The unspoken moral dilemma of socialists

[AntonToo]

No, it's not fascism...it's chaos and lawlessness.

Outrageously false. Do you know anything about political science?

Fasces is a derivative of "Collectivism and a lack of individualism"

Mussolini defines it as a state that works for corporations.

Therefore fascism = statism, since all states work for corporations.

THERE IS NO STATE in your little fantasy, so wtf does Mussolini talking about state have to do with anything?

 

[Onyx]

No, it's not fascism...it's chaos and lawlessness.

Sorry, I misread this post earlier.

My ideology does not = chaos. That is just propaganda.

I believe in rules. I believe in order. I believe in organization. I believe in peace..

Most of all, I believe in killing violent thugs. That is including the ones in power within the framework of the state.

 

[owebo]

Liberty does not equal freedom....

You seem to have zero clue what that means...

I agree liberty does not = freedom.

You actually said this earlier, so I am just repeating myself now.

Freedom is having control over ones own personhood. Liberty is permission as given by the state.

Absolute liberty is an oxymoron, which is where your confusion is probably stemming from. Considering its positive connotations, I am happy to stick with that oxymoron.

Thank god.....we finally got somewhere

Liberty does not equal freedom....

Yes you seem to like Liberty more than freedom....but you hate the construct of Liberty, which is the only way Liberty can survive....

So, pardon us if we struggle with your political psychosis.....

 

[jc456]

There is no such thing as ultimate Liberty.....

Sure there is.

No state means no legalized permission.

That is absolute liberty.

Mass chaos! no other way

 

[Onyx]

So you believe in no money? Cause it sure seems like it

Not exactly.

I believe in the existence of capital. Preferably through well defined market standards on plentiful resources and commodities.

 

[Onyx]

Thank god.....we finally got somewhere

Liberty does not equal freedom....

No shit.

I said this awhile ago. Clearly you were not paying attention.

Yes you seem to like Liberty more than freedom....but you hate the construct of Liberty, which is the only way Liberty can survive....

So, pardon us if we struggle with your political psychosis.....

You have not been making much sense this whole conversation.

Please clarify.

 

[Onyx]

Mass chaos! no other way

Baseless conjecture.

Also a self-defeating argument. Statism is chaos, or are you clueless about the past 5000 years of world history?

Perhaps you should begin by explaining why the lack of a state means inherent chaos, instead of rehashing government propaganda.

 

[jc456]

So you believe in no money? Cause it sure seems like it

Not exactly.

I believe in the existence of capital. Preferably through well defined market standards on plentiful resources and commodities.

Without laws no Way to govern it. And there goes your governance so you can't have money. And back to coomb by Ya

 

[Onyx]

THERE IS NO STATE in your little fantasy, so wtf does Mussolini talking about state have to do with anything?

I misread your post. Forgive me, I was overwhelmed so I was skimming and replying.

 

[Onyx]

Without lead no Way to govern it. And there goes your governance so you can't have money.

You guys have poor comprehension skills.

I said, probably about half a dozen times now, that I have no problems with voluntary and mutual governance.

Also, for your information, I believe in leadership. I do not believe in rulership. Can you guess the difference between a leader and a ruler?

 

[owebo]

Thank god.....we finally got somewhere

Liberty does not equal freedom....

No shit.

I said this awhile ago. Clearly you were not paying attention.

Yes you seem to like Liberty more than freedom....but you hate the construct of Liberty, which is the only way Liberty can survive....

So, pardon us if we struggle with your political psychosis.....

You have not been making much sense this whole conversation.

Please clarify.

No, typical of your propaganda based approach, you tried to conflate Liberty with freedom because you realized you lost the debate,.,,,then you circled around to the point I last made hoping no one would notice....

 

[owebo]

Without lead no Way to govern it. And there goes your governance so you can't have money.

You guys have poor comprehension skills.

I said, probably about half a dozen times now, that I have no problems with voluntary and mutual governance.

Also, for your information, I believe in leadership. I do not believe in rulership. Can you guess the difference between a leader and a ruler?

your ruler is an inch short of a foot...

 

[Onyx]

No, typical of your propaganda based approach, you tried to conflate Liberty with freedom because you realized you lost the debate,.,,,then you circled around to the point I last made hoping no one would notice....

Then explain why about 40 minutes ago I explicitly stated that I agreed with you on the seperation of freedom and liberty.

Wait, don't answer. It is just going to end up being meandered and misconstrued.

 

[Onyx]

But freedom does not equal Liberty.......

Mostly agreed.

Here it was though.

 

[jc456]

Mass chaos! no other way

Baseless conjecture.

Also a self-defeating argument. Statism is chaos, or are you clueless about the past 5000 years of world history?

Perhaps you should begin by explaining why the lack of a state means inherent chaos, instead of rehashing government propaganda.

It goes to money, work and property family school food , you know everything. Chaos cause I'll come take yours or you mine and I'll have to take action and we have war. Chaos

 

[owebo]

No, typical of your propaganda based approach, you tried to conflate Liberty with freedom because you realized you lost the debate,.,,,then you circled around to the point I last made hoping no one would notice....

Then explain why about 40 minutes ago I explicitly stated that I agreed with you on the seperation of freedom and liberty.

Wait, don't answer. It is just going to end up being meandered and misconstrued.

It's not separation....

Liberty plain and fucking simply does not equal freedom........

 

[owebo]

But freedom does not equal Liberty.......

Mostly agreed.

Here it was though.

Mostly....

 

[jc456]

Without lead no Way to govern it. And there goes your governance so you can't have money.

You guys have poor comprehension skills.

I said, probably about half a dozen times now, that I have no problems with voluntary and mutual governance.

Also, for your information, I believe in leadership. I do not believe in rulership. Can you guess the difference between a leader and a ruler?

Dude you're turning circles

 

[Onyx]

It goes to money, work and property family school food , you know everything.

So you are under the impression that without the state, no one would have a family, a job, an education, or property?

You really would be that helpless without the US federal government? Lol.

Chaos cause I'll come take yours or you mine and I'll have to take action and we have war. Chaos

Do you acknowledge this dillema exists on a large scale between states?

What do you think WW2 was?

Also the whole point in my ideology is that the good guys will outnumber the thugs, or at least have more advanced military technology and organization on the side of the good guys.

 

[owebo]

It goes to money, work and property family school food , you know everything.

So you are under the impression that without the state, no one would have a family, a job, an education, or property?

You really would be that helpless without the US federal government? Lol.

Chaos cause I'll come take yours or you mine and I'll have to take action and we have war. Chaos

Do you acknowledge this dillema exists on a large scale between states?

What do you think WW2 was?

Also the whole point in my ideology is that the good guys will outnumber the thugs, or at least have more advanced military technology and organization on the side of the good guys.

WWII was Liberty stopping us from speaking German or Japanese.....