The Universe: Eternal or no?

[RodISHI]

Go back and check my posts. Nowhere have I said the Bible is in error because it was written by men. I said the Bible was written by men. Period.

Does that mean you have never said that before?

 

[RodISHI]

Do you know what Buddha is?

Who are you referring to in these words you wrote 'one who does not know what gave them the breath of life'.

I do not know buddha sky.


I am refering to anyone that does not know who gave them that breath of life that they have.

 

[sky dancer]

Does that mean you have never said that before?

Yes.

 

[sky dancer]

I do not know buddha sky.


I am refering to anyone that does not know who gave them that breath of life that they have.

Do you have any interest in finding common ground?

 

[RodISHI]

Yes.

Why would you use the phrase "written by men" other than to ceate an elusion that the Bible/Torah is fallible? If in fact I spoke out of turn to you personally then I do apoligize.

You say you are looking for common ground. If in fact this is the case then answer this simple question do you know who Yahashua is?

 

[sky dancer]

Why would you use the phrase "written by men" other than to ceate an elusion that the Bible/Torah is fallible? If in fact I spoke out of turn to you personally then I do apoligize.

You say you are looking for common ground. If in fact this is the case then answer this simple question do you know who Yahashua is?[/QUOTE

The Bible was written by men. That is the truth. If you imply that I am trying to fight with you over the Bible you are speaking out of turn.

I'm interested in finding common ground. I think you may be more interested in evangelizing than having a respectful discussion with another person deeply committed to a spiritual life.

No, I am not familiar with the term 'Yahashua'. Yeshua, yes. I know that term. Terms are not the experience, are they? Terms are concepts. Words.

 

[RodISHI]

Why would you use the phrase "written by men" other than to ceate an elusion that the Bible/Torah is fallible? If in fact I spoke out of turn to you personally then I do apoligize.

You say you are looking for common ground. If in fact this is the case then answer this simple question do you know who Yahashua is?[/QUOTE

The Bible was written by men. That is the truth. If you imply that I am trying to fight with you over the Bible you are speaking out of turn.

I'm interested in finding common ground. I think you may be more interested in evangelizing than having a respectful discussion with another person deeply committed to a spiritual life.

No, I am not familiar with the term 'Yahashua'. Yeshua, yes. I know that term.

It is not my job to evangelize as you call it. Before we could truly find a true "common ground" on some forum Internet site you would need to find out and know who Jesus/Yahushua truly is.

That is not an attempt to insult you sky, it is just the simple truth.

You can ask questions if you like but you may not like the answers that you may hear from me. I had a very dear Chinese friend who was raised a Budhist. She was sold into slavery at fourteen years old by her family. Her husband an airman was literally her hero. He brought her to America and she and I met through my husband who at the time was also an airman. In the years just prior to her death she called me and asked, "I have friend who tell me I go to hell if I no give money to her church. I know you know truth, you tell me am I go to hell I no give money to her church?"

She and I had a lengthy conversation over the phone that day. At the end she asked me if I would baptise her. I told her I could not but I could make arrangements for her to be Baptised. She said, "I no know when I die. Doctors say they no know either. You fix for me okay?" I said I would not realizing what a task it would be. We lived in a town with 200 people and ten churches. One would think that asking a minister to do this simple task would be a cake walk. In short it was not. yet one minister I asked after getting a run around from another that said he would make the arraingements said, "I would be honored." We set the next Sunday for the event.

I recieved a phone call from a friend over a hundred miles away the following Monday. He was very rough in his tone of voice when he asked, "What did you do?" I assumed one thing because this friend and I had never discussed our faith or our beliefs. Yet we had been friends from the first day we met years previously. He continued on speaking in that voice, "I got a call this morning from a friend I grew up with. He was very upset, he said you brought some heathen into their church." I fired back at my dearest friend,"that's God church whether your friend knows it or not! and Pong is no heathen she is a very dear friend." In the conversations end my dear friend apoligized to me for not knowing those people he had known his "whole life", "were like that."

Now you can consider that evangilizing or you can accept it as something more and we can move forward as you try to find common ground if you like.

 

[sky dancer]

Common ground is where we discover that we are discussing the same topic, but the concepts and words get in the way.

That's a nice story. The moral of the story appears to be that the Buddhist was ok once she was baptized.

You admit you don't know what Buddha is anymore than I know what Yahashua. Common ground implies a reciprocal interest. Is your point that unless I listen to a sermon about Yahashua you have no interest in knowing what Buddha means?

 

[Old Rocks]

Catherine Faber, Phd Biologist

The Word of God

From desert cliff and mountaintop we trace the wide design,
Strike-slip fault and overthrust and syn and anticline...
We gaze upon creation where erosion makes it known,
And count the countless aeons in the banding of the stone.
Odd, long-vanished creatures and their tracks & shells are found;
Where truth has left its sketches on the slate below the ground. [1]
The patient stone can speak, if we but listen when it talks.
Humans wrote the Bible; God wrote the rocks.

There are those who name the stars, who watch the sky by night,
Seeking out the darkest place, to better see the light.
Long ago, when torture broke the remnant of his will,
Galileo recanted, but the Earth is moving still [2]
High above the mountaintops, where only distance bars,
The truth has left its footprints in the dust between the stars.
We may watch and study or may shudder and deny,
Humans wrote the Bible; God wrote the sky.

By stem and root and branch we trace, by feather, fang and fur,
How the living things that are descend from things that were.
The moss, the kelp, the zebrafish, the very mice and flies,
These tiny, humble, wordless things -- how shall they tell us lies?
We are kin to beasts; no other answer can we bring.
The truth has left its fingerprints on every living thing.
Remember, should you have to choose between them in the strife,
Humans wrote the Bible; God wrote life.

And we who listen to the stars, or walk the dusty grade [3]
Or break the very atoms down to see how they are made,
Or study cells, or living things, seek truth with open hand.
The profoundest act of worship is to try to understand.
Deep in flower and in flesh, in star and soil and seed,
The truth has left its living word for anyone to read.
So turn and look where best you think the story is unfurled.
Humans wrote the Bible; God wrote the world.

-- Catherine Faber

 

[sky dancer]

So much for interfaith dialogue.

 

[RodISHI]

Common ground is where we discover that we are discussing the same topic, but the concepts and words get in the way.

That's a nice story. The moral of the story appears to be that the Buddhist was ok once she was baptized.

You admit you don't know what Buddha is anymore than I know what Yahashua. Common ground implies a reciprocal interest. Is your point that unless I listen to a sermon about Yahashua you have no interest in knowing what Buddha means?

Actually there is more to the story than she just got Baptised sky.

Do you think I need to know what Buddha means? Or is it that you do not want to hear what Yahushua means? We could go in a circle all day if you like. Or you can get to the point you wish to make, or ask the questions you have in your mind.

See as in as much as many wish to spread Buddhism, Isalm, etc... others wish to spread Christianity. Some are just lost puppies out in the comos trying to find their way and they snag the first thing that they think gives or may give them peace.

 

[sky dancer]

Actually there is more to the story than she just got Baptised sky.

Do you think I need to know what Buddha means? Or is it that you do not want to hear what Yahushua means? We could go in a circle all day if you like. Or you can get to the point you wish to make, or ask the questions you have in your mind.

See as in as much as many wish to spread Buddhism, Isalm, etc... others wish to spread Christianity. Some are just lost puppies out in the comos trying to find their way and they snag the first thing that they think gives or may give them peace.

Never mind. The point I make is that when you strip away the concepts and words we use in our different traditions there is a common experience. That is the place to find peace on earth. It is a place beyond concepts, it is heart to heart experience.

I have that when I talk to Gunny, and a few others here. Sorry, you and I seem to have missed each other somewhere along the line. So be it.

 

[RodISHI]

Never mind. The point I make is that when you strip away the concepts and words we use there is a common experience.

I find that often when I have good talks with others. Sorry, I seem to not be seeing eye to eye at all with you.

Take care.

You take care also sky.




Walk in the spirit, a journal I started for friends. Needs work but the basics are there.

 

[sky dancer]

You take care also sky.

BTW I looked up the meaning of the word and it is Aramaic for Jesus or the Holy Spirit. Buddha is a Sanskrit term that means 'one who is awake'.

In Tibetan, it is sang gye--which means to clear away and to unfold.

It is a direct, moment to moment experience. When it occurs 24/7 lifetime after lifetime we call this enlightenment.

 

[RodISHI]

BTW I looked up the meaning of the word and it is Aramaic for Jesus. Buddha is a Sanskrit term that means 'one who is awake'.

In Tibetan, it is sang gye--which means to clear away and to unfold.

It is a direct, moment to moment experience. When it occurs 24/7 lifetime after lifetime we call this enlightenment.

There now you have some common ground. The Bible/Torah is much the same in the manner once awakened one needs to understand some of what the words actually mean. I left a link on the last post that tells the more complete version of my dear friends. Not that it covers it all but it hits the highlights. I started the blog last year and have not been back to write anymore since we did not have internet for awhile.

 

[Gunny]

Actually there is more to the story than she just got Baptised sky.

Do you think I need to know what Buddha means? Or is it that you do not want to hear what Yahushua means? We could go in a circle all day if you like. Or you can get to the point you wish to make, or ask the questions you have in your mind.

See as in as much as many wish to spread Buddhism, Isalm, etc... others wish to spread Christianity. Some are just lost puppies out in the comos trying to find their way and they snag the first thing that they think gives or may give them peace.

I find what other people believe to be interesting, and in some cases, if not careful, I actually learn something new. It does not mean you have to accept any or all of what that person believes.

It is hard and even more rare to have this discussion without tripping over our own beliefs and not hearing what we read; rather, intent on responding "why not." It is THE very reason you rarely see me in these discussions.

My point being you are privileged to have an audience that is listening to what you say; which, as I mentioned, is rare where religion is concerned. It is only fair to listen in turn, agree or not.

ANd I don't mean this as a personal attack, so don't take it that way ... it's a serious question: are you insecure enough in your religioous belief that you feel you have to shut out and/or put down others? I'm just trying to understand your POV, and you are, whether or not intentionally, being subtly condescending, IMO.

 

[RodISHI]

I find what other people believe to be interesting, and in some cases, if not careful, I actually learn something new. It does not mean you have to accept any or all of what that person believes.

It is hard and even more rare to have this discussion without tripping over our own beliefs and not hearing what we read; rather, intent on responding "why not." It is THE very reason you rarely see me in these discussions.

My point being you are privileged to have an audience that is listening to what you say; which, as I mentioned, is rare where religion is concerned. It is only fair to listen in turn, agree or not.

ANd I don't mean this as a personal attack, so don't take it that way ... it's a serious question: are you insecure enough in your religioous belief that you feel you have to shut out and/or put down others? I'm just trying to understand your POV, and you are, whether or not intentionally, being subtly condescending, IMO.

No offense taken Gunny. No insecurity that I know of. Never hurts to do a self examination.

 

[sky dancer]

Let us know the results of your self-examination.

 

[RodISHI]

Let us know the results of your self-examination.

That is an ongoing process. Not sure how long it will last. I'll do another study to see if the original study results concur with the lastest study results. Who knows I may be able to write a scientrific results of that study one day. A good English major to help with the study would not hurt.

 

[KittenKoder]

Okay, since I see where this wonderful discussion is about to go I will make one last post to it myself then duck out before it goes too much further.

Sky, while a star itself may not exist anymore, the matter and energy it was made of does still exist, just in another form and place. So the universe itself is eternal, and even if it wasn't there is also the fact of what eternal means. Due to our minds being unable to comprehend past a certain value of time to us it is eternal. It was here long before us and will remain in many forms long after. So from almost all perspectives it is eternal, however it is very fluid, the matter changes frequently, even within our own grasp of time. Energy moves in many directions and shifts into many forms, again even within our tiny grasp of time. So even if there was a true 'beginning' and will be a true 'ending' we cannot perceive this, eternal is abstract not a finite time period.