The Trump economy, AKA debt up to your eyeballs

[LoneLaugher]

Home buying and car buying is up, which happens in a good economy.

Really?

New car sales peaked in 2016. Sales are declining.

The increases in new home sales and new car sales were far more robust during Obama’s second term than in Trump’s first.

Did you admire the Obama economy?

 

[depotoo]

Home buying and car buying is up, which happens in a good economy.

The problem is that good economies don't last forever. The economy will falter again eventually and those who outspent their means when things were good will be in a hell of a bind when things get bad. You don't spend like a drunken sailor when things are good.. You SAVE. That way when things get bad you have a cushion to try to put between your butt and potholes in the economic road. Failure to do that could result in mass bankruptcies as soon as the economy slows.

THAT'S the concern.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Unfortunately, people are spending far more than they are making.



U.S. Household Debt Exceeds $14 Trillion for the First Time

1 out of 3 people run out of money before payday. Even those making 100 grand a year!!

This can't continue. This bubble is going to burst eventually.

Nearly 1 in 3 American workers run out of money before payday—even those earning over $100,000

What is the safe level of household debt?

It's based on income and monthly payments. Your monthly mortgage/rent should not exceed 25% of your gross income. If you own your home, 1/12 of your annual taxes should be included in this calculation. This is called your debt service ratio.

The total of all monthly debt service payments, including your mortgage/rent should not exceed 37% of your gross income, this would include car payments, credit card balances that aren't cleared monthly, and other consumer debt. What it doesn't include is utilities, car insurance, and other non-debt payments, so you really don't can't afford to be over that line.

I personally think that a total debt service ratio shouldn't exceed 35%. There's no wiggle room otherwise. We were right on that 37% line when bought our first house, and I found the budget was just way too tight, and there was no way to save for car repairs or other emergencies. Insurance repairs and gas for two vehicles, utilities, child care. These ratios are calculated on gross income, not net, so there's 15% withholding on top of that 38%. Half of your income is gone before you start paying for utilities, insurance, gas, child care, food and clothing.

It's based on income and monthly payments.

Not my question.

The OP said $14 trillion. What is the safe number?

 

[airplanemechanic]

Home buying and car buying is up, which happens in a good economy.

The problem is that good economies don't last forever. The economy will falter again eventually and those who outspent their means when things were good will be in a hell of a bind when things get bad. You don't spend like a drunken sailor when things are good.. You SAVE. That way when things get bad you have a cushion to try to put between your butt and potholes in the economic road. Failure to do that could result in mass bankruptcies as soon as the economy slows.

THAT'S the concern.

View attachment 306414

Irrelevant. Billionaires are getting richer. Doesn't mean everyone is saving more.

65% of Americans save little or nothing—and half could end up struggling in retirement

58% of Americans don't even have 1000 dollars saved up.

58% of Americans Have Less Than $1,000 in Savings, Survey Finds

World's wealthiest 1% own 45% of all wealth.

The world's richest 1 percent, those with more than $1 million, own 45 percent of the world's wealth. Adults with less than $10,000 in wealth make up 64 percent of the world's population but hold less than 2 percent of global wealth.

Global Inequality - Inequality.org

 

[depotoo]

Home buying and car buying is up, which happens in a good economy.

The problem is that good economies don't last forever. The economy will falter again eventually and those who outspent their means when things were good will be in a hell of a bind when things get bad. You don't spend like a drunken sailor when things are good.. You SAVE. That way when things get bad you have a cushion to try to put between your butt and potholes in the economic road. Failure to do that could result in mass bankruptcies as soon as the economy slows.

THAT'S the concern.

View attachment 306414

Irrelevant. Billionaires are getting richer. Doesn't mean everyone is saving more.

65% of Americans save little or nothing—and half could end up struggling in retirement

58% of Americans don't even have 1000 dollars saved up.

58% of Americans Have Less Than $1,000 in Savings, Survey Finds

World's wealthiest 1% own 45% of all wealth.

The world's richest 1 percent, those with more than $1 million, own 45 percent of the world's wealth. Adults with less than $10,000 in wealth make up 64 percent of the world's population but hold less than 2 percent of global wealth.

Global Inequality - Inequality.org

Oh boy. Now I see you’ve gone to the dark side.

 

[airplanemechanic]

Home buying and car buying is up, which happens in a good economy.

The problem is that good economies don't last forever. The economy will falter again eventually and those who outspent their means when things were good will be in a hell of a bind when things get bad. You don't spend like a drunken sailor when things are good.. You SAVE. That way when things get bad you have a cushion to try to put between your butt and potholes in the economic road. Failure to do that could result in mass bankruptcies as soon as the economy slows.

THAT'S the concern.

View attachment 306414

Irrelevant. Billionaires are getting richer. Doesn't mean everyone is saving more.

65% of Americans save little or nothing—and half could end up struggling in retirement

58% of Americans don't even have 1000 dollars saved up.

58% of Americans Have Less Than $1,000 in Savings, Survey Finds

World's wealthiest 1% own 45% of all wealth.

The world's richest 1 percent, those with more than $1 million, own 45 percent of the world's wealth. Adults with less than $10,000 in wealth make up 64 percent of the world's population but hold less than 2 percent of global wealth.

Global Inequality - Inequality.org

Oh boy. Now I see you’ve gone to the dark side.

Yea, the truth is ugly. Your lack if disputing a single thing posted says everything I don't need to.

 

[depotoo]

Home buying and car buying is up, which happens in a good economy.

The problem is that good economies don't last forever. The economy will falter again eventually and those who outspent their means when things were good will be in a hell of a bind when things get bad. You don't spend like a drunken sailor when things are good.. You SAVE. That way when things get bad you have a cushion to try to put between your butt and potholes in the economic road. Failure to do that could result in mass bankruptcies as soon as the economy slows.

THAT'S the concern.

View attachment 306414

Irrelevant. Billionaires are getting richer. Doesn't mean everyone is saving more.

65% of Americans save little or nothing—and half could end up struggling in retirement

58% of Americans don't even have 1000 dollars saved up.

58% of Americans Have Less Than $1,000 in Savings, Survey Finds

World's wealthiest 1% own 45% of all wealth.

The world's richest 1 percent, those with more than $1 million, own 45 percent of the world's wealth. Adults with less than $10,000 in wealth make up 64 percent of the world's population but hold less than 2 percent of global wealth.

Global Inequality - Inequality.org

Oh boy. Now I see you’ve gone to the dark side.

Yea, the truth is ugly. Your lack if disputing a single thing posted says everything I don't need to.

I did dispute your original post. You chose to ignore it.

 

[Dragonlady]

Home buying and car buying is up, which happens in a good economy.

The problem is that good economies don't last forever. The economy will falter again eventually and those who outspent their means when things were good will be in a hell of a bind when things get bad. You don't spend like a drunken sailor when things are good.. You SAVE. That way when things get bad you have a cushion to try to put between your butt and potholes in the economic road. Failure to do that could result in mass bankruptcies as soon as the economy slows.

THAT'S the concern.

View attachment 306414

Irrelevant. Billionaires are getting richer. Doesn't mean everyone is saving more.

65% of Americans save little or nothing—and half could end up struggling in retirement

58% of Americans don't even have 1000 dollars saved up.

58% of Americans Have Less Than $1,000 in Savings, Survey Finds

World's wealthiest 1% own 45% of all wealth.

The world's richest 1 percent, those with more than $1 million, own 45 percent of the world's wealth. Adults with less than $10,000 in wealth make up 64 percent of the world's population but hold less than 2 percent of global wealth.

Global Inequality - Inequality.org

Oh boy. Now I see you’ve gone to the dark side.

39553"]Home buying and car buying is up, which happens in a good economy.

The problem is that good economies don't last forever. The economy will falter again eventually and those who outspent their means when things were good will be in a hell of a bind when things get bad. You don't spend like a drunken sailor when things are good.. You SAVE. That way when things get bad you have a cushion to try to put between your butt and potholes in the economic road. Failure to do that could result in mass bankruptcies as soon as the economy slows.

THAT'S the concern.

View attachment 306414

Irrelevant. Billionaires are getting richer. Doesn't mean everyone is saving more.

65% of Americans save little or nothing—and half could end up struggling in retirement

58% of Americans don't even have 1000 dollars saved up.

58% of Americans Have Less Than $1,000 in Savings, Survey Finds

World's wealthiest 1% own 45% of all wealth.

The world's richest 1 percent, those with more than $1 million, own 45 percent of the world's wealth. Adults with less than $10,000 in wealth make up 64 percent of the world's population but hold less than 2 percent of global wealth.

Global Inequality - Inequality.org

Oh boy. Now I see you’ve gone to the dark side.[/QUOTE]

It's called "Living in the Real World". My husband was a production worker for a firm which makes store fixtures. Hourly production workers are always the first people to lose their jobs in an economic downturn. Our family finances were structured around one income. We can, and did live on my income quite a few times over our 30 year marriage. When both of us were working, we paid our credit cards off monthly, and saved money at every chance. After the first NAFTA deal was signed, Canada was plunged into a recession as branch plants of American companies, who produced in Canada to avoid tariffs, packed up their equipment and moved all those jobs to the States. Every company my husband worked for, went out of business. I called him the Harbinger of Doom. While interviewing, one company owner looked at his resume and said

Home buying and car buying is up, which happens in a good economy.

The problem is that good economies don't last forever. The economy will falter again eventually and those who outspent their means when things were good will be in a hell of a bind when things get bad. You don't spend like a drunken sailor when things are good.. You SAVE. That way when things get bad you have a cushion to try to put between your butt and potholes in the economic road. Failure to do that could result in mass bankruptcies as soon as the economy slows.

THAT'S the concern.

View attachment 306414

Irrelevant. Billionaires are getting richer. Doesn't mean everyone is saving more.

65% of Americans save little or nothing—and half could end up struggling in retirement

58% of Americans don't even have 1000 dollars saved up.

58% of Americans Have Less Than $1,000 in Savings, Survey Finds

World's wealthiest 1% own 45% of all wealth.

The world's richest 1 percent, those with more than $1 million, own 45 percent of the world's wealth. Adults with less than $10,000 in wealth make up 64 percent of the world's population but hold less than 2 percent of global wealth.

Global Inequality - Inequality.org

Oh boy. Now I see you’ve gone to the dark side.

Yea, the truth is ugly. Your lack if disputing a single thing posted says everything I don't need to.

My husband and I always set up our household to live on one income, and quite often we did. He worked for cabinet makers, and if the economy was down, he was the first to go. When we both worked, we cleared our credit cards monthly, and saved every dime possible for emergencies, car repairs, and our own peace of mind. When he was out of work, we used our line of credit for any shortfalls, and carried balances on our credit cards if we had to. Had we borrowed half the money offered to us, we would have been in deep trouble at the first layoff.

My daughter once asked if we were "poor", because we didn't live in a 3000 sq. foot McManson in Aurora, with two cars and a swimming, like her boyfriend's parents. A year later, after the stock market crashed 2008, his parents had lost their business, their home, and declared personal bankruptcy, when the bank made margin calls on their loan securities.

We were still living in our modest 2 storey house, with one used car in the driveway, and a membership at the oh so posh Mayfair Club. I miss that place. So much.

Mayfair Clubs | Fitness Clubs Toronto

 

[Mac1958]

Unfortunately, people are spending far more than they are making.

U.S. Household Debt Exceeds $14 Trillion for the First Time

1 out of 3 people run out of money before payday. Even those making 100 grand a year!!

This can't continue. This bubble is going to burst eventually.

Nearly 1 in 3 American workers run out of money before payday—even those earning over $100,000

Household debt is way up, corporate debt is way up, the budget deficit is way up, and the NY Fed is pouring hundreds of billions into the system to keep the gears turning.

Those are just facts, but now that the Trumpsters have embraced fiscal socialism, they don't want to know.
.

 

[airplanemechanic]

Unfortunately, people are spending far more than they are making.

U.S. Household Debt Exceeds $14 Trillion for the First Time

1 out of 3 people run out of money before payday. Even those making 100 grand a year!!

This can't continue. This bubble is going to burst eventually.

Nearly 1 in 3 American workers run out of money before payday—even those earning over $100,000

Household debt is way up, corporate debt is way up, the budget deficit is way up, and the NY Fed is pouring hundreds of billions into the system to keep the gears turning.

Those are just facts, but now that the Trumpsters have embraced fiscal socialism, they don't want to know.
.

I think Trump is a great president presiding over a great economy. BUT I can't deny that debt is getting out of hand. Not the national debt but personal debt. People are buying all this crap that they can't pay for.

Some people are buying mortgages yes, but house purchases are not up enough to cause this huge increase in personal debt.

 

[tyroneweaver]

Unfortunately, people are spending far more than they are making.

U.S. Household Debt Exceeds $14 Trillion for the First Time

1 out of 3 people run out of money before payday. Even those making 100 grand a year!!

This can't continue. This bubble is going to burst eventually.

Nearly 1 in 3 American workers run out of money before payday—even those earnTing over $100,000

Trump introduced a reduced federal budget and he was attacked mercilessly by democrats so you op/thread is worthless

 

[Dragonlady]

Unfortunately, people are spending far more than they are making.

U.S. Household Debt Exceeds $14 Trillion for the First Time

1 out of 3 people run out of money before payday. Even those making 100 grand a year!!

This can't continue. This bubble is going to burst eventually.

Nearly 1 in 3 American workers run out of money before payday—even those earnTing over $100,000

Trump introduced a reduced federal budget and he was attacked mercilessly by democrats so you op/thread is worthless

Yes, tax cuts for multimillionaires, cuts to Medicare, Medicaid, and food stamps, cuts to crop insurance for farmers. More money for to lock up thousands more people at the border, and more money to build weapons. Programs which benefit the people are being cut, in favour of building Fortress America.

 

[Zorro!]

Unfortunately, people are spending far more than they are making.

U.S. Household Debt Exceeds $14 Trillion for the First Time

1 out of 3 people run out of money before payday. Even those making 100 grand a year!!

This can't continue. This bubble is going to burst eventually.

Nearly 1 in 3 American workers run out of money before payday—even those earning over $100,000

Do you check anything before you post it?

Household debt service as a percentage of disposable income is the LOWEST ever recorded!

Huge: More ‘better off’ under Trump than Clinton, Bush, and Obama.

Another day, another positive Gallup headline for President Trump.

Today’s delivered more economic good news for Trump, that people feel “better off” than they did when the past four presidents were up for reelection.

A record 61% said they are better off than they were three years ago when Trump beat Democrat Crooked Hillary.

“Six in 10 U.S. adults say they are better off than they were three years ago, more than reported this in prior presidential reelection years,” said Gallup.​

No wonder so many people hate him. The man is a monster!

 

[excalibur]

Unfortunately, people are spending far more than they are making.

U.S. Household Debt Exceeds $14 Trillion for the First Time

...

The level of household debt service as a percentage of disposable personal income is at all-time lows going back to 1980.​

Household debt jumps the most in 12 years, Federal Reserve report says

 

[Dragonlady]

Unfortunately, people are spending far more than they are making.

U.S. Household Debt Exceeds $14 Trillion for the First Time

1 out of 3 people run out of money before payday. Even those making 100 grand a year!!

This can't continue. This bubble is going to burst eventually.

Nearly 1 in 3 American workers run out of money before payday—even those earning over $100,000

Do you check anything before you post it?

Household debt service as a percentage of disposable income is the LOWEST ever recorded!

Huge: More ‘better off’ under Trump than Clinton, Bush, and Obama.

Another day, another positive Gallup headline for President Trump.

Today’s delivered more economic good news for Trump, that people feel “better off” than they did when the past four presidents were up for reelection.

A record 61% said they are better off than they were three years ago when Trump beat Democrat Crooked Hillary.

“Six in 10 U.S. adults say they are better off than they were three years ago, more than reported this in prior presidential reelection years,” said Gallup.​

No wonder so many people hate him. The man is a monster!

Hardly. Your chart starts in 1985. And it's the percentage of "disposable income".

Furthermore when I dug into the Data, I found this disclaimer:

The limitations of current sources of data make the calculation of the ratio especially difficult. The ideal data set for such a calculation would have the required payments on every loan held by every household in the United States. Such a data set is not available, and thus the calculated series is only an approximation of the debt service ratio faced by households.

Household Debt Service and Financial Obligations Ratios

At best it's a "guestimate", and as such, open to manipulation and abuse. But nice try.

 

[Zorro!]

Unfortunately, people are spending far more than they are making.

U.S. Household Debt Exceeds $14 Trillion for the First Time

1 out of 3 people run out of money before payday. Even those making 100 grand a year!!

This can't continue. This bubble is going to burst eventually.

Nearly 1 in 3 American workers run out of money before payday—even those earning over $100,000

Do you check anything before you post it?

Household debt service as a percentage of disposable income is the LOWEST ever recorded!

Huge: More ‘better off’ under Trump than Clinton, Bush, and Obama.

Another day, another positive Gallup headline for President Trump.

Today’s delivered more economic good news for Trump, that people feel “better off” than they did when the past four presidents were up for reelection.

A record 61% said they are better off than they were three years ago when Trump beat Democrat Crooked Hillary.

“Six in 10 U.S. adults say they are better off than they were three years ago, more than reported this in prior presidential reelection years,” said Gallup.​

No wonder so many people hate him. The man is a monster!

Hardly. Your chart starts in 1985.

It starts at the beginning of 1980.

... And it's the percentage of "disposable income"...

That's what you use to service debt.

The limitations of current sources of data make the calculation of the ratio especially difficult. The ideal data set for such a calculation would have the required payments on every loan held by every household in the United States. Such a data set is not available, and thus the calculated series is only an approximation of the debt service ratio faced by households.

You forget this part:

Nonetheless, this approximation is useful to the extent that, by using the same method and data series over time, it generates a time series that captures the important changes in the household debt service burden.​

Contrary to the false claims in the opening paragraph, households have more available resources to meet current debt payments, than at anytime in the last FORTY YEARS!

This chart also starts at 1980, and uses income rather than disposable income, and again, finds US households in the best shape in nearly 40 years.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Unfortunately, people are spending far more than they are making.

U.S. Household Debt Exceeds $14 Trillion for the First Time

1 out of 3 people run out of money before payday. Even those making 100 grand a year!!

This can't continue. This bubble is going to burst eventually.

Nearly 1 in 3 American workers run out of money before payday—even those earning over $100,000

Do you check anything before you post it?

Household debt service as a percentage of disposable income is the LOWEST ever recorded!

Huge: More ‘better off’ under Trump than Clinton, Bush, and Obama.

Another day, another positive Gallup headline for President Trump.

Today’s delivered more economic good news for Trump, that people feel “better off” than they did when the past four presidents were up for reelection.

A record 61% said they are better off than they were three years ago when Trump beat Democrat Crooked Hillary.

“Six in 10 U.S. adults say they are better off than they were three years ago, more than reported this in prior presidential reelection years,” said Gallup.​

No wonder so many people hate him. The man is a monster!

Hardly. Your chart starts in 1985. And it's the percentage of "disposable income".

Furthermore when I dug into the Data, I found this disclaimer:

The limitations of current sources of data make the calculation of the ratio especially difficult. The ideal data set for such a calculation would have the required payments on every loan held by every household in the United States. Such a data set is not available, and thus the calculated series is only an approximation of the debt service ratio faced by households.

Household Debt Service and Financial Obligations Ratios

At best it's a "guestimate", and as such, open to manipulation and abuse. But nice try.

DURR

 

[Mac1958]

Amazing watching the Trumpsters celebrate an economy being buoyed by BLATANTLY socialist elements like massively increased government spending and massive Fed intervention.

Do they know this stuff? Do they not, have they not been told? Are they ignorant, or are they lying?

 

[Dragonlady]

Unfortunately, people are spending far more than they are making.

U.S. Household Debt Exceeds $14 Trillion for the First Time

1 out of 3 people run out of money before payday. Even those making 100 grand a year!!

This can't continue. This bubble is going to burst eventually.

Nearly 1 in 3 American workers run out of money before payday—even those earning over $100,000

Do you check anything before you post it?

Household debt service as a percentage of disposable income is the LOWEST ever recorded!

Huge: More ‘better off’ under Trump than Clinton, Bush, and Obama.

Another day, another positive Gallup headline for President Trump.

Today’s delivered more economic good news for Trump, that people feel “better off” than they did when the past four presidents were up for reelection.

A record 61% said they are better off than they were three years ago when Trump beat Democrat Crooked Hillary.

“Six in 10 U.S. adults say they are better off than they were three years ago, more than reported this in prior presidential reelection years,” said Gallup.​

No wonder so many people hate him. The man is a monster!

Hardly. Your chart starts in 1985.

It starts at the beginning of 1980.

... And it's the percentage of "disposable income"...

That's what you use to service debt.

The limitations of current sources of data make the calculation of the ratio especially difficult. The ideal data set for such a calculation would have the required payments on every loan held by every household in the United States. Such a data set is not available, and thus the calculated series is only an approximation of the debt service ratio faced by households.

You forget this part:

Nonetheless, this approximation is useful to the extent that, by using the same method and data series over time, it generates a time series that captures the important changes in the household debt service burden.​

Contrary to the false claims in the opening paragraph, households have more available resources to meet current debt payments, than at anytime in the last FORTY YEARS!

This chart also starts at 1980, and uses income rather than disposable income, and again, finds US households in the best shape in nearly 40 years.

Actually, the chart shows that debt service ratios were this low under Obama as well, but you chose to ignore than to pimp the Liar in Chief.

The FRED's disclaimers basically say, that if you use faulty data consistently, it will yield correct results. I'm not buying it.

How people "feel" about their financial situations is a poor measure of the economy, especially when those feelings aren't borne out by the actual data.

For 8 years Republicans called Obama a failure and you bought into those feelings in electing Trump. Now you're convinced that things are better under Trump, but the data simply doesn't support your "feelings".

You're being conned. Again.

 

[whitehall]

I guess people spend more than they are making only during republican administrations. Unemployment among young Blacks was at double digits during the Obama years and today young Black kids are able to find a job. Unemployment in general is at a historic low during the Trump administration and lefties hate it because they thrive on unrest and hatred.