The Trump peace plan is doomed to fail

[kyzina]

This forum sure is crawling with antisemites.

Crawling with Habara anti-Muslims.

 

[Shusha]

Nope, your failure to breed at replacement numbers isn't the Palestinians fault that they are replacing themselves faster than you can kill them.

Again, you are trying to step away from your claim of "systematic killing" (and bizarrely try to make Jews complicit in their extermination by claiming they don't breed replacement fast enough after a genocide, wow, gross).

There is no equivalence between actual "systematic killing" and events that are not actual "systematic killing". One of measures is the reduction of a population. The Jewish worldwide population was significantly decreased as a result of the actual systematic killing of Jews. The Arab "Palestinians" have NEVER had a significant reduction in their population.

Um, not really seeing the difference. The Zionists might be less efficient mass murderers than the Nazis were, but they are still mass murderers.

But this was exactly my very first response to you:

...Jews are really, really quite terrible at this whole "systematic killing" thing.

So, here's any idea. Maybe Jews are really, really quite terrible or "less efficient" at systematic killing because ... um ... wait for it ... that's not what is happening.

When did it claim that? Hitler's initial goal was to just expel them from the Reich. Killing them only became the plan when no one else would take them.

Are you going to let me get away with that as a justification for expelling the Arabs from Gaza? Seriously. As in, "Israel just wants to expel them from Gaza. Killing them will only become the plan when no one else takes them."

 

[JoeB131]

You support mass murderers every time there is a war, otherwise when your team is involved in it. Say it ain't so and I'll call you a bold faced liar.

Nope. I don't support Netanyahu, who is a mass murderer.

Everyone has a team they support, and if war breaks out as a last resort, then of course you will be hoping that your team wins, and hoping that your ace will be safe in your nation because of your team winning.

Except the Zionist Entity isn't "our team". This is a case where the tale is wagging the dog, where the Zionists yell "Jump" and the US government (regardless of which party is in charge) answers "How high?" If we took the hundreds of billions we invest in playing Hall Monitor in the Middle East and invested it in green energy and public transportation in this country, we'd be far better off.

But for some reason people like you act as if war is never necessary under any circumstances, and if one breaks out then you want to blame the nation that you live safely in because you are anti-war no matter who the blame falls upon.

I do blame our government for getting us into unnecessary and ill-planned wars.

Israel had every right to go to war against the hornets nest that became Hamas who built that hornets nest for one purpose and one purpose only (to wage war with Israel at any cost).

If the Palestinian's would have chosen a different path for GAZA and themselves besides HATE, then Hamas would have never been able to put them into the awful position that they had allowed themselves to be placed in.

HAMAS showed itself to be as bad as Ai-Quida was, yet the Palis went along with the constant shelling and suicide bombings of Israel for year's.

Hold on here, buddy. The Zionists from Europe come to Palestine and steal their land, and it's Palestine's fault? Talk about blaming the victim.

Let's say for the sake of argument that someone used a legal trick to get control of your house through title fraud. They throw you out of your home, trample all your precious family possessions, and just for good measure, shoot the family dog.

Now, if that person "generously" offered to let you live in the unheated garage, I don't think you would feel grateful to them. I would guess you'd be up at night in that garage plotting some kind of revenge.

 

[JoeB131]

Again, you are trying to step away from your claim of "systematic killing" (and bizarrely try to make Jews complicit in their extermination by claiming they don't breed replacement fast enough after a genocide, wow, gross).

There is no equivalence between actual "systematic killing" and events that are not actual "systematic killing". One of measures is the reduction of a population. The Jewish worldwide population was significantly decreased as a result of the actual systematic killing of Jews. The Arab "Palestinians" have NEVER had a significant reduction in their population.

China lost more people in WW2 than the Jews did. Amazingly, they've doubled their population since WWII DESPITE the government's serious efforts to control population growth (not to mention a few famines).

Seems if you are failing to replenish your numbers, that's on you, and you better get busy, the Palestinians are quickly outstripping you.

So, here's any idea. Maybe Jews are really, really quite terrible or "less efficient" at systematic killing because ... um ... wait for it ... that's not what is happening.

Or they are just doing as much as the world will let them get away with.

Are you going to let me get away with that as a justification for expelling the Arabs from Gaza? Seriously. As in, "Israel just wants to expel them from Gaza. Killing them will only become the plan when no one else takes them."

No, there's no justification for anything the Zionists are trying to do, that's the point.

 

[JoeB131]

This forum sure is crawling with antisemites.

I don't know how you can stand it here.

Anti-Semite = Anyone who disagrees with Lisa. On any topic.

 

[beagle9]

Nope. I don't support Netanyahu, who is a mass murderer.



Except the Zionist Entity isn't "our team". This is a case where the tale is wagging the dog, where the Zionists yell "Jump" and the US government (regardless of which party is in charge) answers "How high?" If we took the hundreds of billions we invest in playing Hall Monitor in the Middle East and invested it in green energy and public transportation in this country, we'd be far better off.



I do blame our government for getting us into unnecessary and ill-planned wars.

View attachment 1184474



Hold on here, buddy. The Zionists from Europe come to Palestine and steal their land, and it's Palestine's fault? Talk about blaming the victim.

Let's say for the sake of argument that someone used a legal trick to get control of your house through title fraud. They throw you out of your home, trample all your precious family possessions, and just for good measure, shoot the family dog.

Now, if that person "generously" offered to let you live in the unheated garage, I don't think you would feel grateful to them. I would guess you'd be up at night in that garage plotting some kind of revenge.

Your anecdotal bull chit is just that "BULL CHIT". They are stories constantly being twisted up by you in hopes to push a false narrative that ignores every aspect of the history and the facts involved in the bigger picture. You run that mouth in ways that gives you a false hope that you can convince the majority that black is now white, and the sky is now orange.

I've been watching your back and forth Shusha, and I can tell that you are way out of your comfort zone in trying to push that Democrat narrative or the false narrative on that poster, otherwise you pushing that Israel is or has been the problem all along (WRONG).

This is 2025, and your attempt at using history in hopes to try and brand the new Israeli generation as being these genocidal maniacs, uhhhh should be utterly embarrassing to you, but that's to much to apply to you in self-assesment of at this point.

 

[JoeB131]

Your anecdotal bull chit is just that "BULL CHIT". They are stories constantly being twisted up by you in hopes to push a false narrative that ignores every aspect of the history and the facts involved in the bigger picture. You run that mouth in ways that gives you a false hope that you can convince the majority that black is now white, and the sky is now orange.

So all your ranting, and you can't really address the point.

Israel has ALWAYS been based on a lie. "A land without a people for a people without a land!" There were people on that land. The Zionists stole their land and relegated them to second-class citizenship in their own country.

The rest of the world sees this. Only because of the stranglehold pro-Zionists elements have on our media and culture that Americans don't. (and Americans, after all, are kind of stupid, really.)

I've been watching your back and forth Shusha, and I can tell that you are way out of your comfort zone in trying to push that Democrat narrative or the false narrative on that poster, otherwise you pushing that Israel is or has been the problem all along (WRONG).

I'm perfectly in my comfort zone debating with a paid Zionist shill like Shusha.

This is 2025, and your attempt at using history in hopes to try and brand the new Israeli generation as being these genocidal maniacs, uhhhh should be utterly embarrassing to you, but that's to much to apply to you in self-assesment of at this point.

I agree, this is 2025. Insisting that a colonial state is justified based on a book of bronze age fairy tales is kind of silly.

 

[Shusha]

No, there's no justification for anything the Zionists are trying to do, that's the point.

Yep. I get your point. You absolve Nazi Germany for the extermination of the Jewish people because, well, originally, they only wanted to ethnically cleanse the Jews.

At the very same time, as literally written above, ANYTHING "Zionists" (read: Jews) do is evil.

That's the hypocritical double standard you have against Jews.

 

[Shusha]

Israel has ALWAYS been based on a lie. "A land without a people for a people without a land!" There were people on that land.

There were TWO peoples on that land. TWO distinct ethnic groups. The indigenous Jewish people and the Arabs who migrated there in some combination of conquest, colonialism, and cultural dominance.

I agree, this is 2025. Insisting that a colonial state is justified ...

You are calling for the destruction of how many colonial states? Oh, just the Jewish one. The one which is a return to an indigenous homeland -- an act of decolonization.


And ... circling back to the title of this thread. ANY peace plan is doomed to fail under Arab entitlement and rejection of Jewish indigeneity and connection to their homeland. Without recognition of the Jewish people and their identical human rights of self-determination, its a forever war.

 

[JoeB131]

Yep. I get your point. You absolve Nazi Germany for the extermination of the Jewish people because, well, originally, they only wanted to ethnically cleanse the Jews.

When did I absolve Germany? I've gone toe to toe with Holocaust deniers on this board spreading their bullshit.

The Holocaust was bad. It's not a permanent hall pass for bad behavior.

At the very same time, as literally written above, ANYTHING "Zionists" (read: Jews) do is evil.

That's the hypocritical double standard you have against Jews.

Zionism is its own brand of evil..

There were TWO peoples on that land. TWO distinct ethnic groups. The indigenous Jewish people and the Arabs who migrated there in some combination of conquest, colonialism, and cultural dominance.

Not really. The Jews were largely dispersed by the Romans, who had quite enough of their nonsense. You want to ***** about it, take it up with Emperor Hadrian.

The fact is, Zionism was born in Europe as a European Colonial movement by the Ashkenazim. It was encouraged by the British as an attempt at Colonization by Proxy.

You are calling for the destruction of how many colonial states? Oh, just the Jewish one. The one which is a return to an indigenous homeland -- an act of decolonization.

Quite the contary, I am all for the dissolution of the Colonial Empires that happened after the World Wars.

I am also for the social justice movement in countries like the US to make things right with formerly oppressed ethnic groups.

And ... circling back to the title of this thread. ANY peace plan is doomed to fail under Arab entitlement and rejection of Jewish indigeneity and connection to their homeland. Without recognition of the Jewish people and their identical human rights of self-determination, its a forever war.

I agree. As long as the Zionists insist on an apartheid Colonial state on stolen land, they will have a forever war.

Which begs the question I keep asking Zionist apologists, and never get an answer to.

Why are you so keen to live next to people who want to murder you?

I mean, if I saw my neighbors strapping bombs onto their kids and pointing at my house, I'd move.

 

[Shusha]

Which begs the question I keep asking Zionist apologists, and never get an answer to.

I'll answer it. Its a pretty stupid question, but I'll answer it. Why is it a stupid question? Because it suggests, in a backwards way, that violence is the path to getting whatever it is you want. And I find that an abhorrent belief.

Why are you so keen to live next to people who want to murder you?

Listen. Carefully. Here it is: Because. It. Is. Our. Home.

And no matter how many times you tell us that we are from elsewhere because we were forced (as you just said!) out of our home - it will never stop being our home; our place in the world; the place of our ancestors and our history; the fabric from which our culture was made. You can lie about it. You can whine about it. You can rage. You can call us names and smear us with all the demonizing words. It will still be our home. You can try to exterminate us, you can try to cleanse us, you can try to diminish us. But. it. will. still. be. our. home. Everywhere else in the world is a place of sojourn.

The difference between my ideology and yours is that there is space for another people to have a home in that land in mine.

I mean, if I saw my neighbors strapping bombs onto their kids and pointing at my house, I'd move.

Would you? I ask because the people of Gaza are also living next to someone who you claim are trying to murder them. Why are you not urging them to leave?

 

[beagle9]

I'll answer it. Its a pretty stupid question, but I'll answer it. Why is it a stupid question? Because it suggests, in a backwards way, that violence is the path to getting whatever it is you want. And I find that an abhorrent belief.

Listen. Carefully. Here it is: Because. It. Is. Our. Home.

And no matter how many times you tell us that we are from elsewhere because we were forced (as you just said!) out of our home - it will never stop being our home; our place in the world; the place of our ancestors and our history; the fabric from which our culture was made. You can lie about it. You can whine about it. You can rage. You can call us names and smear us with all the demonizing words. It will still be our home. You can try to exterminate us, you can try to cleanse us, you can try to diminish us. But. it. will. still. be. our. home. Everywhere else in the world is a place of sojourn.

The difference between my ideology and yours is that there is space for another people to have a home in that land in mine.

Would you? I ask because the people of Gaza are also living next to someone who you claim are trying to murder them. Why are you not urging them to leave?

As you see, Joe is a complete hook line and sinker gullible Democrat..... He actually might not be trustworthy if were to be investigated as based upon his constantly defending the indefensible.

 

[JoeB131]

I'll answer it. Its a pretty stupid question, but I'll answer it. Why is it a stupid question? Because it suggests, in a backwards way, that violence is the path to getting whatever it is you want. And I find that an abhorrent belief.

Um, you stole the Holy Land by force. You've been at war with your neighbors for the last 70 years. And, yes, at least SOME of those wars you started. So please don't try to pretend you are a bunch of peace loving hippies in a drum circle, it doesn't pass the laugh test.

Listen. Carefully. Here it is: Because. It. Is. Our. Home.

Why, because the book with the Talking Snake and the Giants said it was? The problem with a biblical claim is that Christians and Muslims have an equally good claim, being the spiritual successors of Abraham and Moses.

And no matter how many times you tell us that we are from elsewhere because we were forced (as you just said!) out of our home - it will never stop being our home; our place in the world; the place of our ancestors and our history; the fabric from which our culture was made. You can lie about it. You can whine about it. You can rage. You can call us names and smear us with all the demonizing words. It will still be our home. You can try to exterminate us, you can try to cleanse us, you can try to diminish us. But. it. will. still. be. our. home. Everywhere else in the world is a place of sojourn.

Um, okay. Frankly, it sounds like a lot of religious nonsense to do something really stupid.

2/3rd of the World's Jews don't live in Israel, and have no intention of doing so. There wasn't a big push to move there until after Hitler tried to wipe you out. So this concept that "This is my home" falls a little flat. More like, "This is a place we can bully the local inhabitants into submission!"

The difference between my ideology and yours is that there is space for another people to have a home in that land in mine.

Except not really. The whole Premise of Zionism is that a boot must constantly be applied to the neck of the Palis to keep them in line. In short, it was the same motivation the Afrikaaners used to justify what used to be Apartheid South Africa.

Would you? I ask because the people of Gaza are also living next to someone who you claim are trying to murder them. Why are you not urging them to leave?

Because it's their home. let's be honest here, the Zionists tried their level best to get settlers to move to Gaza before 2005, but only 9000 of them did.

Hamas was a useful tool to keep Israel from negotiating with the PA on an equitable two-state solution. Except it bit you on the ass on 10/7.

 

[JoeB131]

As you see, Joe is a complete hook line and sinker gullible Democrat..... He actually might not be trustworthy if were to be investigated as based upon his constantly defending the indefensible.

The 1950s called, they want Joe McCarthy's corpse back.

 

[SaxonJackson]

Why?

Because Israel was not allowed to kill every Hamas terrorist in Gaza

We let the roots of Hamas live and like a weed it will grow back again

I think Trumpstein's peace plan will work perfectly. Once the genocide and ethnic cleansing is totally complete and every man, woman, and child are either blown to pieces or starved to a state of skeletal proportions, then we'll have sweet and wonderful peace.

And the most peaceful thing of all will be all of those luxury hotels and apartment buildings that will be built on a foundation of blood and guts. That, I'm sure, has the Trump Foundation construction crews sleeping very peacefully. All that cash flowing. Gotta love it. Right?

 

[Shusha]

Because it's their home.

Wow. Its like you are racing full speed through the hypocrite door I just opened for you.

 

[Mac-7]

I think Trumpstein's peace plan will work perfectly. Once the genocide and ethnic cleansing is totally complete and every man, woman, and child are either blown to pieces or starved to a state of skeletal proportions, then we'll have sweet and wonderful peace.

And the most peaceful thing of all will be all of those luxury hotels and apartment buildings that will be built on a foundation of blood and guts. That, I'm sure, has the Trump Foundation construction crews sleeping very peacefully. All that cash flowing. Gotta love it. Right?

The Pals have not fighting

Libs are anti Israel and pro terrorist

 

[JoeB131]

Wow. Its like you are racing full speed through the hypocrite door I just opened for you.

Invaders from Europe vs. people who have lived there for thousands of years... totally the same thing.

 

[JoeB131]

The Pals have not fighting

Libs are anti Israel and pro terrorist

The problem is, liberals have a consistency problem.

Anywhere else in the world, if a nation acted like Israel, liberals and even some conservatives would be demanding sanctions, and maybe even military intervention.

 

[SaxonJackson]

The Pals have not fighting

Libs are anti Israel and pro terrorist

The number one terrorist group on earth is Is-A-Real-Lie. It would be very difficult to be "pro-terrorist" and "anti-Israel" at the same time. But, then, there are a lot of bipolar, psychotic people on both sides of the political arena.