) took a saintly friend of his to a place in his home, opened a door, an ocean appeared in front of them, and he invited his friend to enter the sea with him.
Bayazid Bastami - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Abu Hanifa (9th century) visited the tomb of Muhammad. He greeted Muhammad, and a voice came out of the tomb: "peace to you, O Imam of the Muslims."
Ab an fa - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Sahl At Tustari (9th century) would pray all night until dawn without feeling any need to sleep.
Sahl al-Tustari - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Abu Hamid Al Ghazali (11th century) is nicknamed the proof of Islam.
Al-Ghazali - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

To show a person that one must train himself, trained disciples of Abdul Qadir Jilani (12th century) ate chickens while bones would vanish, so that they ate all the chickens, with the bones.
Abdul-Qadir Gilani - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Muhyiddin Ibn Arabi (12th century) was an Arab Muslim from Spain (Andalusia). Today, he is a recognized figure in the West.
Ibn Arabi - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Jalal Al Din Rumi (13th century) wrote the Masnavi and is probably to greatest mystic poet of all times.
Rumi - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Masnavi - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Mulay Al Arabi Al Darqawi (18th century) is one of the famous saints of North African Morocco.
Muhammad al-Arabi al-Darqawi - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Khalid Al Baghdadi (18th-19th century) would enter homes, and soon enough prosperity would take place in every home he entered.
Kh lid-i Baghd d - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

If The God of Abraham, as defined in The Torah, The New Testament and The Koran, decided that the job of guiding humanity ended with Muhammad and the publication of The Koran, the 1700 years of history since then has proven that He is either a cruel Father, He is impotent, or He is a fool.

The last word on God indeed.

 

[irosie91]

I speak from the traditional knowledge in Islam.

There have been 124 000 prophets, peace be upon them all. The first was Adam (peace be upon him), the last was Muhammad (peace be upon him and his family). Muhammad is the Seal of the prophets, the last of them and the best of them. Muhammad was born in 570 and died in 632.

Because Muhammad was the last prophet, the Seal of the prophets, God supported him with saints. These saints of Islam came at each century, from the 7th century (after Muhammad and his Companions) to today in the 21st century. There are 124 000 saints of Islam. These saints are in contact with God and with His prophet Muhammad. Muslims are forbidden to take up the religion on their own, they must seek these saints and take the religion from them. These saints are the ones who know the meanings of the Qur'an and the Hadiths (the sayings of Muhammad). It is forbidden to read the Qur'an and the Hadiths and to have one own's understanding of it. People are under the obligation to refer to the saints of Islam for the interpretation of the Qur'an and the Hadiths.

In the desert Hasan Basri (7th-8th century) prayed, and the water rose in the well.
Hasan of Basra - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Malik Deenar (8th century) would never sleep at night out of love for God.
Malik Deenar - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Ibrahim Adham (8th century) was a king. He awoke one day and found over his transparent roof a man trying to find his lost camel. That man told him he had more chance to find his camel, than for him to find God in the midst of this luxurious lifestyle.
Ibrahim ibn Adham - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Abu Yazid Al Bistami (9th century) took a saintly friend of his to a place in his home, opened a door, an ocean appeared in front of them, and he invited his friend to enter the sea with him.
Bayazid Bastami - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Abu Hanifa (9th century) visited the tomb of Muhammad. He greeted Muhammad, and a voice came out of the tomb: "peace to you, O Imam of the Muslims."
Ab an fa - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Sahl At Tustari (9th century) would pray all night until dawn without feeling any need to sleep.
Sahl al-Tustari - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Abu Hamid Al Ghazali (11th century) is nicknamed the proof of Islam.
Al-Ghazali - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

To show a person that one must train himself, trained disciples of Abdul Qadir Jilani (12th century) ate chickens while bones would vanish, so that they ate all the chickens, with the bones.
Abdul-Qadir Gilani - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Muhyiddin Ibn Arabi (12th century) was an Arab Muslim from Spain (Andalusia). Today, he is a recognized figure in the West.
Ibn Arabi - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Jalal Al Din Rumi (13th century) wrote the Masnavi and is probably to greatest mystic poet of all times.
Rumi - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Masnavi - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Mulay Al Arabi Al Darqawi (18th century) is one of the famous saints of North African Morocco.
Muhammad al-Arabi al-Darqawi - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Khalid Al Baghdadi (18th-19th century) would enter homes, and soon enough prosperity would take place in every home he entered.
Kh lid-i Baghd d - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

If The God of Abraham, as defined in The Torah, The New Testament and The Koran, decided that the job of guiding humanity ended with Muhammad and the publication of The Koran, the 1700 years of history since then has proven that He is either a cruel Father, He is impotent, or He is a fool.

The last word on God indeed.

Leave G-d out of it------

 

[September]

If Islam feels Natural to you and strengthens your connection to God... embrace it. If Christianity does that for you, and you enjoy it, then walk the Christian path. If Paganism brings you closer to God, and its culture resonates with you, embrace Paganism.

Or learn from them all.

And if an atheistic Way is what feels most Natural to you, forsake these divine and infernal ideas of gods and demons and whatever else, and believe what you Will.

But... it is a foolish endeavor to to sit around complaining about other religions. Do not dwell on your own negative thoughts about religion, rather, learn to appreciate the strengths within the many religions!

Embrace what you Will and move on.


​

 

[Avatar4321]

Still no explanation how someone who died over a millenium ago somehow commanded Muslims to stop going to war in the last 100 years

 

[Avatar4321]

The first generation to understand the right of every person to be wrong with regards to their beliefs about the unprovable questions of origins and afterlife gets to watch their grandchildren begin to explore the stars.

​

we did that a while ago, which no one has an issue with you being wrong. We just wish you werent

 

[Avatar4321]

I speak from the traditional knowledge in Islam.

There have been 124 000 prophets, peace be upon them all. The first was Adam (peace be upon him), the last was Muhammad (peace be upon him and his family). Muhammad is the Seal of the prophets, the last of them and the best of them. Muhammad was born in 570 and died in 632.

Because Muhammad was the last prophet, the Seal of the prophets, God supported him with saints. These saints of Islam came at each century, from the 7th century (after Muhammad and his Companions) to today in the 21st century. There are 124 000 saints of Islam. These saints are in contact with God and with His prophet Muhammad. Muslims are forbidden to take up the religion on their own, they must seek these saints and take the religion from them. These saints are the ones who know the meanings of the Qur'an and the Hadiths (the sayings of Muhammad). It is forbidden to read the Qur'an and the Hadiths and to have one own's understanding of it. People are under the obligation to refer to the saints of Islam for the interpretation of the Qur'an and the Hadiths.

In the desert Hasan Basri (7th-8th century) prayed, and the water rose in the well.
Hasan of Basra - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Malik Deenar (8th century) would never sleep at night out of love for God.
Malik Deenar - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Ibrahim Adham (8th century) was a king. He awoke one day and found over his transparent roof a man trying to find his lost camel. That man told him he had more chance to find his camel, than for him to find God in the midst of this luxurious lifestyle.
Ibrahim ibn Adham - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Abu Yazid Al Bistami (9th century) took a saintly friend of his to a place in his home, opened a door, an ocean appeared in front of them, and he invited his friend to enter the sea with him.
Bayazid Bastami - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Abu Hanifa (9th century) visited the tomb of Muhammad. He greeted Muhammad, and a voice came out of the tomb: "peace to you, O Imam of the Muslims."
Ab an fa - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Sahl At Tustari (9th century) would pray all night until dawn without feeling any need to sleep.
Sahl al-Tustari - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Abu Hamid Al Ghazali (11th century) is nicknamed the proof of Islam.
Al-Ghazali - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

To show a person that one must train himself, trained disciples of Abdul Qadir Jilani (12th century) ate chickens while bones would vanish, so that they ate all the chickens, with the bones.
Abdul-Qadir Gilani - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Muhyiddin Ibn Arabi (12th century) was an Arab Muslim from Spain (Andalusia). Today, he is a recognized figure in the West.
Ibn Arabi - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Jalal Al Din Rumi (13th century) wrote the Masnavi and is probably to greatest mystic poet of all times.
Rumi - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Masnavi - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Mulay Al Arabi Al Darqawi (18th century) is one of the famous saints of North African Morocco.
Muhammad al-Arabi al-Darqawi - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Khalid Al Baghdadi (18th-19th century) would enter homes, and soon enough prosperity would take place in every home he entered.
Kh lid-i Baghd d - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

If The God of Abraham, as defined in The Torah, The New Testament and The Koran, decided that the job of guiding humanity ended with Muhammad and the publication of The Koran, the 1700 years of history since then has proven that He is either a cruel Father, He is impotent, or He is a fool.

The last word on God indeed.

God still speaks to man and calls His servants to teach the people

 

[AVG-JOE]

As one who feels called by 'God' (for lack of a better term) to preach the truth as I see it concerning the ancient stories, I sure as hell can't argue with that!

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Islam is a tool. In the hands of peaceful men it is a peaceful tool. In the hands of violent men it is destructive.

Time to Man up and own it, Monkeys. Going forward, history is all on us.

The difference being that he peaceful men wield it by not using the owners manual nor starting up the motor, while the violent ones rev it up to full throttle.

Heck, a chainsaw is pretty damn peaceful when it's sitting in the box unassembled. Not so much when it is tearing through flesh.

 

[AVG-JOE]

A chainsaw is noisy as hell when it's being productive.

"The chainsaw ROARED to life and began clearing the way for the medicine that would save little Johnny."

Was peace created from the racket?

Johnny's family sure thinks so.


The trees and two fingers on Ralph's right paw on the other hand, found the day to be fairly violent.

Perspective counts. ​

 

[AVG-JOE]

The last word on God indeed.

Leave G-d out of it------

If God is, that would be impossible.

If God isn't, god is just another word that conveys a concept from Monkey to Monkey to Monkey and it does so forward through Time.

And The Word was God. ​

 

[AVG-JOE]

Islam is a tool. In the hands of peaceful men it is a peaceful tool. In the hands of violent men it is destructive.

Time to Man up and own it, Monkeys. Going forward, history is all on us.

There is good news though, Kids...

Once we prove ourselves Man enough to own our obviously Godless Monkey history, the future becomes all on us too.

Baby steps to the stars ​

​

 

[Muslim75]

Muhammad and the Muslims would be largely outnumbered during the battles they fought (about 20). If not outnumbered, it was the odds that were against them, the situation the context. Yet they won all their battles, except the second one, Uhud. And even in the battle of Uhud, the Muslims were almost about to annihilate the enemy, but they were distracted in the end with the booty in sight (as part of a holy teaching for mankind); that is how Khalid was able to turn the battle around to the advantage of the enemy. A few years later, Khalid converted to Islam and took part in battles alongside the Muslims. He achieved great wonders and Muhammad called him the sword of God.

The wars of Islam were a heavenly affair, and the goal was to raise the name of God Almighty throughout the land. Muhammad wiped out of the earth all idol worship with the sword.

That was a generation of the past. Today, it is absolutely forbidden to fight in the name of Islam.

 

[007]

The battles that Muhammad fought were a matter of miracles. In the very first battle, the battle of Badr, like I said before, 313 Muslims were face to face with 1000 unbelievers. Muhammad (peace be upon him and his family won all his battles (less than 20) except the second one, and that defeat was also a heavenly matter. In one battle, he was left alone with his uncle Al Abbas. The other Companions were divinely inspired to flee. So Muhammad stayed on his mule, his uncle holding its bridle, and he was reciting:

I am the Prophet, no lies
I am the son of Abd Al Muttalib.

Eventually the Companions came back, and the Muslims were victorious.

You mean the very same muhammad that married a six year old and raped her when she was nine... that muhammad?

Why do you worship a pedophile?

 

[Dajjal]

That was a generation of the past. Today, it is absolutely forbidden to fight in the name of Islam.

The Quran says repeatedly that you must fight, are you now saying that the word of God has been changed?