The true living God

[ding]

I'm just trying to help you get people to read your posts.

Thank you Taz
But this is not the same for all people: ("other people" require a different conversation altogether).
to shorten this for YOU,
please tell me what YOU want to address.

Do you want to see PROOF of impact of forgiveness on healing
and how:
a. healing of MENTAL ILLNESS - which ones Schizophrenia, Pedophilia, criminal addiction
b. healing of PHYSICAL DISEASE - which ones cancer, diabetes, AIDS, West Nile Virus
c. healing of Political Relationships - like liberals and conservatives, D and R parties working together

A.

I won't read all your ramblings. Try to make your point in one small paragraph.

A.
In order to set up MEASURABLE scientific study (on operations of God's/Universal laws)
I answered we could show STATISTICAL CORRELATION between
* forgiveness and healing (of mind, body and relations between people or groups)
* unforgiveness and failure to heal, recovery or reconcile between opposing groups

FORGIVENESS also CORRELATES with changes in perception, such as
* INCLUSION instead of REJECTION of others
* and seeing individual or local changes and "having faith" this connects to "collective or global change"

STATISTICS will show this is by DEGRESS:
As people see more proof that healing works, and report forgiving more conflicts
this would correlate with having more faith that this healing process can be
applied to affect global society, and not take so long by this individual process.

Waaayyy too long. Don't have time for that.

You can’t even spare the 3 minutes and 16 seconds to watch a video of a renowned cosmologist explain how the universe was created from nothing.

Talking isn’t proof, it’s a theory. Get your act together.

It’s the words that describe the proof. That’s how talking works.

 

[Taz]

I'm just trying to help you get people to read your posts.

Thank you Taz
But this is not the same for all people: ("other people" require a different conversation altogether).
to shorten this for YOU,
please tell me what YOU want to address.

Do you want to see PROOF of impact of forgiveness on healing
and how:
a. healing of MENTAL ILLNESS - which ones Schizophrenia, Pedophilia, criminal addiction
b. healing of PHYSICAL DISEASE - which ones cancer, diabetes, AIDS, West Nile Virus
c. healing of Political Relationships - like liberals and conservatives, D and R parties working together

A.

I won't read all your ramblings. Try to make your point in one small paragraph.

A.
In order to set up MEASURABLE scientific study (on operations of God's/Universal laws)
I answered we could show STATISTICAL CORRELATION between
* forgiveness and healing (of mind, body and relations between people or groups)
* unforgiveness and failure to heal, recovery or reconcile between opposing groups

FORGIVENESS also CORRELATES with changes in perception, such as
* INCLUSION instead of REJECTION of others
* and seeing individual or local changes and "having faith" this connects to "collective or global change"

STATISTICS will show this is by DEGRESS:
As people see more proof that healing works, and report forgiving more conflicts
this would correlate with having more faith that this healing process can be
applied to affect global society, and not take so long by this individual process.

Waaayyy too long. Don't have time for that.

You can’t even spare the 3 minutes and 16 seconds to watch a video of a renowned cosmologist explain how the universe was created from nothing.

Talking isn’t proof, it’s a theory. Get your act together.

It’s the words that describe the proof. That’s how talking works.

Extraordinary claims need extraordinary proof. You think you can prove god by talking. Only idiots fall for that.

 

[ding]

Thank you Taz
But this is not the same for all people: ("other people" require a different conversation altogether).
to shorten this for YOU,
please tell me what YOU want to address.

Do you want to see PROOF of impact of forgiveness on healing
and how:
a. healing of MENTAL ILLNESS - which ones Schizophrenia, Pedophilia, criminal addiction
b. healing of PHYSICAL DISEASE - which ones cancer, diabetes, AIDS, West Nile Virus
c. healing of Political Relationships - like liberals and conservatives, D and R parties working together

A. A.
In order to set up MEASURABLE scientific study (on operations of God's/Universal laws)
I answered we could show STATISTICAL CORRELATION between
* forgiveness and healing (of mind, body and relations between people or groups)
* unforgiveness and failure to heal, recovery or reconcile between opposing groups

FORGIVENESS also CORRELATES with changes in perception, such as
* INCLUSION instead of REJECTION of others
* and seeing individual or local changes and "having faith" this connects to "collective or global change"

STATISTICS will show this is by DEGRESS:
As people see more proof that healing works, and report forgiving more conflicts
this would correlate with having more faith that this healing process can be
applied to affect global society, and not take so long by this individual process.

Waaayyy too long. Don't have time for that.

You can’t even spare the 3 minutes and 16 seconds to watch a video of a renowned cosmologist explain how the universe was created from nothing.

Talking isn’t proof, it’s a theory. Get your act together.

It’s the words that describe the proof. That’s how talking works.

Extraordinary claims need extraordinary proof. You think you can prove god by talking. Only idiots fall for that.

You mean like acceptance by the scientific community?

Or that the scientific community are idiots?

 

[emilynghiem]

You can’t even spare the 3 minutes and 16 seconds to watch a video of a renowned cosmologist explain how the universe was created from nothing.

Dear ding
if that was the best way to communicate a point with Taz
it would work. He would be interested and it would help.

He made it clear he's looking for something else.

Check out his answer above about Catholics
healing and stopping the abuse caused to victims.

That's a GREAT focus point!

ding if you are still working with various Catholic
groups, organizations, and authorities,
can you get us in contact with someone willing to
spearhead a proposal to provide SPIRITUAL HEALING
on all these levels
1. treatment after the fact and advance diagnosis of
pedophile and other sexual addictive/abusive disorders,
not only priests but general populations of sex offenders
(using the very healing and deliverance/exorcisms methods
that Catholic priests use for the demonically sick and obsessed)

2. reforming prisons to be teaching hospitals and treatment
centers for rehab and restitution (where convicted capital
and sex offenders can access treatment while working jobs
to provide restitution, including priests who can help minister there)

3. setting up these alternative programs as campus facilities
on the BORDER to help provide services to immigrants and victims
of abuse, cults and gang violence, trafficking etc.

www.earnedamnesty.org

NOTE: Taz also argued about Muslims and Shariah Law/Jihadists with dangerous/oppressive practices

Why not address both problems at once?

1. the Catholic church is against the Death Penalty
and wants to promote MEANINGFUL restitution alternatives and
Restorative Justice approaches to redemption
2. the FORT HOOD SHOOTING by a mentally ill
criminally violent Jihadist-sympathizer SHOULD have been
prevented by proper screening. Instead 13 families are stuck
paying for this violent attack while taxpayer money pays for the
lifetime sentence and health care for the incapacitated shooter.
3. the BOSTON BOMBING that killed and maimed innocent people
and has the surviving attacker on Death Row is costing taxpayers
money while not solving the problems that caused the violence.

Why not work with Catholic and Muslim supporters to
create a teaching hospital WITHIN a prison system on the Border
and sentence the surviving Boston Bomber to serve as a medical
intern to take care of the Ft. Hood shooter for the rest of their lives?

The Spiritual healing methods that can screen and cure mental
and criminal illness can be studied, taught and provided to sick
offenders, sent to this alternative prison instead of taxpayers
funding death rows. Military hospitals along the Border can
provide jobs and services for populations in LEGAL ways,
on EITHER side of the border for residents who register
and comply with rules for work-study jobs on campuses.

The Catholic programs can be run as charitable ministries
and voluntary services, while the SECURITY is provided
by military and govt run prisons.

Why can't we have BOTH border security to deter trafficking
and send violent criminals and sex offenders to detention
from society while serving RESTITUTION, and still allow
nonprofit humanitarian charities to provide social services
WITHIN these govt facilities?

 

[ding]

You can’t even spare the 3 minutes and 16 seconds to watch a video of a renowned cosmologist explain how the universe was created from nothing.

Dear ding
if that was the best way to communicate a point with Taz
it would work. He would be interested and it would help.

He made it clear he's looking for something else.

Check out his answer above about Catholics
healing and stopping the abuse caused to victims.

That's a GREAT focus point!

ding if you are still working with various Catholic
groups, organizations, and authorities,
can you get us in contact with someone willing to
spearhead a proposal to provide SPIRITUAL HEALING
on all these levels
1. treatment after the fact and advance diagnosis of
pedophile and other sexual addictive/abusive disorders,
not only priests but general populations of sex offenders
(using the very healing and deliverance/exorcisms methods
that Catholic priests use for the demonically sick and obsessed)

2. reforming prisons to be teaching hospitals and treatment
centers for rehab and restitution (where convicted capital
and sex offenders can access treatment while working jobs
to provide restitution, including priests who can help minister there)

3. setting up these alternative programs as campus facilities
on the BORDER to help provide services to immigrants and victims
of abuse, cults and gang violence, trafficking etc.

www.earnedamnesty.org

NOTE: Taz also argued about Muslims and Shariah Law/Jihadists with dangerous/oppressive practices

Why not address both problems at once?

1. the Catholic church is against the Death Penalty
and wants to promote MEANINGFUL restitution alternatives and
Restorative Justice approaches to redemption
2. the FORT HOOD SHOOTING by a mentally ill
criminally violent Jihadist-sympathizer SHOULD have been
prevented by proper screening. Instead 13 families are stuck
paying for this violent attack while taxpayer money pays for the
lifetime sentence and health care for the incapacitated shooter.
3. the BOSTON BOMBING that killed and maimed innocent people
and has the surviving attacker on Death Row is costing taxpayers
money while not solving the problems that caused the violence.

Why not work with Catholic and Muslim supporters to
create a teaching hospital WITHIN a prison system on the Border
and sentence the surviving Boston Bomber to serve as a medical
intern to take care of the Ft. Hood shooter for the rest of their lives?

The Spiritual healing methods that can screen and cure mental
and criminal illness can be studied, taught and provided to sick
offenders, sent to this alternative prison instead of taxpayers
funding death rows. Military hospitals along the Border can
provide jobs and services for populations in LEGAL ways,
on EITHER side of the border for residents who register
and comply with rules for work-study jobs on campuses.

The Catholic programs can be run as charitable ministries
and voluntary services, while the SECURITY is provided
by military and govt run prisons.

Why can't we have BOTH border security to deter trafficking
and send violent criminals and sex offenders to detention
from society while serving RESTITUTION, and still allow
nonprofit humanitarian charities to provide social services
WITHIN these govt facilities?

It was 100% the best way to communicate with Taz.

 

[Taz]

Waaayyy too long. Don't have time for that.

You can’t even spare the 3 minutes and 16 seconds to watch a video of a renowned cosmologist explain how the universe was created from nothing.

Talking isn’t proof, it’s a theory. Get your act together.

It’s the words that describe the proof. That’s how talking works.

Extraordinary claims need extraordinary proof. You think you can prove god by talking. Only idiots fall for that.

You mean like acceptance by the scientific community?

Or that the scientific community are idiots?

You’re a boring imbecile.

 

[ding]

You can’t even spare the 3 minutes and 16 seconds to watch a video of a renowned cosmologist explain how the universe was created from nothing.

Talking isn’t proof, it’s a theory. Get your act together.

It’s the words that describe the proof. That’s how talking works.

Extraordinary claims need extraordinary proof. You think you can prove god by talking. Only idiots fall for that.

You mean like acceptance by the scientific community?

Or that the scientific community are idiots?

You’re a boring imbecile.

Well... according to you the scientific community are idiots.

 

[Taz]

Talking isn’t proof, it’s a theory. Get your act together.

It’s the words that describe the proof. That’s how talking works.

Extraordinary claims need extraordinary proof. You think you can prove god by talking. Only idiots fall for that.

You mean like acceptance by the scientific community?

Or that the scientific community are idiots?

You’re a boring imbecile.

Well... according to you the scientific community are idiots.

 

[ding]

#winning

 

[alang1216]

If there was only one God, why did he allow so many contradictory religions? (Hey I was only 12.)

Dear alang1216
By definition there is only one "GOD" if God means the supreme Almighty/Absolute.
What is diverse are the systems of laws and religions which are like LANGUAGES for the laws.
(so the ABSOLUTE laws that are self-existent are the SAME/UNIVERSAL for all humanity but the EXPRESSIONS of these laws are "RELATIVE" and differ by Culture, Tribe, and Nation for those audiences that develops their own to share equal ownership of the same body of laws)

The reason there are so many is to ORGANIZE humanity by TRIBES.
This is like having 50 states in one UNION, so each State can govern its own people with LOCAL SOVEREIGNTY.

All 50 states are still under one NATIONAL law and govt.
But that's TOO MANY people to govern effectively under one centralized system.

So given the complex needs, relations and institutions necessary for people socially,
we diversify and LOCALIZE so people can govern themselves DEMOCRATICALLY to REPRESENT themselves EQUALLY.

If all the birds had to live in a tree with just
ONE HUGE TRUNK, there would be no place for all the birds to build their own nests.

So the TRUNK divides into BRANCHES and the Branches subdivide
to hold more leaves and hold more nests for all the birds.

This is like the FAMILY of HUMANITY that will have different tribes
so people can organize under the group and leadership that represents THEM.

Not really buying this either. Doesn't Jesus claim that the way to the father is through him? If that is true, what of people of other religions, are they out of luck or was John misquoting Jesus? IOW, does everyone, regardless of their religion have an equal shot at heaven? If they do, what is the purpose of religions, if not, the majority of people are doomed.

Yes alang1216
What this means is the way of RESTORATIVE JUSTICE (which Christ Jesus represents)
is what saves Humanity from war, greed, suffering, ills abuse and other destruction we perpetuate ourselves.

Instead of RETRIBUTIVE JUSTICE (which is ANTICHRIST)

Compare in general the
* OT which is full of war and genocide (antichrist,
judgement and punishment, living by the letter of the
law corrupted by greed and RULE BY "Retributive Justice")
* NT which is about renewal, restoration living by LOVE of
Truth, Justice and Peace to RESTORE human relations and society

You can SEE when people take one side of JUSTICE over another.
That is WHY "Jesus" is warned as bringing a TWO EDGED SWORD
that "divides people against each other" (this division shows when
you compare people taking the Restorative approach to Justice
being opposed by people taking the Retributive approach instead)

You have your choice of
* Retributive Justice where you get the judgment you give
* Restorative Justice where you forgive others for you to be forgiven

So THIS explains why some people teach
* God and Jesus as JUDGING and CONDEMNING by Authority of law
* others teach God as LOVE and Jesus as granting Justice with MERCY and CHARITY

alang1216 does this make sense that we have people
and groups taking BOTH these approaches to "Justice"

And WHICH do you believe makes more sense if Jesus means
SALVATION and bringing true Justice and Peace to SAVE HUMANITY.
Which do you find brings REDEMPTION HEALING and RESTORATION
* Look up Restorative Justice to see the results it has had on people
* For Retributive Justice look at wars, bullying in the media and politics,
backbiting and all manner of negative judgement blame and punishment

What makes more sense that Jesus would represent?
Restorative Justice? that brings renewal of relations and healing to humanity?
or
Retributive Justice that brings destruction and more war?

If you can understand why Christ Jesus would mean RESTORATIVE JUSTICE
then you can see what it means for all humanity needing to take
THIS path to restore justice and peace in order to establish
"peace on earth" or the "Kingdom of God".

Does this make more sense?

You make perfect sense. Unfortunately I see very little evidence that the followers of Jesus have made this world a better place because of what Jesus said and did.

The real followers have. They listen to Jesus over men. That is FEW unfortunately. Jesus started one single religion. Its the only religion he is with--Not 34,000 different ones. That is caused by confusion of believing men and their errors over Jesus.

Sounds like a 'no true scotsman' fallacy.

In my understanding, Jesus didn't start any religions, he was born a Jew and died a Jew, his followers started Christianity. And there were ALWAYS multiple Christian religions. IMHO

 

[ding]

Dear alang1216
By definition there is only one "GOD" if God means the supreme Almighty/Absolute.
What is diverse are the systems of laws and religions which are like LANGUAGES for the laws.
(so the ABSOLUTE laws that are self-existent are the SAME/UNIVERSAL for all humanity but the EXPRESSIONS of these laws are "RELATIVE" and differ by Culture, Tribe, and Nation for those audiences that develops their own to share equal ownership of the same body of laws)

The reason there are so many is to ORGANIZE humanity by TRIBES.
This is like having 50 states in one UNION, so each State can govern its own people with LOCAL SOVEREIGNTY.

All 50 states are still under one NATIONAL law and govt.
But that's TOO MANY people to govern effectively under one centralized system.

So given the complex needs, relations and institutions necessary for people socially,
we diversify and LOCALIZE so people can govern themselves DEMOCRATICALLY to REPRESENT themselves EQUALLY.

If all the birds had to live in a tree with just
ONE HUGE TRUNK, there would be no place for all the birds to build their own nests.

So the TRUNK divides into BRANCHES and the Branches subdivide
to hold more leaves and hold more nests for all the birds.

This is like the FAMILY of HUMANITY that will have different tribes
so people can organize under the group and leadership that represents THEM.

Not really buying this either. Doesn't Jesus claim that the way to the father is through him? If that is true, what of people of other religions, are they out of luck or was John misquoting Jesus? IOW, does everyone, regardless of their religion have an equal shot at heaven? If they do, what is the purpose of religions, if not, the majority of people are doomed.

Yes alang1216
What this means is the way of RESTORATIVE JUSTICE (which Christ Jesus represents)
is what saves Humanity from war, greed, suffering, ills abuse and other destruction we perpetuate ourselves.

Instead of RETRIBUTIVE JUSTICE (which is ANTICHRIST)

Compare in general the
* OT which is full of war and genocide (antichrist,
judgement and punishment, living by the letter of the
law corrupted by greed and RULE BY "Retributive Justice")
* NT which is about renewal, restoration living by LOVE of
Truth, Justice and Peace to RESTORE human relations and society

You can SEE when people take one side of JUSTICE over another.
That is WHY "Jesus" is warned as bringing a TWO EDGED SWORD
that "divides people against each other" (this division shows when
you compare people taking the Restorative approach to Justice
being opposed by people taking the Retributive approach instead)

You have your choice of
* Retributive Justice where you get the judgment you give
* Restorative Justice where you forgive others for you to be forgiven

So THIS explains why some people teach
* God and Jesus as JUDGING and CONDEMNING by Authority of law
* others teach God as LOVE and Jesus as granting Justice with MERCY and CHARITY

alang1216 does this make sense that we have people
and groups taking BOTH these approaches to "Justice"

And WHICH do you believe makes more sense if Jesus means
SALVATION and bringing true Justice and Peace to SAVE HUMANITY.
Which do you find brings REDEMPTION HEALING and RESTORATION
* Look up Restorative Justice to see the results it has had on people
* For Retributive Justice look at wars, bullying in the media and politics,
backbiting and all manner of negative judgement blame and punishment

What makes more sense that Jesus would represent?
Restorative Justice? that brings renewal of relations and healing to humanity?
or
Retributive Justice that brings destruction and more war?

If you can understand why Christ Jesus would mean RESTORATIVE JUSTICE
then you can see what it means for all humanity needing to take
THIS path to restore justice and peace in order to establish
"peace on earth" or the "Kingdom of God".

Does this make more sense?

You make perfect sense. Unfortunately I see very little evidence that the followers of Jesus have made this world a better place because of what Jesus said and did.

The real followers have. They listen to Jesus over men. That is FEW unfortunately. Jesus started one single religion. Its the only religion he is with--Not 34,000 different ones. That is caused by confusion of believing men and their errors over Jesus.

Sounds like a 'no true scotsman' fallacy.

In my understanding, Jesus didn't start any religions, he was born a Jew and died a Jew, his followers started Christianity. And there were ALWAYS multiple Christian religions. IMHO

And rose a Jew.

Tell me again what multiple sects of Christianity means? Arguing there can be no God because everyone doesn’t agree on who God is is illogical AF.

 

[Taz]

Not really buying this either. Doesn't Jesus claim that the way to the father is through him? If that is true, what of people of other religions, are they out of luck or was John misquoting Jesus? IOW, does everyone, regardless of their religion have an equal shot at heaven? If they do, what is the purpose of religions, if not, the majority of people are doomed.

Yes alang1216
What this means is the way of RESTORATIVE JUSTICE (which Christ Jesus represents)
is what saves Humanity from war, greed, suffering, ills abuse and other destruction we perpetuate ourselves.

Instead of RETRIBUTIVE JUSTICE (which is ANTICHRIST)

Compare in general the
* OT which is full of war and genocide (antichrist,
judgement and punishment, living by the letter of the
law corrupted by greed and RULE BY "Retributive Justice")
* NT which is about renewal, restoration living by LOVE of
Truth, Justice and Peace to RESTORE human relations and society

You can SEE when people take one side of JUSTICE over another.
That is WHY "Jesus" is warned as bringing a TWO EDGED SWORD
that "divides people against each other" (this division shows when
you compare people taking the Restorative approach to Justice
being opposed by people taking the Retributive approach instead)

You have your choice of
* Retributive Justice where you get the judgment you give
* Restorative Justice where you forgive others for you to be forgiven

So THIS explains why some people teach
* God and Jesus as JUDGING and CONDEMNING by Authority of law
* others teach God as LOVE and Jesus as granting Justice with MERCY and CHARITY

alang1216 does this make sense that we have people
and groups taking BOTH these approaches to "Justice"

And WHICH do you believe makes more sense if Jesus means
SALVATION and bringing true Justice and Peace to SAVE HUMANITY.
Which do you find brings REDEMPTION HEALING and RESTORATION
* Look up Restorative Justice to see the results it has had on people
* For Retributive Justice look at wars, bullying in the media and politics,
backbiting and all manner of negative judgement blame and punishment

What makes more sense that Jesus would represent?
Restorative Justice? that brings renewal of relations and healing to humanity?
or
Retributive Justice that brings destruction and more war?

If you can understand why Christ Jesus would mean RESTORATIVE JUSTICE
then you can see what it means for all humanity needing to take
THIS path to restore justice and peace in order to establish
"peace on earth" or the "Kingdom of God".

Does this make more sense?

You make perfect sense. Unfortunately I see very little evidence that the followers of Jesus have made this world a better place because of what Jesus said and did.

The real followers have. They listen to Jesus over men. That is FEW unfortunately. Jesus started one single religion. Its the only religion he is with--Not 34,000 different ones. That is caused by confusion of believing men and their errors over Jesus.

Sounds like a 'no true scotsman' fallacy.

In my understanding, Jesus didn't start any religions, he was born a Jew and died a Jew, his followers started Christianity. And there were ALWAYS multiple Christian religions. IMHO

And rose a Jew.

Tell me again what multiple sects of Christianity means? Arguing there can be no God because everyone doesn’t agree on who God is is illogical AF.

If god is provable, which can't everyone agree on it?

 

[alang1216]

In my understanding, Jesus didn't start any religions, he was born a Jew and died a Jew, his followers started Christianity. And there were ALWAYS multiple Christian religions. IMHO

And rose a Jew.

Tell me again what multiple sects of Christianity means? Arguing there can be no God because everyone doesn’t agree on who God is is illogical AF.

Here's a list of movements declared heretical by the Catholic Church. Note that many of these early churches were formed very soon after the death of Jesus so there were people still living who heard Jesus speak.

 

[kjw47]

Dear alang1216
By definition there is only one "GOD" if God means the supreme Almighty/Absolute.
What is diverse are the systems of laws and religions which are like LANGUAGES for the laws.
(so the ABSOLUTE laws that are self-existent are the SAME/UNIVERSAL for all humanity but the EXPRESSIONS of these laws are "RELATIVE" and differ by Culture, Tribe, and Nation for those audiences that develops their own to share equal ownership of the same body of laws)

The reason there are so many is to ORGANIZE humanity by TRIBES.
This is like having 50 states in one UNION, so each State can govern its own people with LOCAL SOVEREIGNTY.

All 50 states are still under one NATIONAL law and govt.
But that's TOO MANY people to govern effectively under one centralized system.

So given the complex needs, relations and institutions necessary for people socially,
we diversify and LOCALIZE so people can govern themselves DEMOCRATICALLY to REPRESENT themselves EQUALLY.

If all the birds had to live in a tree with just
ONE HUGE TRUNK, there would be no place for all the birds to build their own nests.

So the TRUNK divides into BRANCHES and the Branches subdivide
to hold more leaves and hold more nests for all the birds.

This is like the FAMILY of HUMANITY that will have different tribes
so people can organize under the group and leadership that represents THEM.

Not really buying this either. Doesn't Jesus claim that the way to the father is through him? If that is true, what of people of other religions, are they out of luck or was John misquoting Jesus? IOW, does everyone, regardless of their religion have an equal shot at heaven? If they do, what is the purpose of religions, if not, the majority of people are doomed.

Yes alang1216
What this means is the way of RESTORATIVE JUSTICE (which Christ Jesus represents)
is what saves Humanity from war, greed, suffering, ills abuse and other destruction we perpetuate ourselves.

Instead of RETRIBUTIVE JUSTICE (which is ANTICHRIST)

Compare in general the
* OT which is full of war and genocide (antichrist,
judgement and punishment, living by the letter of the
law corrupted by greed and RULE BY "Retributive Justice")
* NT which is about renewal, restoration living by LOVE of
Truth, Justice and Peace to RESTORE human relations and society

You can SEE when people take one side of JUSTICE over another.
That is WHY "Jesus" is warned as bringing a TWO EDGED SWORD
that "divides people against each other" (this division shows when
you compare people taking the Restorative approach to Justice
being opposed by people taking the Retributive approach instead)

You have your choice of
* Retributive Justice where you get the judgment you give
* Restorative Justice where you forgive others for you to be forgiven

So THIS explains why some people teach
* God and Jesus as JUDGING and CONDEMNING by Authority of law
* others teach God as LOVE and Jesus as granting Justice with MERCY and CHARITY

alang1216 does this make sense that we have people
and groups taking BOTH these approaches to "Justice"

And WHICH do you believe makes more sense if Jesus means
SALVATION and bringing true Justice and Peace to SAVE HUMANITY.
Which do you find brings REDEMPTION HEALING and RESTORATION
* Look up Restorative Justice to see the results it has had on people
* For Retributive Justice look at wars, bullying in the media and politics,
backbiting and all manner of negative judgement blame and punishment

What makes more sense that Jesus would represent?
Restorative Justice? that brings renewal of relations and healing to humanity?
or
Retributive Justice that brings destruction and more war?

If you can understand why Christ Jesus would mean RESTORATIVE JUSTICE
then you can see what it means for all humanity needing to take
THIS path to restore justice and peace in order to establish
"peace on earth" or the "Kingdom of God".

Does this make more sense?

You make perfect sense. Unfortunately I see very little evidence that the followers of Jesus have made this world a better place because of what Jesus said and did.

The real followers have. They listen to Jesus over men. That is FEW unfortunately. Jesus started one single religion. Its the only religion he is with--Not 34,000 different ones. That is caused by confusion of believing men and their errors over Jesus.

Dear kjw47
Given that Jesus is Divine Authority of Justice over ALL other dominions (Colossians 1:16),
how can we best communicate and develop lawful cooperation among the diverse tribes?
1. First there are people under CHRISTIAN laws and Bible
that need to get on the same page
2. Secondly there are SECULAR GENTILES under NATURAL LAWS
who may respond more to SCIENCE and explanations using SECULAR TERMS
3. Third there are political groups and nations that understand
CIVIL and Constitutional laws and traditions of their own cultures and countries.

Doesn't it make sense to talk to people "as Jesus did" using
the PARABLES and language that relate TO THOSE PEOPLE?

With fishermen and farmers Jesus did not cite scriptural laws
as he did with the learned Pharisees who live by that language.

With Muslims, wouldn't we address them using their own Muslim standards and principles?

With Atheists who believe in science wouldn't we use the language of experience and
scientific method where cause and effect, before and after, can be compared to see
the different that approaches have and their relative effects, so they can choose by REASON?

With secular gentiles under Natural Laws, Civil and Constitutional laws
wouldn't it make more sense to show the impact that Christ Jesus teachings
have on social and political relations, so they can see and learn the difference?

There used to be time to beat around the bush--time grows very short. I am direct and to the point.

 

[kjw47]

Dear alang1216
By definition there is only one "GOD" if God means the supreme Almighty/Absolute.
What is diverse are the systems of laws and religions which are like LANGUAGES for the laws.
(so the ABSOLUTE laws that are self-existent are the SAME/UNIVERSAL for all humanity but the EXPRESSIONS of these laws are "RELATIVE" and differ by Culture, Tribe, and Nation for those audiences that develops their own to share equal ownership of the same body of laws)

The reason there are so many is to ORGANIZE humanity by TRIBES.
This is like having 50 states in one UNION, so each State can govern its own people with LOCAL SOVEREIGNTY.

All 50 states are still under one NATIONAL law and govt.
But that's TOO MANY people to govern effectively under one centralized system.

So given the complex needs, relations and institutions necessary for people socially,
we diversify and LOCALIZE so people can govern themselves DEMOCRATICALLY to REPRESENT themselves EQUALLY.

If all the birds had to live in a tree with just
ONE HUGE TRUNK, there would be no place for all the birds to build their own nests.

So the TRUNK divides into BRANCHES and the Branches subdivide
to hold more leaves and hold more nests for all the birds.

This is like the FAMILY of HUMANITY that will have different tribes
so people can organize under the group and leadership that represents THEM.

Not really buying this either. Doesn't Jesus claim that the way to the father is through him? If that is true, what of people of other religions, are they out of luck or was John misquoting Jesus? IOW, does everyone, regardless of their religion have an equal shot at heaven? If they do, what is the purpose of religions, if not, the majority of people are doomed.

Yes alang1216
What this means is the way of RESTORATIVE JUSTICE (which Christ Jesus represents)
is what saves Humanity from war, greed, suffering, ills abuse and other destruction we perpetuate ourselves.

Instead of RETRIBUTIVE JUSTICE (which is ANTICHRIST)

Compare in general the
* OT which is full of war and genocide (antichrist,
judgement and punishment, living by the letter of the
law corrupted by greed and RULE BY "Retributive Justice")
* NT which is about renewal, restoration living by LOVE of
Truth, Justice and Peace to RESTORE human relations and society

You can SEE when people take one side of JUSTICE over another.
That is WHY "Jesus" is warned as bringing a TWO EDGED SWORD
that "divides people against each other" (this division shows when
you compare people taking the Restorative approach to Justice
being opposed by people taking the Retributive approach instead)

You have your choice of
* Retributive Justice where you get the judgment you give
* Restorative Justice where you forgive others for you to be forgiven

So THIS explains why some people teach
* God and Jesus as JUDGING and CONDEMNING by Authority of law
* others teach God as LOVE and Jesus as granting Justice with MERCY and CHARITY

alang1216 does this make sense that we have people
and groups taking BOTH these approaches to "Justice"

And WHICH do you believe makes more sense if Jesus means
SALVATION and bringing true Justice and Peace to SAVE HUMANITY.
Which do you find brings REDEMPTION HEALING and RESTORATION
* Look up Restorative Justice to see the results it has had on people
* For Retributive Justice look at wars, bullying in the media and politics,
backbiting and all manner of negative judgement blame and punishment

What makes more sense that Jesus would represent?
Restorative Justice? that brings renewal of relations and healing to humanity?
or
Retributive Justice that brings destruction and more war?

If you can understand why Christ Jesus would mean RESTORATIVE JUSTICE
then you can see what it means for all humanity needing to take
THIS path to restore justice and peace in order to establish
"peace on earth" or the "Kingdom of God".

Does this make more sense?

You make perfect sense. Unfortunately I see very little evidence that the followers of Jesus have made this world a better place because of what Jesus said and did.

The real followers have. They listen to Jesus over men. That is FEW unfortunately. Jesus started one single religion. Its the only religion he is with--Not 34,000 different ones. That is caused by confusion of believing men and their errors over Jesus.

Sounds like a 'no true scotsman' fallacy.

In my understanding, Jesus didn't start any religions, he was born a Jew and died a Jew, his followers started Christianity. And there were ALWAYS multiple Christian religions. IMHO

Acts 24:5-- a single religion Jesus started--The rest claiming to be Christian are in reality a part of this-2Thess 2:3--the great apostasy. They became a house divided-they will not stand-Mark 3:24-26

 

[kjw47]

Not really buying this either. Doesn't Jesus claim that the way to the father is through him? If that is true, what of people of other religions, are they out of luck or was John misquoting Jesus? IOW, does everyone, regardless of their religion have an equal shot at heaven? If they do, what is the purpose of religions, if not, the majority of people are doomed.

Yes alang1216
What this means is the way of RESTORATIVE JUSTICE (which Christ Jesus represents)
is what saves Humanity from war, greed, suffering, ills abuse and other destruction we perpetuate ourselves.

Instead of RETRIBUTIVE JUSTICE (which is ANTICHRIST)

Compare in general the
* OT which is full of war and genocide (antichrist,
judgement and punishment, living by the letter of the
law corrupted by greed and RULE BY "Retributive Justice")
* NT which is about renewal, restoration living by LOVE of
Truth, Justice and Peace to RESTORE human relations and society

You can SEE when people take one side of JUSTICE over another.
That is WHY "Jesus" is warned as bringing a TWO EDGED SWORD
that "divides people against each other" (this division shows when
you compare people taking the Restorative approach to Justice
being opposed by people taking the Retributive approach instead)

You have your choice of
* Retributive Justice where you get the judgment you give
* Restorative Justice where you forgive others for you to be forgiven

So THIS explains why some people teach
* God and Jesus as JUDGING and CONDEMNING by Authority of law
* others teach God as LOVE and Jesus as granting Justice with MERCY and CHARITY

alang1216 does this make sense that we have people
and groups taking BOTH these approaches to "Justice"

And WHICH do you believe makes more sense if Jesus means
SALVATION and bringing true Justice and Peace to SAVE HUMANITY.
Which do you find brings REDEMPTION HEALING and RESTORATION
* Look up Restorative Justice to see the results it has had on people
* For Retributive Justice look at wars, bullying in the media and politics,
backbiting and all manner of negative judgement blame and punishment

What makes more sense that Jesus would represent?
Restorative Justice? that brings renewal of relations and healing to humanity?
or
Retributive Justice that brings destruction and more war?

If you can understand why Christ Jesus would mean RESTORATIVE JUSTICE
then you can see what it means for all humanity needing to take
THIS path to restore justice and peace in order to establish
"peace on earth" or the "Kingdom of God".

Does this make more sense?

You make perfect sense. Unfortunately I see very little evidence that the followers of Jesus have made this world a better place because of what Jesus said and did.

The real followers have. They listen to Jesus over men. That is FEW unfortunately. Jesus started one single religion. Its the only religion he is with--Not 34,000 different ones. That is caused by confusion of believing men and their errors over Jesus.

Sounds like a 'no true scotsman' fallacy.

In my understanding, Jesus didn't start any religions, he was born a Jew and died a Jew, his followers started Christianity. And there were ALWAYS multiple Christian religions. IMHO

And rose a Jew.

Tell me again what multiple sects of Christianity means? Arguing there can be no God because everyone doesn’t agree on who God is is illogical AF.

The Jewish religion was cut off of being Gods chosen, the precise moment Jesus died( the renting of the banner in two signified that--as well Matthew 23:37-39--They are cut off. Jesus started a new religion-Acts 24:5--just 1 single religion.

 

[kjw47]

Yes alang1216
What this means is the way of RESTORATIVE JUSTICE (which Christ Jesus represents)
is what saves Humanity from war, greed, suffering, ills abuse and other destruction we perpetuate ourselves.

Instead of RETRIBUTIVE JUSTICE (which is ANTICHRIST)

Compare in general the
* OT which is full of war and genocide (antichrist,
judgement and punishment, living by the letter of the
law corrupted by greed and RULE BY "Retributive Justice")
* NT which is about renewal, restoration living by LOVE of
Truth, Justice and Peace to RESTORE human relations and society

You can SEE when people take one side of JUSTICE over another.
That is WHY "Jesus" is warned as bringing a TWO EDGED SWORD
that "divides people against each other" (this division shows when
you compare people taking the Restorative approach to Justice
being opposed by people taking the Retributive approach instead)

You have your choice of
* Retributive Justice where you get the judgment you give
* Restorative Justice where you forgive others for you to be forgiven

So THIS explains why some people teach
* God and Jesus as JUDGING and CONDEMNING by Authority of law
* others teach God as LOVE and Jesus as granting Justice with MERCY and CHARITY

alang1216 does this make sense that we have people
and groups taking BOTH these approaches to "Justice"

And WHICH do you believe makes more sense if Jesus means
SALVATION and bringing true Justice and Peace to SAVE HUMANITY.
Which do you find brings REDEMPTION HEALING and RESTORATION
* Look up Restorative Justice to see the results it has had on people
* For Retributive Justice look at wars, bullying in the media and politics,
backbiting and all manner of negative judgement blame and punishment

What makes more sense that Jesus would represent?
Restorative Justice? that brings renewal of relations and healing to humanity?
or
Retributive Justice that brings destruction and more war?

If you can understand why Christ Jesus would mean RESTORATIVE JUSTICE
then you can see what it means for all humanity needing to take
THIS path to restore justice and peace in order to establish
"peace on earth" or the "Kingdom of God".

Does this make more sense?

You make perfect sense. Unfortunately I see very little evidence that the followers of Jesus have made this world a better place because of what Jesus said and did.

The real followers have. They listen to Jesus over men. That is FEW unfortunately. Jesus started one single religion. Its the only religion he is with--Not 34,000 different ones. That is caused by confusion of believing men and their errors over Jesus.

Sounds like a 'no true scotsman' fallacy.

In my understanding, Jesus didn't start any religions, he was born a Jew and died a Jew, his followers started Christianity. And there were ALWAYS multiple Christian religions. IMHO

And rose a Jew.

Tell me again what multiple sects of Christianity means? Arguing there can be no God because everyone doesn’t agree on who God is is illogical AF.

If god is provable, which can't everyone agree on it?

99% are in satans illusion, he poses as every other god--there is but one true living God-YHVH(Jehovah) Few know him-John 15:20-21

 

[Taz]

You make perfect sense. Unfortunately I see very little evidence that the followers of Jesus have made this world a better place because of what Jesus said and did.

The real followers have. They listen to Jesus over men. That is FEW unfortunately. Jesus started one single religion. Its the only religion he is with--Not 34,000 different ones. That is caused by confusion of believing men and their errors over Jesus.

Sounds like a 'no true scotsman' fallacy.

In my understanding, Jesus didn't start any religions, he was born a Jew and died a Jew, his followers started Christianity. And there were ALWAYS multiple Christian religions. IMHO

And rose a Jew.

Tell me again what multiple sects of Christianity means? Arguing there can be no God because everyone doesn’t agree on who God is is illogical AF.

If god is provable, which can't everyone agree on it?

99% are in satans illusion, he poses as every other god--there is but one true living God-YHVH(Jehovah) Few know him-John 15:20-21

So why did god make satan?

 

[alang1216]

In my understanding, Jesus didn't start any religions, he was born a Jew and died a Jew, his followers started Christianity. And there were ALWAYS multiple Christian religions. IMHO

Acts 24:5-- a single religion Jesus started--The rest claiming to be Christian are in reality a part of this-2Thess 2:3--the great apostasy. They became a house divided-they will not stand-Mark 3:24-26

Not buying it.

Paul was roaming the Roman world trying to keep his churches in line because others were traveling with different theologies. The main conflict being, did one have convert to Judaism before becoming a Christian. Some said yes and that was the Jerusalem faction. Others, like Paul, believed you didn't and circumcision was unnecessary. Paul's faction won by default when the Romans burned Jerusalem. If Paul had lost, Christianity today would be a tiny sect in a minor religion. Paul opened up the possibility of mass conversions of gentiles.

Pagan Rome was as much responsible for Christianity as anyone or anything.

 

[alang1216]

The Jewish religion was cut off of being Gods chosen, the precise moment Jesus died( the renting of the banner in two signified that--as well Matthew 23:37-39--They are cut off. Jesus started a new religion-Acts 24:5--just 1 single religion.

As the Gnostics would say, history is written by the victors.